Post: #51

I'm almost certain this is a dupe.

(01-24-2016 11:31 PM)Hades Wrote:  I don't like that atheism has been hijacked by poorly socialized childish men, liberal virtue signalers, ugly fat women, redditors, fedoras, etc; (go to any local Secular Student Alliance group and you'll see exactly what's up) but I don't consider myself religious in any sense.

Yeah the problem with these bunch is that they're atheist without substitution. If you're going to reject a religion and it's basic moral teachings, you need to have and understand of objective morals in its place. However for most of these types, they're simply too stupid or weak to understand the purpose of morals, let alone derive them themselves.

But aside from this, I think we're asking the wrong question. "Do you believe in god?" is not the root question. The root question is "what is the nature of religion?". Religion has a biological root (with sociology in between), not the other way around.

Post: #52

There are two ways I look at it. It's either trivial matter or the most important thing in the world.

If God doesn't exist and the universe came into existence by happenstance, we are highly evolved meat machines comprised of chemicals and atoms. Life is totally meaningless and the moral structure we have built is total fantasy. Our brains are just fizzing and all our actions are defined by the type of fizz.
If one meat computer takes an axe and puts it through another meat computer, so what. If one meat computer is fizzing theistically and the other atheistically, who cares, it's worthless. If you take a bottle of coke and a bottle of pepsi, shake them up, open and let them fizz everywhere, it doesn't make sense to call one fizz true and one fizz false. Which is no different to our meat computer chemical brain fizz.

If God does exist and He has the qualities commonly attributed to the Christian God - Omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, totally just, personal, loving, infinite in perfection, eternal, absolute, gracious, merciful etc then it is the most important thing for any person walking the earth.

If the Christian God does exist, and we are created in His image, then our earthly lives are simply one massive trial run in preparation for the afterlife. If there is a judgement day, the perfectly just God will judge us based on earthy actions and we will suffer the consequences of sinning against the eternal creator of the universe. That is of course, unless you're a Christian and have accepted the free gift of salvation through Jesus Christ who took the consequences upon himself out of love, that our slate be wiped clean and therefore be permitted to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Post: #53

No, but I believe in the Devil. If there is a Higher Power or Supreme Deity he is not a nice guy. The world is a fucked up place and whoever is up there is a sadist.

Post: #54

(01-24-2016 11:57 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  I'm almost certain this is a dupe.

(01-24-2016 11:31 PM)Hades Wrote:  I don't like that atheism has been hijacked by poorly socialized childish men, liberal virtue signalers, ugly fat women, redditors, fedoras, etc; (go to any local Secular Student Alliance group and you'll see exactly what's up) but I don't consider myself religious in any sense.

Yeah the problem with these bunch is that they're atheist without substitution. If you're going to reject a religion and it's basic moral teachings, you need to have and understand of objective morals in its place. However for most of these types, they're simply too stupid or weak to understand the purpose of morals, let alone derive them themselves.

But aside from this, I think we're asking the wrong question. "Do you believe in god?" is not the root question. The root question is "what is the nature of religion?". Religion has a biological root (with sociology in between), not the other way around.

Whether or not morality is subjective would be a good question too. So far I haven't found any good proof of objective morality, just utilitarianism.

Post: #55

Yes, I for sure believe in God. This consciousness that we all have, the ability to think, experience emotions, apply intelligence, make decisions, etc, to say its due to the interactions of some complex molecules within us is preposterous. Matter i.e. atoms, molecules, etc, is lifeless. To put it together in some highly complex way and have it suddenly generate the capability to produce life, and then say that it is because of their interactions between one and another, is not logical. That just does not make sense. Lifeless structures interacting with each other, "complicatedly", and poof, you have life. Nah, not true mate. The consciousness that we all have is beyond matter, its beyond the bag of chemicals that we are. Despite us having essentially the same chemical makeup, we're all highly different in our appearance, opinions, disposition, behaviour, and so on. Don't you think that this is incredible? So the question is, what gives us consciousness? Where does it come from? To me there has to be some creator, some being who devised this incredible invention that is life or conciousness, and the living being.

Post: #56

(01-25-2016 12:04 AM)Sooth Wrote:  There are two ways I look at it. It's either trivial matter or the most important thing in the world.

If God doesn't exist and the universe came into existence by happenstance, we are highly evolved meat machines comprised of chemicals and atoms. Life is totally meaningless and the moral structure we have built is total fantasy. Our brains are just fizzing and all our actions are defined by the type of fizz.
If one meat computer takes an axe and puts it through another meat computer, so what. If one meat computer is fizzing theistically and the other atheistically, who cares, it's worthless. If you take a bottle of coke and a bottle of pepsi, shake them up, open and let them fizz everywhere, it doesn't make sense to call one fizz true and one fizz false. Which is no different to our meat computer chemical brain fizz.

