Post: #26

(01-11-2016 05:07 AM)XXL Wrote:  My solution to this nonsense:
Since people get all butthurt about rep point number and it skews perception about who's who it's better to scratch that system. Let the content defend itself. Besides, I noticed that people often rep a guy justifying it that they like what he posts in general or that they like the specific post and provide a link. This is what LIKES are for. So let's stick to LIKES only. It's better because it shows which specific content users appreciate. It's more accurate in my opinion. Then we could have one "hall of fame" updated thread with most liked threads/replies. Done.

That expirement has been tried before.

Anyways, if you guys take away my rep points I'm going to go jump off a building.

It's the only thing I have worth living for.

To address the issue being discussed, I didn't really take Moody as someone trying to posture as an expert.

He writes in an authoritative language because he's a strong writer, but one thing I like about his posts is that he admits his fails and weaknesses - and then he relates what's he's learned through these things. I think sometimes (like with the walkout thread), the answers aren't black and white, and there's nothing wrong with jumping in to disagree if you have a different opinion.

To me, he sounds like someone who has struggled with women in the past and learned a thing or two to evolve.

There are probably a lot of his posts I haven't read though.

Also, it's very possible to be seasoned at seduction and still have some misguided ideas. No man in himself is an entire research team, so we can learn from our experiences, but it's all based on circumstantial data. The lessons we draw from them are not necessarily univerally conclusive, and if you know the basic laws of statistics you know that in a percentage of the cases even the so-called universal truths will not serve you a full 100% of the time (or perhaps even anything close to it).

I know a lot of stuff I do with women goes directly against accepted concepts in the pua community, and I still fuck up all the time to this day, so I'm still learning about women (and always will be). I have a lot of dysfunctional moments, and I'll have many more.

What I do works for me just fine (even the dysfuntion), though, so I roll with it and share my experiences when I can. We'll all continue to make errors and change our flawed ideas as we go through life.

I get why his recent posts might rub some of you wrong, but my point is this stuff is not exactly a science - far from it, actually.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #27

I was quite overzealous as a newbie. I was starting a thread every five minutes.

Post: #28

(01-11-2016 05:07 AM)XXL Wrote:  I don't see what the big deal is anyway. When I see some guy's high rep I go "oh he's kind of popular". That's it. But it doesn't mean he's always on point. As in life, popular does not have to equal very good.

I got over 50. I don't care. You could reset my rep points to zero and it would make no impact on what I posted so far. In fact let's do this.. I'm officially asking the admin to reset my rep points. I want to have zero again and draw people into my posts by my advice, solutions, problem solved, etc, not by some silly green number next to my avatar. I have a lot of good stuff to share. Abundance mentality baby ; )

My solution:
Since people get all butthurt about rep point number and it skews perception about who's who it's better to scratch that system. Let the content defend itself. Besides, I noticed that people often rep a guy justifying it that they like what he posts in general or that they like the specific post and provide a link. This is what LIKES are for. So let's stick to LIKES only. It's better because it shows which specific content users appreciate. It's more accurate in my opinion. Then we could have one "hall of fame" updated thread with most liked threads/replies. Done.

Those titles like "chubby chaser" etc are flawed too. The names imply that the less posts one has the less important he is or less status he has. Which is really dumb. Over 1500 posts count does not make me a true player. Scratch that shit already.

Roosh 'dumped' the system before but got a lot of complaints about it. Recently read that thread and both parties made some good points about dumping/keeping.

Anyway, like I said before, if someone is posting rubbish we'll all find out soon enough. Same goes for posting good stuff.

EDIT: Beyond Borders beat me to it.
/thread-11058...ght=System

Post: #29

(01-09-2016 10:00 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  I've got to say Hank, that I'm pretty bored of these verbose, re-hashed, rep-chasing threads of yours.

Ebook incoming I presume.

Got any original material?

If you don't like it then don't read it. No need for smart aleck comments. Let's hear some words of wisdom from you.

Post: #30

I appreciate the call out. I wouldn't call it out like Cobra and Crash did, but I appreciate it.

Ying and yang to everything. This is the beauty to different styles of writing.
- Walmart has low prices, but the checkout line is slow and the clientele suck.
- My favorite watering hole has cheap drinks and is familiar and comfortable, but the service isn't great.
- I like personalized posts based on experience, but they can be rambling at times.
- I like well written formal posts like Hanks, but they're not personalized and can feel scripted.
- I have no doubt my posts can be fragmented and rambling at times, but I hope some gems show up every once in a while for others entertainment/advice.

Hank, I like your posts, quick reminders of re-hashed stuff (almost all non-personlized info is a rehash, we all do it) and very well written and easy to read, but with your style and frequency of starting threads, I know what I'm clicking on when I see his name under a new thread.

I don't think Hank's writing style is a big deal, and I don't think it's a big deal to comment on his writing style.

This call out is why I love this forum. We're men, and I hope we can all take criticism with a grain of salt, examine and think about it, and move on. No butt hurt.

Post: #31

^ Although, my butt does hurt a slight bit...

No homo, of course.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #32

Only on with men like us, we can discuss this rationally and logically.

Yes some of Hank's writings are rehashed game/life principals, but everyone on this thread has pretty much admitted - he's a great writer.

I think his stories are easy to read lessons, thought exercises, etc.

