Post: #26

(01-28-2016 03:22 PM)eradicator Wrote:  

(01-28-2016 03:14 PM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  Interesting ... if you had a baby and the doctor let you know he/she has severe Down's Syndrome would you end its life or raise it?

The moral thing to do would be to end its life.

More interesting question, let's say your wife has had trouble concieving, youve been trying for 15 years and she is now 39 years old and against all odds, you get her pregnant. But the baby has downs. Now what do you do? It has a chance at best to be bagging groceries, probably will be living with you for the rest of it's life. But you wanted to raise a child for the past 15 years, now you get the chance. Your wife is 2 and a half months pregnant, you can still abort.

I would humbly keep the child. I was the fool who decided to take the risk of fertilizing my 39 year old wife's old shriveled eggs that have a 10x higher chance of a retard baby than when she was 24



If I really wanted a child I would have just adopted one after 5 years of trying.

Post: #27

i agree with RIslander. In the big scheme of things it doesn't matter and nobody this time next year will remember or care.

Never wrestled a special needs kid but I have wrestled plenty of girls and women. Would any of you guys go all out to wrestle a girl into submission?

Post: #28

Things like this is how people acquire their 15 mins.

Post: #29

(01-28-2016 04:03 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

(01-28-2016 03:38 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.

But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

- Matthew 6:2-4

^ Whether or not you believe in Catholicism or the Bible, I've increasingly come to believe as I grow older that a large component of it is the collected wisdom of society's psychological observations of the people who make it up.

As such, it doubly-functions as a handbook to warn decent people whom they should be suspicious of the motivations of, and of those whom are a long-term threat to their family or community.

100% agree. I'm not Catholic or even religious at all, but every year I find myself more and more in admiration of the Bible. It's both tremendously practical and benevolent in its own subtle way, more than any other book I've read or seen quoted. It's no wonder that its faith has survived for millennia.

Post: #30

It will be more than 15 minutes of fame for this kid, he will get into the workforce in a year, and when the hiring manager googles his name this will pop up, and there is no way they won't hire him for this. He can effectively bargain his starting salary high as well, regardless of his actual skills/experience.
In this day and age of free-flow information, what company would risk not hiring this kid, and having that get out? Door swings both ways on public opinion (I may have used this incorrectly). With the kid on board, their profits may go up with just his name drop good-company-signaling. "Look, we hired this great compassionate fellow, buy our shit, invest in our company!"

Post: #31

I was on the wrestling team in high school. My coach (who was a high school and college wrestling and football star) was the special Ed teacher at our school. Some of his students, who were borderline or full retarded join the team. They were treated like everyone else. They got their ass beat in practice. The had to compete fairly for a spot on the team. Some made the JV team because we had no one else, but we never even consider telling the opposing team to go easy on them, or God forbid take a fall. They got their ass beat, but that was reality. But they stayed with it ( some for 4 years) because we treated them fairly and they liked the camaraderie of being on the team. Celebrating team victories with the team, even sharing the pain of losses, singing humorous songs on the bus the full 9, good natured ball busting, etc.

I lost track with these guys and they're old men now. Probably living in an institution or halfway house or something. But I bet they look on those days and friendships fondly. I bet it was the most meaningful thing they did with their lives.

And no one had to patronize them or roll over for them. They knew the score - they were going to be treated like everyone else. That's what made the experience meaningful for them. Being a real person among peers with less challenges in life.

Post: #32

"The last act is the greatest treason. To do the right deed for the wrong reason."

T S Eliot, Murder in the Cathedral.

Post: #33

(01-28-2016 06:50 PM)Dusty Wrote:  I was on the wrestling team in high school. My coach (who was a high school and college wrestling and football star) was the special Ed teacher at our school. Some of his students, who were borderline or full retarded join the team. They were treated like everyone else. They got their ass beat in practice. The had to compete fairly for a spot on the team. Some made the JV team because we had no one else, but we never even consider telling the opposing team to go easy on them, or God forbid take a fall. They got their ass beat, but that was reality. But they stayed with it ( some for 4 years) because we treated them fairly and they liked the camaraderie of being on the team. Celebrating team victories with the team, even sharing the pain of losses, singing humorous songs on the bus the full 9, good natured ball busting, etc.