If God does exist and He has the qualities commonly attributed to the Christian God - Omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, totally just, personal, loving, infinite in perfection, eternal, absolute, gracious, merciful etc then it is the most important thing for any person walking the earth.

If the Christian God does exist, and we are created in His image, then our earthly lives are simply one massive trial run in preparation for the afterlife. If there is a judgement day, the perfectly just God will judge us based on earthy actions and we will suffer the consequences of sinning against the eternal creator of the universe. That is of course, unless you're a Christian and have accepted the free gift of salvation through Jesus Christ who took the consequences upon himself out of love, that our slate be wiped clean and therefore be permitted to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Great post. I'm not a fan of Sye ten Bruggencate or his presuppositional style at all, but I think you've summed the dilemma up well.

Post: #57

No, I do not believe in God. Most people believe in God because that's what they were taught or what their parents believe. Stepping outside of the framework instilled upon you and into reality - even if it's a painful truth, I consider to be red pill.

I actually come from a Christian family and went to Catholic school. I didn't exactly realize it at the time, but I never believed in God or religion from a very early age. When I was in elementary school, my class had a priest come in to talk about the faith. He ended up making some points about the blood turning into wine, how Jesus died for us, how we will go to heaven if we believe in him. I ended up calling bullshit on all those points, which led to my parents getting a call. My parents didn't say much, but they continued taking me to mass and raising me as a Catholic. When I was in high school the topic finally came up again. I basically told my parents that I didn't believe any of it, and pushed them on what they actually believe. They eventually said "look, ok fine, it's probably bullshit. But it's a community thing and it can help you be a good person." We haven't talked about it again really. I'll still accompany them on days like Christmas to attend mass, since they like that sort of thing. That's it though.

The thing about religion is that it's an emotional thing. You'll have people who believe because they want to think deceased family members are in heaven. You'll have people who believe because their whole family/community does, and they want to be a part of it. You'll have people who simply need to have an explanation to why things are the way they are and why they should be good people. I've learned that you will never change these peoples' minds. A person has to want to closely examine their belief system themselves, otherwise their mind won't budge.

I really don't care who is religious and who is not - as long as it isn't forced on me. That said, I do think many Christian values are a good thing. If I had to pick to live among a neighborhood of Muslims or Christians, I'd pick the Christians in a heartbeat. Mostly because the religion is reformed, with many followers being "cafeteria Christians" that generally have a live and let live attitude.

I do find it a little odd when I meet believers under the age of 30 or 40 today. For our parents or grandparents generation, when they were presented with a holy book and the truth of a religion, they had no way to fact check it. They would assume the adults had their facts in order. But today's young people can do a quick google search to find out the origins of all this stuff. It doesn't take much to discover that the holy books were written by people; they didn't descend from the sky. And everyone knows people will make shit up, lie, serve their own purpose, etc. I guess ultimately, however, people aren't going to have an inclination to find reasons not to believe what they believe.

Post: #58

Yes, I believe in God. The Father, the Almighty; maker of Heaven and Earth, of all that is seen and unseen. I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only son of the Father; eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, True God from True God; begotten, not made; (consubstantial) of one being with the Father; through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation, he came down from heaven. By the power of the Holy Spirit, he became incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried; on the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into Heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will never end. I believe in the Holy Spirit; the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified; he has spoken through the prophets. I believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church; I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins; I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #59

Dr. Howard quote :[Yes.

Even if God isn't real, dedicating my life to an imaginary, invisible, infallible, benevolent master is more comforting than putting my trust in money, other people, cars or intoxicants.

To be shown proof that God doesn't exist would simply mean that I've done some charitable works for benevolence's sake, tried to live by a moral code and have the same bruised ego at being proven wrong as a few other million christians, then I die and turn to dust, who cares. Compare that to being shown proof that God DOES exist, I'd feel like quite the asshole having to get on the down escalator of eternity because I was too stubborn to accept a free gift from Jesus.

The opportunity cost to believe in God is pretty low. A lot less costly than say, believing that your wife is your soulmate and only reason for living and then being cucked.

If its not a woman we pedestalize, its something else. We all have our idols, be they immaterial or material.] quote
Indeed the opportunity cost is low even before examining the plausibility of God.

The bible clearly says you will become dust( Genesis) and there is no afterlife, it is some Christians told to believe Gehenna is eternal hell fire, your soul goes to heaven, your soul exists after death, but in ecclesiastes 9 it even says you know of nothing after death. But the New Testament does give hope of resurrection and everlasting life.
Bible teaches moral stories/ histories and can keep women from being sloots and wel" behaved.
Why wouldn't you respect your creator if you know he exists?

