Post: #1

About 2 or so years ago I bought "Becoming a Supple Leopard" by Kelly Starrett.

He wants you to be a killer.

This book is his way of showing you exactly how to do that.

Everything that a human being ought to know in order to keep the body we all have - our walking meat vessels - at peak condition is compiled in this 400+ page hardcover book. Accompanied by a high picture per page count, even an incomprehensive simpleton will be lulled into it's pages.

Here is a book of everything people have been doing wrong with their bodies for years, written by an author who has solved the issues of human motion, stability and physical longevity, and solved it beyond a doubt. He wrote this book to provide everything you need to know in order to minimize and negate bad movement habits and maximize your kinetic potential, be you athlete or office worker

To give such a thorough book such a terse summary does not do it justice, but when compared to the simplicity of the evidence presented, accompanied by each man's innate ability of reason, perhaps it is fitting.

The narrative of the book is casual yet succinct, with certain technical jargon thrown in that become easy to identify with after the first chapter. Having seen interviews and a TON of Youtube vids with Mr. Starrett, both good and bad, I would attest the written tone is quite emblematic of the man's personality (Wathch his Joe Rogan podcast for a laugh)

The first half of the book goes over virtually all physical positions one finds onself in daily, be it athletic or sedentary, along with examples of the right ways and wrong ways to assume these positions. The second half and its chapters go over each body part and what sort of "human maintenance" you can perform on yourself in order to mitigate pain or assume a stronger position. In this section there is a wee bit of product placement from K-Star and co., but tactfully done (he mentions substituting his products with pedestrian materials e.g. rubber tire tube,) and not without reason.

I've been conscious of the Kelly Starrett camp since 2011, yet only in the last couple years have I started applying his theories and exercises. The first time it was in order to rehab a hamstring injury, the second was to perfect squatting mobility in regards to Olympic weightlifting movements such as the snatch and Clean and Jerk. Now I use his techniques everyday to stay limber and recover from daily weightlifting sessions and rugby trainings.

The consensus?

His shit works.

Before you even buy the book, buy a handful of lacrosse balls and a hard foam roller.

Using these object, start putting pressure on any spots on your body that make you sore. Not jolting pain sore, more like that-uncle-who-digs-his-fingers-into-your-scapula-and-traps sore. That's half the treatment right there.

If you take it slow, and read the first half of the book before the second - imagine that - and buy into what he professes, you will learn how to recognize your posture-destroying smartphone habits, which parts of your body are holding you back in the weight room, and how to maximize powerful posture well into your body's final years on this Earth. After the first read-through, treat it as a reference guide, going back to the techniques that apply to you and yours.

If you are an experienced athlete, you might comprehend his points easier than most.

The only thing I would have liked to seen him touch on would be sleeping orientation, firmness of bedding and that sort of ilk. But then again he has released a second edition at the end of 2015 and I only have the first.

My question is:

Have you guys found any better ways to optimize and achieve full range of motion, like the ROM that an untarnished 4 yr old might have?

How do you guys maintain limberness after hypertrophy and high-rep range workouts?

I know it's harder to get full ROM as you get older (I'm 22) but what do you boys do to recapture and maintain it?

I'm trying to spend time doing yoga but only off YT videos because I just can't deal with going to foo-foo yoga classes.

I have dated or fucked a decent amount of yoga/ hippy girls (do I have a type?) and I have learned that they all tend to be of an alternate mindset to me -leftist tatooed hippy dippy types with very little sexual morality- but I know there are some really pure-heared chicks that do this stuff too.

Kinda funny because as polar opposite as I am from them they all want to be cuffed/ dominated etc. Not even surprised anymore. I digress.

Let me know what you boys use to get flexible and injury free!

Cheers

-C

Post: #2

Great thread. I haven't read "Supple Leopard" yet but have heard it's highly recommended.
As for this part --

" How do you guys maintain limberness after hypertrophy and high-rep range workouts?"

If it's upper body your biggest issue is shoulder flexibility, so just make a habit of integrating your mobility shit in between sets.

