Post: #26

(08-21-2008 09:23 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Correct, the university does not care about you and your future success, public and private. Just like a corporation, it's there to serve the executives first, shareholders second (i guess not in this case), and from there people at the top until you get to the workers/students. While I don't regret my college education, it burns every month i have to pay my student loans for a major that i am not using.

In the Washington Post the other day there was a story about the rising cost of textbooks. News like that just distracts people from the real issue: why isn't higher education free? It's free in many western europe countries. They have health care too. But like george carlin said, the owners of this country don't want a well-educated populace.

Our taxes go for wars and shitty public schools.

It didn't use to be like this.

In my area there is a very good school for engineering and science. At the school the average time the college president was in office over a decade, some almost two. In the same era (mid 1980s) the Dean of Students knew the academic record, names and recognized by face EVERY SINGLE STUDENT currently attending the school. He made it his job to know everyone and keep up to date on how they were doing academically.

The view back then is that it was very important for everyone to graduate and be employable after graduation since it reflected on the school how well people did after graduation. There was also the hope and expectation that students would contribute to the school after graduation and help future generations just like they were helped when they were students. (The current generation 'paid' or returned the help they got from the prior generation by helping a future generation when the time came.)

While I did not attend that school, I do remember at times spending hours in the library just browsing what was available on the shelves and wishing that I had enough time to read more of what was there. I also wondered why no one in the surrounding area (people not students) ever walked into the library there. The library was open to the public. If anyone wanted to take out a book, but was not a student, they could request an inter library loan through the municipal library system and get it within a few days.

When I mentioned this to some of the people I knew, they were like, "Ohh, that's creepy, why would you hang around a library?"

A few times I tried to explain how that library had some of the wisdom of the ages within its walls, and we were lucky to be within walking distance of such a facility, but after a while realized that if I needed to explain such as a reason then the people would not understand.

Of course, today we know that even with things like Amazon Prime and the ability to 'check out' electronically one book at a time from a vast selection of books, many of those people may not even read one book per year. (Its true, most surveys shows that about half of the population do not even read one book per year, such is the state that the affairs of the republic have fallen to.)

Post: #27

Librarys are also a great place to pick up shy girls for all the introverts out there. Sexy librarian look gets me every time.

Post: #28

The key really is picking the right major and school. Unless you get into an Ivy league or get a big time scholarship go to a big state school. tax advantaged savings plans can also be a big benefit for parents thinking ahead.

Plenty of engineers at my large state school started out with 70k+ salaries. Going to a community college for 2 years is also a great option if money is tight.

Post: #29

I would say that multiple issues are part of this and need to be addressed separately.

One is, how much and what kind of education is necessary? General education vs. vocational training. The relationship between cost of education vs earning potential, and whether universities are irresponsible, negligent, or downright fraudulent in encouraging people to go into majors that won't even allow them to pay student loans. (Or force them into a career of supporting leftist politics as their only viable earning option.)

Another issue is the fact that somewhere back around the 1960s-1970s (for the USA anyway) all university level education started being subverted by the left, who have more and more turned universities into indoctrination centers for their own purposes. That's a huge problem aside from the other questions above. You shouldn't color your overall opinion on the benefit of higher education based on the assumption that it has to be a leftist indoctrination. (Though understandably the current state is going to impact current practical decisions.)

I will opine this much ... I don't think that as a whole conservatives can continue to ignore the social sciences and arts and allow liberals to own those. I think maybe people on the right are starting to wake up to how much damage has been done by laughing off that stuff in the past. There used to be a place for studying politics, economics, history, sociology, journalism etc, without being a leftist globalist zealot. (I wonder how many people in the last 15-20 years have been able to study western civ taught in a way that wasn't hostile to western civilization?) Change won't happen easily and needs deliberate support from people with power (Trump administration) and deep pockets (maybe some people who donate to PACs and such will realize that a longer term investment is needed ...)

