Post: #76

She can do better. And she knows it.

To the guy i say: hit the gym. Your life depends on it.

Post: #77

Why does everyone keep repeating the "hit the gym" mantra? There are millions of guys that don't hit the gym and don't look like that. Look at his face, his body language, his clothes. Even if this guy did hit the gym it wouldn't make a big difference, the problem is not just that he "doesn't lift", it's everything, it's his mind that is weak and has already given up.

Post: #78

(02-20-2016 09:55 AM)Teutatis Wrote:  Why does everyone keep repeating the "hit the gym" mantra? There are millions of guys that don't hit the gym and don't look like that. Look at his face, his body language, his clothes. Even if this guy did hit the gym it wouldn't make a big difference, the problem is not just that he "doesn't lift", it's everything, it's his mind that is weak and has already given up.

I do agree with you.
But, if he hits the gym, his T level will rise, which in turn could change his behaviour and open his eyes to his current situation.

"Now that I dropped a few pounds, gained muscles and a bit of confidence, my wife looks at me with less disgust, maybe I should continue on this path".

Post: #79

For someone who talks about presenting things in black and white, she just needs to tell him that he should get in shape and that she'll support him along the way.

I really did expect to hate the woman and pity the man, but he's brought this on himself

Post: #80

(02-20-2016 11:53 AM)Sonoma Wrote:  For someone who talks about presenting things in black and white, she just needs to tell him that he should get in shape and that she'll support him along the way.

I really did expect to hate the woman and pity the man, but he's brought this on himself

She won't though. I know plenty of women like this, they get married for financial support and children - then shut down sexually (regardless of what the man looks like) and dare him to divorce so she can walk away with a payday and years of financial support.

She's the definition of Marriage 2.0 - she just hasn't pulled the divorce trigger yet.

Post: #81

Here is a dose of unpleasant reality for men:

While it is indeed true that the guy featured in this article is in very poor shape for 26 and looks like, for whatever reason, he has abnormally high estrogen, the situation described here is very typical of many marriages and is by no means confined to men who are out of shape or even "beta" in any obvious or caricatured way.

The reality is that a woman who is in a long-term relationship with a man (and by long-term I mean years, as in a marriage) will very often become sexually bored with him. This happens even if the man is attractive, masculine, in good shape, and sexually avid himself. The woman's sexual boredom does not mean that she has no interest in sex as such -- far from it. It simply means that she has no interest in sex with her husband, and is often actively repulsed by the idea, or at best coldly indifferent to it. This sexual boredom -- and not any specific behavior on the part of the husband -- is the main cause of female marital infidelity.

These facts are explained in detail in the following essay by F. Roger Devlin, the first half of which should be required reading by every man. The essay is actually a review of an exceptionally honest book by a woman about marital infidelity:

Rotating Polyandry -- And Its Enforcers

In addition, all guys should read the following thread from the Reddit adultery subforum (I'm posting an archived link below). The facts have rarely been stated as plainly as they are by the woman in the OP to that thread, but all subsequent posts should be read and understood as well.

https://archive.is/Hp8za#selection-2889.175-2889.354

Here is an extended quote from the OP:

Quote:I'm a therapist and in my late 30's. I'm starting to see more of my female friends and clients being described as "low libido" because they have no desire to have sex with their husband. Often I hear them say things like, "I wouldn't care if we never had sex again," or “I just never feel like having sex.” However, these same women either get into affairs and can't get enough of their AP, or they get divorced and then can’t get enough of their new boyfriend. That’s not really “low libido.”

This isn't very revolutionary, Esther Perel has been talking about it for a while, but I'm wondering about the women in this subreddit. How many of you women are married to pretty great guys, but just feel NO spark or desire towards them? He doesn't beat you, he doesn't verbally abuse you, he works full time and supports your family, he's a good father, etc. but you may really believe that he’s a bad partner because you’ve demonized him in your mind to justify your affair(s).

