Post: #126

Here's a good example of the damage that's been done.





Look at these idiots chasing a cartoon frog. It's hilarious. That's what most people will think when they see this. Pepe was fresh and had no inherent meaning attached to him. Pepe is funny. These idiots in the media were almost chasing ghosts.

But because of word-think, what Spencer did was he now poisoned the well with an extremely clear and extremely negative meaning. Doesn't matter if the people doing the salute were plants. He's an idiot (if not an idiot a subversive) for...

A) Inviting the media into his conferences. That lesson should have already been learned from Roosh's experience, who, to his credit, forced even the one appearance of the media, the BBC on the London leg of his lecture tour, to remain essentially shuttered and not interfering with people.
B) Bringing unrelated shit into it and poisoning the unrelated brands, particularly by saying "hail Trump."

Post: #127

It's surreal that in 2016 major media outlets and pundits talk seriously about a shitty cartoon frog face drawn as a joke by a no name artist.

Imagine if 10 years ago people said a frog face would be an icon for a political movement. You would have told that person to go fuck themselves.

The only thing that the media does these days is serve as a barometer for how stupid the public actually is. It's pretty dumb overall but not yet retarded to the point to disregard reality altogether.

Post: #128

(11-24-2016 04:21 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 03:50 AM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 03:35 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  A guy I know was there. He, and many others apparently, were disgusted by Spencer's bad judgement in his choice of language, and his appeal to the worst elements of the 'movement'. From what I gather, it was actually a pretty diverse crowd ethnically, though politically the majority would have considered themselves patriotic nationalists. My understanding is that many of those in attendance feel badly let down that their reasonable concerns, with fundamentally decent motivations, were hijacked by a section of the attendance who really are motivated by the rather doughy, soft-boy nastiness that is redolent of the 1488 types. By the sounds of things, Spencer has lost a significant chunk of his active audience.

I know Matt Forney, who I respect immensely, was there. He wrote something to the effect of "I didn't raise my hand, because I'm not an idiot."

See, this really goes to the heart of my concerns about this whole 'alt-right' thing. "I didn't raise my hand, because I'm not an idiot" is *not the same thing* as saying "I didn't raise my hand because I don't share their motivations". I think Forney has the same doughy, slightly camp unpleasantness about him as Spencer - though I've not met the guy and may be wrong.

Definitely, I have had lots of disagreements with Forney's posts over the past year or so. I definitely think he leans on the hardcore white nationalist/1488 side of things. Particularly if you read his posts about Milo Yianoppoulous. But, I can't be 100% sure, as you said. With me, it kinda comes down to who I'd enjoy going for a pint with, and in all honesty, I'd rather grab a beer with Milo or the 'Alt-West' guys than anyone on the 'proper' Alt-Right.

(11-24-2016 10:47 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

(11-23-2016 07:59 PM)Slim Shady Wrote:  There's another red pill, which will trigger most people on the forum, that the "Western Principles" aren't actually the best principles - just the best ones we have to work with in America.

The British were extremely mendacious and worse than Hitler in their actions (especially in India). You can look at a Muslim invader and know to stay away and be wary, but Europeans lulled you in with their rosy "civilization", "positive principles" and "Christianity" and then exploited you using internal Divide and Conquer methods. The European tradition is full of hypocrisy.

I have beliefs that are triggering to the normal world:

-Whites were no worse than blacks or natives.
-The Nazis were no worse than the British, the British were just on the winning side.


FYI, the USA was allowed to have it's freedom because the British didn't care about it anymore, they had India (that's why the USA won the revolutionary war).

The British left India much worse off, and certainly much worse off than before it was invaded by the Muslims. I don't see most people reading the Vedas anytime soon though, so the "Western Values" is what we'll run with. We don't really follow old school Western principles anyway. Most "western principles" about mathematics, science, democracy/good governance, rejecting slavery etc didn't originate from the Greeks; guess where they came from.

