Post: #51

(12-10-2016 10:08 AM)Dusty Wrote:  I'd love to see President Trump attach the title "Fake News" to the MSM to further discredit them. Like his nicknames ("Crooked Hilary").

No longer would he refer to them simply as "CNN" it would always be "Fake News CNN."

Post: #52

(12-10-2016 09:22 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  I have something to offer the discussion.

In May I wrote an article for Return of Kings about the CIWA (Countering Information Warfare Act) and the motivations behind it.

http://www.returnofkings.com/87688/the-s...censorship

Nothing objectionable about your article, although using "censorship" in the title is misleading. You note the existence of Russian and Chinese propaganda, false smears of the USA in the Muslim world by Russia, Russian troll farms, the threat of Chinese influence, the extent of Chinese spying and subversion. I remember when the Soviets were pushing the idea that HIV/AIDS was a US biowar program back in the 80s.

But then at the end you suggest that a small program in State targeted to foreign audiences is going to have an effect on First Amendment activities.

(12-10-2016 09:22 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  Although the text of the statute inserts the requisite "ass-covering" phrases like "outside the United States" and the like, in reality, all of us know better. In 2016 the difference between "domestic" and "foreign" news is thin indeed. Let's not play semantic games. This is an attempt to steer the narrative in the electronic battlefield.

Do we "know better?" Legal texts matter in the US Government, at least in the unclassified world. Taking the law in tandem with other federal laws, like the federal acquisition regulations and FOIA, it's impossible for this Center to be handing out money to US journalists. If the program is directed at monitoring foreign media, propaganda, and foreign trolls, so what? If the program spreads a little money to friendly foreign media and NGOs, so what? When the Russians and Chinese are using their resources, why shouldn't the USA? As I said, this looks like the U.S. Information Agency updated for the digital age. Good.

While it's true that stories can travel from foreign to domestic media, the reality of different languages is a buffer. State Department funding of media in Russian, Chinese, Bulgarian, or Thai, potential foreign target audiences is going to have limited return to English language media.

(12-10-2016 09:22 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  Textual analysis is one thing. But there is a bigger principle: power. The US is trying to take steps to counter what it sees as Chinese and Russian "disinformation." Fine. Information warfare has been going on for centuries. CIA black ops has been funding fake stories from journalists for a long, long time.

The real issue, as I tried to point out in my article, is this: who is going to decide what is "disinformation."?

Why shouldn't the US be continually refining its information operations? We are in a new media world now, USG has to adapt.

Somebody's got to call bullshit out. I did it for awhile, was spreading around money to "new independent media" in Iraq. Called my beneficiaries in occasionally and chewed them out for spreading bullshit from Al Arabiya, Al Jazeera, street rumors and insurgent propaganda, objectively false shit. This is the main problem for US public diplomacy and strategic communications outside the US., really outrageous bullshit.

There are people in State Public Diplomacy, military strategic communications/ information dominance, obviously CIA/DIA who have done this for years, not particularly new to them to call bullshit on things. They don't care about Zero Hedge or InfoWars. They might care about the Russian troll army or covert stuff pushing bullshit into the USA.

The interesting question for me, is who came up with the bullshit put out about this law? Is it just trolling or more insidious?

So a bill is passed provided for an office to counter Russian and Chinese propaganda. The office will be in the State Department, which is charged with the foreign relations of the USA, but will coordinate with the military and intelligence agencies. The bill says foreign audiences are the target.

There is a very modest grant program, only $10 million a year. The grants are in line with what DOS and USAID already do for foreign journalists and NGOs. Training for investigative journalists, direct support to newspapers, radio, been there, done that.

The bill does not say anything about censorship, putting people in jail, shutting down media.

To me, it may be a waste of money, but it might have some effect if the foreign grantees are effective at getting a counter-narrative out.

The Russians and Chinese would not approve of this bill, right? Who would want to mischaracterize the bill, mobilize opposition against it, kill it?

You start out this thread with the title: Alert: The US Government will begin Censorship of 'Fake News' and Alt-Media

Where the hell did the OP get that from? The only link in the OP was to Sen. Portman's press release. One link, then a blatantly false description of the law.

Then you have Cernovich, ranting about how people will be imprisoned, fined, there will be censorship, it will "take out free speech in America," "label all independent media as Russian propaganda," "fine, outlaw, make you a criminal" if you're independent media. Total bullshit.

Now you have #NoPortmanMurphy trending, anonymous twitterers repeating the same bullshit hysteria. Who, why?

Very strange. Res ipsa loquitur.

Post: #53

Total virality now. Probably gonna be on drudge next.

