Post: #26

Its getting to the point of instead of starting threads, we should just PM WIA then post the answers on RVF... Makes me feel like a bitch with no game and an existential cris

Post: #27

(11-25-2016 03:58 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  Its getting to the point of instead of starting threads, we should just PM WIA then post the answers on RVF... Makes me feel like a bitch with no game and an existential cris

LMAO word brotha. I saw that shit and thought "WIA responded how did I miss that shit?!"

Post: #28

You don't see WIA here anymore cause there is too much fucking politics even in game section. It's annoying and off putting. Congratulations, that's how you get rid of competent members.

It feels like 'we're on some other shit' simply because we talk actual game here, not some pseudo manosphere imitation of it. We share practical stuff, sometimes very technical, that you can use right away to raise your chances. That's why you see the difference. We don't talk current state of game or women or whatever. It's not our thing. Threads get thrashed with that shit regularly. And half the time the final conclusion is to "next her". It's a waste of time.

It's annoying to me as well but I don't care. I talk PURE GAME here and nothing else. I just post what I know and ignore irrelevant stuff.

Post: #29

(11-25-2016 06:43 AM)XXL Wrote:  You don't see WIA here anymore cause there is too much fucking politics even in game section. It's annoying and off putting. Congratulations, that's how you get rid of competent members.

It feels like 'we're on some other shit' simply because we talk actual game here, not some pseudo manosphere imitation of it. We share practical stuff, sometimes very technical, that you can use right away to raise your chances. That's why you see the difference. We don't talk current state of game or women or whatever. It's not our thing. Threads get thrashed with that shit regularly. And half the time the final conclusion is to "next her". It's a waste of time.

It's annoying to me as well but I don't care. I talk PURE GAME here and nothing else. I just post what I know and ignore irrelevant stuff.

Make RVF great again !

It's sad to see experienced and full of knowledge people refraining to post because of members who just want to stir shit up.

Post: #30

Dude you're really over thinking this. If you're worried about some nice guy swooping your girl, just add a little bit more comfort into your game.

Make her dinner, bang her and let her stay over at your place, take her on a small overnight trip somewhere, go on a nice date, talk about sappy feelings, or just listen to her talk.

You can't be all adventure all of the time and expect her to stay around.

Post: #31

It has to be said.....it should be the safe guy asking the question Andy not you.

In fact if you are asking the question you probably aren't as much of the bad boy as you think. A more accurately "bad boy" mentality is abundance: there's only so many seats at the concert and if she isn't willing to pay her dues then somebody else will be more than happy to pay for a front row seat.

Post: #32

Gotta run some reverse-psychology Riker game on this simp:

Post: #33

(11-25-2016 08:47 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Dude you're really over thinking this. If you're worried about some nice guy swooping your girl, just add a little bit more comfort into your game.

Make her dinner, bang her and let her stay over at your place, take her on a small overnight trip somewhere, go on a nice date, talk about sappy feelings, or just listen to her talk.

You can't be all adventure all of the time and expect her to stay around.

If it was that easy I'd not make a thread about it, duh. There is more to game than just be nice be cool be bad be this be that etc. But thanks for "advice"

Post: #34

(11-26-2016 10:08 AM)Easy_C Wrote:  It has to be said.....it should be the safe guy asking the question Andy not you.

In fact if you are asking the question you probably aren't as much of the bad boy as you think. A more accurately "bad boy" mentality is abundance: there's only so many seats at the concert and if she isn't willing to pay her dues then somebody else will be more than happy to pay for a front row seat.

First of all, no, Andy the nice, would not ask such question cause he doesn't even know he can be better at getting girls. It's beyond his reality.

Second of all, asking a question about one or few other girls doesn't change my mentality or put me off track. If anything, I'm way more self aware and meticulous motherfucker than those idiotic "bad boys" you're comparing me to who act up and have no fucking idea what they do.

Your last last sentence only tells me that it's your mentality that holds you back as it implies that any girl who doesn't easily complies with you is lost cause so you bail on her thinking you're nexting her while in fact it's her nexting you.

