I'm sure everyone has pondered this question, I'll just go ahead:
To what extent can experience and techniques offset physical attributes (strength, speed, endurance etc)?
Case in point: my master of arm is an old and calm gentleman, exactly what you would imagine a guy spending his life training young men to fight. He trains many young competitors who went off to bring back world medal. Still, he's in his 50s now, certainly fit but no longer has the same physique as he once did.
Take one of those winning competitors. The guy is 27, has incredible speed, reflexes, endurance. Beat everyone in the club.
In a fight to the death between him and the master at arm, who would win?
Or, would an old kungfu master be able to win against his best and fittest students?
Whenever I ask the question, nobody would give a straight answer. I have the feeling that everyone knows that the younger guy would win, but of course nobody wants to say it out loud.
Ass or cash, nobody rides for free - WestIndiArchie
(11-16-2017 03:59 PM)TravelerKai Wrote: LMAO! Australia! This shit looks like something Leonard, AB, or Strikeback would pull off!
A fire extinguisher is my actual theoretical go-to at work and other places, regardless of the threat of fire. Dry chem powder to the eyes can't possibly be pleasant, and a followup with a 2+kg steel bottle sure beats a punch or a kick.
Note the fact that the bottle is one with a hose. If that's what you've got in your hands then resist the instinct to hold the bottle with your left hand and direct the hose with your (presumably dominant) right. Instead, carry the bottle on your shoulder with your dominant hand and direct the hose with your off hand, thumb to face and pinkie to scumbag. That way if the guy comes at you then your off hand is already in a defensive position and the extinguisher is at a raised height ready to bring down on the skull of the asshole via your dominant hand.
And don't forget to pull the pin in your haste.
The person in the car should have just run the cunt over anyway. That's always been my advice to my wife. Some guy is fucking around while you're in the car? Stomp the gas and invoke the pussy pass later.
And don't forget, if you're in the right then keep your ass in view of those security cameras. The second you waltz outside that field you're opening your life to a legal fuckfest.
(11-24-2017 05:06 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote: I'm sure everyone has pondered this question, I'll just go ahead:
To what extent can experience and techniques offset physical attributes (strength, speed, endurance etc)?
Case in point: my master of arm is an old and calm gentleman, exactly what you would imagine a guy spending his life training young men to fight. He trains many young competitors who went off to bring back world medal. Still, he's in his 50s now, certainly fit but no longer has the same physique as he once did.
Take one of those winning competitors. The guy is 27, has incredible speed, reflexes, endurance. Beat everyone in the club.
In a fight to the death between him and the master at arm, who would win?
Or, would an old kungfu master be able to win against his best and fittest students?
Whenever I ask the question, nobody would give a straight answer. I have the feeling that everyone knows that the younger guy would win, but of course nobody wants to say it out loud.
You cannot quantify this aspect of combat.
That is why men fight.
To find out if what they have is good enough to overcome the other man.
(11-24-2017 05:06 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote: I'm sure everyone has pondered this question, I'll just go ahead:
To what extent can experience and techniques offset physical attributes (strength, speed, endurance etc)?
Case in point: my master of arm is an old and calm gentleman, exactly what you would imagine a guy spending his life training young men to fight. He trains many young competitors who went off to bring back world medal. Still, he's in his 50s now, certainly fit but no longer has the same physique as he once did.
Take one of those winning competitors. The guy is 27, has incredible speed, reflexes, endurance. Beat everyone in the club.
In a fight to the death between him and the master at arm, who would win?
Or, would an old kungfu master be able to win against his best and fittest students?
Whenever I ask the question, nobody would give a straight answer. I have the feeling that everyone knows that the younger guy would win, but of course nobody wants to say it out loud.
You cannot quantify this aspect of combat.
That is why men fight.
To find out if what they have is good enough to overcome the other man.
At the end its to overcome yourself. The other one is just a shadow compare to that.