Post: #30

(02-19-2017 04:02 AM)dicknixon72 Wrote:  In the United States, college is a way to emancipate one's self from the dreaded 'living at home.' A combination of deteriorating traditional family values and the general ineptitude and apathy of parents in actually fostering development and raising their own children creates this wholly unnecessary need to get the fuck out of the house the minute you turn 18 years of age.

Instead of being a parent for a mere microsecond longer, parents are more than happy to immediately pack up their child in a $2500 Civic and send them hundreds of miles away so that the educational bureaucratic/industrial complex may continue to raise their children for them.

The product of which, more often than not, is four years of continued indoctrination to replace free thought, a generalized degree in a field already overcrowded with near-identical graduates with zero experience all willing to work for nearly free or completely free (internships) to others' financial benefit, and a debt load in the double if not triple-digits and little else to show for it.

A trade school or well-sorted community/junior college is the 'efficient' tertiary educational choice - tailored around what they can offer you, affordably-priced with flexible hours, a de-emphasis on the grandiose facilities and trappings of the big schools, and more than likely staffed by faculty and professors that not only work/worked in the field they teach, but have lived in the immediate metro area, meaning actual networking opportunities.

That's a personal alternative.

In the bigger picture, a larger shift needs to occur where structure is brought back to families and children are welcome to stay at home (within reason) until they are actually capable of being adults, rather than spending 4-6 years on-campus and returning to live in their old room but now with $80k in accumulated student debt and ZERO marketable skills.

Yeah, you are getting at another big part of the problem, which is paying big bucks (and taking on debt) allegedly for education (which sounds like a good investment) when a big part of what is really being paid for is just the cost of having a kid who can't yet support themselves live away from home. It all gets rolled together in the total numbers a lot of times, but it isn't strictly necessary to live away from home in order to take Econ 101. Maybe some people think that living at college is an important experience in itself (because it's easier for their daughters to transform into drunken sluts then into blue-haired feminist crazies that way) ... but at least be more honest about how much of the cost is for which of those things.

Post: #31

(08-21-2008 09:23 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Correct, the university does not care about you and your future success, public and private. Just like a corporation, it's there to serve the executives first, shareholders second (i guess not in this case), and from there people at the top until you get to the workers/students. While I don't regret my college education, it burns every month i have to pay my student loans for a major that i am not using.

In the Washington Post the other day there was a story about the rising cost of textbooks. News like that just distracts people from the real issue: why isn't higher education free? It's free in many western europe countries. They have health care too. But like george carlin said, the owners of this country don't want a well-educated populace.

Our taxes go for wars and shitty public schools.

Wow, Roosh's opinion in 2008. I wonder if you still want free higher education in the US like we have in Europe? Of course it's not free, it's a loan students have to pay back once they start earning 15 or 20k a year.

Post: #32

The whole model of going off to some intimidating looking buildings, going through some rituals, spending 4 years getting some doled out knowledge a few hours a day (spread out over so called "semesters" which are a fancy word for extreme slow waste of time) is made obsolete by technology.

The system is dominated by a false premise which is to achieve equal results from unequal causes. Unmotivated students are dragged through to keep the customer base up, and are showered with a false expectation that they earn equal to the truly motivated and knowledge hungry who also find themselves in these ridiculous universities.

Un-intelligent students are given falsely dumbed down coursework and "graduate" with soft degrees that they do not understand. They are educated just to the level of filling out one or two job applications and filling out food stamp and Section 8 applications as well, since its tough out there. The better of the unintelligent (now degreed) get recycled back into University jobs or work the other end of the welfare counter. Wouldn't the system and the individual have been better served though acquisition of a valuable trade skill? This would imply that people have to support themselves, an increasingly unfamiliar and unpopular idea in the Obama era.