Senate Quietly Passes The "Countering Disinformation And Propaganda Act"

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-10...aganda-act

Quote:While we wait to see if and when the Senate will pass (and president will sign) Bill "H.R. 6393, Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2017", which was passed by the House at the end of November with an overwhelming majority and which seeks to crack down on websites suspected of conducting Russian propaganda and calling for the US government to "counter active measures by Russia to exert covert influence … carried out in coordination with, or at the behest of, political leaders or the security services of the Russian Federation and the role of the Russian Federation has been hidden or not acknowledged publicly,” another, perhaps even more dangerous and limiting to civil rights and freedom of speech bill passed on December 8.

Recall that as we reported in early June, "a bill to implement the U.S.’ very own de facto Ministry of Truth has been quietly introduced in Congress. As with any legislation attempting to dodge the public spotlight the Countering Foreign Propaganda and Disinformation Act of 2016 marks a further curtailment of press freedom and another avenue to stultify avenues of accurate information. Introduced by Congressmen Adam Kinzinger and Ted Lieu, H.R. 5181 seeks a “whole-government approach without the bureaucratic restrictions” to counter “foreign disinformation and manipulation,” which they believe threaten the world’s “security and stability.”

I agree with you Sp5 that this bill is being interpreted as more than subsidization. People keep saying it will start a crackdown on free speech, but it's not, it's a subsidy and there is a difference. That said, why the fuck should taxpayers fund their own propaganda? It's not just for foreign use. If it was, I wouldn't have sent it to MikeCF.

But this meme has a life of it's own now, and it started right here on this forum. Don't doubt this place... RooshVForum is very powerful. Unfortunately, the internet is like a telephone game, and messages get distorted as they move from actor to actor. I know the original thread title was bad, and the thread title is still bad, but that's why my original tweet started with just a subsidy claim. Now it's morphed into a "crackdown on free speech," which is not strictly true, but it's better that people learn of the bill through sensationalism than not to learn about it at all. Such are the flaws of democracy.

Post: #54

(12-11-2016 09:28 AM)Samseau Wrote:  Total virality now. Probably gonna be on drudge next.

Senate Quietly Passes The "Countering Disinformation And Propaganda Act"

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-10...aganda-act

Quote:While we wait to see if and when the Senate will pass (and president will sign) Bill "H.R. 6393, Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2017", which was passed by the House at the end of November with an overwhelming majority and which seeks to crack down on websites suspected of conducting Russian propaganda and calling for the US government to "counter active measures by Russia to exert covert influence … carried out in coordination with, or at the behest of, political leaders or the security services of the Russian Federation and the role of the Russian Federation has been hidden or not acknowledged publicly,” another, perhaps even more dangerous and limiting to civil rights and freedom of speech bill passed on December 8.

Recall that as we reported in early June, "a bill to implement the U.S.’ very own de facto Ministry of Truth has been quietly introduced in Congress. As with any legislation attempting to dodge the public spotlight the Countering Foreign Propaganda and Disinformation Act of 2016 marks a further curtailment of press freedom and another avenue to stultify avenues of accurate information. Introduced by Congressmen Adam Kinzinger and Ted Lieu, H.R. 5181 seeks a “whole-government approach without the bureaucratic restrictions” to counter “foreign disinformation and manipulation,” which they believe threaten the world’s “security and stability.”

I agree with you Sp5 that this bill is being interpreted as more than subsidization. People keep saying it will start a crackdown on free speech, but it's not, it's a subsidy and there is a difference. That said, why the fuck should taxpayers fund their own propaganda? It's not just for foreign use. If it was, I wouldn't have sent it to MikeCF.

But this meme has a life of it's own now, and it started right here on this forum. Don't doubt this place... RooshVForum is very powerful. Unfortunately, the internet is like a telephone game, and messages get distorted as they move from actor to actor. I know the original thread title was bad, and the thread title is still bad, but that's why my original tweet started with just a subsidy claim. Now it's morphed into a "crackdown on free speech," which is not strictly true, but it's better that people learn of the bill through sensationalism than not to learn about it at all. Such are the flaws of democracy.

I still have questions to the OP. Where did the "US Government will begin Censorship of 'Fake News' and Alt-Media" come from? Who gave you that idea?

Yes, it all unfolded the way the Russians and Chinese would have wanted it to.

Now idiots are calling their members of Congress to stop the bill, because it's "1984! OMG OMG!"

Mission accomplished!

Post: #55

(12-10-2016 08:16 PM)Sp5 Wrote:  Sorry for bringing the truth to spoil your outrage and hysteria.