For instance, if you're bench pressing, get off the bench in between sets and do dislocates with a towel or resistance band. A gym should have no shortage of either. Don't neglect behind the neck strict presses and cuban presses - even if you're just using light weights for sets of 12-20. The shoulder is a complicated joint that demands full range of motion, and all kinds of muscles could be fucking with your shoulder flexibility. It's possible to have good flexibility in the shoulders but tight pecs and biceps, so keep that in mind I guess.

Squatting is a little different since you should be going ATG anyway, so a well executed squat is essentially a weighted stretch, but you could work on limbering up your calves and ankles in between sets.

That also said, it's entirely possible to be able to squat ATG while having fairly abominable flexibility in the hamstrings and ankles.

Working on seated pike stretches looks gay but it wouldn't be dumb. Klokov is a big scary fucker and he does it.

Post: #3

Awesome book, the subject really changed the way I look at athletic progression and injury prevention. The key for me has been to practice or stretch the range of motion I'm interested in as much as possible.

So for squats I practice holding myself in "the hole" or ass to grass position. At first I could only do it for maybe 15 sec but now hold it for not less than 3 min. I do this several times a day and as part of my warm up/cool down. For shoulder mobility I like to just hang on my pull up bar, grip strength is a bonus. I also do a lot of movements with just the bar. Right now I'm actually doing a de load week so I can get my range of motion down with my new weightlifting shoes.

Post: #4

(05-26-2016 05:00 AM)Hades Wrote:  make a habit of integrating your mobility shit in between sets.

That's something I haven't done much of. I usually just focus on warm up and cool down... I like the concept though.

ATG is the only way to go!

Post: #5

(05-26-2016 11:03 AM)P Bateman Wrote:  for squats I practice holding myself in "the hole" or ass to grass position.

ATG pause squats are something I definitely incorporate. 3 min with a couple plates? Shiiieeet I don't know about that. Often I'll just hold onto a doorjamp or the squat rack unloaded and sit in that third world squat.

Weightlifting shoes are necessary to keep my pelvis from tucking under in the hole. Ankles got sprained as a kid and never taken care of...

Post: #6

(05-26-2016 05:34 PM)Condog Wrote:  

(05-26-2016 11:03 AM)P Bateman Wrote:  for squats I practice holding myself in "the hole" or ass to grass position.

ATG pause squats are something I definitely incorporate. 3 min with a couple plates? Shiiieeet I don't know about that. Often I'll just hold onto a doorjamp or the squat rack unloaded and sit in that third world squat.

Weightlifting shoes are necessary to keep my pelvis from tucking under in the hole. Ankles got sprained as a kid and never taken care of...

Oh no no no, did not mean to give that impression. Ill just perform and hold the range of motion like a stretch several times throughout the day, I find it keeps me more limber than if I don't. Ill do pause sets though with weight, typically only for 1-5 sec per rep.

Post: #7

Great topic. After years in the MMA/Martial Arts community, if there's ever something that has been missed on students, it's mobility and flexibility. In May Thai, when teaching kicks, a lot of people will write off a student's inability to kick very high simply to "bad technique" with the assumption that the kick height will get better simply by throwing more kicks. While it does help to some extent, directly attacking the inflexibility is much needed. I equate it to Olympic lifting. It's hard to do the lifts with good technique if you don't have the baseline strength to put the weight up in the first place, so you need to lower the weight and gain the extra strength first. Same with flexibility. Now, time is limited and I'm not saying that a half hour needs to be devoted to stretching each class, but it's important to emphasize stretching and foam rolling to students. There's a tax put on your body with this much physical exertion that needs to be addressed with both pre-and post-training therapeutic activities.

