Post: #26

Seems like most normal people piss away so much of their paychecks on fucking insurance payments of all sorts. I agree with OP.

homeowner's insurance, health insurance, car insurance, social security, medicare, federal withholding, state withholding. Your whole fucking paycheck is gone.

Zerohedge always talks about this. You're blindly giving away your money to other people who are *supposed* to be there for you years down the road, but when shit hits the fan you find out they won't pay or the money's gone. For some reason society drills into your head that you *need* to give away your money to these fuckers.
It's like all those public union employees paying into a pension for 30 years only to find out their benefits have been drastically cut. That's what happens when you trust other people with your money.

It's better to just save more of your own money for yourself.

And if you have a catastrophic health emergency that costs fucking 2 million dollars then you're better off dying anyways.

Post: #27

(06-01-2016 09:29 PM)Kona Wrote:  I love insurance. All of it.

I'll go to the doctor just to talk. I got my ears cleaned by a Harvard educated otolaryngoligist yesterday.

A few years ago there was a tsunami coming and I had a brand new boat without insurance and I was scared. My homeowners insurance will pay to have my siding cleaned.

There was a girl driving around my neighborhood in a Cadillac CTS a few years back. I thought she was playmate of the year Sara jean underwood. I got behind her and tapped hembumper with my truck. It wasn't her, but hey I got insurance!

I love it!

Aloha!

From here on will be more skeptical of guys who claim to have "tapped that".

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #28

Geez, no wonder OP has 3 neutral rep points.

Dammit Eddy, it'll be 4 soon.

Post: #29

(06-01-2016 07:18 PM)wi30 Wrote:  This thread is giving me cancer. Good thing I have health insurance.

You should probably pick up a supplemental cancer policy before you get diagnosed.

Post: #30

My problem with the OP more than anything is that this kid has started 48 threads in his short time, and most of them are over redundant bullshit that hardly lasts more than a page. Even a few threads with 0 replies.

All I have to say here is:

Post: #31

(06-01-2016 06:26 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  This reads like a johnbozzz question.

...

It's this kind of thinking that makes people want to slam their head into a table on the Alpha/Beta bullshit. It's "beta" or "pussy" to pay for insurance?

I don't understand why some people get total hard ons trying to prove how bad ass they are or alpha. And the two are not always the same. Plenty of perceived bad asses are just fuckups with a series of bad life choices - not sure how alpha it is to have poor decision making skills.

Just a guess here, but must people who ask these questions are pretty young I think. Not trying to be a dick, and once again I am going to throw out the carve out clause that there are some fucking mature/shit together guys on this forum who happen to be young - so all of you guys are not included in this statement - and you guys have helped me with your extensive knowledge - ok kissing ass done . But I don't see a lot of 30ish plus guys asking these questions.

Because if you have had enough life experience, you could see the benefit of insurance. You could see your body start to lose some of the great abilities you had when you were younger. The lingering ailments from living.

Not trying to pick on you OP.

Post: #32

Insurance is like saving money. Do you save money or do you just spend every penny in assurance that every payload you receive will be adequate for everything you need? And if you do spend all your money without saving, do you live alone??! No roommates, I'm talking living alone, paying rent and other utilities? That may give you perspective on things. Even if you do live alone and even if you do spend recklessly, it's not a wise thing to do. Animals in the wild store grains and berries for a rainy day. It's a human thing to do.

Post: #33

OP is continuing his line of low value thread contributions.

I've been in a lot of your threads requesting you to add some value.

Am I to believe that we could get a data sheet from you soon. Maybe a "work at home" piece?

Post: #34

Insurance is sort of like gambling, you weigh up the risks and the costs and decide if it's worth buying. If the cost of insurance is relatively small and it protects you from big risks than it's worth getting. It's not being a pussy, it's being smart.

However there are times when it just doesn't make sense getting insurance. Like people who get comprehensive insurance on a car that's only worth a few thousand dollars. If your just a few of your insurance payments can pay for a replacement it's not worth it. In Australia it's not compulsory to buy third party property insurance for your car, but it's cheap and covers you for millions of dollars worth of damage. You'd be stupid not to get it.

Another example of insurance that is not worth it for most people is life insurance. If you've got a wife and kids it might be worth it. But when I first started working at 16 I had someone try to sell me life insurance. Last year I had a telemarketer call me up and try to sell me life insurance. I told her I had no children and no wife. Why would I want something that I have to be dead to get? "Um, I can get my supervisor if you like..."

