Post: #226

(07-14-2016 11:15 PM)Off The Reservation Wrote:  

(06-22-2016 07:50 PM)username Wrote:  Not just millennial behavior. I got flaked on a $50k deal with a 68 year old guy just recently. Spent months negotiating back and forth wasting my time while locking out other potential buyers and then at the last minute the asshole backed out.

What signs were there from the start that it wasn't a deal? Maybe he was an asshole but maybe you have to improve your steps.

It's easy to say knowing the outcome and looking at it from the outsider's perspective, but why did you think that a guy nearly 70 years old is going to negotiate back and forth over a 50k deal and be serious about doing it?

Post: #227

(07-14-2016 11:15 PM)Off The Reservation Wrote:  Not just millennial behavior. I got flaked on a $50k deal with a 68 year old guy just recently. Spent months negotiating back and forth wasting my time while locking out other potential buyers and then at the last minute the asshole backed out.

What signs were there from the start that it wasn't a deal? Maybe he was an asshole but maybe you have to improve your steps.
[/quote]

I wasn't dealing directly with him but rather through a broker. The broker vouched for the guy and the guy is a multi-millionaire and pretty well known regionally in this industry. He was playing games from the beginning.

We established the price and terms and then he went silent for a few weeks because of personal issues. We gave him time and then we reengage and he lowered the price and change the terms into his favor and we met in the middle and agreed. Then silence for a few more weeks. Then he comes back and again works the terms and price down in his favor. We met in the middle again and then just silence. We finally just had to cut him off.

Post: #228

(07-15-2016 04:54 AM)username Wrote:  

(07-14-2016 11:15 PM)Off The Reservation Wrote:  Not just millennial behavior. I got flaked on a $50k deal with a 68 year old guy just recently. Spent months negotiating back and forth wasting my time while locking out other potential buyers and then at the last minute the asshole backed out.

What signs were there from the start that it wasn't a deal? Maybe he was an asshole but maybe you have to improve your steps.

I wasn't dealing directly with him but rather through a broker. The broker vouched for the guy and the guy is a multi-millionaire and pretty well known regionally in this industry. He was playing games from the beginning.

We established the price and terms and then he went silent for a few weeks because of personal issues. We gave him time and then we reengage and he lowered the price and change the terms into his favor and we met in the middle and agreed. Then silence for a few more weeks. Then he comes back and again works the terms and price down in his favor. We met in the middle again and then just silence. We finally just had to cut him off.
[/quote]

I had something similar happen recently and I told them early on, "I'm just not that interested in this unless you show me traditional signs that we are moving towards a deal." That was after several minutes of some clown yelling at me that in this tough market i needed to do this and do that. I turned it right back on him, without my voice ever even showing inflection.

Post: #229

(06-22-2016 07:50 PM)username Wrote:  

(06-22-2016 01:54 PM)Eddie Winslow Wrote:  The "market inefficiency" that desperately needs a monetized solution is flaking. Think about how many billions of hours and dollars are wasted every year by people who give others their 100% verbal commitment, only to inconsiderately bail at the last minute with no real consequence:

-Dating
-Social Events
-Craigslist sales
-Business Meetings
-Group Vacations that require team commitment

Airlines, hotels, and doctors don't put up with this bullshit millennial behavior. If you flake on them, it is understood that you will receive a bill or lose a deposit for wasting everyone's time. I have a couple ideas about how to make this work...any app developers out there?

Not just millennial behavior. I got flaked on a $50k deal with a 68 year old guy just recently. Spent months negotiating back and forth wasting my time while locking out other potential buyers and then at the last minute the asshole backed out.

