Post: #1

Do you believe in this?

From Wikipedia:

"The phrase 'No good deed goes unpunished' is a sardonic commentary on the frequency with which acts of kindness backfire on those who offer them. In other words, those who help others are doomed to suffer as a result of their being helpful.

It has been attributed to several luminaries, including Billy Wilder,banker Andrew W. Mellon, and Oscar Wilde. The phrase is featured prominently in the song No Good Deed from the hit Broadway musical Wicked."

Post: #2

Yes....agree 100%
Especially in regard to doing good deeds for females you want to bang in advance of any intimacy.

It's one of the things I learned the hard way over many years, and one of the main things that brought me to the red pill and game.

Never, ever do a good deed for a bangable girl until she has pleased you first in some intimate way.

From Heartiste (Roissy)

Quote:When she has displeased you, punish swiftly, but when she has done you right, reward slowly. Reward her good behavior intermittently and unpredictably and she will never tire of working hard to please you.

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/the-sixt...s-of-poon/

Post: #3

Not believing this is like saying there is no such thing as the friend zone.

Post: #4

Disagree, it is too broad. While generally it is true (due to the selfish nature of all of us), it is not always the case. I think it encourages a defeatist attitude.

My attitude is, "If I can help, I will." I give everyone one chance. If I show someone a good deed and it is taken for granted, that person is out of my life for good.

Above basic courtesy, I generally don't show good deeds to women unless they've earned them, as it's often perceived as weakness. As such, a woman's first chance does not begin until she has done something for me first.

I generally always show good deeds to other men, as they're often rewarded and reciprocated. I have had many rewarding friendships that have begun this way. Of course there is some risk involved, but everyone has to weight the risk/reward and determine what's best for them.

Post: #5

^yeah, I think there are a variety of situations where this may not be so clear cut.

I've been reading about starting a business for a while. One of the ideas that always comes up is that sometimes you have to give in order to receive. Makes sense to me. Why would someone who doesn't know me help me if I haven't helped him first? The best example of this is paying for a service before you can access it.

Post: #6

Helping a man you don't know is something totally different to helping a woman.

I have no problem helping a man....provided he is already trying to do something on his own, or is already putting in some effort all by himself.

I don't help lazy men or men who have "given up".

I help those men who are already trying to help themselves.

Post: #7

Yea, from personal experience and also others. The first story that came to mind was one that my barber told me.

In the middle of a huge rainstorm, he noticed a guy had gotten stuck in a ditch outside his house. My barber is a good guy so he went down in his truck to help tow him out. While he was pulling him out pedal to the floor, a car wizzed by and sped through a huge amount of standing water. The pool of water somehow sloshed into his air-intake and fucked up his engine.

Post: #8

Help someone you've no connection with and they assume an ulterior motive. People resent you when they feel you keep them in the dark.

If you must be chivalrous ask for a minor favor in return to soothe the fears of the mind.

Post: #9

elimanning, that is a very Chinese thing to say. Have you been there long?

Let me remind you that in the west, not doing good deeds is seen as the mark of a barbarian and will get you shunned in polite society. In essence, avoiding a good deed where possible is seen as disrupting the benevolent harmony of society. On the other hand, doing too much is gauche. It is correct to hold the door open if someone is carrying boxes. On the other hand, if you had boxes which you knew that you would not be able to carry in without help, you should have brought help. If you could have, with some trouble, carried them in, but when you arrive someone happens to be around to help you, then everything is working harmoniously. Good deeds should not be assumed, they should be opportune.

It is in Aesop's fables here, here, and here.

Moreover, in europe until very recently there were laws requiring good deeds to be done. Most prestigious organizations (such as NHS) require public service. In the USA, there are some jurisdictions where lawyers are legally obligated to do pro bono work.

Here are some examples of unpunished good deeds:

Post: #10

Huge Blind Spot we are missing here:

Legal Liability:

Good Samaritan Laws on the books protect emergency first responders, fire, police, ambulance, etc.

However, given the overly litigious society we live in, you risk getting entangled in something beyond your control by simply being a private citizen providing help.....

Be very careful to whom and how you provide "Help" to others.

Post: #11

If you do a good deed, ask them to return the favour. And soon.

If someone does a good deed for you, repay them kind. And soon.

I have learnt this the hard way, especially with family. I've asked for a favour to be returned down the track only to be met with resentment and aggressiveness. Apparently they did something for me back when I was a kid or something so I'm just repaying them

Don't bother sharing your expertise with random members of the public as they would prefer to go on with their own retarded plot line then actually do something right.

Post: #12

This doesn't apply to your male friends, family or girls who have proven their loyalty to you.

