Post: #51

(06-02-2016 04:54 AM)Cobra Wrote:  Maybe a "work at home" piece?

I'd be more than happy to share results once I make a breakthrough; seems to be a potential market today for passive income through ebook writing or other methods of writing (writing for a living is my dream job and what I'm putting most of my time and energy into).

Other than that in the past I worked a telemarketing gig from home which had potential for more than $3000-4000 a month however the company and others like it weren't reliable as career potential.

Post: #52

(06-02-2016 01:28 PM)EDantes Wrote:  You guys win, I think i'll hold off on thread creation for a few months and take it to a blog instead. (For the record I was trying to make more of a social point about just how much "safety" is overemphasized in today's society rather than say that anyone who uses health insurance is a pussy).

Yep! I finally do agree with you. While I appreciate your effort to justify your existence on the forum, you don't need to justify why you're here as long as you add value. That's all I want; just a little bit of value.

On behalf or at least some people on the forum, I would rather you spend your time adding real value to the forum than writing a blog to tap out due to my criticism and continue your tirade of irrelevant topics elsewhere.

Please tell us why we should keep you when your choice is to take the irrelevance elsewhere when you can have relevance here.

I look forward to the direction this thread is headed.

Post: #53

(06-02-2016 04:56 PM)Tactician Wrote:  Depends on your tolerance for volatility.

(Except if you plan to rig it) Insurance has negative expected value, so if you can tolerate the volatility of losing X it is better to not buy insurance for X.

Let's use houses for example. Say you own one house, if that house burns down and you don't have insurance, then you're fucked. However, if you own like 500 houses, it's smarter to insure none of them because the chance that a house burns down is really low and you can save a ton by being willing to accept the possibility of some variance.

It's all about bankroll management. In Texas Hold'em Poker, if you have a decent bankroll you will always want to go all-in pre-flop with pocket Aces, given the chance. In general, most of your money will come from hands like AA and KK. However, if you're a skillful player doing well in a tournament and you're right at the bubble of winning money or busting out with nothing, folding aces pre-flop is perfectly acceptable and often correct if it means you would be all in for your chips. Yeah, 80% of the time you will double up, but 20% of the time you'll bust out with nothing when, instead, you could have just folded and almost certainly ended up in the money.

Summary: If you're in the very rare position that you can tolerate the variance, then it's better to not buy insurance. For everyone else, insurance is a smart bet even if it seems like a reverse-lottery. Just because something has a strictly negative expected value in dollars doesn't mean it's stupid.

Note: Dental insurance is rarely worth it unless you know you have something coming up. Serious procedures are often covered under medical insurance, so the remaining few procedures like tooth cleaning and the odd filling or extraction are better paid for by just saving the money you would have spent on dental insurance.

This thread may be fucked but so is dental insurance. Your 100% correct that most people would save more money by utilizing an hsa flex account to pay to dental needs instead of wasting money on dental insurance. You can negotiate your own prices with dentists by being a cash paying patient. Hell, most people that have it don't even go to the dentist which is how the insurers make their money via non utilization. Total fucking scam uggghhh.

Post: #54

I have self-insured in Mexico for years because the health care costs are so reasonable. But now it looks like I might need an operation that is only available in the United States. But, US citizens living outside the US who don't have a resident address can't get US insurance. The US is expensive as hell. The doctor in San Diego wants $400 for a half hour visit. It is good to keep US insurance so that you have the latest technology available to you. You may need something done that isn't available yet in underdeveloped countries.

Post: #55

(06-02-2016 09:00 PM)Cobra Wrote:  

(06-02-2016 01:28 PM)EDantes Wrote:  You guys win, I think i'll hold off on thread creation for a few months and take it to a blog instead. (For the record I was trying to make more of a social point about just how much "safety" is overemphasized in today's society rather than say that anyone who uses health insurance is a pussy).

Yep! I finally do agree with you. While I appreciate your effort to justify your existence on the forum, you don't need to justify why you're here as long as you add value. That's all I want; just a little bit of value.