The idea that you have to pay the current costs for this is absurd, can can only be so because of government involvement in the student loan industry and in education. While I do not support calls for it to be free (unless voluntary and no tax or state involvement) if the government were to completely step out it would have to innovate. For starters, student loan debt should be bankrupt-able. Then lenders would have to evaluate the situation just like they do a credit card user. Now as it stands they don't. If you have a pulse and want to borrow insane amounts of money to attend truly shitty schools no problem. The gov has our back. They can make risky loans to poor students who want to attend state schools and not improve their prospects for repayment. Why? Because the government is involved. Lest I forget these institutions are filled with Marxist propaganda precisely because they are dependent on it and would die in a free market.

Even in the subject matter of LAW, which is the University apologist's favorite, there is a flaw. They love to flaunt the study of law and don't mind its even more extreme indebtedness to the student. But I believe it is immoral to require a person to use a state sanctioned lawyer. Any person should be able to elect any other person to be his "lawyer" or attorney in fact, as a matter of freedom. The lawyer education system is just another cartel. If I want to use a self studied lawyer I should be able to. What right does the state have to tell me otherwise?

Are there exceptions to a university having value? Of course. I am sure that there are some fantastic science or other cutting edge programs somewhere, but the bulk of students, classes and programs have about as much value as television.

The real product of the current university system is the "degree" and the debt. NOT education. If you want to learn, go to youtube, buy books, find a mentor, get a job. If you want education devote yourself to a long term consistent reading and listening. If you want a really cool job start your own venture.

But borrow $100,000 or more to get a $22 an hour job instead of a $18 an hour job? You have to be kidding me.

Post: #33

Thread starts in 2008, almost ten years later statistics continue to prove it wrong. College grads make much more OVERALL. You can reason from the exceptions like a woman if you want.

Also, notice that those who argue against value of education use pre-empirical, rationalistic reasoning. No charts, no figures. Weak analysis. Cherry picking at best.

Also agree with Roosh's 2008 view that education is about the best investment a country could make in their future.

Perhaps more important, the unemployment rate between degree holders and others remains large. Being unemployed unless it's because you're rich makes one a social pariah.

College grads versus no college, unemployment is about half.

No offense to those less educated/fortunate; but for myself someone immediately gains significant credibility if they have a college degree. Sure Jobs, Zuckerman and Gates didn't/don't have degrees. Those types of people are called exceptions.

But people don't have time to find out if you're a unicorn unless you make a name some other way.

I'm sure a lot of educated people here would say the same thing but they're too diplomatic.

College grads were able to show up and do what they were told for four years -- a lot of people can't do that. They're too smart to get a college degree.

Back to another day of doing whatever the fuck I want. Because of education-- not working for someone else today. My time is my own.

Post: #34

It's true that college grads might make more money, but that doesn't mean that college itself is going to give you a good education. I went to a top university and I can honestly say that I got a better education at my high school. I also majored in bull shit, but still managed to get a full time offer upon graduation. Most of my classes were a joke, I was forced to take numerous GE's that I didn't give a shit about, overall my college experience costed about 100,000 dollars more than it was genuinely worth to me. My best friends are still my friends from high school, everything worthwhile that I did or learned I accomplished independently, with the exception of a few good teachers college was a fairly worthless experience. Playing sports and fucking girls were the best things I got out of going to college, but I could have done those things without going in the first place.

A degree is basically a merit badge, it says very little about your actual intelligence. Anyone can go to a community college, transfer to UC Berkeley, and get a degree in History or English. So-called top schools aren't really "top" in any way except for their snob value among certain companies. The best thing anyone can do for their career, regardless of where they go to school, is to jump on internships during college and be proactive about getting a job upon graduating. Going to right job fair ensured that I secured employment out of college, despite majoring in a liberal art and fucking off for most of my time in school.

God bless them, my parents paid for my entire education. If I hadn't had this luxury, I would have joined the military, done my four years there, then used the Veteran Act to cover my education. Taking out loans to major in anything except Computer Science or an Engineering Field is an atrocious and unneccesary move.

Post: #35

If you're paying full retail price for college, you're a sucker and have no business going. I got several scholarships so my cost wasn't that high...plus I worked full time after my freshman year (and still managed to graduate with a 4.0 major GPA, be active in my fraternity and date around).