This is my situation. My husband is a great man. He's a shitty communicator, but that's not unique. However, when I started having affairs, I was telling myself how horrible he was and how I'm not "meant to be with someone like him." I was justifying my affairs so I wouldn’t feel like a horrible person for not desiring him and wanting to have sex with other men.

Sometimes, people don't even realize that this is what's happening. I think lots of women say they have “low libido” because they assume that must be the problem if they don't want to have sex with their husbands, who they really do care about. And then if they DO realize what's happening, they will rarely admit to it because they don't want to be seen as a bad spouse or a slut, and they honestly don't want to hurt their husband's feelings or bruise his ego.

I think more often then not, that this is what's happening in long-term relationships. Women lose desire for their husband because they're bored with him. He's probably still fairly attractive to her, in that if he weren’t her husband, she’d check him out if he walked by her on the street. He's probably a good person, good father, and a pretty good partner. She really wishes she wanted to have sex with him because it's causing problems in her marriage, but just doesn't want to. Some people might refer to it as the “Seven Year Itch.” At this point in the marriage/relationship, she may seek out an affair because she starts to demonize him as being a bad partner, and he may seek out an affair because he's not getting sex at home, and sex IS a big deal and it IS important!

This subject has been addressed before in the 'sphere, of course, but I think most guys still don't have an understanding of these basic realities. They will either say that the man needs to simply stay in shape, or that the man needs to be a "patriarch" who runs his house with an iron fist, or that the man needs to continuously "game" the woman.

The reality is that, while it is of course an excellent idea for a man to stay in shape if he wants to live a good and enjoyable life, this does not, in and of itself, prevent a woman from becoming sexually bored over time -- read the bolded passages above carefully. The notion of a "patriarchal" household is an abstraction that has limited application to life as it is actually lived day to day. Finally, the notion that it is possible for a man to elaborately "game" the wife for years if that "game" is not an organic part of his personality and disposition is fanciful at best.

In fact, I don't think this problem admits of an easy solution -- and I don't think it ever did, in any society. What can be said is the following:

-- First, there is luck involved. Not all marriages go along this path -- many do, but there are also many marriages in which there is, at least intermittently, sexual attraction and spark for decades. This cannot always be predicted.

-- Second, it is helpful for a man to understand the basic nature of women. Most men don't understand it at all, and therefore their behavior only exacerbates the problems. They see that the woman has lost or is losing sexual interest in them, and they feel they are at fault so they take it upon themselves to be nicer to her, to listen to her "concerns" and to assure her of their own fidelity and commitment. All of these things are not only useless but actually counterproductive, as any honest woman will tell you (this is described in excruciating detail in the Devlin essay). The only thing that is productive is for the man to basically do what he wants.

-- Third, perhaps the main thing a man can do over time to maintain his woman's sexual interest in him is to cultivate his own sexual interest in other women. There is nothing that sustains a woman's sexual interest more than the threat of competition. That is not something that needs to be brought up explicitly, and it can't really be "gamed" -- a man either has strong sexual interest in other women or (in most cases) he doesn't and is completely content to be eternally faithful to one. Whichever it is, the woman will sense it. This does not mean that the man needs to fuck other women -- though he might -- but he should be alive to the possibility. The assurances of eternal fidelity that men are always in a rush to provide are uniquely counterproductive and engender nothing but contempt and increasing boredom.

Post: #82

^^^ This. Lizard, this was a masterful explanation of this aspect of female sexual psychology.

Post: #83

Women evolved their appetite for drama and violence to handle the brutality of life. Their mind cannot escape their programming from thousands of years ago.
We aren't evolved to work at a desk, mow your lawn, and live a safe comfortable life for 90 years.

The female psyche is more adapted to live on the wild west frontier, running a household and seeing her brute husband come home beat up after weeks of handling danger on a cattle drive. Her husband might come home bloody with an arrow in his shoulder, the baby might get fever and die.

It's like 'Oregon Trail' when all this bad shit comes up and threatens you, women needed survival mechanisms for this. We aren't meant to be so comfortable.