No way to know, and no way to tell.... Never count a deal done until the money is in the bank, though it's not odd for a deal to take some time to go through, I've been speaking with a customer about a $900 job project for atleast 1.5 years. They call ask questions blah blah blahs disappear show up again ask a few more questions blah blah blah. It's the nature of the beast

Post: #230

(07-16-2016 08:23 AM)ElJefe1 Wrote:  

(06-22-2016 07:50 PM)username Wrote:  

(06-22-2016 01:54 PM)Eddie Winslow Wrote:  The "market inefficiency" that desperately needs a monetized solution is flaking. Think about how many billions of hours and dollars are wasted every year by people who give others their 100% verbal commitment, only to inconsiderately bail at the last minute with no real consequence:

-Dating
-Social Events
-Craigslist sales
-Business Meetings
-Group Vacations that require team commitment

Airlines, hotels, and doctors don't put up with this bullshit millennial behavior. If you flake on them, it is understood that you will receive a bill or lose a deposit for wasting everyone's time. I have a couple ideas about how to make this work...any app developers out there?

Not just millennial behavior. I got flaked on a $50k deal with a 68 year old guy just recently. Spent months negotiating back and forth wasting my time while locking out other potential buyers and then at the last minute the asshole backed out.

No way to know, and no way to tell.... Never count a deal done until the money is in the bank, though it's not odd for a deal to take some time to go through, I've been speaking with a customer about a $900 job project for atleast 1.5 years. They call ask questions blah blah blahs disappear show up again ask a few more questions blah blah blah. It's the nature of the beast

I find that the bla bla leads you refer to basically almost never close. I also find obscure (out of order) questions are a fatal sign of a non-deal. It's not my industry but and an example for illustration purposes would be if a guy is test driving a new lexus and asks about the 100,000 miles timing belt change and wants to know the exact cost before buying the car will never buy. His mind should be on the payment and the oil changes not an event in 7 years.

Post: #231

(07-16-2016 08:23 AM)ElJefe1 Wrote:  No way to know, and no way to tell.... Never count a deal done until the money is in the bank, though it's not odd for a deal to take some time to go through, I've been speaking with a customer about a $900 job project for atleast 1.5 years. They call ask questions blah blah blahs disappear show up again ask a few more questions blah blah blah. It's the nature of the beast

If they've not got $900 to drop on a presumably small job, then they're not a customer I'd want. I bet it's costing you $50 in your time for every occasion they ring you up and waffle.

Or you're being used for free technical advice without realising.

Post: #232

(07-17-2016 07:01 PM)Off The Reservation Wrote:  

(07-16-2016 08:23 AM)ElJefe1 Wrote:  

(06-22-2016 07:50 PM)username Wrote:  

(06-22-2016 01:54 PM)Eddie Winslow Wrote:  The "market inefficiency" that desperately needs a monetized solution is flaking. Think about how many billions of hours and dollars are wasted every year by people who give others their 100% verbal commitment, only to inconsiderately bail at the last minute with no real consequence:

-Dating
-Social Events
-Craigslist sales
-Business Meetings
-Group Vacations that require team commitment

Airlines, hotels, and doctors don't put up with this bullshit millennial behavior. If you flake on them, it is understood that you will receive a bill or lose a deposit for wasting everyone's time. I have a couple ideas about how to make this work...any app developers out there?

Not just millennial behavior. I got flaked on a $50k deal with a 68 year old guy just recently. Spent months negotiating back and forth wasting my time while locking out other potential buyers and then at the last minute the asshole backed out.

No way to know, and no way to tell.... Never count a deal done until the money is in the bank, though it's not odd for a deal to take some time to go through, I've been speaking with a customer about a $900 job project for atleast 1.5 years. They call ask questions blah blah blahs disappear show up again ask a few more questions blah blah blah. It's the nature of the beast

I find that the bla bla leads you refer to basically almost never close. I also find obscure (out of order) questions are a fatal sign of a non-deal. It's not my industry but and an example for illustration purposes would be if a guy is test driving a new lexus and asks about the 100,000 miles timing belt change and wants to know the exact cost before buying the car will never buy. His mind should be on the payment and the oil changes not an event in 7 years.

I'm in technology and to be honest just about every question is obscure (out of order) unless I happen to be speaking with the IT person from the organization.

