Post: #101

Upon the wall's completion:

REPORTER: Mr President, your original projected cost was $10m, but the finished project cost $12m. Why?
TRUMP: Because somewhere along the way, the wall got ten feet taller.

Post: #102

[/quote]

Post: #103

I believe when Trump talks about the Trump Wall, he's not speaking of a physical barrier as the end goal. He's being figurative and I believe the goal is more of a 'virtual wall'. His aim is to reduce the supply/demand of northbound illegal crossings by eliminating the ability of illegals to find work in the US (demand) and, through redistribution of wealth via a more progressive Mexican government, increase the economic situation for their poor (supply).

This would drastically reduce the border patrols current burden and render the current barriers exponentially more effective.

Original post in Trump thread: /thread-48360...pid1495827

Post: #104

(01-26-2017 10:29 PM)Praetor Lupus Wrote:  Upon the wall's completion:

REPORTER: Mr President, your original projected cost was $10m, but the finished project cost $12m. Why?
TRUMP: Because somewhere along the way, the wall got ten feet taller.

Obama added something like $9-10 TRILLION to the Federal Debt. Trump will build the wall for a fraction of that.

Post: #105

(01-26-2017 10:06 PM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  [quote='Fender_Bender' pid='1486716' dateline='1484549279']

That said, I would hope Trump won't put panels on top of the Wall. Too many leftist heads would explode with cognitive dissonance about renewable energy covering the cost of the Wall. As someone who is deeply involved with energy issues, I for one would feel sad seeing so many of my friends' early demise.

what do you think about storing nuclear waste along the border?

Post: #106

There are some betting websites giving 2.5 odds if Trump announces he'll be building the wall in 2017. Possibly another way to make some easy money?

Post: #107

(01-27-2017 12:44 PM)Hypno Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 10:06 PM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  [quote='Fender_Bender' pid='1486716' dateline='1484549279']

That said, I would hope Trump won't put panels on top of the Wall. Too many leftist heads would explode with cognitive dissonance about renewable energy covering the cost of the Wall. As someone who is deeply involved with energy issues, I for one would feel sad seeing so many of my friends' early demise.

what do you think about storing nuclear waste along the border?

You mean as a way to deter people from crossing the border? The problem with nuclear waste is that it can be used to make bomb material.

Post: #108

(02-20-2017 09:19 AM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

(01-27-2017 12:44 PM)Hypno Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 10:06 PM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  [quote='Fender_Bender' pid='1486716' dateline='1484549279']

That said, I would hope Trump won't put panels on top of the Wall. Too many leftist heads would explode with cognitive dissonance about renewable energy covering the cost of the Wall. As someone who is deeply involved with energy issues, I for one would feel sad seeing so many of my friends' early demise.

what do you think about storing nuclear waste along the border?

You mean as a way to deter people from crossing the border? The problem with nuclear waste is that it can be used to make bomb material.

And it doesn't kill quickly enough.

Post: #109

And it results in actual environmental disaster.

Post: #110

Came across a piece saying the wall only makes things worse at least in regards to the criminal groups that the wall should weaken:

Quote:Rule 1: A Cartel’s Business is Business

In many ways, drug cartels are similar to legitimate profit-making enterprises. They seek to fill market demand or stimulate new demand for their products. Mexican cartels profit by using their capabilities to expand into new drug markets and to smuggle drugs and other illicit commodities through innovative and secret means. Mexican cartels are “vicious firms,” earning money as organizations engaged in providing vice (primarily drugs, but also counterfeit consumer goods and human trafficking services) across a sovereign border.

The only law that cartels do not break is the law of supply and demand. Increased security along the border will not change demand for the goods and services that the cartels supply. In fact, as new barriers along the border increase risks for the cartels, they will innovate smuggling operations, raise their prices to keep profits flowing, and stimulate new domestic markets in Mexico and on the U.S. side of the border. These adaptations occurred after 9/11, the last time the United States seriously tightened its border security.

Rule 2: Borders are Opportunities, not Obstacles

Flowing from Rule 1, a new border is a boon for Mexican cartels because they provide incentives to generate profit. Thwarting border protections is an industry in its own right. Whether it is developing tunnels under the border or providing false documentation to get through a border checkpoint, Mexican cartels will still own the market for the ways and means to move products to the United States. Paradoxically, cartel profits may increase if NAFTA is renegotiated in ways that raise costs to Mexican manufacturers. Some cartels are deeply embedded in legitimate parts of the Mexican economy and have logistics positioned along the border to assist in the movement of legal goods smuggled through ports of entry to avoid high tariffs. Although NAFTA greatly eased the ability of drug cartels to move their products through looser customs inspections, drastically curtailing many provisions of NAFTA provides increased opportunities for smuggling.