My parents were willing to pay for everything but a little effort saved over $20k a year.

(02-19-2017 05:07 PM)Agastya Wrote:  If I hadn't had this luxury, I would have joined the military, done my four years there, then used the Veteran Act to cover my education. Taking out loans to major in anything except Computer Science or an Engineering Field is an atrocious and unneccesary move.

My friend did that and it wasn't too difficult, but most people going to college just aren't motivated enough to get a scholarship or do sweat equity in the military. They want it handed to them and take the easy route of getting a loan - then complain when the pesky lender wants to be repaid.

Post: #36

Depends on what colleges you go to.

I did junior college and state school,. 4 years of tuition total was 15,000, and grants covered nearly all of it.

I made 50,000 a year within a year of graduating, versus 30,000 before I had my degree

Post: #37

It isn't a sufficient defense of the current state of things to demonstrate that people with a college degree do better than people without.

It needs to be broken out by types of degrees and majors, and then look at how those people do, compared to the cost.

It would also be interesting to compare how people with different logical/math/verbal aptitudes do with or without different types of education. All people are not equal before or after the education. Higher IQ people would be more likely to get a higher education, but how much of their result is value-add from the education vs. their natural ability? (And how much of that difference is hiring bias because of the status from the degree vs. actual difference in their ability to do the job?)

Also, the overall comparison between college-educated vs non-college-educated doesn't account for the "it's not what you know, it's who you know" factor. Connections matter more than education or knowledge or experience or performance. It's a sad but true fact. People from a wealthier, more well-connected family are more likely to go to college. People from a wealthier, more well-connected family are also more likely to get a better job. There is more to it than just the education leading directly to the job.

(BTW, go talk to some white guy who grew up in a poor mining community in West Virginia or on a farm in Oklahoma about "white privilege" and how white males have the world handed to them from birth. People who actually believe that crap are usually ones who grew up in a wealthy family and benefited from connections and don't realize that even if all of their connections are white, all of those benefits aren't a direct result of being white.)

Post: #38

Let Schiff redpill some of you on the true cost of college





Be warned, Schiff is very red pilled when it comes to college.

Post: #39

(02-19-2017 12:27 PM)eradicator Wrote:  Eh, it isn't so bad if you go to community college for 2 years, get your grades up really high, and then switch to a four year school with the aid of grants from your good grades in high school and college. (Even better if you can get a degree in a field you enjoy and can make money in, STEM or otherwise)

Trade school is a great option as well.

I'll second this. You can save yourself thousands of dollars by taking care of your first two years of school at a community college, then switching to a four-year school. Most 4-year schools automatically accept community college transfers if your grades are fine. Often, they won't even ask you for an SAT or ACT score.

I also suggest joining a fraternity in college. I was one of those who ridiculed and mocked fraternities when I was in school, but looking back at it years later now I realize I lost out on some invaluable networking connections and professional social circles by not doing so.

Post: #40

(02-21-2017 10:04 AM)C-Note Wrote:  

(02-19-2017 12:27 PM)eradicator Wrote:  Eh, it isn't so bad if you go to community college for 2 years, get your grades up really high, and then switch to a four year school with the aid of grants from your good grades in high school and college. (Even better if you can get a degree in a field you enjoy and can make money in, STEM or otherwise)

Trade school is a great option as well.

I'll second this. You can save yourself thousands of dollars by taking care of your first two years of school at a community college, then switching to a four-year school. Most 4-year schools automatically accept community college transfers if your grades are fine. Often, they won't even ask you for an SAT or ACT score.

I also suggest joining a fraternity in college. I was one of those who ridiculed and mocked fraternities when I was in school, but looking back at it years later now I realize I lost out on some invaluable networking connections and professional social circles by not doing so.

you can also do community college while in high school - google "dual enrollment" or Move on When Ready. Basically you take a college class and it counts for both your college degree AND your high school diploma. sometimes one semester of a college class will count as a full year of a high school class. Similar concept to AP (Advanced Placement) but you physically take the class at the college and you don't have to take a single national test to qualify - its the normal grading of the college with exams, etc.

as for fraternities, yeah, if you get in a good one its gold. You have instant pre-selection, access to numerous parties, academic resources, travel, etc.

