Post: #101

(02-25-2016 12:57 PM)Blaster Wrote:  Paying 80% of your paycheck in rent to live in a 1br (possibly even a studio, she doesn't say) is not conspicuous consumption. Spending $200 a month to take the train 30 miles to work is not conspicuous consumption. College loans, however foolish they might be, are not conspicuous consumption. Eating rice because you can't afford to buy groceries is not conspicuous consumption. A laptop is an important tool and not conspicuous consumption. Driving your grandfather's car is not conspicuous consumption.

So don't live in a fun city. Don't go to college if you can't afford it - you think her degree got her a minimum wage job?

Maybe she should live in a boring city and, God forbid, fulfill her purpose in life by becoming a good wife and mother. Find some boring beta who might be thankful for her company. Use her minimum wage job as extra spending money or get a grunt teaching job.

My cousin, an English major, is a teacher in a small town in West Virginia. There's nothing to do there, but she lives comfortably and takes summer vacations for fun.

There was a time in America when people went to the jobs instead of expecting everything to be brought to them.

Post: #102

From Fortune via TFM:


Rob May is the CEO of Talla, a company he founded last August after leaving Backupify, another company that he founded and was the CEO of. He takes issue with Bernie calling out the millionaires and billionaires of the world and saying they need to pay more taxes. To communicate this, he wrote a well thought out letter in Fortune.

Quote:I agree with Bernie Sanders. The economy is rigged. In fact, it’s what my father, who is very conservative, taught me about life. Some find it surprising because the general position of liberals seems to be that conservatives don’t realize, or won’t acknowledge, this rigged economy. But my dad’s advice to me time and time again was that the world was rigged and the only way I could make it was to work harder than the people who were in charge of the rigging.

A few years ago I was walking through Harvard Square when a woman holding flyers for Elizabeth Warren stepped in front of me. She asked if I thought the government should pay off student’s debts. I don’t think the government should, but, then again I never had student loans. No, it wasn’t because I was from a wealthy family. I never had student loans because I worked every semester I was in college, and during some summers, I worked two jobs. I did this because I thought the world was rigged against me.

I missed out on a lot, because I worked so much. I didn’t have the life like many of the college students I’ve hired in the last few years. They study what they love — philosophy, political science, art, regardless of whether or not they have good job prospects. They travel. Mostly they seem to go to Vietnam and Cambodia. They eat out a lot more than I did at their age. They know all the trendy restaurants and hot bars.

When I got out of college, I lived well below my means, saving $25,000 so I could start my first business. That business failed miserably. I ended up losing over $50,000 total. It took three years to pay off the credit card debt I wracked up.

Over the next decade, I started three more businesses. Two of which failed. For one of them, a video yellow pages product I built with a friend in 2007, I used to take my vacation days from my “real” job and go door to door, selling video listings to small businesses. I lost a lot of my own money, as my disposable income never went to travel or luxury goods of any kind. It went to business ideas.

I kept at it because I believe, much like Bernie, that the world was rigged against me. I spent every evening after my day job working on side projects, learning new skills, reading. I didn’t own a TV for a long time and, even to this day, I’ve never seen any of the classic shows people like to discuss: The Sopranos, Breaking Bad, Mad Men, Game Of Thrones. I was working while they were on.

When I finally had a company that was successful, the experience of running it was more stressful than you could ever imagine. I had to deal with some really rough things. There was the time when, on the day we were supposed to close our Series C funding round, the lead investor called and said they weren’t going to wire the money. We had six weeks of cash left, and now I had to figure out what to do. There was the time when two of my executives quit within 10 days of each other, making my board and employees all wonder what was going on, and if there was something detrimental going on at the company that I wasn’t telling them.

There was a board meeting where, I took so many rapid fire shots from board members that one of my executives told me afterwards that he would never want to be a CEO and go through something like that. There were things that I can’t write about publicly, but that, if you have ever run a company, you know what I’m talking about. It really sucks to be in charge sometimes.

