Post: #1

This is my first post; I’ve read the stickies and searched the forums and I think this post is ok, but apologies if this post is a duplicate or breaks any rules.

I’m a quarter-way through a 100 daygame approach challenge and have had two dates so far from this. Both were good looking women, and were very open during the approach; we had a good connection, they were enthusiastic and positive. However by the time the date rolled around, it was like they were different people….

Their behaviour was guarded and cagey; one girl had one alcoholic drink and wouldn’t have any more, the other had a cranberry juice and then stopped drinking anything. Both accused me of being a PUA/PUA student and asked how many girls I’d spoke to etc etc. Their conversation was a nightmare. “Why are you desperately trying to meet women on the streets?”......was one example of an annoying question. Some of what they said was definitely shit testy......maybe all of it, I don’t know. I was unprepared for the barrage of crap that I took on both dates which probably didn’t help me handle it well. This was mainly because nothing in the approach interaction suggested they would behave in that way. In hindsight, some of the pre date texting showed hints of the change in attitude, but I didn't take heed. One of the girls refused to answer a couple of simple questions, saying, for example: “I can’t tell someone I met on the street where I work”. Both set time constraints about an hour and a half in. One girl’s hands never left her bag and coat. I ended up wondering why they agreed to meet me in the first place.

Has anyone else had a similar experience?
Is there anything I can do in the approach to mitigate this bitchy behaviour?
How should I have behaved on the date? (I actually tried to increase comfort, but may not have been the right thing to do).

I find first dates from nightgame or from meeting someone through more conventional social channels to be much smoother and fairly easy to build tension and escalate physically. Maybe this is standard shit test / bitchy behaviour and I’m just not used to it. It was clear from what both girls said that they’d spoken to their friends about the date in advance, and I believe that’s where a lot of the negativity came from. Feels to me like they’re afraid of being judged and very focused on the approval of others. Possibly feeling the pressure during the date of the inevitable questions from their friends after.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Post: #2

You should write more about your approach to date game so we have a better understanding. Something in your attitude and demeanor is rubbing girls the wrong way.

My sense is that you are:

"over gaming" them
being too technical
not building enough comfort

Due to the above, you are coming across as contrived and not genuine.

Date game is much different than approaching a girl on the street. Read the section on date game in Bang.

Date game is hardened to master than Daygame, simply because you will not able to practice it as much. Also, girls will see through you if you solely rely on PUA technique.

Post: #3

Daygame is a broad term. How exactly did you meet them?

My first guess is that those girls enjoyed conversation at first, went home, thought about what happened, had a little bit of buyer's remorse which made them think more, and met up with you out of curiosity maintaining very skeptic attitude towards you.

Do you think that might be coming off too confident / forward / intimidating?

Post: #4

Thanks for the responses guys.

To give more detail:

The first girl (Czech) I approached in a shopping mall (in London) in the daytime while she was on her own, my approach was nothing special (I think). I got in front, opened with "Excuse me, hi, I just saw you walk past me and I had to stop you because I felt compelled to tell you something.......". Waited for her to respond, then "What I had to tell you is, I think you're beautiful", and her face lit up a lot. Whole interaction was probably less than 5 minutes. She had a boyfriend but still easily gave me her number. She had to go back to Czech for a couple of weeks so it was a few weeks before we met. In that time she texted some annoying questions e.g. "How many girls did you approach that day before me?". When we met for the date she was very cold from the start, body language was defensive, she left pauses before she said anything.

The second girl (German) I approached on Leicester Square around 6pm on a Wednesday evening, while she was on her own. I believe my approach was strong, relaxed and confident. Lef with "Excuse me, hi, I know this is random but I was just walking past with my friend and I saw you just now. I think you're kind of cute and I wanted to say hi and find out who you are" Interaction was maybe 7/8 minutes. Could have (and should) been longer but I ended it as I was tired, I had intended it to be my last approach of the day, it was late, my wingman was waiting also (no good reasons here I know...probably need to work on extending the interactions). Again, on the day of the date she was cold from the start, clutching her bag and coat. Met her at the tube station and we walked to the bar (chose a table-tennis bar). Chat seemed ok on the way, I was feeling relaxed. Then once we sat down she became super cold / defensive / bitchy / shit-testy.