We will stand tall in the sunshine
With the truth upon our side
And if we have to go alone
We'll go alone with pride
For us, these conflicts can be resolved by appeal to the deeply ingrained higher principle embodied in the law, that individuals have the right (within defined limits) to choose how to live. But this Western notion of individualism and tolerance is by no means a conception in all cultures. - Theodore Dalrymple
12-02-2017 06:43 AM
The following 1 user Likes Parzival's post:1 user Likes Parzival's post TravelerKai
So I finally took the plunge and signed up for BJJ at a local gym. It's relatively cheap, a 10min bicycle ride from home (a bit longer if i'm walking once the snow and ice are too much) and the class is good. The instructor is very good and the other guys in the class give off the check-your-ego-at-the-door vibe I was hoping for - as a newcomer they were instantly friendly but did not hold back when it came to rolling, which is fine with me.
My biggest thing I will have to adjust to is getting used to being ok with fighting on my back - I wrestled all through high school, and that was a long time ago, but it's pretty deeply ingrained in my head not to be on my back at all.
I've always enjoyed grappling, and now I am looking forward to learning some of the basics so I can put it all together.
"Intellectuals are naturally attracted by the idea of a planned society, in the belief that they will be in charge of it" -Roger Scruton
12-02-2017 12:44 PM
The following 2 users Like ed pluribus unum's post:2 users Like ed pluribus unum's post TravelerKai, Enigma
TravelerKai
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This is why you have to stay on point at all times in a conflict. Don't be so "relaxed and calm" that you get sucker punched.
This is another reason why some people are super fucking dangerous walking around because they can literally maul 3 dudes like they are just mere pieces of shit.
Another lesson is that violence is raw. Mere words can escalate to a savage beating in nanoseconds.
From a martial arts perspective, it is super obvious this guy is a trained boxer with lots of street fighting experience, perhaps even life and death events as well. He knew exactly what he was doing. Check out how he switched targets, pivoted his footwork, and his incredible hand speed. His conditioning is clearly very good. No deep breathing even after he got out of the elevator.
Knowing "how to fight in a phone booth" applies to transitional spaces like an elevator big time. You better have good defense up close. He would not have gotten away with attacking a purple belt and higher BJJ guy in a closed elevator, but he likely sized up those dudes and smelled the puss on them before attacking.
If you are gonna stand firm in front of a shitty person, be ready to go as well to block that first shot. Have your hands in position ready to counter without giving away body language that you are ready to fight. The guy in the blue/purple shirt had his hands in his pockets. NEVER DO THAT in a tense situation. You will get rek'd.
The best lesson is to not fuck around with Russians though.
Very dangerous guy. Went 0-100 in a split second. Plus, he waited for just the right moment by taking the initiative to leave the elevator first.
Besides hands in the pockets and obviously not de-escalating the situation, the biggest mistake these guys made (especially the first guy that got knocked out) is to have kept a short distance as they were leaving the elevator.
If the guy on the left had glued his back to the elevator wall and blocked the other guys from leaving (just a hang to their chests) after the boxer left the elevator, they might have avoided the beating, or at least have had more distance to push kick him away from punching range. This is speculation, of course, but perhaps a 2 or 3 second wait could have prevented the whole episode.
Guy in green: either gtfo with your girl or tackle the dude (at the risk of taking a beating as well). He's lucky he didn't take any damage.
Very dangerous guy. Went 0-100 in a split second. Plus, he waited for just the right moment by taking the initiative to leave the elevator first.
Besides hands in the pockets and obviously not de-escalating the situation, the biggest mistake these guys made (especially the first guy that got knocked out) is to have kept a short distance as they were leaving the elevator.
If the guy on the left had glued his back to the elevator wall and blocked the other guys from leaving (just a hang to their chests) after the boxer left the elevator, they might have avoided the beating, or at least have had more distance to push kick him away from punching range. This is speculation, of course, but perhaps a 2 or 3 second wait could have prevented the whole episode.