The whole “I’m gonna give her one chance and if she doesn’t jump on my cock, fuck it I’ll go get more girls” thing is just an ego-protecting way of saying “I don’t know how to turn this around, so I’m going to find an easier (and probably less attractive) girl”. You cannot next a girl you haven't slept with.

Shots fired. Now what?

Post: #35

I feel there's a misunderstanding between guys like XXL and WIA, and probably other guys who think like them, and more "means to an end" type gamers.

The latter is all about nexting, and simple rules of thumb that you don't have to worry about in detail(like never apologise, never buy drinks, don't be beta, don't white knight etc). It's in a similar vein of self improvement of dieting and lifting weights, and dressing better, many guys don't actually like doing that all that much but they realise it's necessary to be a well rounded person. When they see a post like this in the OP they assume he's "overthinking" it because of oneitis or what have you.

The former actually likes game/pickup because it's a beautiful and amazing thing in itself. In a sense, they can even like game more than they like fucking the girls they are with. This can be taken to an extreme with autistic guys like RSD and perhaps Mystery, I believe XXL and WIA are "cooler" than them though. There's so much to learn in game that can only be realised if you break things down in detail like this and obsess about what may seem like irrelevant details.

In this case, it's not that XXL wants any particular girl with a beta boyfriend. It's that he recognises that it's a common situation that happens and he wants to discuss what people do in it. In fact, it may not even be the situation that's important. It's the thought process about how you would game in situations like those described. Once you have the thought process, then it's easier to extrapolate it into other situations. But it's very helpful to break things down.

Post: #36

I've swooped girls in this situation before. My follow-up was poor, but I pulled off the initial bang.

Chances are, the other guy is not going to escalate like me. I escalate hard. I also overqualified the other guys explicitly and held back on gifts or expensive dinners. I even congratulated the girl on getting there other guys to take them out for food and not getting the bang. It makes the girl have a shared secret with you, which is powerful. She feels like an insider with inside jokes that only you and her can share.

Post: #37

(11-26-2016 04:26 PM)The Catalyst Wrote:  I feel there's a misunderstanding between guys like XXL and WIA, and probably other guys who think like them, and more "means to an end" type gamers.

The latter is all about nexting, and simple rules of thumb that you don't have to worry about in detail(like never apologise, never buy drinks, don't be beta, don't white knight etc). It's in a similar vein of self improvement of dieting and lifting weights, and dressing better, many guys don't actually like doing that all that much but they realise it's necessary to be a well rounded person. When they see a post like this in the OP they assume he's "overthinking" it because of oneitis or what have you.

The former actually likes game/pickup because it's a beautiful and amazing thing in itself. In a sense, they can even like game more than they like fucking the girls they are with. This can be taken to an extreme with autistic guys like RSD and perhaps Mystery, I believe XXL and WIA are "cooler" than them though. There's so much to learn in game that can only be realised if you break things down in detail like this and obsess about what may seem like irrelevant details.

You're right. And you know what? Guys like me, WIA, etc, we don't mind to read posts of "means to an end" type gamers who follow "simple rules of thumb". We like to read about different point of views, we don't judge the accuracy of them [we could], it's fine as long as they stay in their place and don't mess with us, throwing silly jabs like they know what they're talking about.

(11-26-2016 04:26 PM)The Catalyst Wrote:  In this case, it's not that XXL wants any particular girl with a beta boyfriend. It's that he recognises that it's a common situation that happens and he wants to discuss what people do in it. In fact, it may not even be the situation that's important. It's the thought process about how you would game in situations like those described. Once you have the thought process, then it's easier to extrapolate it into other situations. But it's very helpful to break things down.

Yeah exactly. To me this was just another interesting situation which happened few times so I recognized the pattern and shared it here. The girls that this thread is about could disappear today and I'd feel no real difference. This is all about breaking down the cause and effect relationship and solving it.