This is absolute nonsense. The current Indian flourishing, which is wonderful to see, owes a serious debt to British influence. Following the decline of the Mughal Empire and the end of the Timurids, India fractured into warring princedoms. The Indians were VERY happy to take the king's shilling, and to pay tribute in exchange for military assistance against their neighbouring warlords. India was quite advanced on the path to self-destruction before the British filled the power vacuum.

It is also worth considering the matter objectively - it was a time of empire, and India was in a state where someone was going to subjugate it. The Indians are EXTREMELY fortunate that they got the Brits, as one only has to look around now and compare former colonies to realise the consequences of being ruled by the French or Portuguese.

At the end of the day, we ran India with a thousand civil servants. India inherited all the mechanisms of imperial efficiency, and on the back of it they have been given a new lease of life. You don't have to love the British, or like them or that part of your history. What you do have to recognise is that India is well on its way to being a great civilization again in large part because of British influence and infrastructure. You should also realise that we were nothing like the Nazis, in practice or belief, and many of the very real horrors conducted under British rule were carried out with the complete complicity of the local prince.

For anyone who is interested, the best, most balanced book written on the history of the British in India is a book called Raj, the making of British India.

Agree 100%. I reckon Bojangles will come in shortly and offer his opinion as a British Indian. I look forward to his thoughts.

BTW H1N1, when I reached out in the summer for workout advice, you were one of the few to come back to me with proper advice. A few others either ignored me completely, or went silent when I asked for something tangible (leading me to question whether they are who they say they are), hence my recent signature change. You've not met anyone as far as I'm aware - but because you were so incredibly helpful, it doesn't apply to you mate.

Post: #129

I live in the USA, and am proud of AMERICAN values. I don't have to dick ride British values. Dick riding British imperialist values is the same as dick riding Nazi values. It is the same mentality that gets the USA into useless neocon interventionist wars.

I hate medieval India. It was shit,and divided. Pre-Muslim India was greater in its values than Muslim ruled India by a factor of a thousand, and better than the British values left in India by a smaller factor.

You can claim that colonial western values were for freedom and individualism, but history and evidence refutes this. The reason we must preserve modern American values is because we can actually practice what it preaches about self determination.This is why it is CRITICAL we fight for these values.

If you can't come to terms with this, then you have a lot of soul searching to do before you can be honest with yourself and get over your biases.

I don't have to go back to the East (although I wouldn't mind living in India) and I'm not trying to change the culture of America's foundation. However, aren't we all here trying to change the current culture of America? That's the whole point of a culture war isn't it?

I am simply informing you that a better culture exists, but I admit that it is probably not feasible in America, so I don't bother with it.

However if you can't question and go beyond what you're told by British imperialist fascinators, then you will remain blue pillled. It won't make much of a difference in your regular life, but it will make you less able to be honest with yourself, and make it more likely that you won't notice yourself becoming an authoritarian when the time comes. (Prof. Jordan Peterson: Man is more likely to be an Aushwitz guard, than Oscar Schindler).

Go back to my posts and answer my questions: where do you think these great "western values" originate? Before they were in Greece, they were in ancient India. This is a not very well known fact. Part of British imperialism was to crush the native spirit and history. This isn't Indian superemism, it's a warning on how invaders dominate natives. This is happening right now in the USA, with people trying to undermine US exceptionalism.

So in essence we are supporting the SAME principles. I'm just telling you who is the father. The problem has always been that Europeans never truly followed these principles till modern America. So you see why AMERICANISM is so special?

PS:

British imperialists treated non white colonies a lot differently than they treated the American colonies. This is fact.

British left India with socialism, division, created Pakistan, and CIA influence through the Ford Foundation. Not saying that Indian globalist cucks aren't responsible for these problems, but current Indian progress is happening because it is finally embracing nationalism and going AWAY from British colonial remnants, not towards them.

Post: #130

(11-24-2016 01:56 PM)Slim Shady Wrote:  Go back to my posts and answer my questions: where do you think these great "western values" originate? Before they were in Greece, they were in ancient India. This is a not very well known fact. So in essence we are supporting the SAME principles. I'm just telling you who is the father. The problem has always been that Europeans never truly followed these principles till modern America. So you see why AMERICANISM is so special?

