Post: #26

There are exceptions. If the prospective groom's last name is Khunt or some variation thereof and the bride-to-be's first name is Sandy then I could have some sympathy there.

Post: #27

My wife kept her last name when we married because, frankly, going around and changing her name on everything would have been a pain in the ass. Furthermore, she legally changed her first name years ago to a western name, and I felt that changing her surname would effectively erase her identity. There wasn't any feminism involved and I'm she would have been open to changing it if I asked.

Post: #28

This isn't just any other red flag, this warning is Red Square on May Day in magnitude.

Post: #29

A woman who won't take her husband's name is a woman who is not giving of herself fully to the man and to the marriage. She has some reservations, some hesitation about signing herself over to become his mistress. ("Mrs.," don't forget, was originally a bastardization of "mistress.")

The modern concept of marriage is that of the fabled "equal partnership." In this relationship, neither is the other's property, charge, superior or inferior. Neither is "the man" or "the woman." They're two people — two individuals who divide responsibilities, duties and chores perfectly down the middle.

Almost immediately, there is frustration and resentment. For example: a woman has a baby, then complains that her husband isn't doing his share of changing diapers. She changes the baby's diaper 70% of the time, he only 30%. Never mind that at one time, women performed this task 100% of the time, and men 0. It's not equal, and that's a very serious problem.

The woman notices that she is doing the majority of the housework. She scrubs the bathroom spotless 80% of the time, he only 20%. That's not equal. Of course, the husband doesn't place nearly the value on a spotless bathroom that she does. Why bother cleaning something if it doesn't need to be cleaned? More fodder for anger, frustration & resentment.

Before long, the woman decides she's had enough of this inequality. She's ready to assert her independence, and — egged on by her spinster sister and lesbian friends — pays a visit to the divorce attorney.

In truth, she was never really on board with the idea of marriage. For a woman to be fulfilled, sexually and otherwise, she must give of herself fully to a man (and eventually her family). This flies in the face of feminism, and the mantra of equality. So what you end up with is a loveless, respect-less (and usually sexless) "partnership" which is bound to fail.

At least by not taking the man's name, she makes it that much easier for herself when she ultimately leaves him.

Post: #30

Woman, "I would keep my surname if we got married"
Man, "Ok, we don't have to get married"

Later....

Woman, "I really like the sound of my name, your last name"


I've never been married but that whenever the subject has been brought up that's how the conversation has gone. Every single time.

And the argument that it would be a hassle to change her names on official documents is a poor argument. If marriage is truly till you die then she only has to go through the hassle once.

Post: #31

(06-18-2016 03:02 AM)da_zeb Wrote:  My wife kept her last name when we married because, frankly, going around and changing her name on everything would have been a pain in the ass. Furthermore, she legally changed her first name years ago to a western name, and I felt that changing her surname would effectively erase her identity. There wasn't any feminism involved and I'm she would have been open to changing it if I asked.

A woman's identity is with her husband's. That goes for female academics, scientists, famous people, etc where a last name becomes a sort of brand.

That's a mighty big failed shit test there.

(06-18-2016 03:02 AM)da_zeb Wrote:  I'm she would have been open to changing it if I asked.

Why don't you ask her and find out. The answer might surprise you.

Post: #32

A woman should take the last name of her husband.
There are exceptions, though, such as when her last name is Trump. I don't mind Ivanka being Ivanka Trump.
If I marry a Trump I'll consider incorporate her last name to mine with a hyphen.

Post: #33

(06-18-2016 07:00 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(06-18-2016 03:02 AM)da_zeb Wrote:  My wife kept her last name when we married because, frankly, going around and changing her name on everything would have been a pain in the ass. Furthermore, she legally changed her first name years ago to a western name, and I felt that changing her surname would effectively erase her identity. There wasn't any feminism involved and I'm she would have been open to changing it if I asked.

A woman's identity is with her husband's. That goes for female academics, scientists, famous people, etc where a last name becomes a sort of brand.

That's a mighty big failed shit test there.

(06-18-2016 03:02 AM)da_zeb Wrote:  I'm she would have been open to changing it if I asked.

Why don't you ask her and find out. The answer might surprise you.

Just did and I wasn't the least surprised when she said "Of course, why wouldn't I?"

Post: #34

(06-18-2016 08:47 AM)da_zeb Wrote:  

(06-18-2016 07:00 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(06-18-2016 03:02 AM)da_zeb Wrote:  My wife kept her last name when we married because, frankly, going around and changing her name on everything would have been a pain in the ass. Furthermore, she legally changed her first name years ago to a western name, and I felt that changing her surname would effectively erase her identity. There wasn't any feminism involved and I'm she would have been open to changing it if I asked.