Post: #8

(05-28-2016 11:51 AM)nek Wrote:  Great topic. After years in the MMA/Martial Arts community, if there's ever something that has been missed on students, it's mobility and flexibility. In May Thai, when teaching kicks, a lot of people will write off a student's inability to kick very high simply to "bad technique" with the assumption that the kick height will get better simply by throwing more kicks. While it does help to some extent, directly attacking the inflexibility is much needed. I equate it to Olympic lifting. It's hard to do the lifts with good technique if you don't have the baseline strength to put the weight up in the first place, so you need to lower the weight and gain the extra strength first. Same with flexibility. Now, time is limited and I'm not saying that a half hour needs to be devoted to stretching each class, but it's important to emphasize stretching and foam rolling to students. There's a tax put on your body with this much physical exertion that needs to be addressed with both pre-and post-training therapeutic activities.

As my physio told me 24 months ago when I was going through rehab for a hamstring injury "There's no days off for committed athletes. Even rest days aren't rest days."

Post: #9

(05-26-2016 05:32 PM)Condog Wrote:  

(05-26-2016 05:00 AM)Hades Wrote:  make a habit of integrating your mobility shit in between sets.

That's something I haven't done much of. I usually just focus on warm up and cool down... I like the concept though.

From Bill Starr's old blog which I can only find on Wayback Machine - https://web.archive.org/web/201507282341...ng-up.html

Quote:You should do some stretching prior to your workout, in conjuncture with your total warmup routine. In addition, one of the very best times to incorporate stretching into your program is during the workout itself. The dead time between sets is the ideal time to stretch those muscles that you’re putting under stress. By doing some stretches for your hamstrings between sets of squats, for example, you enhance your flexibility and keep those muscles from shortening before you put weights on the bar. The same principle applies to doing some stretches for your shoulders between sets on the bench press or incline. The muscles are most conducive to being stretched during exercise, since they’re warm. Another good time to stretch the body is after the workout, when it’s flushed with blood, but I seldom see anyone doing that. When most people finish their last set, they leave the gym, in which case I recommend stretching later on that night. It may not be as productive as stretching immediately after the workout, but it’s a more realistic goal. If you take some time to stretch while you’re watching television after a tough session, you’ll greatly reduce your soreness the next day

My routine is 10+ minute warm-up (jogging and calisthenics), 2 minutes joint mobility, 2 minutes stretching, warm-up sets for all compound lifts, and a lot of stretching in between sets and after lifting. It may sound like a lot but as you get older it becomes much more necessary which Bill Starr also mentions in that article.

My experience has been that warming up, stretching, and compound lifts performed with correct form in a full range of motion has resulted in more athleticism, less discomfort/pain/injuries then when I was younger, and I have significantly reduced or eliminated several imbalances.

Post: #10

(05-26-2016 05:32 PM)Condog Wrote:  

(05-26-2016 05:00 AM)Hades Wrote:  make a habit of integrating your mobility shit in between sets.

That's something I haven't done much of. I usually just focus on warm up and cool down... I like the concept though.

ATG is the only way to go!

I am looking up reviews for Supple Leopard and I smell a rat. Why is it a 5 star book but numerous 3-star reviews are upvoted hundreds of times? Why the fuck are so many of the 5-star reviews posted BEFORE the book was released?

If "Supple Leopard" doesn't mention integrating mobility with lifting weights, then I suspect they are a bunch of physio theorycrafters. 99% of lifters are on their phone between sets, when they should instead be active and moving.

It's like human psychology. Nobody spends time to just sit around and stretch. If every wasted minute in a gym was spent doing mobility drills, whether weighted or unweighted, these physio-crackerjacks would be run out of business.

Does "Supple Leopard" go into any particular detail on how or why to warm up either? Does it explain rehabbing and prehabbing joints? Does it explain joint prep? I don't think this book is the real deal.

Post: #11

^ Kelly Starrett is quite well known especially in Crossfit. He is legit although I'm not a big fan of his. I remember him getting some criticism for all the 5-star reviews before the book came out but the book is supposed to be good. I've learned all my mobility stuff from youtube videos and yoga so I never followed Starrett much but he has a lot of stuff on youtube.

Post: #12

(05-28-2016 06:11 PM)Hades Wrote:  

(05-26-2016 05:32 PM)Condog Wrote:  

(05-26-2016 05:00 AM)Hades Wrote:  make a habit of integrating your mobility shit in between sets.