I seriously want to know a bit more about this subject. I'm not really into ethno or civ debates about who fucked whose grandmother first to produce the superior race in an obscure war. I'm more into cultural lineage.

Post: #131

I didn't mean anything against you personally. I think it was because my train of thought was directed that way by that part of your post. I honestly can't remember now, but maybe it was something to do with native peoples of the land.

I think Britain should be for the British and I will support you fully to help you eradicate the current authoritarian scourge of invaders you have.

(11-24-2016 02:47 AM)britchard Wrote:  Slim Shady, can I ask why you quoted my post (not trying to sound passive aggressive, I'm genuinely a bit confused as to why you did it). If it was to detail your point about the evil Brits, then that's fine. I said in my post that I have neutral feelings towards the European takeover of America.

My nationalist (not white nationalist) side says that each country should be for the historic natives of that country. Britain for the British people, Egypt for the Egyptians, Russia for the Russian and so on. This would make me an opponent of what my country did in the 19th century.

However I think that in the long-term our invasion improved those countries. Especially Australia and New Zealand. I will post more in detail later.

Post: #132

I hate to play forum police, but perhaps a discussion about the relative superiority of Nazis. vs. British vs. Indians, and who came up with what values first, is better suited for the deep forum?

Post: #133

I see Sam's point about how this discussion could fit into the Deep Forum, though I would argue that Slim's posts are (well-reasoned, awesome, and) on-topic.

If I understand him correctly, what he is essentially discussing is a middle way that has the best of both sides: An acknowledgement of the positives of European culture and how it's ingrained in American culture, an acknowledgement of the cruelty of historical European colonialism to help avoid overglorification of history, an acknowledgement that although America was founded by and for white male land owners it has become and will always be multi-ethnic empire with influences from non-white peoples, but no presence of moral judgement on current European descendants. It's the best of leftism and rightism, without the idpol cancer, with multi-ethnic nationalism as its backbone.

I hope ultimately something like this is the successor to the Alt-Right, or perhaps what the Alt-Right evolves into after the WNs leave. In that sense, as we're discussing what the Alt-Right could (or should) be, it's an on-topic post, but I wouldn't object continuing this discussion in the Deep Forum if that's what the mods want.

Post: #134

(11-24-2016 02:16 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  I hate to play forum police, but perhaps a discussion about the relative superiority of Nazis. vs. British vs. Indians, and who came up with what values first, is better suited for the deep forum?

I'd be interested in such a thread simply because I don't believe ancient Indian values were that great from my knowledge as it led to the caste system and barbaric practices such as bride burnings on the funeral pyre.

Post: #135

(11-24-2016 01:56 PM)Slim Shady Wrote:  I live in the USA, and am proud of AMERICAN values. I don't have to dick ride British values. Dick riding British imperialist values is the same as dick riding Nazi values. It is the same mentality that gets the USA into useless neocon interventionist wars.

1. You're the one who brought up British values. Again, I've never seen anyone (American) refer to colonial Britain as either the creator or pinnacle of "Western values".

2. The "Alt-Right"/"Alt-West", if we're going by Vox Day's definition, is strictly anti-colonialist and anti-interventionist.

3. Who "started" what is totally irrelevant to the topic at hand.

The point of "Western values are superior" is from the perspective of WESTERNERS.

If Japanese think Japanese values are superior and Indians think Indian values are superior, have at it.

But if a Japanese person is in America, they should practice American values. And if an American is in Japan, they should practice Japanese values.

It's all really quite simple.

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2016/08/what-...ht-is.html

Quote:5. The Alt Right is openly and avowedly nationalist. It supports all nationalisms and the right of all nations to exist, homogeneous and unadulterated by foreign invasion and immigration.

10. The Alt Right is opposed to the rule or domination of any native ethnic group by another, particularly in the sovereign homelands of the dominated peoples. The Alt Right is opposed to any non-native ethnic group obtaining excessive influence in any society through nepotism, tribalism, or any other means.

