Post: #1

What a shocker. Someone in Pittsburgh decided that police officers should actually be subjected to random drug testing. Not surprisingly, the police union has filed suit opposing.

Remember, once you get a badge, you can do whatever you want.

http://www.wpxi.com/news/investigates/pi...n/19147227

Post: #2

Quote:PITTSBURGH —
The union representing Pittsburgh police officers has filed a civil rights grievance against the city, claiming officers have been ordered to undergo drug and alcohol testing that is in violation of their contract.

The union tells Channel 11’s Rick Earle that the testing amounts to an illegal search and seizure that is not only in violation of the contract, but the Constitution as well.

“I don't know why the city suddenly changed the policy on this, and it's our position that this is an illegal search and seizure,” Bryan Campbell, an attorney representing the union, said.

According to the contract, tests are only allowed under three circumstances: If an officer is suspected of being under the influence while on the job, fires a weapon or is involved in a vehicle crash.

Sources tell Target 11 that an officer who was involved in a chase and crash last week on Baum Boulevard was ordered to submit to testing, even though he was not directly involved in the crash.

Another officer, from Zone 2 in the Hill District, who began a chase but then terminated was also sent for testing.

“They don't forfeit their constitutional rights to protect the city from a civil liability,” Campbell said.

Pittsburgh Police Chief Cameron McLay contends that the contract allows him to test officers involved in pursuits, regardless of whether they are directly involved in a crash.

“The reality is I consider us to have been involved,” McLay said. “We are going to interpret that policy as I believe it was intended and protect the officers, as well as the community, by verifying that the officer wasn't impaired.”

The complaint has been sent for review to the law department, which could force the police department to stop testing. If it does not, the complaint will go to arbitration.

An illegal search and seizure, you say?

Quote:Dec 2015 - The Institute for Justice recently released the second edition of its Policing for Profit report on the abuse of civil asset forfeiture. According to the report, the Keystone State “has some of the worst civil forfeiture laws in the country.” The Institute for Justice gave Pennsylvania a D-, with only Massachusetts and North Dakota scoring worse.

Huh.

http://watchdog.org/250862/pennsylvanias...america-2/

Post: #3

Here's how it works currently, from the article-

Quote:According to the contract, tests are only allowed (it's required, actually) under three circumstances: If an officer is suspected of being under the influence while on the job, fires a weapon or is involved in a vehicle crash.

This is a very common practice in government and non government work, similar to the circumstances under which I would have had to take one at previous job years ago. It's reasonable and makes sense to be tested in these circumstances.

However, random drug testing without suspicion or reason is something done to people on probation, not non criminals. It is not a common thing to have done in a job, even law enforcement. I can understand opposing it.

Post: #4

Any police department that opposes these kinds of measures better have a damn good history of defending the civil liberties of the rest of the citizenry.

Pittsburg, though? Doubt it.

My guess is that most of them would be scared the tests would pick up steroids, as steroid abuse is a serious issue among cops in bad crime areas and absolutely affects their judgement on the job.

Secondary thought. A lot of cops are going to be on pain-killers for injuries they've picked up (or just because driving around in a car all day and being tense screws up your back) and drug tests typically test typically do not discriminate between someone using pharma pills and being a heroin addict. Cops that get their meds under the counter are often doing so because if they go through legal channels it will flag them to be removed from active service and be put on disability or desk duty.

So I'm not entirely unsympathetic, but I'm not completely sympathetic either.

I suspect if they instituted this then they'd be left with a skeleton force after a portion were fired and a wave of officers suddenly got a doctor's appointment and ended up on disability pensions.

Post: #5

As someone who regularly has to piss in a cup for work (five times so far this year), I am 100% against random testing.

Post: #6

(07-18-2016 02:21 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  However, random drug testing without suspicion or reason is something done to people on probation, not non criminals. It is not a common thing to have done in a job, even law enforcement. I can understand opposing it.

Railroaders have been subject to random whiz quiz for MANY years, so I find the unconstitutional argument laughable as it has been tested. The testing is mandated by the Feds.

Post: #7

Perhaps we should give them roadsides and subject them to the same pseudo science quackery that constitutes DUI Probable cause?