Guy in green: either gtfo with your girl or tackle the dude (at the risk of taking a beating as well). He's lucky he didn't take any damage.
Excellent point Ringo. Good teeps (aka push-kicks) destroy boxers and take their best weapons out of range.
Also another excellent point about maintaining distance was key as well. They probably felt good in their numbers to crowd his space like that.
Those guys that roam in packs, don't think outnumbering someone means you cannot get your ass beaten badly. At least one or two of you could end up in the hospital, trying to call dude's mother to let her know he is in a coma. Was trying to act hard in a group worth it then?
You never know what kind of people are walking the street. This dude is lean. He doesn't look 6 foot and he certainly isn't 200 pounds, but he put in serious work on 3 guys that hand him surrounded.
(12-07-2017 05:09 PM)TravelerKai Wrote: This is why you have to stay on point at all times in a conflict. Don't be so "relaxed and calm" that you get sucker punched.
This is another reason why some people are super fucking dangerous walking around because they can literally maul 3 dudes like they are just mere pieces of shit.
Another lesson is that violence is raw. Mere words can escalate to a savage beating in nanoseconds.
From a martial arts perspective, it is super obvious this guy is a trained boxer with lots of street fighting experience, perhaps even life and death events as well. He knew exactly what he was doing. Check out how he switched targets, pivoted his footwork, and his incredible hand speed. His conditioning is clearly very good. No deep breathing even after he got out of the elevator.
Knowing "how to fight in a phone booth" applies to transitional spaces like an elevator big time. You better have good defense up close. He would not have gotten away with attacking a purple belt and higher BJJ guy in a closed elevator, but he likely sized up those dudes and smelled the puss on them before attacking.
If you are gonna stand firm in front of a shitty person, be ready to go as well to block that first shot. Have your hands in position ready to counter without giving away body language that you are ready to fight. The guy in the blue/purple shirt had his hands in his pockets. NEVER DO THAT in a tense situation. You will get rek'd.
The best lesson is to not fuck around with Russians though.
What lessons you guys can pull from this video?
Great video on how to handle multiple agitators in a very tight space. TravelerKai and Ringo already brought up some great points so I will just add my thoughts to this.
1. The Russian guy was aware of his surrounding. Awareness is a very important skill to hone when training in martial arts.
2. The Russian guy's back was to the elevator wall, which tells us that he knew he's fucked without an exit strategy. It is a dangerous situation to be in if one's back is to a wall with multiple attackers in front of him. It is noticeable that he initiated and immediately took the first steps to the elevator door as an exit strategy when the door opened. He timed it perfectly to get out of a sticky situation.
3. The agitators clearly had an agenda due to their body language. Right off the bat, I noticed they were obviously Turkish or Muslims. After looking for some more information or description, a commenter mentioned this:
Quote:Ignatius3 days ago
Found the video on Russian websites. No real details to report except that it occurred in Omsk, Siberia and many Russians delight in seeing one of their own take down 3 people from the Caucasus.
The Russian fighter clearly has fighting skills due to his striking accuracy and footwork. Mad respect!
(This post was last modified: 12-10-2017 09:30 PM by budoslavic.)
(11-13-2017 06:36 AM)H1N1 Wrote: ^ you're also new to the sport, and are unlikely to have relaxed properly yet. Consequently, you're probably expending far more energy than you should be to complete every action. With all the activity you have posted that you do on a weekly basis, I suspect your conditioning is fine, you just need time in the sport so you can learn to relax, and fight hard whilst still being loose.
It's called White Belt Syndrome in BJJ. Most new white belts try to rip people's heads off, choke others to death, crushing their own arm in the process, and try to break off everyone's arm.
Work with the techniques you know and do them slower and correctly. The speed and endurance will come later on afterwards.
Most newbies in the martial arts world tend to be nervous and tense - i.e., shoulders hunch up instead of relaxing when learning a basic technique.