Post: #38

Do you have any momentum with her? If so, it's really about out seducing the other guy. Being more exciting, interesting, better stories, and more importantly being able to put it down in bed ie) Elevate Status. Without telegraphing it. Attracting her by getting her attention, but not actively pursuing has worked for me.
My style is the "Dandy"

The safe bet bf is just that the safe bet. Competing head to head with a "beta" is stupid because he's gonna win most of the time.
In short, you can't beat a beta at his own game. Nor would I want to win his game.*

I wouldn't just Next her (if you have momentum), but developing oneitis is not good either. Keeping tabs has worked for me. The random bump in has worked for me. I've had some wins and some (self-inflicted) losses . But I have taken girls away from Mr. Safe Bet by the "my experiences" I gave above... It's all about momentum and rapport with me.

I don't believe in silver bullet advice. But most girls get bored of the safe bet hence the extremely High divorce rate.

Post: #39

Throw out bait about your history, personality, beliefs... whatever that you think based on her personality she would love to see changed about you.

Once you find out what it is she most wants to change about you (most likely having the personality trait of being too uncaring, selfish, or dickish - though sometimes other bigger issues like heavy drug use, breaking the law, being unemployed, being a starving artist, religion, politics, family or whatever else may be it), start a small fight with her about it. Make up though afterwards. Leave it in a place where it is still a testy subject though.

You want to embroil her in a long simmering fight (2-3 months) where there is a two step forward one step back approach to her thinking she is fighting hard to change that one thing about you. In this period you need to start a few more fights that escalate toward a redline because you act like she went too far by being unrelenting about changing, then calm down.

By end of month three you need to do a memorable gesture that shows her she just started genuinely to pierce the first layer of iron around your player core.

Get her to invest.

Now that is just too much firepower on her feelings for plain guy to compete with.

The Changed Badboy Through Much Blood, Sweat, & Tears trumps either All Badboy or Stable Beta4Life cards.

That is women's ultimate trophy. People value most that which is rare & that they worked hardest for.

-----

Now that was going for the homerun.

I am thinking this question conceptually means "what can I do past my normal game and ignoring other guy exists to help succeed".

The easier route is to get her to mention this guy indirectly probably by talking about the social circle you all run in. You can probably guess what traits she may not like about him. Ask her some open ended questions that may not put him in bad light on paper, as she says the words about him or his actions though it will affect him in a bad light. If you can get her to laugh at him and start seeing him as a chump in a lighthearted way all the better.

Lame, unimaginative, predictable. Those are the slogan you want attached to this guy when he gets mentioned. You may mentioned him only if it is a quick one liner that is guaranteed to make her laugh at him. On the other side be expressing a personality that is open, willing to explore, dreaming... get her out of her lame safe space.

As a second jab, may be a little bit more gentlemanly in opening the car door, door to the bar, or take a little more time setting up your place when she comes over (nice take out food set up, champagne etc.). Stepping up the investment a small ratchet. Still gotta keep that edge though that keeps her guessing.

Post: #40

(11-27-2016 09:18 PM)Travesty Wrote:  The easier route is to get her to mention this guy indirectly probably by talking about the social circle you all run in. You can probably guess what traits she may not like about him. Ask her some open ended questions that may not put him in bad light on paper, as she says the words about him or his actions though it will affect him in a bad light. If you can get her to laugh at him and start seeing him as a chump in a lighthearted way all the better.

As a second jab, may be a little bit more gentlemanly in opening the car door, door to the bar, or take a little more time setting up your place when she comes over (nice take out food set up, champagne etc.). Stepping up the investment a small ratchet. Still gotta keep that edge though that keeps her guessing.

In short, being what he is not and let his own shortcomings hang himself will win the day.

Post: #41

^ After reading WIA I have second thoughts on what I wrote, I will leave it though because I still believe it is an extremely viable way.

He is saying to oversell the good qualities of the guy you are against and make her feelings have to reconcile that she is leaving the attractive qualities of the player on the table, which she will miss.

I think WIA's opinion of "c'mon you know we're gonna fuck" - I mean in my game world if I can say that to a girl that other guy is already knocked out before that point. I think I would have the feeling to physically escalate before I would ever think to say something like that. To me that is just an ultra-aggressive flirt which I admire, I feel though the timing and way it was said would have to be so good for it to push things along before she was actually ready to be physical. This has expanded my mind though on how I need to focus more on mind fucking a girl first before looking for window cracks to get physical.