A stable guy with a 401k, business casual wardrobe, a neatly manicured lawn.... this is all too fucking boring to women. They want REAL danger and REAL action. Simply lifting weights does not cover this. Being a little taller and better looking does not cover this. They need the adrenaline rush.

Some men like this guy can get their jollies just by reading books and fawning over his new semiconductor circuit board design. Whereas women need action.

German women satisfy their own action cravings by voting in ficki ficki, so daily life becomes a rape-dodging contest. Gives them the adrenaline spikes they want.

Post: #84

(02-20-2016 01:51 PM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  Women evolved their appetite for drama and violence to handle the brutality of life. Their mind cannot escape their programming from thousands of years ago.
We aren't evolved to work at a desk, mow your lawn, and live a safe comfortable life for 90 years.

The female psyche is more adapted to live on the wild west frontier, running a household and seeing her brute husband come home beat up after weeks of handling danger on a cattle drive. Her husband might come home bloody with an arrow in his shoulder, the baby might get fever and die.

It's like 'Oregon Trail' when all this bad shit comes up and threatens you, women needed survival mechanisms for this. We aren't meant to be so comfortable.


A stable guy with a 401k, business casual wardrobe, a neatly manicured lawn.... this is all too fucking boring to women. They want REAL danger and REAL action. Simply lifting weights does not cover this. Being a little taller and better looking does not cover this. They need the adrenaline rush.

Some men like this guy can get their jollies just by reading books and fawning over his new semiconductor circuit board design. Whereas women need action.

German women satisfy their own action cravings by voting in ficki ficki, so daily life becomes a rape-dodging contest. Gives them the adrenaline spikes they want.

So women would be happier if marital rape was no longer a crime?

Post: #85

Lizard, that's a great explanation, but how do you explain some marriages having plenty of sex with into middle and even old age?

Last summer I was drinking with grand-uncles, old school guys from the countryside, tough mofos, Crocodille Dundee types, who only refer to women as 'bitches' (not as derogatory in their language), all have several kids and are true patriarchs.

One of them told me how sex dried up with the wife after kid nr. 2, but then added that my grandfather apparantly kept it going with my grandmother until the end.

How do we explain that difference? Two alpha men, both patriarchal, but one with a wife who doesn't want to have sex in middle age, the other with a wife who apparantly has sexual appetite well into middle age. There's got to a lot of personality involved here.

Post: #86

(02-20-2016 01:51 PM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  A stable guy with a 401k, business casual wardrobe, a neatly manicured lawn.... this is all too fucking boring to women. They want REAL danger and REAL action. Simply lifting weights does not cover this. Being a little taller and better looking does not cover this. They need the adrenaline rush.

This is largely another 'sphere misconception. It is true, of course, that women love bad boys, criminals, and rakes but this is hardly relevant to the great majority of cases of marital infidelity.

Again, read that Devlin essay. In many many cases, there is nothing special about the men that unfaithful women choose as their partners in adultery. They are often neither handsome, nor "alpha", nor "dangerous", nor "exciting", etc etc. Often enough they are (unhappily) married men themselves.

The betrayed husband will often look at the man his wife cheated on him with, and scratch his head and wonder: what does he have that I don't? And the real answer is very often: nothing. The main virtue that the other dude has in the eyes of a sexually bored woman is that he is someone different from her husband. And that, unfortunately, is the one virtue that the husband can never possess, try as he might.

Post: #87

(02-20-2016 01:59 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  Lizard, that's a great explanation, but how do you explain some marriages having plenty of sex with into middle and even old age?

Last summer I was drinking with grand-uncles, old school guys from the countryside, tough mofos, Crocodille Dundee types, who only refer to women as 'bitches' (not as derogatory in their language), all have several kids and are true patriarchs.

One of them told me how sex dried up with the wife after kid nr. 2, but then added that my grandfather apparantly kept it going with my grandmother until the end.

How do we explain that difference? Two alpha men, both patriarchal, but one with a wife who doesn't want to have sex in middle age, the other with a wife who apparantly has sexual appetite well into middle age. There's got to a lot of personality involved here.

One took her marriage vows seriously, the other didn't.