(07-18-2016 03:12 AM)roberto Wrote:  

(07-16-2016 08:23 AM)ElJefe1 Wrote:  No way to know, and no way to tell.... Never count a deal done until the money is in the bank, though it's not odd for a deal to take some time to go through, I've been speaking with a customer about a $900 job project for atleast 1.5 years. They call ask questions blah blah blahs disappear show up again ask a few more questions blah blah blah. It's the nature of the beast

If they've not got $900 to drop on a presumably small job, then they're not a customer I'd want. I bet it's costing you $50 in your time for every occasion they ring you up and waffle.

Or you're being used for free technical advice without realising.

Naw they are discussing purchasing some hardware and software, I deal with customers on a daily basis trying to fish for answers to their technical issues and am an expert at disengaging its pretty simply "that will be X per hour and a X travel fee, I'll send you the work order to sign now"

What you need to understand in a lot of instances when your doing sales there are long sales cycles unless your selling $5.99 doo hickeys people at times take their time before making a decision, unfortunately all you can do is guess if they are serious or not but you'd be making a huge mistake to assume they arent becuase of them asking dumb quesitons or draggging their feet.

Post: #233

(07-16-2016 08:23 AM)ElJefe1 Wrote:  

(06-22-2016 07:50 PM)username Wrote:  

(06-22-2016 01:54 PM)Eddie Winslow Wrote:  The "market inefficiency" that desperately needs a monetized solution is flaking. Think about how many billions of hours and dollars are wasted every year by people who give others their 100% verbal commitment, only to inconsiderately bail at the last minute with no real consequence:

-Dating
-Social Events
-Craigslist sales
-Business Meetings
-Group Vacations that require team commitment

Airlines, hotels, and doctors don't put up with this bullshit millennial behavior. If you flake on them, it is understood that you will receive a bill or lose a deposit for wasting everyone's time. I have a couple ideas about how to make this work...any app developers out there?

Not just millennial behavior. I got flaked on a $50k deal with a 68 year old guy just recently. Spent months negotiating back and forth wasting my time while locking out other potential buyers and then at the last minute the asshole backed out.

No way to know, and no way to tell.... Never count a deal done until the money is in the bank, though it's not odd for a deal to take some time to go through, I've been speaking with a customer about a $900 job project for atleast 1.5 years. They call ask questions blah blah blahs disappear show up again ask a few more questions blah blah blah. It's the nature of the beast

I deal with flaking customers by getting them to commit to something small, quickly.

That small commitment comes with a signed contract, the collection and charge of their credit card.

When the customer then inevitably asks for more work (due to the inital scope of their contract being very small...on par with the price they have paid). I amend the contract, they re-sign and are on a monthly or up front billing until the work is completed or contract is up for renewal.

I despite contracts with terms, invoicing and waiting for payment. I'd say about 25% of my deals under that arrangement have resulted in frustration for me with the client changing their mind, not paying or taking forever to pay. The slice taken off by the credit card processors is worth it for me to avoid this.

Post: #234

What about having people make a deposit? I think Dr. Howard has a great idea though on making people commit to smaller things. That way they put their money where their mouth is and one can indicate they are serious.

Back when I was doing contracts I would divy up shit into:
50% initial deposit (25 if you were a known client....or I was low on cash flow)
25% after the product ships
25% on delivery

If you have a reputation, niggas should not say "but what if you play me" because your reputation will back you up. That way you can separate the real homies from the fake ones.

Post: #235

(07-18-2016 04:27 AM)ElJefe1 Wrote:  

(07-17-2016 07:01 PM)Off The Reservation Wrote:  

(07-16-2016 08:23 AM)ElJefe1 Wrote:  

(06-22-2016 07:50 PM)username Wrote:  

(06-22-2016 01:54 PM)Eddie Winslow Wrote:  The "market inefficiency" that desperately needs a monetized solution is flaking. Think about how many billions of hours and dollars are wasted every year by people who give others their 100% verbal commitment, only to inconsiderately bail at the last minute with no real consequence:

-Dating
-Social Events
-Craigslist sales
-Business Meetings
-Group Vacations that require team commitment

Airlines, hotels, and doctors don't put up with this bullshit millennial behavior. If you flake on them, it is understood that you will receive a bill or lose a deposit for wasting everyone's time. I have a couple ideas about how to make this work...any app developers out there?