On behalf or at least some people on the forum, I would rather you spend your time adding real value to the forum than writing a blog to tap out due to my criticism and continue your tirade of irrelevant topics elsewhere.

Please tell us why we should keep you when your choice is to take the irrelevance elsewhere when you can have relevance here.

I look forward to the direction this thread is headed.

I mainly study philosophical and biological topics in my spare time and how they relate to modern life, masculinity, and culture. And enjoy sharing my insights if I think they might be of use to people;

Personal goal is to eventually make a career publishing books or media on the topic which will help people cope with modernity and live satisfying lives.

I think I'm good at piecing together common universal truths which exists across cultures and time periods, with a lot of it being innate in our biology

(For example, I've studied the behavior of people on political social media and noticed just how much human "tribal" behavior plays a subconscious role in our everyday interactions).

I think once I've figured everything out it'll be helpful to young men.

Because in this day and age of cultural chaos and so many conflicting "truths" in the media, I see more and more people deciding life must just be meaningless, throwing in the towel, and settling for a lifetime of video game addiction, boring jobs, and unhappy marriages.

Post: #56

Insurance is a necessity in the modern world. But some types of insurance are more necessary than others. It all depends. Everyone's situation is different, and a lot depends on your age, income, and health.

1. Health insurance. Everyone should have it. But the big thing is to look at premiums and deductibles. If you're young and healthy, you likely need less in the way of insurance.

2. Auto. State law requires people to have insurance. Again, look at premiums and deductibles. My philosophy of insurance is that it should be just that: insurance. That is, you should have enough in savings set aside to cover most problems. Insurance is for those big, catastrophic events. You save money by having more of a cash reserve, since you can afford a higher deductible.

3. Homeowners. Mandatory if you have a home. You can get discounts by using the same company to cover all your stuff (car, home, umbrella).

4. Umbrella. Consider it, if you can afford it. This gives you general liability in case of some unforseen event. Life is crazy, guys, and you never know what knob warrior is going to walk around the corner and do you harm.


Don't kid yourselves, guys. Life is crazy, and bizarre things can and do happen all the time. Insurance is there to protect you. Go without it, and you could be wiped out financially. The big question with insurance is not so much "Should I have it," but "How much of it do I need?"

The higher the deductible you have, the less you pay per month or per year.

Post: #57

I'm glad I had health insurance when I had my shoulder surgery, saw the doctor like 5 times (might see him quite a few more times too and its close to 200 a pop without insurance), physical therapy sessions, covering anesthsia costs, and sling costs. Easily would have spent 20,000 grand. And surgery can trigger other issues which require seeing other types of doctors. If you have any sort of chronic illness, or workout at all you should have health insurance. One bad rep in the gym can screw up a joint. Since my deductible was close to meet I think I only spent 200 bucks for everything. I wouldn't be surprised if my rates go up though. Still cheaper than paying out of pocket.

Its a shame dental insurance isn't worth it, would love to be able to get crowns and nightguards much cheaper.

Post: #58

(06-02-2016 10:05 PM)kbell Wrote:  I'm glad I had health insurance when I had my shoulder surgery, saw the doctor like 5 times (might see him quite a few more times too and its close to 200 a pop without insurance), physical therapy sessions, covering anesthsia costs, and sling costs. Easily would have spent 20,000 grand. And surgery can trigger other issues which require seeing other types of doctors. If you have any sort of chronic illness, or workout at all you should have health insurance. One bad rep in the gym can screw up a joint. Since my deductible was close to meet I think I only spent 200 bucks for everything. I wouldn't be surprised if my rates go up though. Still cheaper than paying out of pocket.

Its a shame dental insurance isn't worth it, would love to be able to get crowns and nightguards much cheaper.