That's a major win for feminists - the "my body my choice" mantra that is directly opposed to the concept of a traditional marriage.

Post: #88

(02-20-2016 01:59 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  Lizard, that's a great explanation, but how do you explain some marriages having plenty of sex with into middle and even old age?

Last summer I was drinking with grand-uncles, old school guys from the countryside, tough mofos, Crocodille Dundee types, who only refer to women as 'bitches' (not as derogatory in their language), all have several kids and are true patriarchs.

One of them told me how sex dried up with the wife after kid nr. 2, but then added that my grandfather apparantly kept it going with my grandmother until the end.

How do we explain that difference? Two alpha men, both patriarchal, but one with a wife who doesn't want to have sex in middle age, the other with a wife who apparantly has sexual appetite well into middle age. There's got to a lot of personality involved here.

Like I said, there is luck involved. And by "luck" I mean a confluence of personality traits, sexual chemistry, habits, and circumstance that is too complex to fully disentangle or explain.

Post: #89

(02-20-2016 05:27 AM)Maciano Wrote:  To every guy i say: hit the gym. Your life depends on it.

Fixed.

Post: #90

(02-19-2016 07:09 AM)zombiejimmorrison Wrote:  

Quote:Sam returns from his job as an engineer at 5.30pm

Good solid career.

Quote:We’re parents to the same children, yet our experiences couldn’t be more different. He leaves as soon as they get up in the mornings and doesn’t see them until they are fed and ready for bed in the evening. Meanwhile, I do everything in between. As a result, we’re not really on the same page emotionally.

Yeah that's your job.

Quote:I have heard close friends say things like: ‘I feel so bad for John — we hardly ever have sex.’
Well, I don’t feel bad for my partner and neither should they. You might be married but you did not sign over the rights to your body.

Snarky feminist comment on her part, I'm guessing this is the state of most women in the west.

Quote:You did not enter into a contract whereby you are obliged to put aside your feelings to protect his. You don’t owe it to your husband or partner to have sex when you don’t want to

God damn, and she calls this a "loving relationship". I guess he should put aside his feelings and hire an escort.

Quote:But no means no. Even in marriage, it is not an opening for a discussion. It’s the end of the conversation.

Until it means yes. Seriously though not even a hand job for "the loving relationship"

She's got that look in her eyes, the one that screams I need some alpha strange right now. Sex is stress relieving, she hamstered a whole article about her husband being an ugly creep maybe this is just an elaborate way of advertising that he's a cuckold

Look how he sits with his knees together. That makes my balls hurt just looking at it.

I'm firmly on her side. She had four kids, she's a stay at home mother and she's actually quite attractive. The dude is lucky as fuck to have that in the West. But he's squandered it by letting himself go and turning into an androgynous she man. If he cares about his family then he needs to get back into shape and earn back her attraction.

Post: #91

(02-18-2016 06:57 PM)MiscBrah Wrote:  I don't blame her at all. However, if she doesn't want to put out, she shouldn't be surprised if he goes elsewhere for his needs.

Light hugs and handholding are no substitute for having your balls drained.

While I can understand your thinking, that dude won't get his balls drained unless he pays for it. I mean he really fucked himself.

Post: #92

The future of this "husband":

   

Post: #93

(02-20-2016 04:12 PM)RIslander Wrote:  

(02-19-2016 07:09 AM)zombiejimmorrison Wrote:  

Quote:Sam returns from his job as an engineer at 5.30pm

Good solid career.

Quote:We’re parents to the same children, yet our experiences couldn’t be more different. He leaves as soon as they get up in the mornings and doesn’t see them until they are fed and ready for bed in the evening. Meanwhile, I do everything in between. As a result, we’re not really on the same page emotionally.

Yeah that's your job.

Quote:I have heard close friends say things like: ‘I feel so bad for John — we hardly ever have sex.’
Well, I don’t feel bad for my partner and neither should they. You might be married but you did not sign over the rights to your body.

Snarky feminist comment on her part, I'm guessing this is the state of most women in the west.