That's something I haven't done much of. I usually just focus on warm up and cool down... I like the concept though.

ATG is the only way to go!

I am looking up reviews for Supple Leopard and I smell a rat. Why is it a 5 star book but numerous 3-star reviews are upvoted hundreds of times? Why the fuck are so many of the 5-star reviews posted BEFORE the book was released?

If "Supple Leopard" doesn't mention integrating mobility with lifting weights, then I suspect they are a bunch of physio theorycrafters. 99% of lifters are on their phone between sets, when they should instead be active and moving.

It's like human psychology. Nobody spends time to just sit around and stretch. If every wasted minute in a gym was spent doing mobility drills, whether weighted or unweighted, these physio-crackerjacks would be run out of business.

Does "Supple Leopard" go into any particular detail on how or why to warm up either? Does it explain rehabbing and prehabbing joints? Does it explain joint prep? I don't think this book is the real deal.

I can't speak to whats going on with Amazon or any other review aggregates, but as someone who has followed the developmental arch of Kelly Starrett and his mobilitywod practices, theories, concepts, I have to back up his camp.

I have suffered through serious injuries, niggles, and everything in between. I pay a physio 80$ to basically employ Kelly Starret camp practices? Yeah right.
Just based on that, I support it.

Try different things out. See what works for you subjectively.

I know I have tight ankles from sprains as a kid. That's my baggage. Kelly Starrett-camp exercises have proven to be quite corrective for my issues.

He also doesn't advocate against staying mobile in between sets. In fact he supports it if you watch his videos. He just doesn't explicitly mention it in the book.

Supple Leopard provides more good to readers than negative.
No other books are decrying them or publishing contrarian opinions.
He is rich and famous for doing the right things it would appear.

I agree, the culture of lifters doing shit all between sits and sitting down is retarded.

Look at the 1980's Bulgarians. Coaching staff explicitly did not allow chairs in the gym. They were quite good at winning.

Starrett is also an advocate of the whole "Born to Run" approach, squatting not sitting etc. in and out of the gym.

Quite an interesting fellow and quite animated. Get's his point across quite succintly I think.

He also does address rehab and prehab for those people that need it. Additionally, how he deals with joint capsules is where he shines most of his light.

For some people who are gifted in mobility etc. maintaining mobility is much less time consuming then getting to that hypermobile point in the first place.

Post: #13

I'm just saying, what kind of coach doesn't understand that people who aren't in pain don't give a crap about mobility?

How good of a coach is he, really?

Post: #14

I don't think he is marketing to those people. If they are happy with pain free limited ROM, let them be.

I would rather go through pain to achieve a higher ROM in the long run.

What do you do for mobility?

Post: #15

(05-28-2016 06:11 PM)Hades Wrote:  

(05-26-2016 05:32 PM)Condog Wrote:  

(05-26-2016 05:00 AM)Hades Wrote:  make a habit of integrating your mobility shit in between sets.

That's something I haven't done much of. I usually just focus on warm up and cool down... I like the concept though.

ATG is the only way to go!

I am looking up reviews for Supple Leopard and I smell a rat. Why is it a 5 star book but numerous 3-star reviews are upvoted hundreds of times? Why the fuck are so many of the 5-star reviews posted BEFORE the book was released?

If "Supple Leopard" doesn't mention integrating mobility with lifting weights, then I suspect they are a bunch of physio theorycrafters. 99% of lifters are on their phone between sets, when they should instead be active and moving.

It's like human psychology. Nobody spends time to just sit around and stretch. If every wasted minute in a gym was spent doing mobility drills, whether weighted or unweighted, these physio-crackerjacks would be run out of business.

Does "Supple Leopard" go into any particular detail on how or why to warm up either? Does it explain rehabbing and prehabbing joints? Does it explain joint prep? I don't think this book is the real deal.