Cartel opportunities for southbound smuggling from the United States into Mexico may also increase if the Trump administration clamps down on remittances sent to Mexico from Mexicans in the United States as a way to pay for the border wall. Cartels are adept at moving large sums of money into Mexico. They have used “cloned” vehicles that resemble official cars to transport money close to the border where they can pass it to their associates on the other side. Cartel members have also routinely placed hundreds of thousands of dollars on vast numbers of gift cards to reduce bulky shipments of cash and thereby decreasing law enforcement’s ability to detect the movement of money. Cartels will likely continue to find ways to innovate such tactics in an environment where moving legitimate money southbound becomes more difficult.

A new border wall will be accompanied by the hiring of 5,000 more Border Patrol officers and 10,000 immigration agents. However, more agents and officials equal more opportunities for profit and corruption. To move products through tightened security, cartels have routinely focused on penetrating Border Patrol and Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Since the Mexican drug wars began in earnest in 2006, almost 200 Department of Homeland Security employees and contractors took nearly $15 million in bribe money. “Owning” one of these officials allows the cartel to sell access to particular portions of the border to any paying customer.

Ironically, other potential money making opportunities for Mexican drug cartels are in the areas that will undergo new construction of the border wall. Many portions of the border exist in isolated regions. Construction crews living and working far from populated areas will be susceptible to illegal ways to fend off boredom. This is similar to what occurred in remote parts of the United States where fracking sites blossomed as well as incidents of prostitution and drug use. Along the southwest border, Mexican cartels could have a ready-made customer base.

Rule 3: Cartels have their own STEM Programs

Similar to legitimate businesses, Mexican cartels seek to innovate by relying on core competencies of their employees. But a cartel’s science, technology, engineering, and mathematics competencies are directed towards their more important STEM programs — surveillance, trafficking, extortion, and murder. Tunnels with running electricity, HVAC systems, and rail lines are only small examples of the technical prowess of Mexican cartels. They have used sophisticated methods to jam and “spoof” Border Patrol’s surveillance drones. Mexican cartels have even hired technical experts to develop custom made “narco drones” to deliver drug loads over the border.

Beyond technical achievements in trafficking, cartels have used extortion and murder to compensate for any curtailment of the drug trade. For example, in 2013, Monterrey, Mexico experienced a wave of kidnappings as violence among the cartels interfered with their ability to move drugs to the United States. Cartels have also extorted teachers, threatening them with death if they do not hand over large portions of their paychecks to local drug gangs. A new wall will also create jockeying for the control of new access points, which often turns violent. In previous periods of heightened violence, the ancillary market for murder created multiple opportunities for new hitmen to enter the fray, which at one stage led to a glut in the market and a drop in the price of contracting a killing in Mexico.

Rule 4: Cartels are also Patriotic

While El Chapo was on the run after his second prison break, he took the time to Tweet a threat against candidate Donald Trump for insulting Mexicans. Members of Mexican cartels often view themselves as patriots, just like any other Mexican. They are not isolated from their communities, but are rather deeply embedded. As two scholars on gang violence described, “they spend more time hangin’ than bangin’.” The cartels have invested in the local communities by supporting soccer teams and throwing celebrations on important national holidays. If U.S.-Mexican relations sour, the cartels are well positioned to support, and benefit from, a new rise in Mexican nationalism. As they have in the past, cartels would use their local influence and their money to bolster political campaigns, but, this time, aimed at those campaigns touting Mexican sovereignty and anti-Americanism. Nationalism couched in anti-Americanism would help the cartels if Mexican political parties view standing against cooperating with the United States as an electoral advantage. Some of this political positioning was already occurring in Mexico even before Trump’s election. However, reducing or ending cooperation in areas like law enforcement, intelligence, and defense would be a gain for Mexican cartels. The threat of extradition to the United States would also likely begin to recede for cartel members as Mexican politicians refuse to undertake any actions that would look like a political gain for the Trump administration.

The Game may have Changed, but the Old Rules Still Apply

The rules that Mexican drug cartels have used successfully in the past demonstrate how the cartels can change their practices to thwart state actions which interfere with their ability to make money. These same rules mean that a new border wall will not end or significantly reduce the capabilities and power of Mexican drug cartels. From the days of tequila smuggling into the United States during Prohibition, illicit trafficking across the southwest border has remained a constant. Only with enhanced cooperation between the United States and Mexico in an atmosphere of trust can the Mexican drug cartels be tackled. A new border wall will only undermine these efforts, to the benefit of the criminal groups that have fueled much of the distrust along both sides of the border.

https://warontherocks.com/2017/02/the-bo...eat-again/

The website have alot of links. So I encourage you guys to look through them to see where they are wanting. I stand on the opposite position to this man but its worthwhile to understand the other's sides argument and their defeatist tone.

And find certain valid points and things to consider like the strategies the Drug cartels will deploy to counter-act the wall. And try to keep their revenues flowing.

Illegal human trafficking will be done by those criminal groups. So expect to see more Illegal immigrants using those methods once the wall is up.

Post: #111

Quote:Only with enhanced cooperation between the United States and Mexico in an atmosphere of trust can the Mexican drug cartels be tackled.

No offence to you personally, IW1.

