Post: #1

I'm currently reading this book. It is quickly becoming one of my favorites, as it is a catalog of lessons I learned from a mentor of mine who first groomed me in the ways of the Game.

Now, I understand that this book isn't a catch-all. In fact, my favorite quality of this book is that it includes "reversal" additions to each chapter that serve to calibrate the law in varying circumstances. Obviously, 48 is an arbitrary number and the book's value would not be diminished, had Greene decided to go with 37 (or 50, as he did with the book's sequel).

My question is, which "laws" would you add to this book's list? And which ones do you think can be reduced to corollaries of other laws?

As I write this, I'm reminded of Carlin on "The Ten Commandments"

Post: #2

Been awhile since I've read the book. Well chosen words have a greater impact than foolish nonsense.

Post: #3

Learned a lot more from Machiavelli and Balthasar Gracian than Greene.

The only parts I liked about Greene's book were the anecdotes taken from Machiavelli and Gracain

Post: #4

Had to go back and grab the book for this one .

For starters Greene is an excellent introduction to power.

I would take it more as an inspiration than as fact. Learn from his examples rather than his laws. Ultimately every situation is different which is why I like that he abstracted them.

Now to the point.

All of the laws consolidate into these

1. General Awareness(That girl looks bomb)
2. Knowledge of tools(Different day game approaches)
3. Know your enemies/allies(So... Shes Muslim, Let me switch it up to be a bit more reserved)
4. Take action(get her number, take her to gyros and smash in your car)

For example
law 31, Control the options: get others to play the cards you deal.
law 9, Win through your actions, never through argument.
law 20, Do not commit to anyone.
law 21, Play a sucker to catch a sucker.

law 31 - Your girl wants to create drama, instead play ignorant and bide time
law 9 - You know shes beefing so you next time you see her you bring flowers and play extra nice.
law 20 - If all goes bad, well your good, 500 million other options.
law 21 - Dress well, look nice, smell good = women who Dress well, look nice, smell good. Dress bad, look bad, smell bad = Women who Dress bad, look badand smell bad.

The laws are there for you to get a basic understanding. Power increases through proper action.

Post: #5

I'm about to finish 48 Laws of power. Should I continue with The Art of Seduction?

Post: #6

(07-10-2016 02:46 AM)AfroSamurai Wrote:  Had to go back and grab the book for this one .

For starters Greene is an excellent introduction to power.

I would take it more as an inspiration than as fact. Learn from his examples rather than his laws. Ultimately every situation is different which is why I like that he abstracted them.

Now to the point.

All of the laws consolidate into these

1. General Awareness(That girl looks bomb)
2. Knowledge of tools(Different day game approaches)
3. Know your enemies/allies(So... Shes Muslim, Let me switch it up to be a bit more reserved)
4. Take action(get her number, take her to gyros and smash in your car)

For example
law 31, Control the options: get others to play the cards you deal.
law 9, Win through your actions, never through argument.
law 20, Do not commit to anyone.
law 21, Play a sucker to catch a sucker.

law 31 - Your girl wants to create drama, instead play ignorant and bide time
law 9 - You know shes beefing so you next time you see her you bring flowers and play extra nice.
law 20 - If all goes bad, well your good, 500 million other options.
law 21 - Dress well, look nice, smell good = women who Dress well, look nice, smell good. Dress bad, look bad, smell bad = Women who Dress bad, look badand smell bad.

The laws are there for you to get a basic understanding. Power increases through proper action.

Not to be rude, but I think you missed the mark nearly completely. And I was framing my question in a more general context than the game.

Post: #7

(07-10-2016 07:35 AM)Satoshi Wrote:  I'm about to finish 48 Laws of power. Should I continue with The Art of Seduction?

Depends. How many ladies do you think this man has actually seduced?





Just like with 48 Laws of Power, his suggested tenets don't come from personal use or experience. He's a writer who hit on a winning formula, nothing more. No doubt, there are some good and real pieces of advice in his writings, but they mostly do not come from direct experience, and he has said as much himself.

There are plenty of writings out there by men who walk the walk, that's where I'd suggest you look for information, especially if you're seeking knowledge of game/women. A great deal can be found right here on the forum.

But perhaps more importantly- Be careful not to spend too much time on "seduction" writings if your primary goal is to learn more about relations with women in order to achieve real life success with them, whatever that may mean for you. Your time will be better spent, and your mind exponentially expanded, if you instead go out and interact with as many women as you can. Men have a tendency to get lost in the analytical and feeding that beast, and it's often for its own end, not leading to action or results. Treat the writings as a rough guide and entertainment, nothing can instruct you better and more quickly than action and experience.

Post: #8

His girlfriend doesn't look too bad doing a google image search for Anna Biller.

Thanks for your advice. I didn't read a book about game for a long time and don't feel the need for it. Still, I've learnt a lot from 48 laws of power so will give his next book a chance.