Not just millennial behavior. I got flaked on a $50k deal with a 68 year old guy just recently. Spent months negotiating back and forth wasting my time while locking out other potential buyers and then at the last minute the asshole backed out.

No way to know, and no way to tell.... Never count a deal done until the money is in the bank, though it's not odd for a deal to take some time to go through, I've been speaking with a customer about a $900 job project for atleast 1.5 years. They call ask questions blah blah blahs disappear show up again ask a few more questions blah blah blah. It's the nature of the beast

I find that the bla bla leads you refer to basically almost never close. I also find obscure (out of order) questions are a fatal sign of a non-deal. It's not my industry but and an example for illustration purposes would be if a guy is test driving a new lexus and asks about the 100,000 miles timing belt change and wants to know the exact cost before buying the car will never buy. His mind should be on the payment and the oil changes not an event in 7 years.

I'm in technology and to be honest just about every question is obscure (out of order) unless I happen to be speaking with the IT person from the organization.

(07-18-2016 03:12 AM)roberto Wrote:  

(07-16-2016 08:23 AM)ElJefe1 Wrote:  No way to know, and no way to tell.... Never count a deal done until the money is in the bank, though it's not odd for a deal to take some time to go through, I've been speaking with a customer about a $900 job project for atleast 1.5 years. They call ask questions blah blah blahs disappear show up again ask a few more questions blah blah blah. It's the nature of the beast

If they've not got $900 to drop on a presumably small job, then they're not a customer I'd want. I bet it's costing you $50 in your time for every occasion they ring you up and waffle.

Or you're being used for free technical advice without realising.

Naw they are discussing purchasing some hardware and software, I deal with customers on a daily basis trying to fish for answers to their technical issues and am an expert at disengaging its pretty simply "that will be X per hour and a X travel fee, I'll send you the work order to sign now"

What you need to understand in a lot of instances when your doing sales there are long sales cycles unless your selling $5.99 doo hickeys people at times take their time before making a decision, unfortunately all you can do is guess if they are serious or not but you'd be making a huge mistake to assume they arent becuase of them asking dumb quesitons or draggging their feet.

This is the opposite of what I believe. What you have to do is take control and get them moved forward through whatever steps exist in your industry.

If you have to guess you are not in control of your sales process.

You are not guessing when they pay you the X per hour and X travel. The one who will pay that would be at the top of my list. They have proven they are not flakes.

Post: #236

(07-19-2016 07:42 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

(07-16-2016 08:23 AM)ElJefe1 Wrote:  

(06-22-2016 07:50 PM)username Wrote:  

(06-22-2016 01:54 PM)Eddie Winslow Wrote:  The "market inefficiency" that desperately needs a monetized solution is flaking. Think about how many billions of hours and dollars are wasted every year by people who give others their 100% verbal commitment, only to inconsiderately bail at the last minute with no real consequence:

-Dating
-Social Events
-Craigslist sales
-Business Meetings
-Group Vacations that require team commitment

Airlines, hotels, and doctors don't put up with this bullshit millennial behavior. If you flake on them, it is understood that you will receive a bill or lose a deposit for wasting everyone's time. I have a couple ideas about how to make this work...any app developers out there?

Not just millennial behavior. I got flaked on a $50k deal with a 68 year old guy just recently. Spent months negotiating back and forth wasting my time while locking out other potential buyers and then at the last minute the asshole backed out.

No way to know, and no way to tell.... Never count a deal done until the money is in the bank, though it's not odd for a deal to take some time to go through, I've been speaking with a customer about a $900 job project for atleast 1.5 years. They call ask questions blah blah blahs disappear show up again ask a few more questions blah blah blah. It's the nature of the beast

I deal with flaking customers by getting them to commit to something small, quickly.