Despite the strain that entrepreneurship put on my finances, my health, and my personal relationships, I kept at it because I wanted to be successful. And eventually, yes, I became a millionaire. It only took 15 years.

Along the way, I learned a lot. I created over 100 jobs. And in the end I helped build something useful for thousands of companies around the world. But when I hear Bernie speak, I feel like I’m the problem with America. I’m one of those millionaires he mentions who should pay more taxes. I’m the bad guy. I’m the white male who is only successful because everything was handed to me. I don’t deserve the money I made. All the things I sacrificed don’t matter. The additional stress I was under doesn’t matter. The risks I took don’t matter. According to Bernie, the world needs fewer people like me, and more people like the smart Yale student who majors in something useless, travels the world, and then graduates with $100,000 in debt that people like me should pay off via higher taxes.

Yes, the economy is rigged. Any economic structure will favor some at the expense of others. But the wonderful thing about America is that if you are willing to make the right sacrifices, you can achieve whatever you want. Unfortunately, we’ve come to believe that achievement should be easy. Changing that attitude is the first step towards making yourself more successful.

Post: #103

(02-25-2016 02:38 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  From Fortune via TFM:


Rob May is the CEO of Talla, a company he founded last August after leaving Backupify, another company that he founded and was the CEO of. He takes issue with Bernie calling out the millionaires and billionaires of the world and saying they need to pay more taxes. To communicate this, he wrote a well thought out letter in Fortune.

Quote: I never had student loans. No, it wasn’t because I was from a wealthy family. I never had student loans because I worked every semester I was in college, and during some summers, I worked two jobs. I did this because I thought the world was rigged against me.

Yeah that's a nice letter - it makes sense.

But one thing you have to take into account - things were quite different back then.

In his letter he says that he worked every semester that's why he didn't have any student loans. But something like that is unthinkable today. How much is the average student debt today - probably around 35'000 USD I'm guessing. It's unrealistic to think that you would be able to earn that money in your semester holidays nowadays. The cost of tuition has skyrocketed in the last years.

Also, back then it was quite easy to get a job. Yeah you still had to hustle if you wanted to save money, working maybe two jobs etc., but it was just a lot easier getting a steady full-time job in the first place. If you wanted to work, you could work. But that is not the case today anymore.

So it's always quite easy when a baby boomer is looking back on his life and how it worked out for him. The situation is not the same anymore.

Post: #104

The girl who wrote the letter is entitled, naive and terrible with money. The CEO and others who responded to her are elitist and out of touch with reality for even highly skilled professionals.

For instance Rob May went to the Univeristy of Kentucky from 1994 to 1998. Tuition was $2510 for the 1994-1995 school year and $2736 for the 1997-1998 year. Minimum wage at the time was 5.15. So his tuition cost him ~530 hours per year of minimum wage work. The current tuition of UK is $10936. That's more than 4 times higher than we he started. Minimum wage is now 7.25 so tuition alone is 1500 hours per year of minim wage work. The total cost of attendance to UK is $24278, or 3410 hours of minimum wage work. There is no practical way for an 18 year old to work their way through college doing minimum wage jobs today.

Going to college now requires some combination of student loans, scholarships and parental support. A student who had to rely on loans shouldn't major in English but to admonish students for taking on debt at all is just ignoring the basic facts of modern higher education.

Post: #105

(02-25-2016 03:23 PM)Ice Wrote:  Yeah that's a nice letter - it makes sense.

But one thing you have to take into account - things were quite different back then.

In his letter he says that he worked every semester that's why he didn't have any student loans. But something like that is unthinkable today. How much is the average student debt today - probably around 35'000 USD I'm guessing. It's unrealistic to think that you would be able to earn that money in your semester holidays nowadays. The cost of tuition has skyrocketed in the last years.

I did it less than 6 years ago. It's not unthinkable, it's not even that hard. All it takes is enough initiative to get great grades so you can get scholarships. I worked 40 hours a week during college and I still had time for a fraternity, women, partying, etc.