Quote:You did not enter into a contract whereby you are obliged to put aside your feelings to protect his. You don’t owe it to your husband or partner to have sex when you don’t want to

God damn, and she calls this a "loving relationship". I guess he should put aside his feelings and hire an escort.

Quote:But no means no. Even in marriage, it is not an opening for a discussion. It’s the end of the conversation.

Until it means yes. Seriously though not even a hand job for "the loving relationship"

She's got that look in her eyes, the one that screams I need some alpha strange right now. Sex is stress relieving, she hamstered a whole article about her husband being an ugly creep maybe this is just an elaborate way of advertising that he's a cuckold

Look how he sits with his knees together. That makes my balls hurt just looking at it.

I'm firmly on her side. She had four kids, she's a stay at home mother and she's actually quite attractive. The dude is lucky as fuck to have that in the West. But he's squandered it by letting himself go and turning into an androgynous she man. If he cares about his family then he needs to get back into shape and earn back her attraction.

This is a "man" who was not around a father figure no doubt about it! The worst pat about it, is that in this dude's mind the relationship is going well & strong! He's got no clue that women in the long run harbor a bit of hate about loving you so much, and want to test you to see if you'll let them walk all over you because of that love! This dude handed his nuts to his wife, and that's why he's loosing

Post: #94

We should reach out to him. Get him to a meetup and give him a mentor for each component of his life that needs fixing. Poor fuck.

Post: #95

That's one way... to flip... the script...

Post: #96

This guy should take his wife to a swingers club or a swingers resort in the Caribbean and let his wife get the dick that she craves in a safe environment. I've never participated but one of my best friends in an avid swinger and tells me that a lot of the couples who he hangs with (IE: he fucks the wife while the husband watches) are relatively well adjusted people who like to spice things up a few times a year.

Post: #97

Lizard of Oz makes solid points about how most marriages turn out just as bad as this one, even when the man stays fit, and games his wife. He mentions the idea of the man being a traditional patriarch, and ruling with an iron fist. He mentions the idea of the man using game. These traditional ideas of being dominant or using game don't really work as advertised in the long run.

These two ideas are interesting. Women like a strong man initially, but they chaff under an overly authoritarian man in the long run. Women respond to game initially, but it's hard to sustain. By game her, I specifically mean the high energy, dancing monkey kind of game, where the man is actively working to stir the woman's emotions, connect with her, and get her turned on. Obviously it's hard for a man to maintain this kind of high stimulus over the long term. This isn't the only way of looking at game, but it's often what people mean by gaming your wife.

When I first took the red pill, it was from some material recommending the following combination for marriage game. I mentioned it in an earlier post in this thread:

Balls, leadership, and playful dominance.

Balls: Regularly doing ballsy things. Sneak in through the out door instead of waiting in line. Stand up to someone else and hold your ground. Conduct negotiations and business deals like the Wolf of Wall Street selling a penny stock. Handle her shit tests with ease.

Leadership: Lead in the large things and the small. This is common advice in the manosphere. Pick the restaurant. When it comes time to do anything together, give her instructions, so you guide the interaction. The key here is that the leadership must result in success. In a marriage, this means leading the family, both wife and children, in a such a way that things turn out well overall.

Playful dominance: This is a key point. If you try to be the overbearing boss, it will not go over well. The wife and children eventually become rebellious. The dominance must be expressed through playfulness. In the case of the wife, the general pattern is to establish a playful vibe, which draws her in emotionally so she drops her previous meltdown or rebellion or whatever prompted the need for the playfully dominant intervention. Then, fuck her. To repeat: She is in a negative pattern that needs to be controlled. You playfully take control of the situation and her mood, shift her attitude around, then fuck her.
It is common to do a very similar thing with an upset child. Rather than try to force them to settle down, you distract them, until they forget what they were upset about and fixate on the new thing. It works the same with women, except that you add the sexual angle.