That small commitment comes with a signed contract, the collection and charge of their credit card.

When the customer then inevitably asks for more work (due to the inital scope of their contract being very small...on par with the price they have paid). I amend the contract, they re-sign and are on a monthly or up front billing until the work is completed or contract is up for renewal.

I despite contracts with terms, invoicing and waiting for payment. I'd say about 25% of my deals under that arrangement have resulted in frustration for me with the client changing their mind, not paying or taking forever to pay. The slice taken off by the credit card processors is worth it for me to avoid this.

Right, a trial close of some kind.

Post: #237

Any tips on starting an e-commerce shop?

Where to get the domain?
Use Wordpress? Do the wordpress e-shopping themes process the sales or do I have to get something like shopify?
If I get shopify, can I set up a shop immediately or do I need to do something else?
Use Shopify, opencart or any other?

Any help would be appreciated!

Post: #238

Never make business personal - I've been dealing with a manufacturer who fucked up a simple calculation which cost us a bunch of money, for several months now, and they have refused to own up to it. Finally got a higher up on the phone, spent and hour demolishing their case, point by point. He had visualization issues and was making a false argument. Finally realized he was wrong and attempted to save face by blaming it on a semantic misunderstanding. I gave it to him.

Never lose sight of the goal - to get your money. I, and I'm sure many others love to crush the ego of a moron who somehow rose to a position of power, but it's better to let them retain their dignity if it gives them an out and gets you your money. The goal is to win your money, not prove your intellectual superiority.

As soon as he said this, rather than calling him out on what he'd just been arguing for the last 15 minutes, I said, "OK, so we agree then that if you guys had done X then we wouldn't have had to do Y onsite." Therefore validating my entire claim.

Shortly after this he said that he couldn't authorize this kind of money and would have to take it to the CEO. $$$ incoming.

Post: #239

(08-01-2016 02:42 AM)Gorgiass Wrote:  Never make business personal - I've been dealing with a manufacturer who fucked up a simple calculation which cost us a bunch of money, for several months now, and they have refused to own up to it. Finally got a higher up on the phone, spent and hour demolishing their case, point by point. He had visualization issues and was making a false argument. Finally realized he was wrong and attempted to save face by blaming it on a semantic misunderstanding. I gave it to him.

Never lose sight of the goal - to get your money. I, and I'm sure many others love to crush the ego of a moron who somehow rose to a position of power, but it's better to let them retain their dignity if it gives them an out and gets you your money. The goal is to win your money, not prove your intellectual superiority.

As soon as he said this, rather than calling him out on what he'd just been arguing for the last 15 minutes, I said, "OK, so we agree then that if you guys had done X then we wouldn't have had to do Y onsite." Therefore validating my entire claim.

Shortly after this he said that he couldn't authorize this kind of money and would have to take it to the CEO. $$$ incoming.

any update?

Post: #240

No follow-up yet. The project manager did say their CEO would want to look over everything relevant and the official resolution has yet to arrive. We buy enough off them that whatever amount we all eventually agree on will likely just be deducted from a future order. Recently wrapped up another very profitable job and the owners have been right on top of payments, so with money not being an issue, for the sake of goodwill I don't think we're going to push for an actual check from these guys.

Post: #241

I've had an assembly screwed up twice for a major customer and just sucked it up. Nothing much you can really do unless you want to move all your packaging equipment somewhere else.

Post: #242

Advice.

I am moving into a relationship with two other parties. We each control a certain part of the chain of business. Extraction (party 1), capital/marketing (party 2), design/manufacturing (me).

I was brought in by party 1 about forming a partnership about three months ago. Party I brought to the table a month ago for obvious reasons. Now the three groups want to form a company to begin this venture.

Instead of partnership, I am thinking to take my standard royalty (20% gross) and sign on as a director and consultant so I have a say in the final products. I have a gut feeling and I want to make sure that I have access to my designs later on if this goes poorly. I dont want a non-compete.