I've read Bang, and had another look at the dating section last night, but don't see anything in there that links to this situation.

XXL - your view around curiosity somewhat matches mine (and both girls mentioned during the date that they'd come because they were curious). However there was decent eye contact / smiling / rapport with both, at times during the date. I don't think girls will turn up for a date up out of curiosity only -> there must be some attraction for them to do that. I don't think I'm intimidating (I actually think I need to work on being more dominant during approaches), but perhaps I came off as too confident or smooth / routined. I wasn't robotic /reading from a script in either approach though, and genuinely enjoyed the interaction.

Just aware that it's twice in a row now this has happened. Who knows, the next first date may go just fine.

Post: #5

I don't have tons of experience with street gaming (I only hit when the girl shows interest first), but a good answer to a "Why are you....." shit test is just, "Why not?"

Her: "Why are you meeting women on the streets like that?"
You: "Why not?"

Post: #6

I'm curious, how did you respond to these?

Quote:"How many girls did you approach that day before me?"

Quote:“Why are you desperately trying to meet women on the streets?”

I think you need to decide who you want to be first. Do you want to be that bold player who has no shame about approaching multiple women in the street? If so, be that guy. The answer to that first question could then be something like, "I swear you were the only one ." Or, "If I told you, you would have to buy me dinner."

Or are you that shy, reserved, but romantic guy who "never does that sort of thing" and this was all just a spontaneous moment in the street. For me, I've had more success when I portray myself as more of the unapologetic guy who goes after what he wants and doesn't really need to explain himself.

Additionally, something tells me your frame control was off. This could have to do with the fact that you aren't sure how you should sell yourself to these women.

Day game is a different beast than meeting girls via other avenues. Many girls haven't actually slept with a guy they met from the street before. So it is new to many of them and naturally they can be uncomfortable about it. But with this discomfort also comes a sense of curiosity and excitement which we know women are inherently attracted to.

In some cases, I feel you have to ramp up the ball busting a bit and do a lot of agreeing/amplifying or turn things around on her in order to actually build more comfort before you actually meet. Example: Girl says, "But how do I know you aren't a serial murderer?" You can respond, "I actually was worried about the same from you, but luckily my private investigator is working hard on your case and he will send me a report later on today." Then you can joke about the things that your imaginary PI has dug up on her.

Lastly, a fun game I like to play with a girl via text is the two truths and one lie game. Someone on this forum suggested it and it is a fun way to get to know a girl, and vice versa.

Post: #7

(03-17-2016 03:00 AM)TheExperimenter Wrote:  The first girl (Czech) I approached in a shopping mall (in London) in the daytime while she was on her own, my approach was nothing special (I think). I got in front, opened with "Excuse me, hi, I just saw you walk past me and I had to stop you because I felt compelled to tell you something.......". Waited for her to respond, then "What I had to tell you is, I think you're beautiful", and her face lit up a lot. Whole interaction was probably less than 5 minutes. She had a boyfriend but still easily gave me her number. She had to go back to Czech for a couple of weeks so it was a few weeks before we met. In that time she texted some annoying questions e.g. "How many girls did you approach that day before me?". When we met for the date she was very cold from the start, body language was defensive, she left pauses before she said anything.

The second girl (German) I approached on Leicester Square around 6pm on a Wednesday evening, while she was on her own. I believe my approach was strong, relaxed and confident. Lef with "Excuse me, hi, I know this is random but I was just walking past with my friend and I saw you just now. I think you're kind of cute and I wanted to say hi and find out who you are" Interaction was maybe 7/8 minutes. Could have (and should) been longer but I ended it as I was tired, I had intended it to be my last approach of the day, it was late, my wingman was waiting also (no good reasons here I know...probably need to work on extending the interactions). Again, on the day of the date she was cold from the start, clutching her bag and coat. Met her at the tube station and we walked to the bar (chose a table-tennis bar). Chat seemed ok on the way, I was feeling relaxed. Then once we sat down she became super cold / defensive / bitchy / shit-testy.