Post: #106

It is unreasonable to expect a student to work their way through college these days, but the reality of why tuition is so expensive is that the schools are profiteering off the ubiquity of the loans. This is why you see millions of dollars being spent on special safe spaces for black students, and deans getting paid multi-million dollar salaries. Here's how much 6 measly fucking credits cost me this term:

Student Rec Center Fee $41.00
Engineering Grad Resident $300.00
Student Incidental Fee $158.00
SHAC Hlth Cntr Fee $124.00
Student Building Fee $33.00
Grad Resid Tuition $2,136.00

Look at how much of that is bullshit student government/recreation crap that I don't even use. It's all money so that the undergrads can have a nice place to go practice their vocal fry and get their ears gauged. Oh, and they have to pay someone to send all those campus-wide emails about diversity every week. Hell, today there's supposed to be some big islamophobia event (i.e. let's have a big winge on about how awful Trump is).

Post: #107

(02-25-2016 03:29 PM)Ensam Wrote:  The girl who wrote the letter is entitled, naive and terrible with money. The CEO and others who responded to her are elitist and out of touch with reality for even highly skilled professionals.

Agreed.

Quote:Along the way, I learned a lot. I created over 100 jobs. And in the end I helped build something useful for thousands of companies around the world. But when I hear Bernie speak, I feel like I’m the problem with America. I’m one of those millionaires he mentions who should pay more taxes. I’m the bad guy. I’m the white male who is only successful because everything was handed to me.

Rob, you aren't the problem with America, no you weren't handed your millions for nothing, and the whole accusation that the "system is rigged" is kind of vague.

But that doesn't let you off the hook. Who do you think you are, that you don't benefit from public infrastructure? That you didn't benefit from social safety nets while you were gambling your time and money trying to make it big? That you don't benefit from the stable, healthy, wealthy, and safe American consumers? You probably made millions selling shit to those American consumers. And have you forgotten about the US military? Inefficient or not, dead and frightened consumers certainly aren't going to be buying phone books. So try having a little humility and respect for the public good.

Post: #108

(02-25-2016 03:52 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 03:23 PM)Ice Wrote:  Yeah that's a nice letter - it makes sense.

But one thing you have to take into account - things were quite different back then.

In his letter he says that he worked every semester that's why he didn't have any student loans. But something like that is unthinkable today. How much is the average student debt today - probably around 35'000 USD I'm guessing. It's unrealistic to think that you would be able to earn that money in your semester holidays nowadays. The cost of tuition has skyrocketed in the last years.

I did it less than 6 years ago. It's not unthinkable, it's not even that hard. All it takes is enough initiative to get great grades so you can get scholarships. I worked 40 hours a week during college and I still had time for a fraternity, women, partying, etc.

Did you ever get in a huge fight against white knights at the club?

Post: #109

(02-25-2016 04:26 PM)Blaster Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 03:52 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 03:23 PM)Ice Wrote:  Yeah that's a nice letter - it makes sense.

But one thing you have to take into account - things were quite different back then.

In his letter he says that he worked every semester that's why he didn't have any student loans. But something like that is unthinkable today. How much is the average student debt today - probably around 35'000 USD I'm guessing. It's unrealistic to think that you would be able to earn that money in your semester holidays nowadays. The cost of tuition has skyrocketed in the last years.

I did it less than 6 years ago. It's not unthinkable, it's not even that hard. All it takes is enough initiative to get great grades so you can get scholarships. I worked 40 hours a week during college and I still had time for a fraternity, women, partying, etc.

Did you ever get in a huge fight against white knights at the club?

Not really, why are you asking

Post: #110

It's possible to work through college without debt if you live in the right place (cost of living, resident tuition, etc), choose the right major, and know you should make it a priority to avoid debt.

If you live in a place with high cost of living, or you have a very intense major, or you have reason to believe taking on debt is the right choice... it doesn't work out so nicely.

Edit - removed redundant statement.

Post: #111

(02-25-2016 04:39 PM)weambulance Wrote:  It's possible to work through college without debt if you live in the right place (cost of living, resident tuition, etc), choose the right major, and know you should make it a priority to avoid debt.