Post: #112

(02-21-2017 07:42 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Quote:Only with enhanced cooperation between the United States and Mexico in an atmosphere of trust can the Mexican drug cartels be tackled.

No offence to you personally, IW1.

Completely agree. When you have Mexican presidential candidate campaigning against Trump Wall in LOS fucking ANGELES, what cooperation can you possibly talk about?

Post: #113

(02-20-2017 09:03 PM)MOVSM Wrote:  And it results in actual environmental disaster.

I'm looking forward to the following documentaries on actual environmental disaster:

Hunting the radioactive beasts of Toronto:


Hunting the radioactive beasts of Paris:


Hunting the radioactive beasts of DC:

Post: #114

Pretty sure this is due to other than gamma-radiation exposure, superhero birth notwithstanding.

Post: #115

(02-21-2017 07:42 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Quote:Only with enhanced cooperation between the United States and Mexico in an atmosphere of trust can the Mexican drug cartels be tackled.

No offence to you personally, IW1.

No offence taken. Author's view not my view lol.

Post: #116

Post: #117

Special "eastern bloc" wall design with Autorepair™ and Autotackle™ features

Post: #118

Post: #119

^

It is "Guatemala", not "Guadamala".
And the wall on the picture is actually the one between Israel and Palestine.

Post: #120

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-im...SKBN16P0NX

Don't worry. It's coming.

Quote:The U.S. Department of Homeland Security has issued requests for proposals for prototypes for a wall along the Mexican border, saying ideally it should be 30 feet (9 meters) high and the wall facing the U.S. side should be "aesthetically pleasing in color."

Quote:A wall to stem illegal immigration was one of Donald Trump's main campaign promises and has been highly controversial. The president has vowed to make Mexico reimburse the United States for its cost but Mexico has repeatedly said it will not do so.

Earlier this week, the White House requested $3 billion more for Homeland Security, with some of that intended for planning and building the border wall.

According to one document posted online by U.S. Customs and Border Protection Friday night, the wall should be 30 feet high, built using concrete, and "physically imposing." However, it says designs over 18 feet (5.5 meters) high could be acceptable.

"Designs with heights of less than 18 feet are not acceptable," the document said. It said the wall should have features that do not allow people to climb over it and should prevent digging below the wall.

"The wall shall prevent/deter for a minimum of 1 hour the creation of a physical breach of the wall (e.g., punching through the wall) larger than 12 inches (30 cm) in diameter or square using sledgehammer, car jack, pickaxe, chisel, battery-operated impact tools, battery-operated cutting tools, oxy/acetylene torch or other similar hand-held tools," it said.

The other document requesting proposals has many of the same requirements but it does not specify that it be solid concrete.

Post: #121

Live footage of Trump Wall training and preparation facility in Mexico:

Post: #122

(03-03-2017 03:47 PM)Belgrano Wrote:  ^
And the wall on the picture is actually the one between Israel and Palestine.

According to Wikipedia and Snopes, you are correct: http://www.snopes.com/mexico-guatemala-border/

Post: #123

IS there a wall in Southern Mexico?

The articles that try debunking this usually show the Israel/Jordan pictures and then say that the picture is fake - therefore there is no wall. They go into it no further than that.

Post: #124

The request for proposal is posted on FedBizOpps.gov for Solid Concrete Border Wall.

If any of you are construction company owners, here is your chance.



Trump Admin Releases Details About Border Wall

Quote:The southern border wall will be physically imposing, hard to penetrate, and aesthetically pleasing from the northern side. These are just a few of the requirements, according to a solicitation for bids the federal government posted online Friday.

President Donald Trump has ordered construction for the border wall and his recent budget proposal to Congress includes $2.6 billion toward the construction of the wall. The president has previously estimated that the endeavor will cost $12 billion in total. Responses to the Customs and Border Protection solicitation for bids are due on March 29. Contract winners will be based on sample walls built in San Diego.

Below are the requirements for the “big, beautiful wall.”

The wall must be reinforced concrete and “physically imposing in height.” The government is aiming for a 30-foot high wall, and heights of 18 feet are acceptable, but nothing less.
It should not be possible for someone to climb the wall unassisted, and it should include “anti-climb topping features.”
The wall should also prevent digging or tunneling for at least six feet below ground.
It should be able to withstand a minimum of one hour of people attempting to breach a foot wide hole using their fist, sledgehammer, pick axe etc.
When it comes to the creation of a hole larger than one foot in diameter, the first 12 feet of the wall should withstand these efforts for up to four hours.
The north side of the wall, which faces the U.S., “shall be aesthetically pleasing in color, anti-climb texture, etc., to be consistent with general surrounding environment.” In addition, “the wall fittings and fixtures shall be secured on the north side of the wall to shield from external attack.”
Trump called for the wall to have a “big, beautiful door,” and the posting calls for the wall design to accommodate large mechanized vehicle sliding gates.

Post: #125

Note that the wall needs to look beautiful on the US side.

On the Mexican side it's allowed to look like shit.