Post: #301

(10-13-2013 06:54 PM)DVY Wrote:  That particular day I did 15 sets of deadlifts then 10 sets of hex-saftey bar deadlifts (easier on your back) then abs.

I can't recall anyone recommending anything past 5 deadlifts a week. Perhaps that might be a good place to start looking.

Additionally, consume fish oil

Post: #302

Is it pretty normal to feel a bit like someone beat the sh*t out of you when doing SS (on days off for instance) or is that more a consequence of not eating enough which slows recovery? Maybe I'm passing out of the "increase in neural efficiency" stage? Been feeling more sore lately though.

Post: #303

Are you still making the increases each workout?

I think it's normal to feel somewhat sore, especially after the deadlift day, but Rippetoe wrote somewhere that if you feel extremely beat up then you are probably having diet/rest issues.

Post: #304

I am but I've been stalling on some lifts. Right now my BP and DL is stuck.

Post: #305

(08-09-2011 10:52 PM)_DC_ Wrote:  I'm a decent sized guy... 6'0" and 180 lbs.

I've very confident in my look, thinking I'm the best or one of the best looking in a bar at any given night (this is much less important to some people, but I agree at lot with Assanova's posts). Anyway, I seem to have a decent amount invested in my looks.

That being said, I don't have much confidence in my body. Well, I should say I do, it's just not up to par with my facial features . I feel like my good vibes would increase 10x with 20lbs of extra mass.

Has anybody done serious lifting for the first time in their upper 20s? I've got decent strength, but I haven't lifted for a year (e.g. maybe 200 1RM on bench). I've started Rippletoe's "Starting Strength". You basically squat 3x a week, and do bench press, shoulder press, deadlifts, and chips/pullups. All heavy compound movements and full body workouts.

Maybe this is more a question for a body building forum, but I'd like to hear posters on the board and if they saw any great "beginner gains" in the first few months doing a similar program.

From all my research, with a good program (heavy compound lifts) a beginner can gain 20-25 lbs in a year (with most of that coming in the first six months). Gaining 15lbs in six months would certainly be awesome. I've also a natural increase in testosterone now that I'm lifting heavy. Just need to stop masturbation now and I should be an animal on weekends.

Any success stories with a similar program?

I used the strong lifts program, which is similar to starting strength, and saw excellent gains in the first six months. I own the third edition of starting strength and have incorporated it into my training. Of course, almost any program will work well for six months if you previously were not lifting consistently.

My beginning stats were:

Age: past 30 (this didn't change)
Height: 5 feet, 9 inches (that didn't change of course)
Weight: 149 pounds
Squat 1 rep max ("1RM"): 160 (terrible, I know; chicken legs)
Deadlift 1RM: 225 (awful)
Bench 1RM: 175 (pathetic)
Press 1RM: 95 (weak)
Barbell Row 1RM: 115 (a joke)

A little more than six months later:

Weight 172 (most of the added weight was muscle)
Squat: 335 (I was repping 295)
Deadlift: 360 (for five reps -- I've never maxed out again on deadlift)
Bench: 230
Press: 155 (perhaps my best improvement; my shoulders exploded)
Barbell Row: 175

My wife loved all the new muscle. It paid off big time in a lot of ways. I got her to cook me all kinds of fantastic stuff to keep the gains going. I am now stronger than anyone my size at my gym, and I'm in the same ballpark as guys who outweigh me by 30 pounds or more.

My best advice is this: your nutrition, eating habits, and consistency in sleeping are actually more important than your lifting, although the lifting is important.

I was eating around 3,000 calories a day when the weight got heavy. (Don't do this in the beginning of the program or you'll just get fat.) You need to eat at least 1 gram of protein (preferably animal protein) per pound of body weight per day to make maximal gains. You need to sleep at least eight hours every night to recover. You need to lift as soon as you recover. The sooner you can get back in the gym, the sooner you can move up your loads.

Follow the starting strength program. It's good. Just make sure that you are increasing the weight a small amount each time. Always be striving to increase the weight every time you lift. Go buy some Plate Mates for when you get close to your max, to keep loading in even smaller increments. The key to the lifting is to be absolutely consistent -- never miss a workout no matter what. Sometimes I had to go find a Gold's Gym late at night while traveling for work, but I always did it to make sure I hit my goals that week.

It's a great idea to keep a spreadsheet of your lifts. It's motivating and will keep you honest and consistent.

Also, make sure you get a good quality belt for when the squats and deadlifts get heavy.