Being proficient at first aid is not a substitute for health insurance. Sure, everyone would benefit from learning how to keep someone alive, but that's all first aid is. What happens when you get appendicitis? Are you going to say "Screw going to a hospital and paying money, I'm going to use a rusty knife and take it out myself"

Getting insurance doesn't make anyone a pussy. It's about weighing up the risks, thinking about worst case scenarios, how likely are they. And then deciding if you'd be better off with insurance or without it.

Post: #35

Health insurance is the shit. I will never understand why so many people don't like it. But then again, I'm European...

Post: #36

I like the fact that if I take a multi-story fall while climbing, wrap up the motorcycle and survive (even though I wear top of the line armored gear), get hit by an uninsured drunk idiot while in the car, or catch an std from a skanky ho that I can go the doctor and get my stuff fixed relatively inexpensively. And I have a high deductable policy that is cheap and has a maximum payout per year of only a few k (which I can afford).

However, having insurance tied to employment is totally idiotic and has contributed to the ridiculously high costs, as it took pricing information out of the market for decades, which means the cost went up. Just look at the college bubble.

Hell, have you broken a leg before, or an arm? Surgery, surgical implantation of screws/stabilization plates/etc to get that fixed is in the 10s of thousands of dollars or more, not to mention the physical therapy that you need to be able to walk again. Your financial situation is going to be totally ruined if you suffer a freak accident and need to get real work done. Hell, people break stuff or die just slipping in the shower.

It won't prevent bad shit from happening, but it'll save your ass if you're still alive when it does.

Post: #37

I recently moved to Louisiana, USA, hurricane country. Home insurance rates down here are outrageous ever since Hurricane Katrina. And in addition, you need flood insurance, which is also expensive. On my 2000 sq. ft. home, it's about $5K/year.

This year, I'm not renewing my homeowner's policy, what people call "going bare."

Why? I've owned homes for 23 years, and spent thousands upon thousands of dollars on homeowner's insurance -- never once have I ever filed a claim. If you ever decide to actually file a claim, you can never get affordable insurance again. If you can get a policy at all, they will jack your rates even higher because you're now a bad risk, known to file claims against your policy.

So, homeowner's insurance is basically catastrophic insurance only. Sure, if the house burns to the ground, it makes sense to file a claim, but that's really the only circumstance in which you can recoup your premiums. If you have a burst pipe that causes $5K damage, you can't file a claim to repair it, or you'll be price-gouged or shut out of the market in the future.

This year, I'm letting my policy expire, and instead using the $2500 premium to install hurricane shutters that roll down and protect the windows during a hurricane. I will keep my flood policy in place.

Yes, I'm rolling the dice -- if a Cat. 5 storm blows my roof off and the house fills with water, I'm fucked. But after 23 years of paying these scammers thousands of dollars per year, I'm convinced the chance of me ever filing a claim against my homeowner's policy is slim to none. I'm done handing these racketeers my money, and will instead put the money toward storm- and fire-proofing my house.

I'm only able to do this because I own the place outright. If you carry a mortgage, the bank will require you to pay for insurance.

Post: #38

I didn't even know you could get pussy insurance. Seems you can insure anything these days.

Post: #39

OP, just move to a country that offers universal health care and you won't have to worry about health insurance.

Post: #40

You guys win, I think i'll hold off on thread creation for a few months and take it to a blog instead. (For the record I was trying to make more of a social point about just how much "safety" is overemphasized in today's society rather than say that anyone who uses health insurance is a pussy).

Post: #41

7 years ago I unfortunately suffered a totally random accident that I had no way of foreseeing.

Broke my Tibia, Fibia and Shattered my Ankle in my right leg.
Couldn't walk without crutches for almost 3 months and walked funny for another 3 months after that.
Half a year of my life with terrible mobility.

Damage was too severe for a simple cast, had to have surgery to put 2 metal plates in my leg and a big bolt through my ankle.

Luckily I had Health Insurance or else at the time I would of been royally screwed financially.

Post: #42

(06-02-2016 01:28 PM)EDantes Wrote:  You guys win, I think i'll hold off on thread creation for a few months and take it to a blog instead. (For the record I was trying to make more of a social point about just how much "safety" is overemphasized in today's society rather than say that anyone who uses health insurance is a pussy).

I think that might be a good policy!

Post: #43

(06-02-2016 01:28 PM)EDantes Wrote:  You guys win, I think i'll hold off on thread creation for a few months and take it to a blog instead. (For the record I was trying to make more of a social point about just how much "safety" is overemphasized in today's society rather than say that anyone who uses health insurance is a pussy).

I'm not sure I understand the connection between insurance and an overemphasis on safety. I don't know how many people are actually overinsured, even, though I've met plenty of people who explicitly told me they bought extra insurance they had essentially zero chance of needing "just in case".