Direct game is hard, and that's what it sounds like you're doing from this outline of your actions.

I've never really attempted it, maybe I will someday, so perhaps my input is unwelcome but I'll give it a shot anyway (also in hopes that maybe I learn something as wll.)

I think that your direct approach was a little off. You're complimenting them on their beauty, telling them they're cute, whatever, and I think that's going to put them on the defensive and raise their "PUA alert" shields, even if they agree to meet up.

You don't have to go indirect and open by asking what time it is, but the examples Roosh gives about direct game are a little different.

http://www.rooshv.com/direct-day-game-for-beginners

So instead of saying "You're cute" you might say something like "That shade of mauve lipstick looks just right on you, great choice. Yup, no doubt we're dealing with a woman who's got style here."

Because I think the reason she's texting you giving you stress about how many girls you approached that day is because, well, she knows you said "you're cute!" to ten girls that day, and she's right! Women - not dumb.

But if you tell her she's got style for selecting that particular shade of lipstick...how many girls did you say that particular line to that day? None, that's likely how many (at least in her mind.) You came off as being very impressed by her particular style and beauty, not just throwing out generic compliments at every cutie who crossed your path.

A couple weeks before the meet is definitely too long for someone you just interacted with for 5 minutes, it's not terribly surprising they went cold on you on the date. I've had girls who I spent hours with on the first date who seemed really into me go ice cold on the second if I waited a couple weeks. In approach-land that's an eternity - they don't even remember you probably.

If I were on the date and they were giving me stress about cold-approaching them and not responding favorably to me being frame-consistent and throwing it back at them/brushing it off I would never have spent an hour and a half with them - I would have just said "Well, I'm sorry you feel that way" and bounced out after 15 minutes or whenever the first opportunity presented itself.

Don't throw good money after bad. If they're being nightmares and you bounce them there might even be a 10% chance they'll text you later to apologize. But you're definitely getting nothing if you sit there and take it.

Post: #8

Thanks again to all who posted - there's some good opinion there for me to think about.

To answer to some of the questions : in answer to the question on "how many girls....": I automatically amplified...think I listed off some names or something like that. However I wasn't prepared for more tests and didn't respond well to the second question. I think I said "I'm far from desperate". I said this in a relaxed tone while smiling but I don't think it's a good response. I think I should have agreed / amplified and/or quickly moved on in the conversation. I'm definitely not trying to be the shy guy who never normally approaches on the street.

I like the suggestion to remove or tone down the compliments and I started trying that this week. Also, I'm aware that leaving it weeks before meeting is not ideal, but for a couple of reasons it just panned out that way this time. Usually I aim for the first date to happen asap.

Finally, I agree that I should have called the second girl out and just been willing to walk out. I was too focused on my original basic plan of escalation and didn't adjust appropriately based on the signals / feedback I was getting.

Thanks again guys.

Post: #9

To me the best response to questions about approaching [like "how many.." etc] is to play dumb. That's how I usually do it. I usually ask "what do you mean?" followed by something like "so you say I can't talk to a person? That's weird". Then I give short answers conveying that being social is second nature to me so questioning it feels weird to me. If it still doesn't do the job I mention that I maybe it because I was raised by grandmother who was very social/open person.

Post: #10

(03-20-2016 08:04 AM)XXL Wrote:  To me the best response to questions about approaching [like "how many.." etc] is to play dumb. That's how I usually do it. I usually ask "what do you mean?" followed by something like "so you say I can't talk to a person? That's weird". Then I give short answers conveying that being social is second nature to me so questioning it feels weird to me. If it still doesn't do the job I mention that I maybe it because I was raised by grandmother who was very social/open person.

Throwing it back at girls by saying "Uh, you're being weird", when they ask what really are socially inept and inappropriate questions, is a good strategy for a lot of things.