A woman's identity is with her husband's. That goes for female academics, scientists, famous people, etc where a last name becomes a sort of brand.

That's a mighty big failed shit test there.

(06-18-2016 03:02 AM)da_zeb Wrote:  I'm she would have been open to changing it if I asked.

Why don't you ask her and find out. The answer might surprise you.

Just did and I wasn't the least surprised when she said "Of course, why wouldn't I?"

Then go do it! It's tradition for a reason!

Post: #35

I'll admit that my wife kept hers. We weren't full red-pill at the time and she later admitted harbouring doubts that I was going to leave her. We later came to the conclusion that it was a major pain in the ass and both wish we hadn't been so stupid.

Now that we live in the country it's a real negative, being that people are very traditional here. In fact this thread has compelled me to get the paperwork together and fix that shit. It had mostly skated under the radar for the last few years but better late than never.

Post: #36

When Sparta was asked by Athens to start a democracy, Lycurgus responded: ""Begin with your own family."

Traditional marriage, where the man is head of household, and the woman raises children, has worked well for centuries. Part of taking a man's last name is the women is becoming part of the household of which he is head of.

In modern times, it's almost as though women feel their husband isn't masculine enough to take his last name. Rather, she wants to be head of the household.

In addition, the entire point of becoming a "family" is just that. Many women in modern times want the marriage, the ring, and perhaps the children, but they aren't capable of being wives and mothers after spending decades on the cock carousel.

If a woman refuses to take her husband's name, she is probably not committed to being a wife.

Post: #37

The thing is; men yield the most power here. The problem in society is not that women ask for this, but that men accept this. If she doesn't want to change it, fine, she doesn't get the ring. Its that simple. If she can't fully buy in, she doesn't get the fantasy or the meal ticket. Men that accept this led to the downfall.

Post: #38

I login to FB once every 2-3 months just to see what's going on. Usually, it's the same old crap - people posting useless shit and dudes doing their endless beta orbiting with likes, comments etc.

Yesterday, I saw something new. My "friend" John Cuck married Mary Carousel. And he took her last name and she took his. So now he's John Carousel and she's Mary Cuck.

WTF? Unbelievable.

Tons of comments congratulating the two on this new, bold and innovative move.

Fuck this shit.

Post: #39

I once told a girl I was dating I didn't want to go see her family for Christmas and that we should see mine instead. She got upset and asked why? I told her "because when we get married you'll be a part of my family and not the other way around. My father won't walk me down the aisle and hand me off to you, I won't take your last name, will I? Your father gives you over to me. Our children will have my name not yours. In marriage, you leave your family and become a part of mine that's what marriage is. Of course I will always treat your family as I do, with love and respect (they were all nuts) but you need to accept the fact that you'll be a (My last name) not a (blank) anymore.

She told me she wanted to keep her last name and the relationship slowly turned over the next several months. I honestly think this conversation was the tipping point.

Post: #40

(06-18-2016 09:21 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  If a woman refuses to take her husband's name, she is probably not committed to being a wife.

Judging from what I see around me, that's largely true. The same goes for women who just add their husband's last name to their own.

Such women won't necessarily cheat on you or divorce you, but that's hardly a consolation as they'll most probably get fat and stop having sex with you. Which is basically the same as divorcing you.

Post: #41

Every woman who has treated me right was really excited about the prospect of changing her surname to mine, even if we were just talking about marriage in jest.

So for a woman to be negative about that is an instant red flag telling you something went wrong with her. Like a girl recoiling at the idea of children, or acting uninterested when they are around children, even if we aren't planning to have children at the moment. From personal observation, a healthy woman is usually overcome with some kind of maternal instinct to love and give attention to a child when she sees it, even if it's not her own.

Post: #42

In Chinese culture, women always keep their last names just like the women in Italy. However I agree that any woman who is from/gets married in a region where there is a tradition of taking the man's family name, should do so wholeheartedly.

Post: #43

These are women who view marriage not as a permanent bonding, but as a "partnership." As in, as soon as I don't like this partnership, it's over.

I remember the tweet I saw a few weeks ago (author forgotten) that said, "Any time a man introduces his wife as his 'partner,' I immediately tag him as an imbecile."