Post: #41

(02-21-2017 01:02 PM)Hypno Wrote:  as for fraternities, yeah, if you get in a good one its gold. You have instant pre-selection, access to numerous parties, academic resources, travel, etc.

Being in the right fraternity makes approaching the top tier sorority women effortless. It was so easy that my approach game was weak as hell when I got into the real world.

Post: #42

(02-21-2017 01:33 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 01:02 PM)Hypno Wrote:  as for fraternities, yeah, if you get in a good one its gold. You have instant pre-selection, access to numerous parties, academic resources, travel, etc.

Being in the right fraternity makes approaching the top tier sorority women effortless. It was so easy that my approach game was weak as hell when I got into the real world.

Could you elaborate on how much easier banging sorority women was for you as someone in a top frat? I am curious for scientific purposes. I was never in a fraternity, relied entirely on cold approach. I banged plenty of girls but the quality was not as good as it could have been, especially after I transferred to a school with a stronger Greek scene.

Post: #43

(02-22-2017 01:01 AM)Agastya Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 01:33 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 01:02 PM)Hypno Wrote:  as for fraternities, yeah, if you get in a good one its gold. You have instant pre-selection, access to numerous parties, academic resources, travel, etc.

Being in the right fraternity makes approaching the top tier sorority women effortless. It was so easy that my approach game was weak as hell when I got into the real world.

Could you elaborate on how much easier banging sorority women was for you as someone in a top frat? I am curious for scientific purposes. I was never in a fraternity, relied entirely on cold approach. I banged plenty of girls but the quality was not as good as it could have been, especially after I transferred to a school with a stronger Greek scene.

In my college experience, any sorority girl I talked to would be receptive - at first at least. Things progress well if I didn't make a major misstep. They would even approach me in many cases. As Hypno said, you pass the pre-selection phase without having to dream up a good approach.

The same wasn't the case if I was away from the campus scene or after graduation. The only difference was that they knew I was a member of a top tier frat...and it mattered at my school. Away from that setting people probably thought I was weird for wearing letters.

Post: #44

(02-22-2017 01:21 AM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  

(02-22-2017 01:01 AM)Agastya Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 01:33 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 01:02 PM)Hypno Wrote:  as for fraternities, yeah, if you get in a good one its gold. You have instant pre-selection, access to numerous parties, academic resources, travel, etc.

Being in the right fraternity makes approaching the top tier sorority women effortless. It was so easy that my approach game was weak as hell when I got into the real world.

Could you elaborate on how much easier banging sorority women was for you as someone in a top frat? I am curious for scientific purposes. I was never in a fraternity, relied entirely on cold approach. I banged plenty of girls but the quality was not as good as it could have been, especially after I transferred to a school with a stronger Greek scene.

In my college experience, any sorority girl I talked to would be receptive - at first at least. Things progress well if I didn't make a major misstep. They would even approach me in many cases. As Hypno said, you pass the pre-selection phase without having to dream up a good approach.

The same wasn't the case if I was away from the campus scene or after graduation. The only difference was that they knew I was a member of a top tier frat...and it mattered at my school. Away from that setting people probably thought I was weird for wearing letters.

Do you feel like it significantly boosted the number and quality of girls that you actually banged? I am curious as I never really had much exposure to the Greek scene, I wonder how much it actually helps at a heavily Greek school. I went to one university with a generally good party scene, being Greek helped but everyone else did fine too. At the more Greek school that I currently am at, I honestly have no clue who gets laid the most. I wonder how much easier it would be if I had been able to join a good fraternity. (I am about to graduate for reference)

Post: #45

(02-22-2017 01:57 AM)Agastya Wrote:  

(02-22-2017 01:21 AM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  

(02-22-2017 01:01 AM)Agastya Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 01:33 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 01:02 PM)Hypno Wrote:  as for fraternities, yeah, if you get in a good one its gold. You have instant pre-selection, access to numerous parties, academic resources, travel, etc.

