Post: #1

I read an interesting article in the BBC today.

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20160211...ed-to-know

The article states:

"From London to Timbuktu, there is a teeming underworld of rebellious “anti-societies” who speak a mercurial, ever-changing code. Their words are, quite literally, gobbledygook designed to confuse authority."

The thesis of the article is that we are seeing the increased use of so-called "anti-languages" (community-specific argots known only to other initiates) as a way to build communal bonds and identify goals.

The more I read the article, the more it became clear that today's "manosphere" probably qualifies as having its own "anti-language." It has its own glossary of terms, world views, and ways of self-identifying.

These are the kind of linguistic studies that I really enjoy reading about.

It's clear that language matters, and how people use it matters.

Post: #2

Isn't this just describing jargon?

I don't think the purpose of these words is to confuse authority.

They were created to describe phenomena only understood to in-group members.

Agreed - they definitely help build a sense of community. Also to identify potential allies in the wild.

If I ask a man to define what he thinks 'game' is I can immediately know how red pill he is and his level of skill with women.

Post: #3

Do you even lift bro?

Post: #4

I've noticed a lot of the manosphere principles tend to be rejected by outsiders out of hand, for the sole reason that they employ manosphere jargon. Especially older people, they still have that "respect women" idea lodged in their fossilized pre-frontal cortices, so they'll just lecture you unless you rephrase to accommodate them. Then suddenly everything you're saying is common sense.

Post: #5

gr8 b8 m8 i r8 8/8

Post: #6

(02-23-2016 03:40 PM)Valentine Wrote:  Isn't this just describing jargon?

I don't think the purpose of these words is to confuse authority.

They were created to describe phenomena only understood to in-group members.

Agreed - they definitely help build a sense of community. Also to identify potential allies in the wild.

If I ask a man to define what he thinks 'game' is I can immediately know how red pill he is and his level of skill with women.

But don't you think that the whole analysis of male-female interactions, and all the words that have been used to describe everything related to that, is a way of challenging the status quo? Isn't "game" itself a way to get around the stacked deck and rigged game that is set up to subjugate men from birth?

Post: #7

(02-23-2016 03:53 PM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  I've noticed a lot of the manosphere principles tend to be rejected by outsiders out of hand, for the sole reason that they employ manosphere jargon. Especially older people, they still have that "respect women" idea lodged in their fossilized pre-frontal cortices, so they'll just lecture you unless you rephrase to accommodate them. Then suddenly everything you're saying is common sense.

I think people reject it because those terms can sound nerdy and lame. They still do to me, although many of them have their place and are useful to understand, use and explain. However at first I think it's better to talk about game without using jargon. I don't even like the word game, I would just say flirting or talking to girls.

Post: #8

I would say that these days, it is the mainstream that has a literal anti-language. There seems to be no real meaning behind words like rape, misogyny, social justice, etc.

Look at the insane cauldron-like bubbling of new personal pronouns, new sex identities, I mean, it seems like the whole point of all of this is to render language meaningless, and debate impossible.

So much of what passes for analysis of social issues changes so often, and focuses on irrelevancies like mansplaining and manspreading, that it seems like the whole shebang is designed to create maximum ambiguity, so that everything boils down to whatever the speaker is feeling at the time they are speaking, and they can always change their stance as the winds of public opinion change, and they can never be accused of flipflopping on a stance, or anything else for that matter.

For people that value plain talk, this whole new anti-language majority has the effect of derailing any conversation about anything at any time.

It makes everything so unbearably meta as well, and we get conversations where the actual subject at hand can never be addressed, because people are so busy squabbling over why you used that expression, or used that tone of voice, that the whole thing makes anyone who wants to get anything done through some level of dialectic just throw up their hands and say,

This is impossible and pointless.

Which works really well for the feminists and SJWs.

We may have our own acronyms and expressions like everyone else, but we don't wake up one day and hamster means something completely different, and everyone pretends like that is what it meant all along.

When we use expressions like white knight, and mangina, we are only adding color to concepts that could easily be expressed in simple English, and that is directly in opposition to the SJWs, who have to dress up their ridiculous and pointless concepts in fancy terminology to hide their fundamental vacuousness.

Post: #9

(02-23-2016 05:16 PM)RedPillUK Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 03:53 PM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  I've noticed a lot of the manosphere principles tend to be rejected by outsiders out of hand, for the sole reason that they employ manosphere jargon. Especially older people, they still have that "respect women" idea lodged in their fossilized pre-frontal cortices, so they'll just lecture you unless you rephrase to accommodate them. Then suddenly everything you're saying is common sense.

I think people reject it because those terms can sound nerdy and lame. They still do to me, although many of them have their place and are useful to understand, use and explain. However at first I think it's better to talk about game without using jargon. I don't even like the word game, I would just say flirting or talking to girls.

Oh yeah, I think that Neil Strauss book is really what cemented that perception. I mean, the PUA forums did use all that spergy terminology, but that book was essentially written for the masses to specifically portray these guys as pathetic nerds.

Post: #10

(02-23-2016 05:12 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 03:40 PM)Valentine Wrote:  Isn't this just describing jargon?