Post: #8

My beef with piss tests is that THC can be detected up to a month after use so stoners like me can't get baked on our days off. They're starting to use saliva tests which only detect THC use up to 48 hours before, which is better but I still prefer that they didn't. In Canada this is entirely driven by the big US oil companies in Alberta, piss tests don't exist in neighbouring BC, even at oil refineries as they wouldn't be able to man the jobs there because everyone in BC is a huge pot head.

Post: #9

(07-18-2016 09:23 AM)scotian Wrote:  They're starting to use saliva tests which only detect THC use up to 48 hours before...

The roadside saliva tests they have here in Aus are easily beatable. I've seen a bloke smash 6 cones in 30mins, go for a drive and come up all clear.

Post: #10

Mythbusters already did an episode that should have ruled irrelevant any positive test for opioids for the standard saliva test.

The so-called myth that eating food with poppy seeds would give a positive reading turned out to be true, if I recall correctly.

Post: #11

(07-19-2016 04:28 AM)KeeperNine Wrote:  

(07-18-2016 09:23 AM)scotian Wrote:  They're starting to use saliva tests which only detect THC use up to 48 hours before...

The roadside saliva tests they have here in Aus are easily beatable. I've seen a bloke smash 6 cones in 30mins, go for a drive and come up all clear.

So how did he beat it? The pre-employment urine tests are beatable too by using a $50 flush kit drink before the test, basically they are loaded up with vitamins and creatine, you drink them two hours before the test, piss a couple of times then go in the bottle and you'll pass, I've used them several times.

Post: #12

Anticol cough lozenges.

Smash one in ya gob, let it sit on your cheeks awhile and bobs your uncle.

Post: #13

^ Good to know!

Post: #14

Scotion, do you partake daily regarding such "things"?

I've always wondered what the effectiveness of those drink products was for those that partake daily.

Post: #15

For the habitual user it comes down to dilution and replacement.

Dilute your system with water, replace it with a flushing product. I've used Omniclean with great success many times. Some with as little as two hours notice.

For those pre employment tests my preferred method is to wake up and drink water until I pissclear. Usually 3-5 times, then I drink my bottle, piss 2-3 more times until the colour comes back and bam! good for like 4-6 hours oluntil testing. Remember, your not flushing your system like you think. Your diluting your system. Because most lab rated tests won't measure anything under 15 Mcg's as a positive, Youre avoiding suspicion of further testing by making the sample appear with normal colour.

In many cases, simply drinking water and pissing clear can be seen as an act of tampering. In places where funds are limited to dip stick tests, i.e., probation testings, its highly unlikely theyll be sent to a lab. More lilely to be asked to piss again.

You can forego the drink kits with multivitamins if you'd rather. Theyre essentially the same thing. Just note that vitamin pills will take longer to break down and restore normal colour to theburine than a liquid kit. If you have the time to prepare and don't want to spend 30-50 USD then this is a good option. Just remember, Dilute your sample, replace the vitamins (color).

Post: #16

Opiate, cocaine, meth, and steroid use should be monitored because of the greater possibility for addicts to be corrupted and the change in the behavior/brain that the last three can cause. Almost everything else should not be tested for. Cops have one of the hardest jobs in the nation. Subjecting them to the indignity of random drug testing isn't right. Let them have their weed and other such things if they need it. I'll take a cop with a weed habit over one who sits in a bar any day.

Post: #17

RELEVANT

Post: #18

I will give my opinion and experience here. When I was hired I was tested and there was a test at the end of probation.They do the hair test. A lot of that makes sense. Problem is the random tests are not really as random as they would like you to believe.

Basically, most cops go their whole careers without getting called(except right before retirement) and apparently the same few get called all the time. When a cop "makes waves" or pisses off a boss, they seem more likely to get called for a so called random drug test. In my dept they are used punitively.

Another problem is it seems they randomly call most cops who are about to retire. Why? Well because if we are caught they can fire us without a pension. Again, it is used for the city to save money..unjustly. Who cares if a cop starts smoking pot on his last week? The pension section does apparently.

I was afraid when I was called. I don't do drugs but the testing company has been known to have false positives in their samples. The company is deep in controversy. There are cops fired without a pension who swear they never did drugs and who have character references, etc. But they are shit out of luck.