I have used this pattern with considerable success, even though my pickup game is weak. It manages to avoid the problems in the traditional model, because you use true leadership combined with the playfully dominant approach instead of the iron fist approach. This approach maintains the ability to game her over the years. First, by being ballsy, you remain attractive to her. Secondly, by using playful dominance, you are gaming her, but you are actually waiting until she is emotionally worked up, then turning her emotions in a different direction. Finally, by first getting her laughing with your playful dominance, then fucking her, you defuse her emotional explosion, leaving her drained and relaxed in the aftermath.

One obvious problem is that it becomes difficult when you have young children, and are both working hard and tired all the time. However, this really is just a leadership question. If you establish your career before getting married, and then raise your family in an affordable area, you can greatly ease the pressure of raising a family. Have the wife stay home full time, and provide regular nights out with a baby sitter to watch the kids. Arrange your career so you have the time available to spend with the family.

I'm interested in comments on this model.

Post: #98

(02-21-2016 05:56 AM)scotian Wrote:  This guy should take his wife to a swingers club or a swingers resort in the Caribbean and let his wife get the dick that she craves in a safe environment. I've never participated but one of my best friends in an avid swinger and tells me that a lot of the couples who he hangs with (IE: he fucks the wife while the husband watches) are relatively well adjusted people who like to spice things up a few times a year.

I was laughing out loud at this, man. I'm sure it's true.

I just don't get how a guy can enjoy the whole cuckoldry thing. To me it seems the most degrading thing imaginable...but that's just me.

Post: #99

(02-20-2016 12:11 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  

(02-20-2016 11:53 AM)Sonoma Wrote:  For someone who talks about presenting things in black and white, she just needs to tell him that he should get in shape and that she'll support him along the way.

I really did expect to hate the woman and pity the man, but he's brought this on himself

She won't though. I know plenty of women like this, they get married for financial support and children - then shut down sexually (regardless of what the man looks like) and dare him to divorce so she can walk away with a payday and years of financial support.

She's the definition of Marriage 2.0 - she just hasn't pulled the divorce trigger yet.

It reminds me of a post on reddit I saw the other day.

This guy's stay at home wife stops having sex with him after popping out a couple of kids. They try counselling which she eventually refuses to go to. He tells her he won't live a marriage without sex. She cries and comes back a few days later to suggest an open marriage with the condition that they never have sex with each other again.

He consents and within a couple of months she's banging a new dude. He's a bit upset, but her sidepiece doesn't work out. Then he finds a girl who doesn't want anything serious. Him and his sidepiece agree to be 'sexually exclusive'.

His wife finds out and despite not having had sex with him in over a year and having no sex between them as a condition of their open marriage, starts trying to fuck him. He rebuffs her, reminds her of the conditions to their marriage that she insisted on and asks if she wants to make their marriage a sexual one again.

She says she doesn't want sex with him to be a regular thing but just wants to do it now (read: wants to get him to violate the monogamy agreement he has with his sidepiece). Dude is confused and writes into reddit for advice.

The whole thing is hilarious. With a sexless marriage they should have divorced years ago, but as she's a stay at home mum she doesn't want to give up her provider and he was too clueless to see it.

The post is worth a read if you have time. The comments are pretty good at calling the wife out too, which is a change from that gyno-centric sub.

Post: #100

(02-23-2016 01:23 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

(02-21-2016 05:56 AM)scotian Wrote:  This guy should take his wife to a swingers club or a swingers resort in the Caribbean and let his wife get the dick that she craves in a safe environment. I've never participated but one of my best friends in an avid swinger and tells me that a lot of the couples who he hangs with (IE: he fucks the wife while the husband watches) are relatively well adjusted people who like to spice things up a few times a year.

I was laughing out loud at this, man. I'm sure it's true.

I just don't get how a guy can enjoy the whole cuckoldry thing. To me it seems the most degrading thing imaginable...but that's just me.

I've never done it and probably never will but my buddy has been going to these places for years and bangs a bunch of mostly older, still decent looking married women and the husbands often join in or sit on the side and jerk off and sometimes videotape it. I'm surprised that there isn't more info on here about it but a young, in-shape guy can clean up at swingers resorts.