If you live in a place with high cost of living, or you have a very intense major, or you have reason to believe taking on debt is the right choice... it doesn't work out so nicely.

Edit - removed redundant statement.

Also let's not forget the military. While there's a lot of bullshit in it these days and a lot not to like, there's also plenty of upsides. It will take up a lot of your time and you have to sign a commitment, and there's a ton of bureacratic bullshit. The good news is that since most people who want to go in are gung-ho on infantry and armor, it's relatively easy to get a cushy support assignment once you commission.

It's also great for your job prospects after. You will start out 4 years behind (assuming you have a scholarship obligation), but you get a lot of benefits as well.

Not only does the experience have a lot of cache but the veterans groups are one of the best resources out there. Vets are scattered all over the best companies to work for and 9/10 times they're going to go above and beyond to help you land the job. If you're self employed it helps as well: there's a reason why everyone from industrial companies to high finance hires vets for sales jobs. People tend to make positive assumptions about your character that they don't make about kids with a straight sales background.

Post: #112

(02-25-2016 04:30 PM)Ice Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 04:26 PM)Blaster Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 03:52 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 03:23 PM)Ice Wrote:  Yeah that's a nice letter - it makes sense.

But one thing you have to take into account - things were quite different back then.

In his letter he says that he worked every semester that's why he didn't have any student loans. But something like that is unthinkable today. How much is the average student debt today - probably around 35'000 USD I'm guessing. It's unrealistic to think that you would be able to earn that money in your semester holidays nowadays. The cost of tuition has skyrocketed in the last years.

I did it less than 6 years ago. It's not unthinkable, it's not even that hard. All it takes is enough initiative to get great grades so you can get scholarships. I worked 40 hours a week during college and I still had time for a fraternity, women, partying, etc.

Did you ever get in a huge fight against white knights at the club?

Not really, why are you asking

A story about a legend. So legendary that one must search for the post. Sometimes a man must climb the highest mountains alone to find the truth. If after searching, your journey comes up short, post on the help me find it thread.

Not trying to be an asshole. Just that when you find it, you will understand that the price paid to find it pales in comparison to being blessed by the legend.

Post: #113

(02-25-2016 04:30 PM)Ice Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 04:26 PM)Blaster Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 03:52 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 03:23 PM)Ice Wrote:  Yeah that's a nice letter - it makes sense.

But one thing you have to take into account - things were quite different back then.

In his letter he says that he worked every semester that's why he didn't have any student loans. But something like that is unthinkable today. How much is the average student debt today - probably around 35'000 USD I'm guessing. It's unrealistic to think that you would be able to earn that money in your semester holidays nowadays. The cost of tuition has skyrocketed in the last years.

I did it less than 6 years ago. It's not unthinkable, it's not even that hard. All it takes is enough initiative to get great grades so you can get scholarships. I worked 40 hours a week during college and I still had time for a fraternity, women, partying, etc.

Did you ever get in a huge fight against white knights at the club?

Not really, why are you asking

Post: #114

(02-25-2016 02:38 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  From Fortune via TFM:


Rob May is the CEO of Talla, a company he founded last August after leaving Backupify, another company that he founded and was the CEO of. He takes issue with Bernie calling out the millionaires and billionaires of the world and saying they need to pay more taxes. To communicate this, he wrote a well thought out letter in Fortune.

Do you have the web link? I'd love to read the comment section if there is one.

Post: #115

Bernie is also going to tax the middle class from what I have picked up. I am sure that will help the struggling middle class.

Post: #116

(02-25-2016 04:21 PM)Blaster Wrote:  Rob, you aren't the problem with America, no you weren't handed your millions for nothing, and the whole accusation that the "system is rigged" is kind of vague.

But that doesn't let you off the hook. Who do you think you are, that you don't benefit from public infrastructure? That you didn't benefit from social safety nets while you were gambling your time and money trying to make it big? That you don't benefit from the stable, healthy, wealthy, and safe American consumers? You probably made millions selling shit to those American consumers. And have you forgotten about the US military? Inefficient or not, dead and frightened consumers certainly aren't going to be buying phone books. So try having a little humility and respect for the public good.