Post: #9

(07-11-2016 03:02 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

(07-10-2016 07:35 AM)Satoshi Wrote:  I'm about to finish 48 Laws of power. Should I continue with The Art of Seduction?

Depends. How many ladies do you think this man has actually seduced?

Wouldn't judge him by his looks. Plenty of notable ladies' men aren't particularly "eye candy".

Charisma is a different kind of attraction IMO than simply looking good with your shirt off on the cover of Playgirl magazine.

I mean Hitler went from being a prison convicted to inspiring a whole country to kill millions of people in his name - and just look at that guy's mug.

Quote:Just like with 48 Laws of Power, his suggested tenets don't come from personal use or experience. He's a writer who hit on a winning formula, nothing more. No doubt, there are some good and real pieces of advice in his writings, but they mostly do not come from direct experience, and he has said as much himself.

There are plenty of writings out there by men who walk the walk, that's where I'd suggest you look for information, especially if you're seeking knowledge of game/women. A great deal can be found right here on the forum.

But perhaps more importantly- Be careful not to spend too much time on "seduction" writings if your primary goal is to learn more about relations with women in order to achieve real life success with them, whatever that may mean for you. Your time will be better spent, and your mind exponentially expanded, if you instead go out and interact with as many women as you can. Men have a tendency to get lost in the analytical and feeding that beast, and it's often for its own end, not leading to action or results. Treat the writings as a rough guide and entertainment, nothing can instruct you better and more quickly than action and experience.

I haven't read the whole seduction book yet, but from what I have read of it seems potentially better than the majority of "game" books out there, because:

1. It focuses more on the general principles of seduction and why they work, rather than just a "to-do" list of tips and tricks to try.

2. It goes beyond just "seducing women" and explains the concepts in a more well-rounded context, and how they can be applicable to meeting friends, success in the business world, etc.

3. Plus it uses actual historical anecdotes to back it up, rather than just a bunch of pieces of 'advice' that could have been plagiarized or made up entirely by some guy living in his basement.

Post: #10

(07-12-2016 11:33 AM)EDantes Wrote:  Wouldn't judge him by his looks.

I think you're taking what I'm saying more literally than I mean it.

Writing a book on "laws of power" compiled from various concepts presented other by men throughout history is one thing, but on the subject of relations with women one should seek out the words of men who've had an extensive and relatively successful history with them, and who speak from a personal experience standpoint. I don't get the impression this is the case with Greene

When there are writings by other men who are sharing real experiences, there's less of reason to bother with the men who are merely relaying concepts rather than sharing personal experience.

A guy can spend years reading concepts and it will do him little actual, practical good because he will never understand relations with women until he's gone out and interacted with a bunch of them, banged a bunch of them, fought with them, and prevailed with them.

Reading posts by WIA, Giovonny, and many many other men here will put you in better position to have practical and real success with women than anything Robert Greene is regurgitating. His books do indeed feed the desire for technical analysis that is strong in men, but they largely don't get you closer to a real understanding.

That's my view anyway.

Post: #11

Many times posts in here are just become a broken record, guys write the same stuff over and over just in different wording. I'll read the book and then get back to tell you what I think. Did you read the book yourself GlobalMan? Your post seems to be mostly about what the book should and should not be about, more than what's actually written in the book.

Post: #12

Of course, you should read and decide for yourself what value it brings for you.

Yes I've read some of it- never finished it. All stuff that I've seen in different forms in various places many times.

What I said is of course my opinion on the matter of writings on seduction- other people may have different ideas obviously.

Though, it shouldn't be controversial to say it's theory, not first hand lessons from a man in the trenches, and that so often such writings are only consumed for their own sake, doing little to enhance or change or give practical understanding to real life relations with women.

Post: #13

I agree with you on the first three lines.

Something I've been reading have thought me a lot, 48 laws of power for exempel, even though it isn't a book about game it still teaches a lot of things that are valuable when chasing girls. Models is a book which changed a lot in how I approach girls. Some shit have been a waste of time. Of course it doesn't do much if one stays at home wanking, I agree with you on that too.

Post: #14

So this book has been recommended to me, but I personally know two people at the office who love this book and Machiavelli and get juicy at the concept of making power plays and they are the most unlikable people around. People are generally glad when these people leave teams and they tend to fit the classic "buddy fukker" mentality, where they'll screw over their friends if they think they can leverage it into looking good, which ends up making them generally unlikeable or untrustable.

I suspect books like this put people in a bad headspace.

What are your thoughts?

Books I've particularly liked have been How to Win Friends and Influence People, Meditations by Marcus Aurelius, Enchiridion by Epictetus, Bang / Day Bang and the Bible.

Post: #15

I think How to Win Friends and Influence People and 48 Laws Of Power is a good combination.

The Art of Seduction is good so far by the way. Not as difficult to read as 48 Laws Of Power.

Post: #16

My two cents.

It's well written. Made me feel very smart reading it like I was in on a big secret.