Downsides:

- I lose autonomy. I love having my own product lines, under my name, and my own hours.
- I have debt to a government agency. Not sure how this will work on their end.
- Currently this business is about 60% of my income. I am not sure how much time I would have to keep this other one afloat, I do not want it to go away.

Upsides:

- Capital is a big one. And the ability raise more.
- Real marketing budgets.
- Shares in a mining company
- If the company is successful and goes public $$$$
- If mining company is successful (we are working on a new type of extraction program) $$$$

This is an interesting one.

Post: #243

(08-11-2016 04:52 PM)Laner Wrote:  This is an interesting one.

The debt is something you would be personally liable for or would the company assets be enough collateral? I would never be comfortable having the fate of my house resting on decisions someone else in the business would be making.

As minority shareholder in my S corp I'm also worried about possible non-compete clauses if it gets sold for more than I'd be willing to pay someday. Valid concern you have, don't want to be locked out of a market you've spent decades building a skill set for.

Post: #244

I've worked with Ali Baba suppliers a small bit. The only thing I could even think of is try to use your purchase as leverage.
(if you don't take it down I won't order from you)

It might work depending on how many units you were planning on ordering. Asian markets are cutthroat as he'll bro. It's a totally different world.

Post: #245

(08-11-2016 04:52 PM)Laner Wrote:  Advice.

I am moving into a relationship with two other parties. We each control a certain part of the chain of business. Extraction (party 1), capital/marketing (party 2), design/manufacturing (me).

I was brought in by party 1 about forming a partnership about three months ago. Party I brought to the table a month ago for obvious reasons. Now the three groups want to form a company to begin this venture.

Instead of partnership, I am thinking to take my standard royalty (20% gross) and sign on as a director and consultant so I have a say in the final products. I have a gut feeling and I want to make sure that I have access to my designs later on if this goes poorly. I dont want a non-compete.

Downsides:

- I lose autonomy. I love having my own product lines, under my name, and my own hours.
- I have debt to a government agency. Not sure how this will work on their end.
- Currently this business is about 60% of my income. I am not sure how much time I would have to keep this other one afloat, I do not want it to go away.

Upsides:

- Capital is a big one. And the ability raise more.
- Real marketing budgets.
- Shares in a mining company
- If the company is successful and goes public $$$$
- If mining company is successful (we are working on a new type of extraction program) $$$$

This is an interesting one.

Do the royalty thing. Partnerships always get screwed up one way or another, especially when its a partnership of individuals vs. corporations in a joint venture.

Post: #246

I truly fired one of my clients for the first time in 9 years. I told them to fuck off and that they were wasting my time so deftly that they were speechless. Nightmare family to deal with. Six months and some money lost. Had to be done.

I fell into the trap and broke two of my own rules because it was "slow."

Don't break your own rules for circumstances.

Post: #247

I didn't want to create a new thread for this topic, but does anyone have any ideas on small investments that can generate income in the long term. I am talking about investments averaging around £1000.

Post: #248

(08-18-2016 11:09 AM)Constitution45 Wrote:  I didn't want to create a new thread for this topic, but does anyone have any ideas on small investments that can generate income in the long term. I am talking about investments averaging around £1000.

So many great companies and ideas started with little or no money but there is no exact formula that you can follow.

The key ingredient is you and your ideas, not just the thousand quid. What are you thinking?

Post: #249

Does anyone make money online? Like freelancing, e-commerce, affiliate marketing, selling digital products, adsense etc. I am looking for someone that is actually successful not someone that sells the dream of making money online.

Post: #250

(08-18-2016 03:45 PM)Tayo Wrote:  Does anyone make money online? Like freelancing, e-commerce, affiliate marketing, selling digital products, adsense etc. I am looking for someone that is actually successful not someone that sells the dream of making money online.

yes, freelancing. I make enough at it that my wife's only jobs are to clean the house, cook the food, care for the kid and look good.

It can be done.