15. The Alt Right does not believe in the general supremacy of any race, nation, people, or sub-species. Every race, nation, people, and human sub-species has its own unique strengths and weaknesses, and possesses the sovereign right to dwell unmolested in the native culture it prefers.

16. The Alt Right is a philosophy that values peace among the various nations of the world and opposes wars to impose the values of one nation upon another as well as efforts to exterminate individual nations through war, genocide, immigration, or genetic assimilation.

Post: #136

(11-23-2016 02:17 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

I'm not deep like you guys, but I would like to make some observations about this video:

1) Look at how happy this guy is that he's around people that get his little Lugenpresse joke.

2) I like his voice crack when he says white folks don't exploit other groups.

3) At the very end, watch when the big fat guy in the orange shirt gets up. A guy to the left of him stands up and does the Heil Hitler. Then he pulls it back. Then his giddy little buddy in the gray shirt runs up and pats him on the back and does it too. Like he's saying "Its OK, buddy we can do the Heil Hitler here." I just think that's funny.

God Bless America.

Aloha!

Post: #137

Ha ha, that lightweight Richard Spencer is liking his little moment in the sun. It's the only sun he gets since he and his lot are obviously shitposting on /pol/ most of the day and watching webms of Hitler's speeches. What a bad advertisement for the alt-right.

I was wondering whether I was alt-right by definition because I'm naturally conservative, but I most certainly wouldn't want to be associated with a movement represented by a room full of those fools. Or is that the real aim - to put people off?

Post: #138

(11-24-2016 02:03 PM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 01:56 PM)Slim Shady Wrote:  Go back to my posts and answer my questions: where do you think these great "western values" originate? Before they were in Greece, they were in ancient India. This is a not very well known fact. So in essence we are supporting the SAME principles. I'm just telling you who is the father. The problem has always been that Europeans never truly followed these principles till modern America. So you see why AMERICANISM is so special?

I seriously want to know a bit more about this subject. I'm not really into ethno or civ debates about who fucked whose grandmother first to produce the superior race in an obscure war. I'm more into cultural lineage.

This is honestly Indian nationalist falsehoods.

The 'Indian' values which are also present in Greece are Indo-European also known as Aryan values because they were brought to India with the invading Aryan/Indo-European populations who originated in Ukraine and Southern Russia, the Kurgan hypothesis, and most certainly were European, light haired, fair skin. We know this because we have genetics, we have linguistics, we have archeology. Words in the ancient Indian vedas in Sanskrit (Indo-European) for salmon, birch trees, bears, snow.

Haplogroup R1a1a



If there was a movement from India to Europe it would show linguistically, archeologically, genetically, but it does not. There is no, zero, findings to confirm it. Absolutely no scientists believe this after genetics became mainstream. The only divergent theory, and it not popular and not well substantiated, is the Anatolian hypothesis, which claims Indo-European language spread with farming from Anatolia, but it doesn't add up and is not accepted by more than a few.

The invading Aryans set up a racial based caste system with themselves at the top, which survived to this day.

Post: #139

(11-24-2016 02:39 PM)Comte De St. Germain Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 02:16 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  I hate to play forum police, but perhaps a discussion about the relative superiority of Nazis. vs. British vs. Indians, and who came up with what values first, is better suited for the deep forum?

I'd be interested in such a thread simply because I don't believe ancient Indian values were that great from my knowledge as it led to the caste system and barbaric practices such as bride burnings on the funeral pyre.

I'd be interested in learning about these apparent Indian values that pre-date Greece as well. I've heard the same ideas espoused by Indians in the US, however when I ask for evidence they can't provide any. They tend to go back to "Hinduism is the oldest religion in the world" which proves nothing. To me it always seemed to be the age old argument that 'My country is the best.'