As TravelerKai and H1N1 already mentioned, the key takeaway is to learn and master the basic techniques over and over - doesn't matter what style one practices in. Mastering the basic techniques will lead to becoming more relaxed and loose as time goes on.
(This post was last modified: 12-10-2017 09:21 PM by budoslavic.)
(12-07-2017 05:09 PM)TravelerKai Wrote: This is why you have to stay on point at all times in a conflict. Don't be so "relaxed and calm" that you get sucker punched.
This is another reason why some people are super fucking dangerous walking around because they can literally maul 3 dudes like they are just mere pieces of shit.
Another lesson is that violence is raw. Mere words can escalate to a savage beating in nanoseconds.
From a martial arts perspective, it is super obvious this guy is a trained boxer with lots of street fighting experience, perhaps even life and death events as well. He knew exactly what he was doing. Check out how he switched targets, pivoted his footwork, and his incredible hand speed. His conditioning is clearly very good. No deep breathing even after he got out of the elevator.
Knowing "how to fight in a phone booth" applies to transitional spaces like an elevator big time. You better have good defense up close. He would not have gotten away with attacking a purple belt and higher BJJ guy in a closed elevator, but he likely sized up those dudes and smelled the puss on them before attacking.
If you are gonna stand firm in front of a shitty person, be ready to go as well to block that first shot. Have your hands in position ready to counter without giving away body language that you are ready to fight. The guy in the blue/purple shirt had his hands in his pockets. NEVER DO THAT in a tense situation. You will get rek'd.
The best lesson is to not fuck around with Russians though.
What lessons you guys can pull from this video?
I noticed that he did up the zipper on his jacket just before the fight started and I immediately thought that it looked like a precursor action. It's funny that when you have to babysit lunatics in hospitals for long enough you start to recognise little stuff like that. I don't know if there's a fighting principle behind it (reduce the number of grabbing points maybe) but for some reason the second he did that zipper up I thought "whoooop, there it is!"
I'm personally a big fan of the way he put all three men on the defensive immediately, doling out his first hits among the whole lot of them and putting them on the defensive as a group rather than trying to take down one guy and leaving the others to go on the offensive. I've often thought that even in a lop-sided gunfight you would be better off putting one round on every opponent as quickly as possible rather than trying to drop one guy before going to the next, refusing to let the other guys build offensive psychological momentum and immediately triggering their flight-reflex.
After you've managed that you just concentrate on the toughest down to the weakest.
(This post was last modified: 12-11-2017 03:39 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
12-11-2017 03:36 AM
TravelerKai
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(12-07-2017 05:09 PM)TravelerKai Wrote: This is why you have to stay on point at all times in a conflict. Don't be so "relaxed and calm" that you get sucker punched.
This is another reason why some people are super fucking dangerous walking around because they can literally maul 3 dudes like they are just mere pieces of shit.
Another lesson is that violence is raw. Mere words can escalate to a savage beating in nanoseconds.
From a martial arts perspective, it is super obvious this guy is a trained boxer with lots of street fighting experience, perhaps even life and death events as well. He knew exactly what he was doing. Check out how he switched targets, pivoted his footwork, and his incredible hand speed. His conditioning is clearly very good. No deep breathing even after he got out of the elevator.
Knowing "how to fight in a phone booth" applies to transitional spaces like an elevator big time. You better have good defense up close. He would not have gotten away with attacking a purple belt and higher BJJ guy in a closed elevator, but he likely sized up those dudes and smelled the puss on them before attacking.
If you are gonna stand firm in front of a shitty person, be ready to go as well to block that first shot. Have your hands in position ready to counter without giving away body language that you are ready to fight. The guy in the blue/purple shirt had his hands in his pockets. NEVER DO THAT in a tense situation. You will get rek'd.
The best lesson is to not fuck around with Russians though.
What lessons you guys can pull from this video?