Post: #60

(01-25-2016 01:30 AM)PrtSc Wrote:  It doesn't take much to discover that the holy books were written by people

It was never claimed otherwise, that's why most the books of the Bible (especially the NT) bear the author's name, no Google search is going to disprove that they weren't inspired by God though. You'd probably have known basic stuff like that if your parents themselves had been actual Christians, rather than "cafeteria Christians" faking it for social reasons. And, then again your parents can't bear all the blame. Heterodoxy itself is in awful shape, even the current Pope of the Latin schism seems to be cafeteria Christian, hiding behind his walled off city state, lecturing the western nations on letting themselves be overrun by open immigration and preaching Global Warming.

Post: #61

Quote Paracelsus [Yes, I believe in God. The Father, the Almighty; maker of Heaven and Earth, of all that is seen and unseen. I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only son of the Father; eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, True God from True God; begotten, not made; (consubstantial) of one being with the Father; through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation, he came down from heaven. By the power of the Holy Spirit, he became incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried; on the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into Heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will never end. I believe in the Holy Spirit; the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified; he has spoken through the prophets. I believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church; I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins; I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.] quote by Paracelsus
The bible says God is greater than Jesus son of God, Jehovah and the trinity doctorine didn't become mainstream after centuries. Doesn't Jesus pray to God and Jesus was never referred as God but as a god (authority) in the bible.

Post: #62

God is the 'one-ness'.

God is Love.

Don't look at God as some central being, that may be located at any one particular location.

God goes from 'nowhere to now-here'.

I envisage God more as a universal consciousness or an energy than anything else.

& I tell you this. We are all Gods. Made in his image.

Remember you are a soul having the experience of being human (not the other way round)

Our lives are just a hologram matrix we perceive & experience.
A universe of our creation.

Money, Game, Fame, Family all these things are mere distraction

The end game is to remember who we really are.

Post: #63

The bible says created in his image not literally but the qualities of God.

Post: #64

(Today 10:30 PM)PrtSc Wrote:
It doesn't take much to discover that the holy books were written by people

It was never claimed otherwise, that's why most the books of the Bible (especially the NT) bear the author's name, no Google search is going to disprove that they weren't inspired by God though. You'd probably have known basic stuff like that if your parents themselves had been actual Christians, rather than "cafeteria Christians" faking it for social reasons. And, then again your parents can't bear all the blame. Heterodoxy itself is in awful shape, even the current Pope of the Latin schism seems to be cafeteria Christian, hiding behind his walled off city state, lecturing the western nations on letting themselves be overrun by open immigration and preaching Global Warming.]

The Vatican church has so many babylonian and Egyptian symbols. It has symbol of Osiris' dick, the obelisk. It has the cross widespread in polytheistic religions ie T in Tammunz , babylonian.
The trinity is akin to Sumerian/Babylonian enki, damkina/ninhursag and his descendant Marduk. or egyptian Osiris, Isis, Horus, the Hindu trio.

Post: #65

(01-24-2016 07:20 PM)The Father Wrote:  I'm at an "in between" spot right now...I want to believe in something...I'm just not sure what or how.

I've always felt there was some serious brain power on this board...I'd sincerely welcome your perspectives on why I should, or should not, believe in God.

My 2 cents - the best way to strengthen your faith is to practice spirituality through prayer and meditation. Through prayer and meditation you can not only increase your faith but actually realize God, i.e. know him personally.

The simplest form of meditation is japa meditation. Google it. You can choose a mantra to do japa meditation. Japa is repetition of a mantra.

You can also want to join some meditation group in your area. They can guide and teach you in the beginning. When you meditate with experienced meditators, you will inwardly learn from them. They can teach you how to begin meditation, but your own inner form of meditation you will learn after several years of meditation.

In meditation, regularity and punctuality are important for rapid progress. You can choose, say, 7.00 a.m. The best time is from 3.00 to 4.00 a.m., which is called ‘hour of God’. It is easier to meditate at that time as the world is sleeping and there are no inner or outer disturbances.

It also helps to stick to a vegetarian diet and abstain from alcohol, as eating meats agitates the mind and alcohol (as well as other drugs) destroys subtle nerves, which are needed for enlightenment.

You can also devise a meditation altar to meditate at. On the altar, you can put a picture or statute of a deity of your choice, burn incense, put a candle.

Although enlightenment per se can take many incarnations (lives), you will feel the benefits of meditation from the very beginning.

An example of a home altar:

Post: #66

(01-25-2016 02:12 AM)avantgarde Wrote:  The bible says created in his image not literally but the qualities of God.

Do you really want to reargue the Reformation, or shall we get back on topic now?