I don't think the purpose of these words is to confuse authority.

They were created to describe phenomena only understood to in-group members.

But don't you think that the whole analysis of male-female interactions, and all the words that have been used to describe everything related to that, is a way of challenging the status quo? Isn't "game" itself a way to get around the stacked deck and rigged game that is set up to subjugate men from birth?

Agreed. But can't you make that argument about every in-groups terminology?

A tidbit I did find quite interesting was:

Quote:The wit and word play of Polari soon became central elements of “camp” humour, influencing family favourites such as the Carry On films. The most outrageous example was possibly Kenneth Williams’ popular BBC radio show Round the Horne, which used graphic innuendo to bring gay culture into even the most conservative of living rooms. Ostensibly talking about music, for instance, one character describes “a miracle of dexterity at the cottage upright”. The phrase may have sounded innocent enough for those who did not know that “cottage” means “public toilet” and “upright” refers to an erection.

His success is a startling illustration of the power of an anti-language to subvert – using the establishment's prudish "Auntie" to broadcast shocking scenes of gay culture, two years before the Sexual Offences Act decriminalised homosexuality. The show may have only got the green light thanks to the fact that the radio commissioners either didn’t understand the connotations – or at least, didn’t want to admit they understood them.

It's great that we've invented lots of new words to describe particular phenomena but perhaps these double-meaning codewords are the better bets for identifying fellow red pill men and subtly influencing the masses e.g. hamster, lizard etc.

Post: #11

   

Ya, me droogies.....there is.....

Post: #12

Language is largely a vehicle for culture and to identify yourself as part of an in-group. It functions as a way of delivering concepts in short-hand.

The manosphere has particular terms that evolved out of PUA 1.0 such as oneitis, alpha/beta, hypergamy and terms that came from MRA such as hypoagency, misandry etc. Some of these would take a paragraph to explain to someone in the outgroup, but for us its a way to quickly identify and play with complex ideas.

The SJW's also have their own language with terms such as 'intersectional privilege' which would also take a paragraph to explain to outsiders. It reflects their view of the world and shows where they spend a lot of their mental energies.

I'd agree with debeguiled that we don't attempt to subvert words in the mainstream to promote our agenda. We do however push back when the SJW's try to do this. For instance we're adamant that 'rape' doesn't mean 'regretted sex that the woman tries to retroactively withdraw consent from'.

We also don't try to bog down rational debate by repeated attempts to control definitions/tone etc which is just a smoke screen to avoid having your ideas challenged. See feminists who refuse to debate people that don't believe in 'patriarchy' as they define it for example.

At the end of the day, all of this attempted re-defining of words is just another battlefront for the culture war that is going on in the West. The status quo versus progressive authoratarianism and cultural marxism.

Post: #13

It's only "anti-language" to the authorities because they can't grasp the concept.

For example, the phrase "hypergamy" is like talking water to a fish. They've never experienced the concept, and it's so built into their concept of the world that women should get whatever they want, that breaking down the concept wouldn't even occur to them.

Another - "last minute resistance." The idea that women put up "token resistance" goes so against current conceptions of "rape culture" that they can't conceive of the term as anything other then "rape apology."

Really - the elites try to push "anti-language" upon us, and confuse basic human terms like dating or rape so much that we have to create our own language to preserve normal human concepts.

It constantly changes because once the elites figure out one word and start to demonize and reframe it, we have to create another to preserves the concept. So for example because "last minute resistance" contains the word "resistance" and any resistance to a woman's whims is rape, that phrase died with old PUA culture. Now we talk about a woman's "hamster" and have gone a level deeper into what last minute resistance is to explore how women rationalize their behavior.

New jargon gets created too because in order to go deeper into something you have to create a shorthand. If I had to explain "sometimes women rationalize their actions because" every time I talked about what a woman did, our posts would be 10,000 words. Instead I say "hamster" and you guys all know what I'm talking about.

This jargon does also word as a short hand for who is ingroup and who isn't. I deliberately drop coded references to various subcultures when I meet people to see if there is something we can get rapport around. Christians have been doing this for years.

Summary: Preserving a way of life, culture, or worldview requires preserving it's symbols, which are contained in it's language.

Post: #14

^ to add to the above.

This article makes out this 'anti-language' as some kind of nefarious code or some such. Which, if your a conspiracy theorist or an SJW is seriously boner inducing. I have a different take.

After spending the bulk of my schooling in the co-ed state system I finished my higher education at an all male day/boarding school. The difference in cultures could not have been more stark to me.

One of the things I appreciated from my latter schooling experience, & something I know Quintus champions, was the segregation of the sexes during these years. I could comment much on this, but in keeping with the theme of this thread, it is the jargon that arose during those times that relates here.

One of my fondest memories of my higher education was the scathingly un-pc nicknames & terminology that we spent much collective effort adding to & evolving. In final year, you could go to a rugby match & heckle & slander all you liked in a code that adults & outsiders would acknowledge warily if at all. It was all part of the bonding & yes, quite tribal in nature. Its something that thinking men of all "tribes" have done throughout history, for convenience, bonding & hierarchical purposes. I often get a giggle from hearing the jargon from international members of the forum. It's a part of their culture & can speak much of their cultural worldview etc.