Post: #13

Quote: 'No good deed goes unpunished'

Its cynical saying. For every good thing you do, there is bad thing going to happen. I view my deeds in the lens of Newton's Third law. As the popular paraphrase goes: "For every reaction there is equal or opposite reaction." When I perform an act of kindness, all I want in return is simple act of kindness or thank you. To continue my physics explanation, once you add in other variables into a reaction, the response will be different; ranging from exaggeration of original action or opposite reaction expected. Human interaction is not a simple reaction of cause and effect. Our action can be coloured by the person's mood, cultural norms, or actions done by other people. A real world example is buying a drink for a girl.

If I buy a drink for girl who is good friend, my act of kindness is view as a friendly gesture. There ulterior motive in my action. Assume no other issues colouring my action, there is no reason for a girl's hamster to run around and create bullshit reasoning for me buying her a drink. If I a buy drink for a girl that does not know me, her hamster will provide numerous reasoning that makes my simple act of kindness into something else. We can take this unknown thinking in follow (Que valley girl accent)
A.) "He buying me a drink to get me drunk and take advantage of me when I'm drunk. "
B.) "He perfect guy to buy me drinks all night, if I just lead him on."
C.) Add in what other bullshit reaction you get from girl from your experience

To ensure your good deed doesn't earn a punishment, make sure your intentions are clear and you action will not cause a clusterfuck.

Post: #14

(04-06-2016 10:22 AM)storm Wrote:  elimanning, that is a very Chinese thing to say. Have you been there long?

Let me remind you that in the west, not doing good deeds is seen as the mark of a barbarian and will get you shunned in polite society.

You have a good point. I am in China, it gets to you, 20 million people in a place the size of Delaware. Its totally survival mode here, where people exploit each other for monetary gains. Its hard for me to not sympathize and have empathy for the migrant workers.

China is a place that the strong will do what they will, and the weak will have to endure.

I try to remain positive and help people, because thats who I am, I also know it is a sign of weakness.

Post: #15

Hey guys, I would like to hear your response if a girl asks for simple favours. Something annoying happened and would be good to hear your opinions. This is the scenario.

She wants you to open the door for her friend. She is cooking and lets assume she has her hands full. You know her and you do it for her. No word of thanks from her.

Assume that she is your housemate.

So what would you say to her before and after opening that door to maintain your frame and stop her from taking advantage in the future while not being too condescending.

A general response to all such petty requests would be good.

Thanks men.

Post: #16

(04-04-2016 10:59 AM)elimanning Wrote:  Do you believe in this?

From Wikipedia:

"The phrase 'No good deed goes unpunished' is a sardonic commentary on the frequency with which acts of kindness backfire on those who offer them. In other words, those who help others are doomed to suffer as a result of their being helpful.

It has been attributed to several luminaries, including Billy Wilder,banker Andrew W. Mellon, and Oscar Wilde. The phrase is featured prominently in the song No Good Deed from the hit Broadway musical Wicked."

I find this to only be true when one expects something in return.

Doing a good deed with an expectation is a recipe for disappointment.

Post: #17

Generally speaking I'll approach situations as such.

Person I know: Help them out.
Nonfuckable community member: Help them out.
Non-bangable non-community member: Tough shit (or minor help such as getting the door for someone with a large parcel).
Bangable anybody: Help them out, but make sure your body language indicates how disgusted you are with their inability to handle their own shit. I've found that if you help out a woman and smile while you're doing it then she treats you like a dog (which is what you are) but if you act like her problems are a huge fucking annoyance then for some reason they always seem to display more sexual attraction.

Could be that it's just a business transaction mentality. If you look happy to help then they're going to assume that they're the one doing you a favour by allowing you to bask in their glow while you change their flat tyre (or whatever). Alternately if they're well aware that you're wasting your valuable time on their bullshit then they're more inclined to feel indebted to you.

Post: #18

"There are no absolutes, except for this one."

Post: #19

(04-06-2016 07:10 PM)Dantes Wrote:  This doesn't apply to your male friends, family or girls who have proven their loyalty to you.

Etch this indelibly into your brain gents. I just lost an awesome chick I've been seeing for a while because i was hard-headed and assumed I would be heading into beta territory if I assisted her (long story).

Instead, I obliterated any feelings she had for me by demonstrating that I wasn't there to support her in her time of need, as I was too busy lecturing her with a righteous attitude without showing any compassion.

Post: #20

(05-07-2016 07:10 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  Hey guys, I would like to hear your response if a girl asks for simple favours. Something annoying happened and would be good to hear your opinions. This is the scenario.

She wants you to open the door for her friend. She is cooking and lets assume she has her hands full. You know her and you do it for her. No word of thanks from her.

Assume that she is your housemate.