Post: #140

That the Greek and by extension European values came from India are a laughable assertion. The only thing that European got that originated from India was gypsies

Quote:The Romani (also spelled Romany; /ˈroʊməni/, /ˈrɒ-/), or Roma, are a traditionally nomadic ethnic group, living mostly in Europe and the Americas and originating from the northern regions of the Indian subcontinent,[52][53][54] presumably from where the states Rajasthan, Haryana, and Punjab exist today.[53][54] The Romani are widely known among English-speaking people by the exonym "Gypsies" (or "Gipsies"), which some people consider pejorative due to its connotations of illegality and irregularity.[55]

Post: #141

When I get the time (hopefully soon) I'll make a separate thread for this in the Deep Forum for the many in this thread genuinely interested in discourse. We can discuss evidence and accepted theories/hypotheses from different periods of time, and why I reject/accept some of those accepted studies.

My overall point wasn't about this, and was very much related to this particular thread and the different "Alt" identities, and how to move forward from here - as Samanguru, armenia4ever, and maybe others have pointed out.

For hair-triggered deniers I have nothing but pity.

No more derailment of the thread. Carry on.

Post: #142

Lots of 'shit' being said here that has no factual not historical basis about both Ancient Greece and ancient India. There was no transference of values from one culture to another. Each civilisation grew their values in isolation from each other but the base of their beliefs and language came from the same place/region. It's that simple and that basic. Polytheism was the binder that allowed these values to be created because polytheism allows freedom of worship and enabled creative thought moreso than monotheism which at its core is a way of controlling populations through fear of God. British 'values' that are said to have been distributed throughout the world came about through Christianity going through an enlightenment period throughout Europe.

India was by a long way better off under British rule than Muslim rule. Indians have difficulty accepting this because this is the last invader and the one that lives closest in the memory. The British brought India into the modern age by actually creating one country called India, at no point in the past was the entire subcontinent under one rule, whether it was the Mughals, the Guptas or Ashoka the Great. The current infrastructure in place around the entire country has its roots in British plans even if they were to keep the natives under control. Should we consider lung cancer to be irrelevant because the nazis were the first to figure out that smoking was a major cause?

India is a federal republic that is essentially a mini Europe full of multiple ethnicities, languages and regional differences - if the British didn't come to India then it would be a shithole of small warring kingdoms equivalent to the numerous shitholes spread across sub Saharan Africa.

The Muslim rulers who someone seems to think were better than the British killed up to 100m of the indigenous population during their incursions and supremacy. No one in history has killed more - this isn't taught in Indian history due to the fact that India has the second largest Muslim population on the planet. Muslims raped India for more than any colonial power ever could. see Muhammed of Ghor and Mahmud of Ghazni for examples of what was taken and how many were killed.

India culture now is heavily influenced by the hundreds of years of Muslim subjugation, indian culture pre-invasion did have a substantial enlightenment period in 2 phases. The first was under the rule of the Magdhan empire after Alexander the Great's withdrawal from north west India (Hindu culture pre- Islamic invasion spanned from Afghanistan in the west to Burma/Thailand). The second was under the Guptas.

If you're really interested in reading about how fucked up the subcontinent was, how cultural values have changed and what really happened in various areas of the country then the first place to start is India by John Keay. This covers the Harappan civilisation, aryan invasions, origins of Hinduism all the way to modern age. Enjoy

Post: #143

Interesting thread and it marks something I have noticed. The white ethnostate stuff is way too intense for me. To be fair, I don't keep up with the politics on RVF, but I'm glad this forum has been consumed by that nonsense.

I think RVF and more sensible alt-righters have been wise to distance themselves from that kind of talk. A lot of guys who would be sympathetic to alt-right talking points are SUPER put off by talk of an American white ethnostate and "heil hilter" type of talk. I know this because I am friends with many guys who are moderate, hate feminism, pc-talk, globalism and all the things we dislike here but are VERY tentative about the alt-right because of all the talking time the extreme guys get.

Of course, it's all media manipulation, but you get the jist. I'll be reading this thread. Very interesting stuff.

Post: #144

Libertas and others, do you still want Trump to build the wall? Or is that also damaging to your reputation with the left?

Do you still want Trump to deport illegals?

Post: #145

I meant to say "have not" in my message.