Kbell you can, find a dentist you like and trust and I'll bet you can negotiate a good deal, especially if you're paying cash and you have a few dental needs. Most dentists will take less money if they're getting it up front with no insurance bs to deal with. If you have an hsa, even better, you can use pre-tax dollars to pay for it.

Post: #59

The problem is people really don't understand math, statistics, volatility, and bank roll management to come up with a financially prudent plan with regard to insurance. A lot of people just blanketly say 'the more the better' or 'insurance is a great deal' since they came out on the good side of it. Insurance as Tactician correctly pointed out serves only to reduce volatility. For this you pay a price. On an infinite timeline, everyone loses with insurance. For this reason many large companies with fleets of like 5000 cars self insure, simply because their outlay for damage will approach that of an insurance company, less the profit the insurance co would otherwise take.

Mr Money mustache has a great article on insurance, and I agree with him wholeheartedly.

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/06/0...d-at-math/

Basically says that since you can expect to lose money on insurance, there are only 3 times you should get it. If you're forced to by law (car insurance), the consequences you can't afford (cancer), or you are expecting a big ticket item in the near future (baby, major dental surgery).

Further, for those things you can't afford, high deductible is the way to go, literally as high a deductible as you can afford. like 10k if you can swing it. The reason for this is that it will lower your monthly payment, and reduce your negative expected value on the premium you pay. I've read estimates that in the long haul, the average person only recovers 50% of their premiums.

While I'm not a huge fan of many types of insurance because they essentially operate in the same manner as a casino, to just throw out "insurance is for pussies" shows as much lack of understanding and foresight as the person who loads up on pet insurance.

Post: #60

There hasn't been much discussion about life insurance, so I'll chime in:

Life insurance is one of the greatest things you can buy if you have a family.

Forget about the financial implications, think of how traumatic it would be to lose a father, especially at a young age, say 8 years old. Your kids life is permanently changed for the worse. You'll never be there for his balls dropping, his first HS football game, his first girlfriend, graduation, etc. He may or may not remember you, but you probably wouldn't have had a huge impact on his life.

Now imagine you die, he still has to deal with all that shit, but you leave him his college tuition and a trust fund so that he can purchase a home or a business. Now you have a legacy that you've left for him. He might not remember the life lessons you taught him, but he'll realize that you've made his life much easier.

Post: #61

I have insurance for catastrophic events. Insurance is a lucrative business for those selling it: used to sell insurance policies and the commission was just under 25% for our premium (standard) product.

Post: #62

Insurance is one of those necessities as modern life is risk laden.

If you have assets, travel, own a car etc. you're not only at risk of losing them but causing further damage and being liable for more than what you own.

I have a mortgage, business, car, travel a lot and I don't even think twice about my insurance premiums. All up it's about $10,000 a year and that's not including my business insurance policies.

So definitely not for pussies.

Post: #63

(06-02-2016 09:37 PM)EDantes Wrote:  I think once I've figured everything out

Just gonna leave this here and see if anyone picks up on what I am seeing.

Not trying to give you are hard time OP.

Post: #64

(06-02-2016 03:11 PM)AboveAverageJoe Wrote:  If I develop a disease so severe that it bankrupts, me I probably wont be too worried about having bad credit. Paying out of pocket, cash, for many procedures is at a great discount. I have been surviving fine with that method for decades because I almost never need a doctor.

The problem is that if you develop a catastrophic illness, you will die or suffer adverse long term effects from it unless you have insurance or can pay for treatment in cash. There is a (completely ludicrous) law called EMTALA that forces doctors and hospitals to treat "emergency" medical situations regardless of the patient's ability to pay, but it only applies to medical stabilization.

If you blow out your knee, you can go to the ER and they will give you some painkillers and rule out a life threatening condition, but that's the end of the story. You're not going to get the 20k surgery to reconstruct the knee unless you have insurance or 20k handy, so you may find that your running days are over. No orthopedic surgeon and hospital is going to be stupid enough to operate on you and provide the OR if you don't have insurance or give them cash up front, so your willingness to go bankrupt is a moot point.