I noticed that he did up the zipper on his jacket just before the fight started and I immediately thought that it looked like a precursor action. It's funny that when you have to babysit lunatics in hospitals for long enough you start to recognise little stuff like that. I don't know if there's a fighting principle behind it (reduce the number of grabbing points maybe) but for some reason the second he did that zipper up I thought "whoooop, there it is!"
I'm personally a big fan of the way he put all three men on the defensive immediately, doling out his first hits among the whole lot of them and putting them on the defensive as a group rather than trying to take down one guy and leaving the others to go on the offensive. I've often thought that even in a lop-sided gunfight you would be better off putting one round on every opponent as quickly as possible rather than trying to drop one guy before going to the next, refusing to let the other guys build offensive psychological momentum and immediately triggering their flight-reflex.
After you've managed that you just concentrate on the toughest down to the weakest.
Nope! No one gets "seconds", until everyone gets hit first.
This principle is very valid for gunfighting and is mostly valid for martial arts.
Only time you would not do that in martial arts is if the other opponents are a bit too far away to punch, then you work the closest enemy, and hurt him as much as possible until the others are within range.
In a gunfight, they call this "Boarding House Rules". You shoot each attacker once before giving another attacker a followup shot. If your aim is good, hitting each guy gives you an advantage where they feel the impact of getting shot, and that delays their ability to counter you with a shot of their own. Of course, always shoot the highest threat first, then work your way through the others.
In most cases, the first person to put shots on target wins.
You cannot ever assume attackers will fold just because you either lay out their buddy nasty with a left hook, or just because you double tapped and dropped their fellow thief.
How/Where you walk(step) and move, while shooting also can help you as well.
If you are going to run away, you better not do it half ass or half-hearted.
Even if you only know a little Brazilian JiuJitsu, you can drop down on your back, use your legs, to keep him from stabbing you and pull guard if he gets down to try and stab you. You can then use that opportunity to grab the knife and possibly stab him back with it.
Jumping over those boxes to the left is another tactic black dudes used for decades, that still works. If he cannot jump or climb, he isn't likely to run around and will give up.
Anyway, getting killed over a bad haircut is fucked up.
(12-14-2017 02:54 PM)TravelerKai Wrote: More Russian stuff.
...
If you are going to run away, you better not do it half ass or half-hearted.
Even if you only know a little Brazilian JiuJitsu, you can drop down on your back, use your legs, to keep him from stabbing you and pull guard if he gets down to try and stab you. You can then use that opportunity to grab the knife and possibly stab him back with it.
Jumping over those boxes to the left is another tactic black dudes used for decades, that still works. If he cannot jump or climb, he isn't likely to run around and will give up.
Anyway, getting killed over a bad haircut is fucked up.
Barber was obviously not the most athletic runner in a wide open space. He gave up rather too easily in an apologetic and scared manner. To add to the comments:
* one can take off his jacket and use it to deter and distract the attacker and his weapon
* if one wear a pant belt, that would be better and can be used for everything: offensive (i.e., snapping a belt to strike the attacker from coming closer); defensive (i.e., block a knife thrust)
* note the orange cone next to the vehicle - that object can be used as a way to keep, strike and deter the attacker with a knife at a distance
Quote:...
The horrific footage was caught on CCTV in the town of Troitsk, 23 miles south of Moscow.
After the attack Luzyanin then walked away as Mr Adkhamov staggered to his feet before being helped by a passing cyclist.
The attacker then turned around, and seeing his victim was still alive, calmly walked back and coldly killed him by stabbing him in the neck with the barbecue skewer.
He did so in front of bystanders who did nothing to deter him, according to police.
Mr Adkhamov died before an ambulance arrived.
The victim, known to his friends as Danya, was an illegal immigrant from Uzbekistan who had set up a thriving business with many regular customers offering cut price haircuts.
"...stabbing him in the neck..." Jeez...this tells us that the attacker had no remorse whatsoever. That is cold and fucked up.
Edit.
(This post was last modified: 12-16-2017 10:38 AM by budoslavic.)