Post: #146

(11-24-2016 06:18 PM)I DIDNT KILL MY WIFE Wrote:  That the Greek and by extension European values came from India are a laughable assertion. The only thing that European got that originated from India was gypsies

Quote:The Romani (also spelled Romany; /ˈroʊməni/, /ˈrɒ-/), or Roma, are a traditionally nomadic ethnic group, living mostly in Europe and the Americas and originating from the northern regions of the Indian subcontinent,[52][53][54] presumably from where the states Rajasthan, Haryana, and Punjab exist today.[53][54] The Romani are widely known among English-speaking people by the exonym "Gypsies" (or "Gipsies"), which some people consider pejorative due to its connotations of illegality and irregularity.[55]

Our numerical system, and the concept of zero, are Indian invention.


And also, a lot of advances in mathematics (and other fields) were done in India, and were transfered to Europe by Arabs (who captured India as well).


But, truth be told...Greek values were not derived from Indian values. Rather, they influenced each other, starting after Alexander's death in 4th century BCE.

Post: #147

(11-24-2016 07:39 PM)Irenicus Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 06:18 PM)I DIDNT KILL MY WIFE Wrote:  That the Greek and by extension European values came from India are a laughable assertion. The only thing that European got that originated from India was gypsies

Quote:The Romani (also spelled Romany; /ˈroʊməni/, /ˈrɒ-/), or Roma, are a traditionally nomadic ethnic group, living mostly in Europe and the Americas and originating from the northern regions of the Indian subcontinent,[52][53][54] presumably from where the states Rajasthan, Haryana, and Punjab exist today.[53][54] The Romani are widely known among English-speaking people by the exonym "Gypsies" (or "Gipsies"), which some people consider pejorative due to its connotations of illegality and irregularity.[55]

Our numerical system, and the concept of zero, are Indian invention.


And also, a lot of advances in mathematics (and other fields) were done in India, and were transfered to Europe by Arabs.


But, truth be told...Greek values were not derived from Indian values. Rather, they influenced each other, starting after Alexander's death in 4th century BCE.

I hear that type of argument every time some backwards country tries to argue that it invented something great in the past. It matters little which country invented what small part of the global sum of the world technology, it only matters what they did with it. Staking a claim that your country has invented something 1000 years ago means little when you apparently weren't able to leverage that to keep evolving and creating civilization. Europe and the civilized Western World will keep building cutting edge technology, improving the living standards of its people and sending people to space and back while the Middle Eastern and Indian corner will still wallow in their backwards swamp and fail at providing even the most basic of human amenities like sanitation, with many Indians hilariously going out to shit outside wherever they want and wiping with their left hand because a toilet inside is ironically considered unsanitary.

The "holy" river Ganghes - full of human shit and rotting corpses where Indians bathe and brush their teeth in - is truly the best and most fitting example and description of that corner of the world.

Post: #148

(11-24-2016 06:53 PM)Fortis Wrote:  Interesting thread and it marks something I have noticed. The white ethnostate stuff is way too intense for me. To be fair, I don't keep up with the politics on RVF, but I'm glad this forum has [not] been consumed by that nonsense.

I think RVF and more sensible alt-righters have been wise to distance themselves from that kind of talk. A lot of guys who would be sympathetic to alt-right talking points are SUPER put off by talk of an American white ethnostate and "heil hilter" type of talk. I know this because I am friends with many guys who are moderate, hate feminism, pc-talk, globalism and all the things we dislike here but are VERY tentative about the alt-right because of all the talking time the extreme guys get.

That's a perfect description of what's going on at the boundaries of alt-right. The same dynamics play out in other groups that have an internal struggle between radical and moderate elements.

Personally I'm hostile to the race-obsessed side of the alt-right. I'm about as open to being lumped in with them as I am with pedophiles.

Post: #149

Let's get this thread back on track. History and esoterism can be discussed in the deep forum.

So The_Donald mods created a new subreddit called The New Right, and they seem to be using Paul Joseph Watson's lead:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheNewRight/

8chan has a negative response to it:

https://8ch.net/pol/res/8353915.html

It is a possibility that the "new right" is the new SJWs. Let's see if they go around policing speech.

Post: #150

Dank meme