Can I distill the laws as the Op asked? Not so much.. I've sat in book shops and watched people sit down and read it and no shit, without fail they start looking around the room over the book cover with this sly grin. Like they are the smartest motherfuckers ever. It had that effect on me as well but it is quite comical to watch.

Greene himself obviously thinks of himself as a modern day Machiavelli and basically states as much in one of his books.

The book did open my eyes to things I hadn't understood properly before. I was involved in organised religion and couldn't understand why and how things were going so drastically wrong for me within the organisation : this book explained it all and turned me on to
red pill thinking.

Seduction is a very different book. I am very much not a lover/ seducer more a fighter ( and sure not much of one at that) so I found his 33 strategies of war easiest to understand. Seduction the least , but there is gold there especially in terms of understanding seduction on a societal level. Advertising etc.
Pretty rubbish from a gaming point of view IMO.

One thing about Greene he likes to bend the facts to suit his stories/ laws. In the war book he pitted smart Churchill against the Nazis to underline his points. But while Churchill was an inspirational leader he was also a bstshit warmonger who practiced self defence in advance of the day when the Germans 'came for him', which was impractical to say the least.. A big difference between the allies and the Nazis was that the allied General staff could safely ignore Churchill whilst Hitler appointed himself above more experienced and capable generals thus hamstringing his own army ... which was by far the best army in the war.
Greene is way off in having Churchill outwitting the Germans - allied intelligence outwitted the Germans on D day. Churchill was an irrelevance, still pushing for his impractical plans to invade through Spain and then the Pyrenees.. Churchill wanted Auschwitz bombed the moment he knew about it. A noble sentiment and wish.
The fact that anti Semitic elements of the foreign office managed to bury that plan shows how irrelevant Churchill really was to allied strategic manoeuvres.
The fact that Greene plays fast and loose with his examples and their meaning calls his 'wisdom' into question. He and the reader may not be as smart as they think. Hence perhaps the dipshit guys at work other posters mention.
There is much much gold to be found though. ..
The 50th Law seemed such a ludicrous cash in I never bothered reading it. Likewise mastery...
Hope this little review helps..

Post: #17

Okay re read the original OP. The law Id add is this... Quote from Kung Fu Series "Monkey Magic" ===='Evil requires Good in order to survive, once it has exhausted the good around it, it destroys itself"
One of Grreenes quotes in 48 Laws on deception says something like " If he has the MISFORTUNE not to be a religious man he must simulate saintliness and devotion"
Real virtue can be dismissed by the likes of Machiavelli but Sun Tzu had it down: a virtuous man is truly brave, and a truly calm man apprehends what a schemer is blind to..

Post: #18

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Book Club Round 1: The 48 Laws of Power.
/thread-11263.html

Official Robert Greene Thread
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Post: #19

At the very least, his books have some nice anecdotes - and you'll learn about other, better authors from them.

Post: #20

Some of these laws are downright stupid.

Quote:Law 36

Disdain Things you cannot have: Ignoring them is the best Revenge

By acknowledging a petty problem you give it existence and credibility. The more attention you
pay an enemy, the stronger you make him; and a small mistake is often made worse and more
visible when you try to fix it. It is sometimes best to leave things alone. If there is something
you want but cannot have, show contempt for it. The less interest you reveal, the more superior
you seem.

Spoken like a true nerd who thinks his displaying of contempt for the hot cheerleader makes him cool, and not the spurned sperg he really is.

CH talks about caring vs uncaring assholery. Take a guess which one Greene falls under....

Post: #21

(10-03-2016 03:33 PM)Red_Pillage Wrote:  Some of these laws are downright stupid.

Quote:Law 36

Disdain Things you cannot have: Ignoring them is the best Revenge

By acknowledging a petty problem you give it existence and credibility. The more attention you
pay an enemy, the stronger you make him; and a small mistake is often made worse and more
visible when you try to fix it. It is sometimes best to leave things alone. If there is something
you want but cannot have, show contempt for it. The less interest you reveal, the more superior
you seem.

Spoken like a true nerd who thinks his displaying of contempt for the hot cheerleader makes him cool, and not the spurned sperg he really is.

CH talks about caring vs uncaring assholery. Take a guess which one Greene falls under....

This particular excerpt does sound very spergy, I agree showing active contempt at the object of rejection (especially women) is a bad way to do things but it is better than pining for something you can't have and not moving on. As Roosh says when a woman is not interested, walk away saying "her loss" and leave it at that.

Overall it is a worthwhile book and beneficial read. Rollo has made good use of applying some of the 48 principles to female dynamics, not necessarily the principles of seduction.

Post: #22

Greene's obviously a flashy writer, although a lot of his material simply revolves around comparing 2 counterpoints, thus what he calls the "reversal". The historical tidbits definitely keep the reader engaged.

Post: #23

didnt liked the book
and once i saw the author giving a presentation on TED
guy is beta as fuck

Post: #24

The 50th law with 50 cent is quite good too, audio books are a better experience IMO