It's funny because I perceive WIA's "C'mon" line is like a Tomahawk missle. Then over qualify him and under qualify(secret qualify you) is playing ultimate don't give a fuck - leave the fort unmanned - defense. His does have more push pull. I give him that. Mine I feel like is a somewhat aggressive offense overall.

A great game goal which I believe I have gotten better at over the years is trying to get the girl to escalate strongly first. Like hand on dick strong or better. Not touch my shoulder for a brief second while laughing.

I do agree that probably just over pushing his boring qualities and disqualifying yourself is a safer bet. You really have to know when you take a stab at another guy in front of a girl what will land with her and what will make you look like you are sweatin' her.

I think if it is laugh out loud funny that helps your case than just overselling the guy. Well crafted labels stick and permanently change someone's reputation. You also become a pair doing something a tiny bit bad together.

Post: #42

(11-27-2016 09:06 PM)crdr Wrote:  Do you have any momentum with her? If so, it's really about out seducing the other guy. Being more exciting, interesting, better stories, and more importantly being able to put it down in bed ie) Elevate Status. Without telegraphing it. Attracting her by getting her attention, but not actively pursuing has worked for me.
My style is the "Dandy"

The safe bet bf is just that the safe bet. Competing head to head with a "beta" is stupid because he's gonna win most of the time.
In short, you can't beat a beta at his own game. Nor would I want to win his game.*

I wouldn't just Next her (if you have momentum), but developing oneitis is not good either. Keeping tabs has worked for me. The random bump in has worked for me. I've had some wins and some (self-inflicted) losses . But I have taken girls away from Mr. Safe Bet by the "my experiences" I gave above... It's all about momentum and rapport with me.

I don't believe in silver bullet advice. But most girls get bored of the safe bet hence the extremely High divorce rate.

Unfortunately the thread is titled wrong. My problem was not the other guy but myself. My game worked only to a certain point for some reason so I thought those girls just wanted to commit to LTR guy [which I'm not now] but the other guys got nowhere which made me curious enough to make a thread about it.

I'd never next her haha I'm too curious, I wanted to get to the bottom of it

No chance of oneitis. I'd pay to feel that now.

Post: #43

(11-27-2016 09:18 PM)Travesty Wrote:  Throw out bait about your history, personality, beliefs... whatever that you think based on her personality she would love to see changed about you.

Once you find out what it is she most wants to change about you (most likely having the personality trait of being too uncaring, selfish, or dickish - though sometimes other bigger issues like heavy drug use, breaking the law, being unemployed, being a starving artist, religion, politics, family or whatever else may be it), start a small fight with her about it. Make up though afterwards. Leave it in a place where it is still a testy subject though.

You want to embroil her in a long simmering fight (2-3 months) where there is a two step forward one step back approach to her thinking she is fighting hard to change that one thing about you. In this period you need to start a few more fights that escalate toward a redline because you act like she went too far by being unrelenting about changing, then calm down.

By end of month three you need to do a memorable gesture that shows her she just started genuinely to pierce the first layer of iron around your player core.

I can see it working well if we're already dating, holding hands and being a couple. This is quite good strategy for this other guy who is courting her to get her to invest in him. He, as a potential boyfriend, who almost has her, could do that to outgame me. But me and her we are not dating. At all. There is no incentive for her to "change" me. There are many things she doesn't like about me but for her there is no point in putting such effort into domesticating me like that cause i'm not her potential boyfriend. I gave her no such signals. She's not bothered by me being me. And that's actually good.

(11-27-2016 09:18 PM)Travesty Wrote:  The easier route is to get her to mention this guy indirectly probably by talking about the social circle you all run in. You can probably guess what traits she may not like about him. Ask her some open ended questions that may not put him in bad light on paper, as she says the words about him or his actions though it will affect him in a bad light. If you can get her to laugh at him and start seeing him as a chump in a lighthearted way all the better.

Lame, unimaginative, predictable. Those are the slogan you want attached to this guy when he gets mentioned. You may mentioned him only if it is a quick one liner that is guaranteed to make her laugh at him. On the other side be expressing a personality that is open, willing to explore, dreaming... get her out of her lame safe space.