Post: #306

I finally started to notice some physical changes from doing this program. This took me about three months. At this point I think I need to increase caloric intake. The last month has mostly been about dialing in my maintenance calorie range, so though I undoubtedly slowed my progress, I think it was worth reducing calories for a time.

Post: #307

(10-25-2013 08:02 AM)RexImperator Wrote:  I finally started to notice some physical changes from doing this program. This took me about three months. At this point I think I need to increase caloric intake. The last month has mostly been about dialing in my maintenance calorie range, so though I undoubtedly slowed my progress, I think it was worth reducing calories for a time.

If it took you three months on Starting Strength to see changes, you were doing something wrong. Either you were not pushing yourself hard enough, your diet was absolutely terrible, or both.

Did you follow the program 100%, and not miss any days/weeks? That's a long time to just now see some changes.

Post: #308

Yes. Took a couple of extra rest days last week due to tendonitis but otherwise 3x per week. I started with high body fat though, so everything going on has been hidden underneath that. I think my diet is pretty clean, and I log everything I eat. No alcohol for the past month.

I don't know how I could be guilty of not trying hard enough. It's been a considerable investment of time, effort, and discipline. Last week I got stuck under the bar doing BP and two days ago I had to leave the bar down on the safeties doing squats.

Post: #309

Rex, what are your starting and ending numbers over the course of the three months?
Methinks you weren't programming according to progressive overload.

Post: #310

Start: SQ-125, BP-100, OHP-85, DL-145
Now: SQ-230, BP-160, OHP-217.5, DL-280

Keep in mind that the entire last month was like one long plateau strength-wise because I cut back on calories after I started getting fatter in month 2. So I ended up stalling, resetting 10lbs, and trying to push weight up again on several lifts. So it's really more like 2 month's progress. On the other hand my belly is smaller.

Post: #311

Actually I need to modify that...forgot that the early workouts I did were not logged in my phone app. At the very start (3 mos. ago) it was SQ-105, BP-95, OHP-65, DL-85...not that it matters too much. I wasn't very scientific about picking the starting weights - it was just what I could comfortably lift 5x. All those (and the ones above) are 3x5 weights, not 1RMs. As you can see I was starting from a very below average strength level.

Post: #312

That's unusual that you can squat 230, bench 160, military press (117.5? almost 220 is a serious press), and deadlift 280 - all large increases compared to where you started - and haven't noticed much for muscle increase. Three sets of five for everything or one rep maxes on the recent lifts? I know Rippetoe only prescribes deadlift for one set of five reps, every other week (a hilariously low amount of volume).

I was seeing size increases almost immediately. Are you eating enough protein?

You can probably see bigger results by working four days per week instead of three - go for Monday, Tuesday, skip Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday can be rampage day, where you hit every lift as hard as possible and destroy everything.

Rippetoe only prescribes, what, 45 reps per week? Some people simply need more volume to see results, it's unfortunate but it's true. The converse is also true - my little cousin looks like an NFL linebacker right now and hasn't lifted in over a year. He's been carrying about 185 pounds of lean mass since he was 16 by doing nothing but eating chicken wings and playing xbox. Just sick genetics.

Post: #313

Rippetoe has quite a few variations, but the one in Starting Strength is deadlifts 1x5 max 1-2 times per week. That's the one I followed. I think there was an example of an optional template where you alternated powercleans with deads on workout a, with chins and pullups on workout b, so you only dl once every other weak.

The SS program itself is alternating power cleans with deads though I believe, so you dl and pc 1-2x for each one each week. So deads, pc, deads week 1 and pc, deads, pc week 2. That's how I remember it at least. Been a while since I read the book.

Post: #314

Yeah that 2 was a typo on the Military Press, obviously. I actually got up to 120 or 125 but I was cheating by bending the knees and had to de-load a bit and restart that one. Those were all 3x5 except for DL which is 1x5.

I am eating pretty consistently 1g protein per # bodyweight. Some days a little more, and some rest days here and there in the last month were a little less. Maybe I need to increase that to 1.5x.