Post: #44

Had a few conversations over the (pre-marriage) years about this very subject with my wife. She's traditional but also the product of a modern Western world. A few tests thrown my way over the years, and my genuine responses:

Q: Why can't you take my name, it's the CURRENT YEAR?
A: I don't care if my name is Captain Cocksucker, I'm not taking your name

Q: Maybe I should hyphenate my name...
A: That makes no sense. So would our children be Smith-Donehan*? If they got married to another double-barrelled name person would they become Smith-Donehan-Elwes-Rhineholt? And then the grandchildren Smith-Donehan-Elwes-Rhineholt-Jones-Bingham-Charlery-Adcock? Where does it all end? You taking my family name unites and identifies us as one family.

Q: It's such a pain signing all these forms and they charge to change XYZ on your ID...
A: I'm signing up to use all my financial and emotional resources to look after you plus children for the next half century, have to turn down hundreds of women who want me and probably go to an early grave, and you're bitching that you have to fill in some paperwork? Frankly it's bad enough that I'm not getting a dowry.

Agreed, if she won't take your name, don't do it. It's such a small sacrifice, and it's a sign that she doesn't see you as leader. A good woman wants to be absorbed into the identity of a strong man and become one with him. That's the whole point of getting married. If she rejects your name, she rejects the marriage.

When the time came she eagerly changed her name on everything pronto with no nudging required. She never really offered those challenges as serious non-compliances, just mini-shit tests that I obviously passed. Doesn't make me feel powerful, nor was it a power move intended to dominate her and erase her identity: it's just that when the man sacrifices so much it's a bit rich for a woman to play power games like that.

* Obviously not our real names...

Post: #45

(06-18-2016 09:53 AM)PainPositive Wrote:  I once told a girl I was dating I didn't want to go see her family for Christmas and that we should see mine instead. She got upset and asked why? I told her "because when we get married you'll be a part of my family and not the other way around. My father won't walk me down the aisle and hand me off to you, I won't take your last name, will I? Your father gives you over to me. Our children will have my name not yours. In marriage, you leave your family and become a part of mine that's what marriage is. Of course I will always treat your family as I do, with love and respect (they were all nuts) but you need to accept the fact that you'll be a (My last name) not a (blank) anymore.

She told me she wanted to keep her last name and the relationship slowly turned over the next several months. I honestly think this conversation was the tipping point.

Another thing I would like to add is that women don't even have their own last name until they marry. They are simply borrowing their father's name until they take the name of their husband. Until that time, they have no name and therefore have little identity. I know this sounds like an extreme view to some, but to me, a woman is not truly grown into being a woman until she marries and has children. That's what it means to be a woman. Children. Creation of life. Without that she is like a horse without legs or a flower without petals. Still technically a flower yes, but not much of one.

Post: #46

(06-18-2016 04:45 PM)PainPositive Wrote:  

(06-18-2016 09:53 AM)PainPositive Wrote:  I once told a girl I was dating I didn't want to go see her family for Christmas and that we should see mine instead. She got upset and asked why? I told her "because when we get married you'll be a part of my family and not the other way around. My father won't walk me down the aisle and hand me off to you, I won't take your last name, will I? Your father gives you over to me. Our children will have my name not yours. In marriage, you leave your family and become a part of mine that's what marriage is. Of course I will always treat your family as I do, with love and respect (they were all nuts) but you need to accept the fact that you'll be a (My last name) not a (blank) anymore.

She told me she wanted to keep her last name and the relationship slowly turned over the next several months. I honestly think this conversation was the tipping point.

Another thing I would like to add is that women don't even have their own last name until they marry. They are simply borrowing their father's name until they take the name of their husband. Until that time, they have no name and therefore have little identity. I know this sounds like an extreme view to some, but to me, a woman is not truly grown into being a woman until she marries and has children. That's what it means to be a woman. Children. Creation of life. Without that she is like a horse without legs or a flower without petals. Still technically a flower yes, but not much of one.

I forwarded this to my father and he said "Where did you get that from?"

I said "You probably."

He said, "Yes, because I heard that on a Ruckman tape (Peter Ruckman, A baptist preacher out of Pensacola, FL) when I was in my early twenties... that women don't even have their own [name until] they receive their husbands. Wow that's so funny I must have told you that when you were about 5."

Proverbs 22:6 (KJV)
6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

lol. funny.

Post: #47

25+ years ago I knew a woman socially who had been married and divorced twice. She kept both of her ex-husband's names. Yeah, she was a wingnut, but entertaining and certainly not part of what has become third wave feminism.

It was amusing...