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #67

@avantgarde, quote tags look like this: [q u o t e] *quoted text* [/q u o t e]

Just without the spaces. Those posts are a chore to read.

Post: #68

[Quote] Paracelsus [quote]
Well, we can debate about things.

Post: #69

(01-25-2016 02:20 AM)avantgarde Wrote:  The Vatican church has so many babylonian and Egyptian symbols. It has symbol of Osiris' dick, the obelisk. It has the cross widespread in polytheistic religions ie T in Tammunz , babylonian.
The trinity is akin to Sumerian/Babylonian enki, damkina/ninhursag and his descendant Marduk. or egyptian Osiris, Isis, Horus, the Hindu trio.

This is such a mess it's hard to know where to start.

Maybe lay off the Acharya S bullshit first?

Post: #70

Quote: pride male [No, but I believe in the Devil. If there is a Higher Power or Supreme Deity he is not a nice guy. The world is a fucked up place and whoever is up there is a sadist.]

Lol, the bible does say satan rules this system, but he didn't create it and his rule won't be long . Yes, the bible says he is sadistic.

Post: #71

Short Answer:

Yes I do as a Romanian Christian Orthodox

Long Answer:

Yes, and it's something I've thought about quite a bit. I grew up in a former communist country being born right after democracy came here, so even though over 99% of the country identifies as Christian and we had religion class in school it's not something that I cared about much since I only went to church on easter, out of tradition more so then anything else. Most people here don't really give a damn to put much thought into it, and frankly I didn't either with one major exception of my mother destroying any real chance I had of really believing in the afterlife after my grandmother died.

I want to believe there is an afterlife but I have major doubts about it even now.

Still believing in God? Only started to really ask myself that question as I got in mid teens and was interacting with people around the world in games/forums/teamspeak. Muslims/Atheists/Agnostics/Christians, I debated that subject with all of them.

Ultimately my conclusion after looking long and hard at it is that I find it incredibly hard to believe there isn't a Supreme Being that created the universe. Am I to look to at the universe, as grand and complex as it is and say it's all by random chance? I find THAT much harder to accept then the idea a Supreme Being made it all.

As for why I believe in the Abrahamic God, that's because I found it the most reasonable out of all of them, though there's a lot of bias here I'll admit, and I'm a Christian because I'm quite liberal in terms of sexuality and free speech and Christianity is far more liberal then Judaism or Islam. Besides Jesus as a leader appeals to me.

I don't care much for doctrine or Church laws. Only thing I care about are the ten commandments and I try and follow them as I view them as very good rules to live your life by ( don't steal, kill, commit adultery for instance ).

As for being a Romanian Christian Orthodox, that's because the rites of the Orthodox Church, as well as it's liberal stance on a number of issues ( like divorce ) and the design of their churches is what I prefer. The Romanian part is due to a national identity as well.

Finally as one great man once said: "Faith can work miracles while it's lack does nothing." I see no benefit at all of not believing in God. It won't set me free

Post: #72

(01-25-2016 02:03 AM)Byzantium Wrote:  

(01-25-2016 01:30 AM)PrtSc Wrote:  It doesn't take much to discover that the holy books were written by people

It was never claimed otherwise, that's why most the books of the Bible (especially the NT) bear the author's name, no Google search is going to disprove that they weren't inspired by God though. You'd probably have known basic stuff like that if your parents themselves had been actual Christians, rather than "cafeteria Christians" faking it for social reasons. And, then again your parents can't bear all the blame. Heterodoxy itself is in awful shape, even the current Pope of the Latin schism seems to be cafeteria Christian, hiding behind his walled off city state, lecturing the western nations on letting themselves be overrun by open immigration and preaching Global Warming.

I should have been more clear. I meant when I was 5 or 6 years old. I did of course come to understand that the authors' were supposedly inspired. That actually set my bs detector off even more. Same thing with the Quran, with the idea that God recited it to Mohamed, who then had others record the words to paper. A google search about the people who wrote the texts and the history of them is what I find to dismiss the validity of them having any factual basis.

Post: #73

I'm a rational, scientific person - that's why I believe in God.

Specifically, I'm Roman Catholic - but sedevacantist.

Post: #74

So if there is a god, there must also be the direct opposite of this god. You're telling me demons and undead are real? Never seen one, never heard of one unless it was some gypsy mouthing off about curses

I don't have problems with people believing in religion, its when people start proclaiming it to be the only way and hell forbid anyone else.

Post: #75

(01-25-2016 08:23 AM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  So if there is a god, there must also be the direct opposite of this god.

Why? Unless, of course, you have similar ideas to the Bogomils, Cathars, or Albigensians, in which case, well...

God save us from people who mean well. -storm