I lost track with these guys and they're old men now. Probably living in an institution or halfway house or something. But I bet they look on those days and friendships fondly. I bet it was the most meaningful thing they did with their lives.

And no one had to patronize them or roll over for them. They knew the score - they were going to be treated like everyone else. That's what made the experience meaningful for them. Being a real person among peers with less challenges in life.

Would not surprise me if they became successful due to the fact of experiencing hardship at a young age and learning to deal with it.

Post: #34

Another feel good story:

Quote:Model With Down Syndrome Treads the Catwalk in New York
"It was fun," she says

Correction appended, September 27, 2015

Madeline Stuart, an 18-year-old model with Down Syndrome, made her debut on the New York Fashion Week runway Sunday.

The redheaded teen from Brisbane, Australia showed off styles in a show at Vanderbilt Hall in Grand Central Terminal hosted by label FTL Moda with the Christopher and Dana Reeve Foundation and Global Disability Inclusion.

http://time.com/4033572/down-syndrome-mo...ne-stuart/

Post: #35

(01-28-2016 04:04 PM)MiscBrah Wrote:  

(01-28-2016 03:14 PM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  Interesting ... if you had a baby and the doctor let you know he/she has severe Down's Syndrome would you end its life or raise it?

The moral thing to do would be to end its life.

This right here is why I love this forum. Say this practically anywhere else and you're getting crucified.

Richard Dawkins did, and was.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014...ome-foetus

Post: #36

(01-28-2016 09:20 PM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  

(01-28-2016 04:04 PM)MiscBrah Wrote:  

(01-28-2016 03:14 PM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  Interesting ... if you had a baby and the doctor let you know he/she has severe Down's Syndrome would you end its life or raise it?

The moral thing to do would be to end its life.

This right here is why I love this forum. Say this practically anywhere else and you're getting crucified.

Richard Dawkins did, and was.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014...ome-foetus

It would be the hardest decision on Earth to make, and I'd deeply regret it for the rest of my life, but I'd abort. Insofar as it's mitigation, amniocentesis can be conducted pretty early in the pregnancy -- either at or after the first ultrasound -- which nails to a fairly high degree of probability whether Downs will result. I've seen what it's like caring for an intellectually disabled child: a set of parents reasonably close to me who have been looking after theirs for forty years. Not Downs, but similar disability: basically down to the level of an 8-9 year old child. Downs Syndrome is a dreadful burden to saddle a child with, and it's a life sentence for the parents (assuming, of course, they do wind up caring for that child and the kid doesn't wind up in a broken home, which is worse.) Because the parents have the right to abort, they therefore have the right to decide whether or not to inflict that on their kid. You put that kid behind the eight ball for their entire life.

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #37

(01-28-2016 03:26 PM)EDantes Wrote:  

(01-28-2016 03:14 PM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  The moral thing to do would be to end its life.

No reason why that would be the moral thing to do; sounds eugenical to me.

Plus hypothetically if we eliminated all disabilities via abortion or eugenics, then why stop there? Why not start eliminating anyone who's below-average in height, or of under-genius IQ, etc.

Me I'm fine with abortion during he earlier stages because the human brain and consciousness is not present immediately after conception, but once it's a clearly conscious being I'd only support abortion to save the mother's life, or possibly in the case of terminal fetal deformities, but that wouldn't include survivable disabilities.

While I agree with you, all I can say is....

Bust out a datasheet nigga.

Post: #38

(01-28-2016 04:15 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  Ridiculously misplaced "altruism" here. Just proves to what extent men have been conditioned to surrender their identity and achievements for nonsense.

"Allowing" a disabled person to "defeat" a great athlete is a grotesque and maudlin attempt to show compassion.

If this wrestler was truly interested in helping this person, all he had to do was donate to his charity, or perform some other service for him.

What you do NOT do is prostitute yourself and throw away your gifts out of some warped notions of idealism.

Wow. What a shame.

And how condescending! If I was the disabled guy, I would be full of contempt for such behavior.

If I was in his position, I would probably do the same. The idea of going out and picking a fight with a disabled person doesn't appeal to me.

Post: #39

The reality is why is this even getting attention? The school's top wrestler, who's probably a high ranking member of the cool kids club, decides to do something nice for a disabled kid and make his day. Good on him but it isn't news.

Post: #40

(01-28-2016 04:31 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

Damn, from that chart you're safer fucking your own sister than a woman in her 40s.