So what would you say to her before and after opening that door to maintain your frame and stop her from taking advantage in the future while not being too condescending.

A general response to all such petty requests would be good.

My 2 cents:

The alpha thing to do here is not to share a living space with some random female in the first place.

It sounds like the woman is training the guy to be in her friend zone.

The guy should say 'I'm not your butler.' and walk away and basically be a dick. He can say things like, 'I am only your housemate. I am not obligated to be your friend.'

This might however ruin the atmosphere in the house the guy and the girl are sharing.

It's better not to be friends with women, and also not to share living space with them if they are not family.

Post: #21

(05-07-2016 11:34 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

(05-07-2016 07:10 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  Hey guys, I would like to hear your response if a girl asks for simple favours. Something annoying happened and would be good to hear your opinions. This is the scenario.

She wants you to open the door for her friend. She is cooking and lets assume she has her hands full. You know her and you do it for her. No word of thanks from her.

Assume that she is your housemate.

So what would you say to her before and after opening that door to maintain your frame and stop her from taking advantage in the future while not being too condescending.

A general response to all such petty requests would be good.

My 2 cents:

The alpha thing to do here is not to share a living space with some random female in the first place.

It sounds like the woman is training the guy to be in her friend zone.

The guy should say 'I'm not your butler.' and walk away and basically be a dick. He can say things like, 'I am only your housemate. I am not obligated to be your friend.'

This might however ruin the atmosphere in the house the guy and the girl are sharing.

It's better not to be friends with women, and also not to share living space with them if they are not family.

Yeah, not sharing living spaces with girls would be the ideal situation but since I am living in a mixed gender style dorm, it is unavoidable. Also, being pretty new to game, I am seeing these situations as opportunities to develop the right frame to women, especially those looking to take advantage.

The above suggestion by Leonard is good. I will test it out.

For a verbal retort, I am thinking something playful yet letting her know she cant order a guy around. Perhaps, 'Sure, but it will cost you.' or something like that.

I am not sure if there is a thread for this somewhere for such situations, please direct me if you are aware of that.

All suggestions are welcome.

Post: #22

(05-08-2016 04:29 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  ...
For a verbal retort, I am thinking something playful yet letting her know she cant order a guy around. Perhaps, 'Sure, but it will cost you.' or something like that.
...

The important question is "would she do the same for you?" This in fact shouldn't be a question. If you're the only one responding to requests then that's an issue. You should regularly be asking her to do tasks for you of a similar value, even if those tasks are not necessary. "Can you get me a coke from the fridge?" Etc.

I don't like asking people to do things for me (even little stuff) but it's important to make sure that these small favours are not a one way street.

If you're on swearing terms then I'd suggest conceding small tasks only, accompanied with sarcasm to the effect of "jeez, you're such a fucking burden".

Of course, without knowing the person in question it's hard to give advice on something this nuanced.

Post: #23

(05-08-2016 06:51 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(05-08-2016 04:29 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  ...
For a verbal retort, I am thinking something playful yet letting her know she cant order a guy around. Perhaps, 'Sure, but it will cost you.' or something like that.
...

You should regularly be asking her to do tasks for you of a similar value, even if those tasks are not necessary. "Can you get me a coke from the fridge?" Etc.

I don't like asking people to do things for me (even little stuff) but it's important to make sure that these small favours are not a one way street.

If you're on swearing terms then I'd suggest conceding small tasks only, accompanied with sarcasm to the effect of "jeez, you're such a fucking burden".

Of course, without knowing the person in question it's hard to give advice on something this nuanced.

Thats a good test to see if they reciprocate.

Most of the times, these are girls you know pretty well. Not on swearing terms but you see them every day, like in class for example but are not really part of their inner circle.

Post: #24

Disagree but I think there is truth in it, namely:

Many people do "nice things" with selfish motives (Jesus spoke of the Pharisees in the Bible) covertly expecting a reward; some people naturally distrust these people, often for good reason (just as they would the cheesy infomercial pitchman or used car salesman)

Doing "nice things" for people who aren't reciprocating in some way is foolish, and if people trick themselves into think they're doing it without any selfish motive then they're fooling themselves or simply trying to look "holier than thou".

In some parts of culture (in females especially) generosity is essentially the "bragging right" (while in men it is typically competence or power), so you'll see women doing "altruistic things" but from a purely competitive standpoint (to "look more generous" than other women) rather than any real underlying principle.

Post: #25

My Grandfather had a good rule:

Buy the first drink, cigar or meal and then see how if and when they reciprocate.

No reciprocity - never say a word just cut them out of your life.

Example if I take a woman out for a romantic dinner...

I fully expect her to invite me over within a week for a home cooked meal (No - Chinese take out does not matter), netflix and chill... otherwise next plate in the stack.