I am doing "Version 2" of SS, which I guess is just known as the Novice Progression from Practical Programming. Similar to the "Wichita Falls Novice Progression." The difference is that it substitutes pull-ups for Power Cleans. I didn't feel I could learn PCs safely without one-on-one coaching. I'd like to add those in at some point, though. They look pretty cool.

http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/T...r_Programs

I'm thinking maybe the neural adaption phase lasts longer for some people, or maybe it's a combination of that and too much fat to see anything happening(?) as I could feel some changes happening earlier.:

http://skinnybulkup.com/neural-adaptatio...-training/

For me it was like:
1st month - lost fat in the waist at first, not too much else happening
2nd month - eating more, strength gains, but actually I looked worse (getting too fat, waist increased)
3rd month - cut back a bit, a lot of stalls, but waist reduced again and started looking better

I'd just say if you're coming at this program with a bit too much body fat (and many who are not teenagers anymore probably are...), be careful about adding too many calories too fast, especially at the beginning. I think you'll want to ramp them up slowly as the bar weight increases.

Post: #315

Well Rex Imperator, I know I tell everybody to try this shit - but try ketosis and lifting for one month and then wean off it if you want. It's not necessarily cheap but it's very effective for muscle gain.
Maybe your gains are slow because you did not eat enough calories or did not rest enough, or maybe you are 25 or 30 (no idea TBH), but if you have any residual metabolic issues, keto should fix them in a hurry.

And check out this article : NSFW
http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2013/05...-make.html

Post: #316

(10-27-2013 01:52 AM)Hades Wrote:  Well Rex Imperator, I know I tell everybody to try this shit - but try ketosis and lifting for one month and then wean off it if you want. It's not necessarily cheap but it's very effective for muscle gain.

Cool, Thanks. I know that Vince Gironda steak-and-eggs diet has some fans on the Mark's Daily Apple Site, for fat loss while lifting.

I've done very low carb in the past but personally I find I don't have too much energy to lift in the gym when I've tried combining it with weightlifting. That said, I try to cycle/time most of my carbs for workout days and hopefully in the post-workout meal, then cut back on rest days.

I'm basing most of my diet plan around the suggestions of this guy:

http://barbellmedicine.com/2012/07/29/584/

After starting to eat more again, I noticed I was feeling stronger in yesterday's workout so I will just keep on that for a while and try not to give too much of a sh*t about body fat for a while, and put the focus on getting lifts up.

I know this is going to be different for everyone, and so unanswerable, but generally, where do you think someone has to get strength-wise to start looking kinda "big"? I'm guessing it must be at least in the "lightly trained" strength chart category (which would be @ 1000lbs + or so in the big three for someone who weighs 220 lb.).

Post: #317

Drinking the milk (raw, about a quart a day) and this sh*t is working...Did 5x300 on the DL today, which I know is really not a lot but I wouldn't have believed it at the start a few months ago.

Post: #318

I'm posting in this thread too much already so I hesitate to do so again, but I like the balanced info I get here. BB'ers will say one thing and power-lifters another. At what point do you switch over to a more fat-loss oriented workout/diet? I've been doing SS for 4 months now.

Post: #319

I'm not an expert on cutting but personally I wouldn't even consider trying to lose weight while you are doing SS. You will soon get your ass handed to you if you try to cut the calories during this program. I feel the difference just from a day or two of not eating enough. Just ride the strength gains until they are exhausted (two resets on squat supposedly) and go from there.

Post: #320

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Post: #321

(12-01-2013 11:50 PM)dreambig Wrote:  I'm not an expert on cutting but personally I wouldn't even consider trying to lose weight while you are doing SS. You will soon get your ass handed to you if you try to cut the calories during this program. I feel the difference just from a day or two of not eating enough. Just ride the strength gains until they are exhausted (two resets on squat supposedly) and go from there.

I know what you mean. I would have to do some different programming besides SS in order to lose weight. I'm just not sure how long I can ride it out and continue bulking. Last month I increased my calories a little too much so I was gaining at the rate of 2 lbs a week. I think it's supposed to be closer to .5 to 1 lb per week. I am going to try and eat as close to maintenance as I can for a while and see what happens, but I'm close to the tipping point where I'd rather try and lose fat and maintain strength, than keep gaining strength, even though there are most likely more LP gains available if I keep eating.

Post: #322

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Post: #323

Are you counting/tracking your calories?

Post: #324

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Post: #325

(12-04-2013 08:52 AM)DickDastardly Wrote:  Yeah I actually have been struggling to hit my target which is about 2800 calories.

Part of it is probably the development of stronger (and bigger) ab muscles. Compound lifts like the squat and deadlift are great for developing a strong core. Since you started at 118 pounds, I'm assuming you had practically no chest or shoulders to begin with. Keep building that upper body and you'll even out.