That's what I'm doing by disqualifying myself and bigging him up [but not really hehe]. It's already working. I'm telling her that she's too nice girl for me, that I'm used to passionate relationships, that she looks miserable in my eyes being so lonely and loveless, that I'll find her a good polite bf, etc. I'm under her skin like never before. She's hooked hard now. It's funny how it works

Post: #44

(11-27-2016 09:53 PM)Travesty Wrote:  I think WIA's opinion of "c'mon you know we're gonna fuck" - I mean in my game world if I can say that to a girl that other guy is already knocked out before that point. I think I would have the feeling to physically escalate before I would ever think to say something like that. To me that is just an ultra-aggressive flirt which I admire, I feel though the timing and way it was said would have to be so good for it to push things along before she was actually ready to be physical. This has expanded my mind though on how I need to focus more on mind fucking a girl first before looking for window cracks to get physical.

Nah, it's nothing super outstanding, just highly suggestive flirting. I said the exact same thing to girls I work with, many times. Of course it has to be timed well and it has to fit certain context and vibe that there is between you and the girl. I'd never say such stuff randomly but I you play it right then there is a good moment to be very direct like that and girls are laughing their asses off.

One time I went out with chicks from work I told one [told, not asked or suggested] that we're going to an afterparty to her place [she lives with he bf] with two bottles of vodka to have a good foreplay before we have perfectly friendly orgy, just like good friends should have, which is gonna be one big drunk fuck fest to the point that the next day we won't have a clue what happened that night. They all exploded with laughter and omg excitement. It was crass but again, very well timed. And btw, there was no touching going on. Nothing happened that night of course but.. I conveyed certain image of myself and I placed an idea in their head. I got 4 girls out of this group. I hung out with them separately on different occasions, very casually and then we just banged as if it was completely natural consequence of us meeting up.

Verbal game is the shit. Escalation is overrated, it's just to pull the final trigger.

(11-27-2016 09:53 PM)Travesty Wrote:  It's funny because I perceive WIA's "C'mon" line is like a Tomahawk missle. Then over qualify him and under qualify(secret qualify you) is playing ultimate don't give a fuck - leave the fort unmanned - defense. His does have more push pull. I give him that. Mine I feel like is a somewhat aggressive offense overall.

Those techniques fit perfectly the "two steps forward, one step back" rule. There are times where you have to step back and make the girl to invest and come to you and that's what it does. I failed because I was on the offense too much.

Post: #45

Let's put it this way I'm above average overall in looks. Not terribly good looking but not average. The problem being the way I interact with others and the way I appear is that of a person that would con someone out of a few thousand if I was motivated enough.

I look sleazy and I accept that. And normally that attracts a certain type of girl, but for every other kind it's almost paramount to do one thing over all. Create trust. It's how I beat out the average guy. If I can get the chick to trust me then I win because I'm more fun, more cool, and more than likely(even just by the virtue of this forum alone) well connected than the competition.

Average well-put together beta providers give off that sense of trust almost instantly and it's, in my opinion, the one thing that they have compared to the adventurous, sexy guy. Because adventure makes men like us disappear with the wind on a moment's notice and odds are she won't be coming along.

How I do that exactly(other than being extremely cautious about any situation I get myself into) is by taking her out for a good time, being the only thing worth relying on that kind of night, and making sure she feels almost welcome in the kind of environment I thrive in. I shake hands and high five people I just meet and talk to them like old friends, get her into the heat of the conversations, and make sure she dances with me. Get her wanting to invest so much that beta provider is irrelevant because I've created that trust.

It gives options and opens her mind to the world around her, and as the kind of guy that can bring her into that world like that naturally I'm the person she'll trust.

Just my two cents.

Edit: And the way WIA describes it is a way to open her mind to something new. Because bringing up all those turn offs is a way to open her mind to her own inner wants. Creates options and destroys the ones she had before.