No no NOOOOOO I was having the most divine hissy fit.
Those liberal reporters eat PIZZA. And we all know what pizza is connected to.

"trouble... that starts with "T", and that rhymes with "P" and that stands for POOL!"

Post: #56

Quote:Where did the "US Government will begin Censorship of 'Fake News' and Alt-Media" come from? Who gave you that idea?

Yes, it all unfolded the way the Russians and Chinese would have wanted it to.

This comment nicely illustrates why people are so fed up with this and related bills and political statements. Not everything in this world is Russia's fault. Now a bunch of people overreacting is the work of KGB. It can't possibly be a natural tendency to exaggerate, no it has to be caused by Putin's nefarious agents!

Again, this bill is especially hypocritical in the light of how US media corporations and NGOs control the public opinion of entire countries. Completely shameless.

P.S. I found a Russian spy hiding in my blocked shower drain this morning!

Post: #57

How come they are not concerned with the actual deception and corruption inside the emails/leaks, and are instead focusing on the act of it all being leaked in itself?

Don't shoot the messenger, kind of seems apt. Don't concern yourself with who is bringing the message, but instead the message itself.

Post: #58

Has passed the House: http://wearechange.org/us-lawmakers-move...ganda-web/

Guaranteed Obama signs it.

Quote:Under “Title V—Matters relating to foreign countries,” the bill seeks to “counter active measures by Russia to exert covert influence … carried out in coordination with, or at the behest of, political leaders or the security services of the Russian Federation and the role of the Russian Federation has been hidden or not acknowledged publicly.”
It lists media manipulation as:

Establishment or funding of a front group.
Covert broadcasting.
Media manipulation.
Disinformation and forgeries.
Funding agents of influence.
Incitement and offensive counterintelligence.
Assassinations.
Terrorist acts.

“It is easy to see how this law, if passed by the Senate and signed by the president, could be used to target, threaten, or eliminate so-called ‘fake news’ websites, a list which has been used to arbitrarily define any website, or blog, that does not share the mainstream media’s proclivity to serve as the Public Relations arm of a given administration,” Global Research reported.

The frightening attack on speech and independent media was opposed by only 30 members of the House, including Tulsi Gabbard, Thomas Massie, and Justin Amash — who stated that he fought against it.

Post: #59

^ I can only hope Trump uses this legislation to gut Soros like a fish.

Keep in mind when they drafted this they thought they were going to have a lock on the Presidency literally forever.

Post: #60

(12-09-2016 11:51 PM)Slim Shady Wrote:  Time for Tucker Carlson to take over Megyn Kelly's time slot.

Tucker Carlson missed an opportunity that we should all seize.

Low-T Liberal did an excellent job of describing the problem, "Facebook's current algorithm promotes news stories solely by how many times they're shared, which allows Fake News stories to spread." Low-T Liberal also dodged Tucker Carlson's fears of Censorship by stating, "Facebook is a private company."

The irrefutable counter-argument is that Facebook, as a private company, has neither the responsibility, skill, nor moral mandate to differentiate Real News from Fake News . People don't use Facebook to get Real News, Fake News, nor Any News; they use it to post pictures of themselves, communicate with their friends, and be entertained.

Moreover, the problem that Low-T Liberal describes can be 100% solved with a simple legal disclaimer: "Facebook is a private company that lacks the skill to differentiate between Real News and Fake News. We support our customers' right to share any story for any reason - whether because they think the story is true, or whether they think it's amusing or entertaining. Asking us to determine Real News looks asking us to prefer one political philosophy over another, which we will refuse to do by eternally remaining neutral. There are many websites that differentiate between Real News and Fake News, and we encourage all customers to use those cites to verify any news story they read on Facebook."

Post: #61

Obama signed the bill into law. Let the propaganda subsidies begin

Post: #62

(12-28-2016 04:27 PM)Samseau Wrote:  Obama signed the bill into law. Let the propaganda subsidies begin

This bill, and others like it, are a stark reminder of the need for men to organize their own tribes like we have here on RVF, as well as meeting good men in person and forming a counter-offensive. The main platforms of media are all compromised, but in insurgent warfare you don't fight a full frontal assault. We must continue to fight using unconventional methods.

Post: #63

(12-09-2016 04:21 PM)Samseau Wrote:  It's just a way for the old media to keep getting money now that their viewership is in the toilet. Ad dollars is not enough to keep them running, so now the taxpayer gets to fund them. Obviously corrupt elites have a vested interested in preserving their mouthpieces.

We've had the BBC for years doing just that. As well as other, 'independent' outlets who claim to be completely outside of government/taxpayer funding...until you read the small print. Channel 4, for UK readers.