You're playing a big "what if" game there. If people bought his services it means they wanted/needed them. I thought this was the Roosh V Forum, not the Elizabeth Warren Forum.

Post: #117

(02-26-2016 09:07 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 04:21 PM)Blaster Wrote:  Rob, you aren't the problem with America, no you weren't handed your millions for nothing, and the whole accusation that the "system is rigged" is kind of vague.

But that doesn't let you off the hook. Who do you think you are, that you don't benefit from public infrastructure? That you didn't benefit from social safety nets while you were gambling your time and money trying to make it big? That you don't benefit from the stable, healthy, wealthy, and safe American consumers? You probably made millions selling shit to those American consumers. And have you forgotten about the US military? Inefficient or not, dead and frightened consumers certainly aren't going to be buying phone books. So try having a little humility and respect for the public good.

You're playing a big "what if" game there. If people bought his services it means they wanted/needed them. I thought this was the Roosh V Forum, not the Elizabeth Warren Forum.

Weak.

It's not a "what if" game at all. Odds are extraordinarily high that he made his millions from western consumers. List of Countries by Per Capita Household Consumption. Note that every country high on the list is Western or tiny.

The fact is that the elite class is growing wealthier, the poor classes are growing larger and the middle is getting squeezed. Yes, the elite class is growing larger, too. My guess is that Rob May has made it onto the very bottom rung of that wealthy elite. At this point, his main value to the rest of the elites is an aspirational role model selling "social mobility" to naive saps who identify with him and think that if they just work hard and take a few risks they'll be a successful millionaire someday, too.

As for Warren: she is right. What's unmentioned, though, is that there's a completely amoral rationale, too. The poor massively outnumber the rich. Read some history. It's well worth it for the wealthy to take some steps to avoid becoming arrogant, entitled, and ungrateful assholes. That opens the door for all manner of revolts that wind up costing far more than if you had just fucking invested in some popular goodwill (in word, deed, and dollar).

I'm not suggesting we move to communism. And by communism I mean despotism. I'm saying that's what we'll get if selfish and defensive rich people like Rob Mays continue lecturing about how the value of their hard work and sacrifice is really worth 1000x more than the hard work and sacrifice of anyone else. And again, Mays is on the bottom rung. He's the foot soldier for the real wealthy, out of touch behemoths. My comment as a nobody was an off-the-cuff response to another nobody.

Post: #118

(02-27-2016 12:02 AM)Blaster Wrote:  

(02-26-2016 09:07 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  You're playing a big "what if" game there. If people bought his services it means they wanted/needed them. I thought this was the Roosh V Forum, not the Elizabeth Warren Forum.

Weak.

It's not a "what if" game at all. Odds are extraordinarily high that he made his millions from western consumers. List of Countries by Per Capita Household Consumption. Note that every country high on the list is Western or tiny.

The fact is that the elite class is growing wealthier, the poor classes are growing larger and the middle is getting squeezed. Yes, the elite class is growing larger, too. My guess is that Rob May has made it onto the very bottom rung of that wealthy elite. At this point, his main value to the rest of the elites is an aspirational role model selling "social mobility" to naive saps who identify with him and think that if they just work hard and take a few risks they'll be a successful millionaire someday, too.

As for Warren: she is right. What's unmentioned, though, is that there's a completely amoral rationale, too. The poor massively outnumber the rich. Read some history. It's well worth it for the wealthy to take some steps to avoid becoming arrogant, entitled, and ungrateful assholes. That opens the door for all manner of revolts that wind up costing far more than if you had just fucking invested in some popular goodwill (in word, deed, and dollar).