12-16-2017 10:17 AM
The following 1 user Likes budoslavic's post:1 user Likes budoslavic's post TravelerKai
Anyone else interested in bare-knuckle boxing techniques?
It's occurred to me that a boxer (or nak muay in my case) is in many ways ill-prepared for a street fight because of gloves and wrist wraps -- the former producing poor knuckle alignment and the latter weak wrists.
A lot of boxing techniques would GUARANTEE a broken hand in a street fight, leaving a pure boxer defenseless. The open glove jab/flick comes to mind.
In the case of Muay Thai, gloves really don't make any sense at all. It's widely accepted you need to condition your shins and elbows. So why baby the hands so much?
Anyway, I've been reading up on old school (17-18th century) bare knuckle boxing. The resources are kind of hard to come by, but pretty interesting stuff. Personally, I've started hitting the heavy bag bare knuckle just to clean up my technique. It's actually made my boxing IN GLOVES better too. It forces you to be more precise and select with your punches.
Anyway, I'm probably geeking out here too much but if anybody wants to share any ideas/resources on this, feel free to chime in.
12-17-2017 04:21 PM
Buakaw
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It's occurred to me that a boxer (or nak muay in my case) is in many ways ill-prepared for a street fight because of gloves and wrist wraps -- the former producing poor knuckle alignment and the latter weak wrists.
A lot of boxing techniques would GUARANTEE a broken hand in a street fight, leaving a pure boxer defenseless. The open glove jab/flick comes to mind.
In the case of Muay Thai, gloves really don't make any sense at all. It's widely accepted you need to condition your shins and elbows. So why baby the hands so much?
Anyway, I've been reading up on old school (17-18th century) bare knuckle boxing. The resources are kind of hard to come by, but pretty interesting stuff. Personally, I've started hitting the heavy bag bare knuckle just to clean up my technique. It's actually made my boxing IN GLOVES better too. It forces you to be more precise and select with your punches.
Anyway, I'm probably geeking out here too much but if anybody wants to share any ideas/resources on this, feel free to chime in.
It's not babying the hands, the gloves let you hot harder.
12-24-2017 04:19 PM
Rocha
True Player
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Joined: Jun 2013
Reputation: 72
^^Dont wrap up the hands. Simply wear the gloves. It will make you avoid certain shots that might fuck your wrists. The jabs will be much less potent also because you will feel the impact on your knuckles.
Bare knuckle boxing predominantly focuses on body punching. You have to be very careful about throwing punches with real weight behind them, as hitting a forehead or elbow with full force will most likely break your hand. Bare knuckle boxing involves a lot more wrestling to move limbs around and leave openings for clean shots to the body, and once the hands are held low, for clinical shots to the head.
I've known a few bareknuckle boxers; from gypsies in the local area, to a former enforcer for the Kray twins who'd been national heavyweight bareknuckle champ. There's no great magic to it. It's a scrappier, uglier version of regular boxing, with an emphasis on durability over technique. The tactics are a bit different too - more use of the head, more striking to cut around the eyes, etc etc.
In my view any boxer could make the transition pretty easily with a few weeks bare knuckle on a heavy bag, and a few rounds of sparring without gloves.
One thing bare knuckle changes entirely is defense. You don't have 12oz pillows protecting your face. So a lot more punches slip through the guard.
Its more MMA style. You can use your weak hand to block punches, and blind your opponent. Or you can just use the top of your head like Justin Gaethje lol.
12-25-2017 12:09 PM
TravelerKai
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Quote:Jero García
Alma mater of the School. Jero has more than 25 years of experience as a coach. Former professional boxer, current Big Brother in Four and above all, boxing coach and kick boxing at the level of amateur and competition level. He has also been a preparer of artists such as Alejandro Sanz, Hugo Silva, Roberto Alamo, Natalia Verbeke, Daniel Guzman, Pablo Chiapella ...
Overall, searching for schools isn't easy Google wise, for Colombia at least. My Spanish is rusty as fuck.
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