Being in the right fraternity makes approaching the top tier sorority women effortless. It was so easy that my approach game was weak as hell when I got into the real world.

Could you elaborate on how much easier banging sorority women was for you as someone in a top frat? I am curious for scientific purposes. I was never in a fraternity, relied entirely on cold approach. I banged plenty of girls but the quality was not as good as it could have been, especially after I transferred to a school with a stronger Greek scene.

In my college experience, any sorority girl I talked to would be receptive - at first at least. Things progress well if I didn't make a major misstep. They would even approach me in many cases. As Hypno said, you pass the pre-selection phase without having to dream up a good approach.

The same wasn't the case if I was away from the campus scene or after graduation. The only difference was that they knew I was a member of a top tier frat...and it mattered at my school. Away from that setting people probably thought I was weird for wearing letters.

Do you feel like it significantly boosted the number and quality of girls that you actually banged? I am curious as I never really had much exposure to the Greek scene, I wonder how much it actually helps at a heavily Greek school. I went to one university with a generally good party scene, being Greek helped but everyone else did fine too. At the more Greek school that I currently am at, I honestly have no clue who gets laid the most. I wonder how much easier it would be if I had been able to join a good fraternity. (I am about to graduate for reference)

Easily. Both number and quality were higher. But I have to confess, I ended up with a girlfriend through a significant part of college so my number isn't as high as it could have been.

Post: #46

Honestly, it sounds like the dream -- have a fairly easy time banging tons of hot girls.... without putting in too much effort. The alternative is either hitting up house parties (not viable if the party scene is focused on Greek Life) or simply daygaming. While it's possible to pull through both of these methods, it's definitely a lot fucking harder.

Post: #47

The original point that college is a rip off is true for most people. Don't be most people. Get internships by any means necessary (proof that your classes are useless).

General studies are a joke, but most schools require them for the first two years. I had to take classes such as "The Global Experience" (required at my school for all incoming freshman). In these classes you will learn about female circumcision and write 10 page papers on "social epistemologies". The professor will make six figures.

Post: #48

Yes, you have to accurately assess your probability of becoming what you might want to be (in my case MD) ... I probably got lucky, but college didn't hurt me in that endeavor. For most people this is irrelevant and increasingly, the American Dream is promoted but the reality is that doors are closing as fast as ever

Post: #49

College isn't such a terrible deal if you go to a public school and receive a substantial scholarship. For the life of me, I will never understand why anyone pays sticker price for a private school; the very epitome of pissing away money.

Anyway, to see the value in college, you need to lose the mentality that it's about the classroom education. The information you learn in class is 100% worthless, and even if it was somewhat practical, you wouldn't be able to retain it long enough to make use of it. Instead, view college as serving the following purposes:

-A rubber stamp to demonstrate to potential employers (assuming you had a decent GPA) that you're intelligent, responsible, dedicated, and have some aptitude in the relevant field. Sure you could self-study some field and put that on your resume, but how many employers in this job market are going to take a chance on the guy without a degree? As another poster mentioned, degree = instant credibility.

-A transition to adulthood. No parents to ride your ass and hold your hand through everything, no high school cliques to lean on; you're finally forced to be independent and take responsibility, in an environment where outrageous behavior and idiotic mistakes are viewed as a natural part of the growth process, rather than reason to destroy you (though recently SJWs have been doing their best to ruin this aspect).

-A memorable life experience. College-aged girls are in their absolute prime, and at most schools, they outnumber the men. Also, nowhere in the world is it easier to find peers with similar interests and make new friends. The energetic, hyper-social college lifestyle is just one of those things people should experience for its own sake.

I'm not arguing that the current higher education system is remotely efficient, and if it were up to me, I'd gut the whole thing and redesign it completely. But when faced with the binary decision of go vs. not go, I'd say it's worth it for most decent students, provided you go public and get some sort of financial aid.