There's definitely a long-standing trend of people becoming more and more helpless in their daily lives, as they expect to outsource everything from cooking to fixing a leaky faucet to a specialist. That's why I keep meeting these young guys who don't know how to do something as simple as drive a nail properly or change a tire, or even make scrambled eggs.

I bring that up because I think it's more in line with what you're getting at, fundamentally. It's not that safety is overemphasized, but the "don't try to solve your own problem, let an adult handle it" mentality that is pounded into kids' heads in school extends throughout many peoples' entire lives now. That, and the constant messaging saying "You can't do this, it's dangerous, you're untrained, you'll die if you try" for stuff as simple as using an axe. So they view every problem they haven't been explicitly trained in solving as something they need to leave to a professional.

Because of that, most people have no idea how to evaluate risk. They have no frame of reference in which to calculate whether or not they really need tsunami insurance in Ohio; they've never really looked at the underlying facts of problems, but just left it up to the pros. So finally, that's where buying all the extra insurance and warranties and so on comes in. No ability to evaluate risk = no idea what sort of coverage they actually need, so they cover everything just in case.

The insurance thing is really just a minor offshoot of a much more pervasive and generalized problem than simply worrying overmuch about safety.

Post: #44

(06-02-2016 02:16 PM)weambulance Wrote:  

(06-02-2016 01:28 PM)EDantes Wrote:  You guys win, I think i'll hold off on thread creation for a few months and take it to a blog instead. (For the record I was trying to make more of a social point about just how much "safety" is overemphasized in today's society rather than say that anyone who uses health insurance is a pussy).

I'm not sure I understand the connection between insurance and an overemphasis on safety. I don't know how many people are actually overinsured, even, though I've met plenty of people who explicitly told me they bought extra insurance they had essentially zero chance of needing "just in case".

There's definitely a long-standing trend of people becoming more and more helpless in their daily lives, as they expect to outsource everything from cooking to fixing a leaky faucet to a specialist. That's why I keep meeting these young guys who don't know how to do something as simple as drive a nail properly or change a tire, or even make scrambled eggs.

I bring that up because I think it's more in line with what you're getting at, fundamentally. It's not that safety is overemphasized, but the "don't try to solve your own problem, let an adult handle it" mentality that is pounded into kids' heads in school extends throughout many peoples' entire lives now. That, and the constant messaging saying "You can't do this, it's dangerous, you're untrained, you'll die if you try" for stuff as simple as using an axe. So they view every problem they haven't been explicitly trained in solving as something they need to leave to a professional.

That's basically it; I just see this attitude everywhere today.

Most "advise" today for kids dealing with school bullies is "call an adult", or for adults in a fight or altercation, the advice is "call the police".

Sure not everyone can solve all problems by themselves, like fix a broken leg or pay for $1 million in medical bills out of pocket, but it just seems like society as a whole tries to discourage individuals from solving their own problems, as opposed to just asking a company or the state to do it for them, which from a financial POV benefits the state and corporations, since if people could solve all their own problems themselves they wouldn't be in business.

The number of people I see for example who insist that everyone "visit a doctor" or use state-sponsored prescription drugs, even when natural remedies that have been around for thousands of years sickens me; today the progressive mentality is essentially that everyone was secretly miserable, sick, and helpless before the advent of "big science" and "big pharma" (even though modern-day hunter-gatherers who live in stone-age environments actually have longer lifespans than obese Americans do).

Post: #45

I think what the OP meant before he called every man with some insurance policy a pussy is this:
Is insurance a reasonable ROI? questioning whether or not it is a planning-to-fail mechanism, and whether self-funded improvements, greater responsibility, and efforts in the said underwritten endeavor would be better spent in-house as opposed to paying an outside entity (with whom you have a completely unequal relationship with) to manage your risk for you. I prefer to mitigate my own risk but my biggest peeve is that in almost every situation, as a homeowner, business operator, parent, driver, insurance is mandated by law or other mandates. You have no choice.

I pay homeowners insurance since I don't completely own my home. I pay for flood insurance on a different policy, this is optional but it is cheap and I live near water and have have had several close calls with flood water. I pay car insurance on the car I drive daily. I have insurance on the property that I operate my business on. In order to have my license I need to be bonded, a personal insurance policy. Now I have to buy my own govt mandated health care whether I need it or not? It is just too much mandated insurance. I could probably afford healthcare if I didn't have all these other useless policies to pay.
I can see the point of no-fault car insurance. Still 1/3 of all drivers where I live have no insurance. So then you need to pay for full coverage. God forbid you have a claim and try to collect from an insurance company. Their business formula equals this: Take in as much money in policies as possible. Restrict the amount of paid claims in order to maximize profits. Dealing with insurance companies is always stressful and leaves you feeling taken advantage of. Insurance companies don't give a f about you. But you do. In most cases you are better off investing the money to prevent catastrophes instead of paying for a service that, if all goes well there- is no return.