Post: #46

(11-28-2016 02:14 PM)XXL Wrote:  One time I went out with chicks from work I told one [told, not asked or suggested] that we're going to an afterparty to her place [she lives with he bf] with two bottles of vodka to have a good foreplay before we have perfectly friendly orgy, just like good friends should have, which is gonna be one big drunk fuck fest to the point that the next day we won't have a clue what happened that night. They all exploded with laughter and omg excitement. It was crass but again, very well timed. And btw, there was no touching going on. Nothing happened that night of course but.. I conveyed certain image of myself and I placed an idea in their head. I got 4 girls out of this group. I hung out with them separately on different occasions, very casually and then we just banged as if it was completely natural consequence of us meeting up.

Verbal game is the shit. Escalation is overrated, it's just to pull the final trigger.

Post: #47

(11-26-2016 04:14 PM)XXL Wrote:  

(11-26-2016 10:08 AM)Easy_C Wrote:  It has to be said.....it should be the safe guy asking the question Andy not you.

In fact if you are asking the question you probably aren't as much of the bad boy as you think. A more accurately "bad boy" mentality is abundance: there's only so many seats at the concert and if she isn't willing to pay her dues then somebody else will be more than happy to pay for a front row seat.

First of all, no, Andy the nice, would not ask such question cause he doesn't even know he can be better at getting girls. It's beyond his reality.

Second of all, asking a question about one or few other girls doesn't change my mentality or put me off track. If anything, I'm way more self aware and meticulous motherfucker than those idiotic "bad boys" you're comparing me to who act up and have no fucking idea what they do.

Your last last sentence only tells me that it's your mentality that holds you back as it implies that any girl who doesn't easily complies with you is lost cause so you bail on her thinking you're nexting her while in fact it's her nexting you.

The whole “I’m gonna give her one chance and if she doesn’t jump on my cock, fuck it I’ll go get more girls” thing is just an ego-protecting way of saying “I don’t know how to turn this around, so I’m going to find an easier (and probably less attractive) girl”. You cannot next a girl you haven't slept with.

Shots fired. Now what?

You missed.

I took my own advice, married the girl who went above and beyond trying to make me happy and to make the relationship work, and now have a marriage that makes a lot of people envious with kids on the way.

And any kind of sex I want at almost any time I want it.


You're right about one thing which is that it is about a girl nexting you. I never said otherwise. Here's the question: if the girl is "nexting you" then why on earth would you want to stick around and beg for scraps like a dog from someone who isn't that interested and doesn't care that much about you? It's much better to focus on the ones who make it worth your while where your time investment will be rewarded.

Of course you need to be spinning multiple plates at any time for that mindset to work. You should be doing that anyway right up until the moment that you start an official relationship with the one that you've decided would make a great mother.

Post: #48

My man XXL your 74 Rep points are a sign that you've been around this Game for a while, and know plenty of shit. The way I interpret your inquiry, is a sign that you might want to upgrade the quality of women in your life. As a playa you CAN get these Dimes, but they usually settle for some above average good looking low key dude, and not the super Top Dog that looks TOO GOOD on paper.

The saying you can't have your Cake and Eat it too applies here. If you're a playa, you'll attract a certain type of women you'll get down on you fast, but are not the Good natured girls that smiles to everyone, and are so pleasant to be around. As a playa on the verge of retiring in a couple of years, I've sworn off these Girls since I'm not ready to offer what they want: Stability with a Cool loving dude.

I already know how to be that cool loving Dude (as all the veteran on here). When I'm ready, I'll add the stability part to my behavior when it's congruent. It's the life I chose! I fuck Hoes since I'm a Hoe too! I'll let guys like the current Roosh get her while I'm still the 30 Bang version of Roosh. I say you should let her pass until you want to become that stable guy.

Post: #49

I don't have the rep points of the original poster. But here is my take: why "compete"? We men drive ourselves crazy comparing ourselves to other men. Why not just focus on being the best version of yourself? If it works, great. If it doesn't work, move on.

Post: #50

^ Because you want to get to a higher level.

You want to beat higher odds. And win a more difficult situation.

The hard won higher quality bangs are the ones that give more permanent confidence and make you want to push boundaries to experiment more.

XXL is going to have a migraine soon.

He's praying for the lost ghosts of BlurredSevens, soup, Therapsid and others.