I'm not suggesting we move to communism. And by communism I mean despotism. I'm saying that's what we'll get if selfish and defensive rich people like Rob Mays continue lecturing about how the value of their hard work and sacrifice is really worth 1000x more than the hard work and sacrifice of anyone else. And again, Mays is on the bottom rung. He's the foot soldier for the real wealthy, out of touch behemoths. My comment as a nobody was an off-the-cuff response to another nobody.

Warren is wrong: https://mises.org/library/elizabeth-warrens-blank-check

And yes, the value of some people's hard work and sacrifice is worth more than others'.

Post: #119

(02-21-2016 03:44 PM)Mr West Wrote:  I stopped at "I majored in English"

hahah me too.

Post: #120

As a guy who graduated right around the time that the US economy took a huge hit (2008-2011), it was pretty fucking awful. I couldn't even get a job as a server at Friday's. I would have been living on the street if I didn't live at home while I went to school. So I get the bitterness that many of the people in my age group feel: we played the game we were told to play, and came out of it all worse off than our parents. Who wouldn't be pissed?

I don't embrace those feelings because there are things we can do to survive and thrive in these times, but I think it's unfair when people look at my age group and act like everything that has happened was completely our fault. It's nonsense. We walked into a market that almost no one was prepared for and we're still trying to figure it out.

Post: #121

(02-27-2016 12:59 AM)Fortis Wrote:  As a guy who graduated right around the time that the US economy took a huge hit (2008-2011), it was pretty fucking awful. I couldn't even get a job as a server at Friday's. I would have been living on the street if I didn't live at home while I went to school. So I get the bitterness that many of the people in my age group feel: we played the game we were told to play, and came out of it all worse off than our parents. Who wouldn't be pissed?

I don't embrace those feelings because there are things we can do to survive and thrive in these times, but I think it's unfair when people look at my age group and act like everything that has happened was completely our fault. It's nonsense. We walked into a market that almost no one was prepared for and we're still trying to figure it out.

I can respect your comments as long as you agree it wasn't completely not your fault either. In other words, not a total victim mentality. I think that is what rubs some people the wrong way is the victim mentality, well plus a lot of snarkiness and arrogance that comes off from Millenials. And I get that some of the arrogance is really just defensiveness but still doesn't make it easier to want to help those sorts of people. During the 08-11 time I remember reading an article that employers were keeping their older employees and getting rid of the younger ones. I imagine keeping older ones was a bit mOre costly but if I remember right it had to do with them being more responsible, reliable and not so much a pain to deal with. Just one article not saying it is gospel.

I hope things have gotten better for you. I appreciate your candor.

Post: #122

(02-27-2016 02:06 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(02-27-2016 12:59 AM)Fortis Wrote:  As a guy who graduated right around the time that the US economy took a huge hit (2008-2011), it was pretty fucking awful. I couldn't even get a job as a server at Friday's. I would have been living on the street if I didn't live at home while I went to school. So I get the bitterness that many of the people in my age group feel: we played the game we were told to play, and came out of it all worse off than our parents. Who wouldn't be pissed?

I don't embrace those feelings because there are things we can do to survive and thrive in these times, but I think it's unfair when people look at my age group and act like everything that has happened was completely our fault. It's nonsense. We walked into a market that almost no one was prepared for and we're still trying to figure it out.

I can respect your comments as long as you agree it wasn't completely not your fault either. In other words, not a total victim mentality. I think that is what rubs some people the wrong way is the victim mentality, well plus a lot of snarkiness and arrogance that comes off from Millenials. And I get that some of the arrogance is really just defensiveness but still doesn't make it easier to want to help those sorts of people. During the 08-11 time I remember reading an article that employers were keeping their older employees and getting rid of the younger ones. I imagine keeping older ones was a bit mOre costly but if I remember right it had to do with them being more responsible, reliable and not so much a pain to deal with. Just one article not saying it is gospel.

I hope things have gotten better for you. I appreciate your candor.

I'm an RVF member. I'm about accountability for sure. I'm at a point now where the loans are under control and I'm living abroad and working in an industry that I have a lot of interest in. Things have been looking good for a while and I imagine that in two-three years things will be looking excellent.