That is why the OP's original comment showed that he is in the prime of health with nothing to lose. The older you get the more you accumulate, the more instances you have to need insurance. i.e; you don't need to insure zero.
Ultimately, insurance is a scam and our over litigious society demands it however things like your health, home, and finances should be important enough to you at this point in your life to insure them. If you have lots of valuable things it makes sense to insure them, if you have very few resources you shouldn't be forced to insure yourself by law.

One thing I am sure of is healthy people should not be forced, under threat of imprisonment, to underwrite unhealthy people.
Its one thing to underwrite bad drivers but being forced to underwrite bad livers is just too much. I have too many other policies to pay to have to pay for that. I would love to afford healthcare but I wont pay for it in its current form. I am not really the kind of guy that "goes" to the doctor. I am very skeptical of many of their "cures". Western medicine is the best as far as traumatic injuries go but as far as treating chronic illness it is sorely lacking. If I develop a disease so severe that it bankrupts, me I probably wont be too worried about having bad credit. Paying out of pocket, cash, for many procedures is at a great discount. I have been surviving fine with that method for decades because I almost never need a doctor.

Post: #46

Insurance is meant for extremely low risk but extremely high cost events. Your house is very unlikely to burn down, but you're probably financially boned if it does. So you take a low guaranteed loss in the form of an insurance premium so that you are covered if the low risk event does occur. People generally see this as a good thing.

The opposite is credit card roulette, where everyone accepts a low risk of relatively high cost (footing the entire bill) for a shot at no loss at all (and an opportunity to laugh at your unlucky friend).

On the opposite end of the utility spectrum, you have shit like alien abduction/impregnation insurance. A lot of other types of insurance fall somewhere between the "you're an idiot if you don't have it" to "you're an idiot if you do have it" scale.

Post: #47

I thought some of you guys were exaggerating until I looked. 48 threads created since January. Wow.

Post: #48

I'll be straightforward: this is one of the stupidest fucking questions I've ever seen on here, ever.

Insurance is a wise thing to have. You might be the most cautious person in the world, but shit happens. A relative of mine didn't have health insurance and suddenly came down with gallstones. He was out $60,000. I really don't like Obamacare for a variety of reasons, but one of the largest causes of personal bankruptcy in the United States is related to medical expenses.

Post: #49

Depends on your tolerance for volatility.

(Except if you plan to rig it) Insurance has negative expected value, so if you can tolerate the volatility of losing X it is better to not buy insurance for X.

Let's use houses for example. Say you own one house, if that house burns down and you don't have insurance, then you're fucked. However, if you own like 500 houses, it's smarter to insure none of them because the chance that a house burns down is really low and you can save a ton by being willing to accept the possibility of some variance.

It's all about bankroll management. In Texas Hold'em Poker, if you have a decent bankroll you will always want to go all-in pre-flop with pocket Aces, given the chance. In general, most of your money will come from hands like AA and KK. However, if you're a skillful player doing well in a tournament and you're right at the bubble of winning money or busting out with nothing, folding aces pre-flop is perfectly acceptable and often correct if it means you would be all in for your chips. Yeah, 80% of the time you will double up, but 20% of the time you'll bust out with nothing when, instead, you could have just folded and almost certainly ended up in the money.

Summary: If you're in the very rare position that you can tolerate the variance, then it's better to not buy insurance. For everyone else, insurance is a smart bet even if it seems like a reverse-lottery. Just because something has a strictly negative expected value in dollars doesn't mean it's stupid.

Note: Dental insurance is rarely worth it unless you know you have something coming up. Serious procedures are often covered under medical insurance, so the remaining few procedures like tooth cleaning and the odd filling or extraction are better paid for by just saving the money you would have spent on dental insurance.

Post: #50

(06-02-2016 04:34 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  I thought some of you guys were exaggerating until I looked. 48 threads created since January. Wow.

I was on a lit fuse for some time thinking he would stop with the shitposing, but I had enough with this most recent thread. He's created more than twice the number of threads I've created here in 3 years.

Granted I shitposted too as a newbie. We all did, but thankfully I kept it to the newbie forum. I thought he would grow out of it too, but 48 is a too excessive mate shit.........