To this day, some 20 years later if I run into one of the boys we have that old language to fall back on & it is a nod to our shared history & a statement of camaraderie. Some might refer to it as "the Old School Tie".

Post: #15

It's not just in-groups that have jargon. Any specialized trade or industry has jargon or lingo as well. You have to have a set of words with agreed meaning to talk about specialized topics in your field of interest.

When talking to outsiders, I try to avoid using too much lingo. Instead of using acronyms, I'll say the full phrase until I'm sure they know the acronym. Likewise, I'm likely to make any red pill point using mainstream terminology. I do the same if I'm talking about something from my job to a person I just met.

As for calling it an anti-language, designed to obscure meanings from outsiders, I don't see it in our case, and frankly I question that this happens in other groups, with only limited exceptions.

I will say that groups develop their in-group jokes and terminology, that adds to the lingo to make it harder for outsiders to understand. What outsider would know what we're talking about if we mention Little Dark?

Post: #16

(02-23-2016 03:26 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  Their words are, quite literally, gobbledygook designed to confuse authority."

This is true of every niche.

Medical field uses complex jargon in part to insulate themselves from "outsiders" who did not go through the schooling and prerequisite memorization.

Lawyers and politicians use complex legal jargon to prevent anyone who is not a lawyer from fully understanding, applying and defending the law.

Police use complex codes over their radios to prevent others from understanding activity going on.

Every single specialized group uses particular language not just to describe things accurately and precisely but to insulate themselves from outside interlopers.

Post: #17

Quote:He thinks that the web will only encourage the creation of slang that share some of the qualities of anti-languages; you just need to look at the rich online vocabulary that has emerged to describe prostitution; those seeking the services of a sex worker are “practicing the hobby”, “trolling” or “mongering”. Montgomery points out that new, metaphorical forms of speech will also proliferate in areas threatened by state censorship; already, you can see a dozen euphemisms flourishing in place of every term that is blocked from a search engine or social network.

eg. "Do you know where I can find the pet shop?" = nice to meet you, let's have a friendly beer & a chat

or...

RAPIST.

Quote:Yet the Thieves’ Cant also includes some intricacies that are not found in the informal language you or I speak. They are perhaps best illustrated by a dialogue between two vagabonds, which Harman recorded in his book A Caveat or Warning for Common Cursitors. “Byng we to Rome vyle to nyp a bounge, so shall we have lower for the bowsing ken,” one suggests. Harman translates the phrase as “Let’s go to London and cut a purse, so we shall have money for the alehouse” – a meaning that would be almost completely indecipherable for people who were not in the know.

I kinda disagree here too. As a student of Shakespeare in my youth, given some context, this line would not be hard to translate today. Less so at the time it was uttered I'd wager.

I find this shit... harder to decipher than that stuff.

Post: #18

Because of Moma I describe women as lizards.

Post: #19

When I read that article, I can't but help see parallels between some of those "anti-languages" and words that get used in our sort of circles.

Quote:As Green points out, many slang words concern our basest preoccupations. “Slang may not represent us at our best, or our most admirable, but it represents us as human beings with anger, fear, self-aggrandisement, and our obsession with sex and bodily parts.

"Pozzed" compares progressiveness to AIDS, "cuckservative" compares taking political views not in your interest to being cuckolded. I remember seeing some tweets from (((confused people))) wondering why all their names had parenthesis around them.

I think one kind of "anti-language" that would be helpful to use is something The 5%ers did, where they would rename different cities and areas after Muslim ones.

Quote:The New York City areas of Harlem ("Mecca") and Brooklyn ("Medina") were named after notable Islamic cities by members of the organization.[3][4] Other areas include Detroit ("D-Mecca"), New Jersey ("New Jerusalem"), Chicago ("C-Medina"), Queens ("the Desert"), Connecticut ("New Heaven"), St. Louis ("Saudi"), Seattle ("Morocco"), and Dallas ("the Sudan").[5]

Post: #20

There is so much jargon and insider-words in a Heartiste post, for example, that I doubt a non-initiate would be able to understand a lot of it.

Post: #21

Anti-language implies counter language, like saying freedom fighter instead of terrorist.

We have some of that, but mostly we coin new terms to describe new ideas that have no counterpart in the mainstream.

It doesn't need to disguise itself, because it's already conceptually alien to the authorities. All they can do is flare their nostrils and cry "Rape!"

Post: #22

It's like asking who got attacked by 30 white knights at the club.

Post: #23

I explained "don't scare the cat" to a plugged in friend of mine once and he friggin loved it. I worry that it made him even more timid than he already was though.

You don't realize you are using the jargon as you're saying it, wow.

Post: #24

(02-23-2016 03:42 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  Do you even lift bro?

This thread isn't going in the direction I hoped for.

Was this beta?

IRT?

May the Tuth be with you.

Post: #25

"Do you know where I can find a pet shop?"