That said, I made a ton of hilariously bad decisions (majored in english [don't laugh]) under the assumption that the economy would bounce back. Not sure what I was thinking back then. The economy didn't bounce and it was tough. All that said, I came out of the whole situation tougher and I'm able to really consider my actions a lot more carefully than I did in the past.

I won't yell the party lines and say "OMG US GOVERNMENT BAIL ME OUT" because I'd be asking my own fellow citizens to pay for my mistakes, which doesn't strike me as fair. They have their own families to take care of and I'm not the only one who struggled.

That said, I do feel like my generation really got fucked in regards to interest rates and other things. When I first took out my loans, they had relatively high interest rates at 3-4%, but those rates doubled to 7-8% on my government loans when that huge default happened. The entire situation was completely fucked up. Like I said, I have it under control, but the situation was definitely a lot to deal with and had me and many others hating the world in our early 20s.

But I decided to get serious and really look at my habits that got me in that situation and make some changes. Ironically, my english major allowed me to get a job abroad doing something related to writing and marketing, so that's pretty fucking cool.

I didn't mean for any of that to come across as whiny, that was just my experience when I first entered the job market and I wouldn't' wish that upon anyone, especially some 22 year old guy fresh out of college who tried to play by the rules.

Post: #123

Fortis, you did not sound whiny at all. 100 percent accountable and tried to be objective. Much respect.

Edit: we have all made bad choices and I guess life is about dealing with it. Definitely not a great marketing campaign "Life-you'll fuck up and then have to deal with it."

I think most parents remember their hardships and don't want that for their kids. It robs the kids of the toughness you were mentioning. Glad to hear you are doing your thing.

Post: #124

Food for thought - re-wording QC's post to another often-discussed topic on this forum:

(02-24-2016 08:26 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  I'm going to take a different view of this one.

Maybe this beta deserves to be ridiculed. I won't defend his actions or justify what he did.

But I personally have some sympathy for his situation. He is right: average guys are barely getting any sex or relationships, and girls are giving shit in return.

Laugh if you want to, of course, until it's you who has no sex or relationships.

But we also can't escape the reality that sex and relationships for the average guy have stagnated or gone down over the past few decades. For many average guys starting out, they are crippled by negative Game and are not getting anything from girls.

Girls need to give more, and significantly more for the average guy.

The players at the top have been banging every girl in sight for the past 30 years. These players have a responsibility to take care of their fellow men in a minimal way.

And that means a fair amount of sex, access to relationships, and a chance at betterment.

Obligations and duties go both ways. Players are obligated to care about their fellow men. And average men are obligated to respect the Game. (I dealt with this subject on Monday at ROK, when I talked about IRT's duty to respect the Game).

One of the big problems I see today is the disregard of responsibilities by both sides. Average guys don't respect the Game, and players fail to live up to their responsibilities. It sells us out and doesn't fight for us.

Some say this is an old-fashioned, outdated way of thinking. But I don't see it this way. Without laws and duties, there is no society, and no communal bonds.

Post: #125

(02-27-2016 12:59 AM)Fortis Wrote:  As a guy who graduated right around the time that the US economy took a huge hit (2008-2011), it was pretty fucking awful. I couldn't even get a job as a server at Friday's. I would have been living on the street if I didn't live at home while I went to school. So I get the bitterness that many of the people in my age group feel: we played the game we were told to play, and came out of it all worse off than our parents. Who wouldn't be pissed?

I don't embrace those feelings because there are things we can do to survive and thrive in these times, but I think it's unfair when people look at my age group and act like everything that has happened was completely our fault. It's nonsense. We walked into a market that almost no one was prepared for and we're still trying to figure it out.

A lot of the millenials who have an attitude of entitlement are where they are because they respected and trusted their parents.

They went to a university that their parents approved of and took their parents advice "do what you love" at face value.

After watching many of their peers waste their youth on drugs, alcohol and sex while they themselves were putting untold hours into study.

Should we really call them stupid for putting their faith in respectable role models, such as their teachers, professors and parents?