On that note, when I retired I worked nights so they had to pay me OT to go to get tested since it was after tour when testing is done. I made sure I couldn't piss and ended up getting about 7 hours OT at 60 bucks an hour before they got a sample from me. That time was pensionable and probably is the easiest 8k I ever got(calculated by expected lifespan).

Post: #19

(07-20-2016 04:53 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  I made sure I couldn't piss and ended up getting about 7 hours OT at 60 bucks an hour before they got a sample from me.

Isn't this just sticking it to your community who pay your overtime/pension?

Post: #20

(07-20-2016 04:53 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  I was afraid when I was called. I don't do drugs but the testing company has been known to have false positives in their samples. The company is deep in controversy. There are cops fired without a pension who swear they never did drugs and who have character references, etc. But they are shit out of luck.

Christ that's fucked up. Have these officers ever come together to bring a class action lawsuit against the city and the drug testing company for this type of shit? A lost pension is like losing a million+ dollars.

This is the sort of thing you'll never hear in the mainstream media because it involves screwing over cops.

Post: #21

(07-20-2016 05:13 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

(07-20-2016 04:53 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  I made sure I couldn't piss and ended up getting about 7 hours OT at 60 bucks an hour before they got a sample from me.

Isn't this just sticking it to your community who pay your overtime/pension?

The same community that that allows us be abused the way we are? ..

I worked those hours fair and square. Not my fault if they expected me to piss in a cup at the time I am usually in bed asleep.I don't usually get up to pee when I am asleep.I just didn't have to go!

Their goal was to hope I fail the test so they could fire me...I can sleep well at night! They tried to game the system against me. They can go fuck themselves. I am sure the 8 1/2 million taxpayers of NYC (one of the richest if not richest city in the world) can afford it. They have no problem paying bogus lawsuits to those who complain and sue.

Quote:Christ that's fucked up. Have these officers ever come together to bring a class action lawsuit against the city and the drug testing company for this type of shit? A lost pension is like losing a million+ dollars.

This is the sort of thing you'll never hear in the mainstream media because it involves screwing over cops.

[/quote]

More like 3 million dollars when you factor health benefits .Yes.. union complains etc.. but the courts , take the dept. side .

Actually, it has been in the media loads of time. The media reports but nothing is ever done.

Not sure if he is innocent but this is just this week:
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/excl...-1.2716420

There is the famous "meatball case" where a wife spike her husbands food:


http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/08/24/...-test.html

Another reason cops hide is stigma and being placed on modified duty . If a cop goes to a therapist and gets SSRI's or any other mental drug they have there gun taken from them and sent to rubber room. So cops either lie or they go to work without seeking help and you got angry ., depressed cops that should get help but can't because their job on the line.

But being an alcoholic is ok...they will just offer to send you 30 days to the farm and you then can go back to work.

Post: #22

Jimukr has some pretty solid points.

Another reason why most large police departments need to fire their union and start all over again, with a mind to protecting the rights of good officers, turfing out the bad ones and rebuilding the trust of the community.

Post: #23

Quote:

(07-20-2016 05:37 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

(07-20-2016 05:13 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  I made sure I couldn't piss and ended up getting about 7 hours OT at 60 bucks an hour before they got a sample from me.

Isn't this just sticking it to your community who pay your overtime/pension?

The same community that that allows us be abused the way we are? ..

I worked those hours fair and square. Not my fault if they expected me to piss in a cup at the time I am usually in bed asleep.I don't usually get up to pee when I am asleep.I just didn't have to go!

Right. You know if you feel that you're being treated unfairly on the job you can always quit. That's what everyone else does. You should count yourself lucky. Very few American workers now have the benefit of a union to stick up for them.

Post: #24

Hate the game , not the player bro!

Post: #25

(07-19-2016 08:24 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Mythbusters already did an episode that should have ruled irrelevant any positive test for opioids for the standard saliva test.

The so-called myth that eating food with poppy seeds would give a positive reading turned out to be true, if I recall correctly.

Half a poppy seed muffin or one poppy seed bagel will make you test positive for heroin.