As birthday cat said, he's a major figure in the CrossFit cult, and they tend to ruthlessly support/promote their own. I shared your suspicions about the reviews, and I'm not a fan of his personality. That being said, my chiropractor buddy loaned me the book and I must admit that it had a lot of solid information.

I like his emphasis on mobility and recognizing/correcting imbalances. I ended up buying a lacrosse ball so that I could do some of the pressure point exercises on my back. They seemed to help, so I can't really hate on his methods. Like OP said, you can do an awful lot with a lacrosse ball and a foam roller. I don't roll as much as I should, but the stuff works.

Having said all of that, I probably wouldn't spend the money on the book because it's pretty expensive. You can learn about most, if not all of what you need to know on YouTube or other sites.

As far as stretching goes, there seems to be a ton of conflicting studies out there on which types of stretching you should do and when. I always try to warm up and then employ some dynamic stretches before lifting. Then I do a warmup set for compounds just to focus on form. Between sets I'll often utilize dynamic stretching just to keep the blood moving and to prevent the muscles from remaining in a shortened state. I've read different opinions on this, but stretching a little bit between sets feels good to me so I do it. Then I usually get into the deeper static stretches after working out. I find it to be particularly useful after a leg workout as it seems to really help with my recovery.

I actually think I might start incorporating yoga into the mix on my off days. In the past I've had good results from following along to YouTube videos, and I really need to do more to counteract the fact that I spend so much time sitting in front of a computer.

Post: #16

(05-28-2016 05:59 PM)birthday cat Wrote:  From Bill Starr's old blog which I can only find on Wayback Machine - https://web.archive.org/web/201507282341...ng-up.html

Good link. Great read. Thanks for supplying that.

(05-28-2016 05:59 PM)birthday cat Wrote:  My routine is 10+ minute warm-up (jogging and calisthenics), 2 minutes joint mobility, 2 minutes stretching, warm-up sets for all compound lifts, and a lot of stretching in between sets and after lifting. It may sound like a lot but as you get older it becomes much more necessary which Bill Starr also mentions in that article.

My experience has been that warming up, stretching, and compound lifts performed with correct form in a full range of motion has resulted in more athleticism, less discomfort/pain/injuries then when I was younger, and I have significantly reduced or eliminated several imbalances.

That actually doesn't sound like too much if the goal is say, being able to do the splits. It sounds like what I do, but I'm making slow progress.

I think of gymnasts and dancers and cirque de soleil performers and see how much they train. That is one end of the spectrum.

The other end is sitting down and doing nothing.

I wonder if there is a ceiling you can hit when you're trying to gain flexibility and mobilization of end range. Is there only so much change your tissues can take?

Post: #17

(05-29-2016 05:29 PM)Condog Wrote:  I wonder if there is a ceiling you can hit when you're trying to gain flexibility and mobilization of end range. Is there only so much change your tissues can take?

Coach Sommer is taking 50 year old men with battered joints and a lifetime of pain and slowly coaching them into limber, pain-free athletes.

There IS a point where the damage to joints, tissues, and bones is permanent BUT you owe it to yourself to read up on his shit. It really is next level.

I've been trying to get Mike Cernovich to interview Coach Sommer on his podcast for several weeks now. Tim Ferriss did it recently but Mike is a no-bullshit guy.

Post: #18

Any good good stretches and releases for the feet (I have plantar fasciitis), and hips? Does this Coach Sommer have a book?

Post: #19

(05-30-2016 11:00 AM)kbell Wrote:  Any good good stretches and releases for the feet (I have plantar fasciitis), and hips? Does this Coach Sommer have a book?

These two links cover joint mobility and dynamic stretching for warming up. The second link is a video demonstration of most of the movements from the articles. A lot of info on hips.
http://catalystathletics.com/article/127...a-Warm-up/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhHc7FbSUiY

Hip, ankle, and feet stretches for squats. First video is Pendlay. Second is Elliott Hulse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwLM5n-rYmA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-6W2B7vS28

A couple other hip stretches you could look up are 90 90 stretch and yoga pigeon pose.