BUT I do understand why other members are questioning his writings or have constructive criticisms.

Shit man, this entire thread made me realize one thing - I need to get better at writing and telling stories.

Post: #33

Hank is in no way an expert and never claimed to be. Most of us know that.

What makes him so popular among us guys still developing our game (by forum standards), is the fact that he used to be a clueless beta who got burned by women and has turned that around to become fairly successful with them in a relatively short time frame.

He's more relatable and inspirational for newbies as compared to players who're on that next-level shit & whose game knowledge and sexual exploits can be too far fetched from a beginners reality. Hence all the rep points.

I do however agree that some of his threads are a bit too verbose and repetitive. Didn't strike me as a rep-begging scheme however. More like an advanced beginner in the game trying to internalize red pill concepts by outwardly repeating them in the form of threads.

I like him so far. Leave Moody alone!

Post: #34

Here is the thing...

Making money or starting a "game blog" has zero upside for me, and a lot of potential downside. Writing about these topics will offend members of the legal community, clients, and SJWs. Remember the coffee shop guys who had their store closed down? That is drama I don't need or want. Although it's not "for profit", at least I get calls from my law blog.

As for "selling something", we have the same issue in the legal community. There are lawyers out there, usually failed lawyers, who start legal blogs to generate business or become a "legal consultant" (whatever the fuck that is). They detract from the community. They're usually writing about topics that are stupid - how lawyers need iPads, Twitter, or to do yoga. Then you have other legal bloggers who simply write because they have something to say.

That said, this is fun. I enjoy writing about it. It was something I've experienced for a few years and haven't had an outlet to jot my thoughts down, other than text exchanges with my buddies. This has proved to be therapeutic, and I've enjoyed everyone's insights, even if you disagree with me. Like my posts, hate my posts, none of it's personal. Anytime anyone writes anything be prepared to take criticism.

As for me, I'm just a commenter in my mid-30s, trying to figure out dating in the modern world. After getting divorced about 5 years ago, I was in for a brutal awakening concerning the current state of affairs. I started out with a notch count of three, one of whom was my ex-wife, the other two LTRs in high school.

Things are a lot different now, but it's been a weird ride. This forum, RooshV, and a lot of others have had a dramatic impact on living a life of choice and possibilities.

Post: #35

(01-11-2016 03:26 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  Here is the thing...

Making money or starting a "game blog" has zero upside for me, and a lot of potential downside. Writing about these topics will offend members of the legal community, clients, and SJWs. Remember the coffee shop guys who had their store closed down? That is drama I don't need or want. Although it's not "for profit", at least I get calls from my law blog.

As for "selling something", we have the same issue in the legal community. There are lawyers out there, usually failed lawyers, who start legal blogs to generate business or become a "legal consultant" (whatever the fuck that is). They detract from the community. They're usually writing about topics that are stupid - how lawyers need iPads, Twitter, or to do yoga. Then you have other legal bloggers who simply write because they have something to say.

That said, this is fun. I enjoy writing about it. It was something I've experienced for a few years and haven't had an outlet to jot my thoughts down, other than text exchanges with my buddies. This has proved to be therapeutic, and I've enjoyed everyone's insights, even if you disagree with me. Like my posts, hate my posts, none of it's personal. Anytime anyone writes anything be prepared to take criticism.

As for me, I'm just a commenter in my mid-30s, trying to figure out dating in the modern world. After getting divorced about 5 years ago, I was in for a brutal awakening concerning the current state of affairs. I started out with a notch count of three, one of whom was my ex-wife, the other two LTRs in high school.

Things are a lot different now, but it's been a weird ride. This forum, RooshV, and a lot of others have had a dramatic impact on living a life of choice and possibilities.

It is good to hear about your progression and how instrumental this community has been on it.

Criticism does come with the territory, but hopefully we can do it here constructively in a way that advances the collective knowledge of Game and lifestyle.

As per previous discussions on meeting other members, it is not necessary to make a contribution and it is up to each man to decide on his own comfort and desire to do so. With that said, I have had the privilege of meeting great men who have taught me quite a bit. It has also been very rewarding to "mentor" members and share my experiences from a long gaming career. I have developed strong friendships that transcend just Gaming. In fact meeting other Forum members, has been the best part of my experience since joining RVF.

Post: #36

I was thinking there should be a minimum amount of posts needed before you can rep someone else. What weight does a rep point have if it's from a "male feminist"?


Here's an example: /thread-52294.html


That kid got repped x3 for posting some whining drivel.

Post: #37

I don't remember but if scratching rep points experiment failed then it only tells me that rvf users worry about minor things that don't really matter on a board like that.

I'm not against the idea of REP actually I just view it differently. To me rep point is reward for overall positive consistent contribution to the forum, not something you give another user just because he wrote one good post or datasheet. It's more like a grammy award for best album of the year. I'll give rep points to guys I learned from the most throughout past year. That point actually means something and indicates real value.

I think it's a good idea to introduce a limit so that you're able to give rep points only twice a year to those users who had the most impact on you. As of now the possibility of getting rep points for a cool story or one good thread is just silly and doesn't reflect the actual reputation of users.

Post: #38

I knew I would get flak.

@scorpion I have to disagree with your views here. I think there is obviously relevance to forum reputation whether they're reflected through rep points or not. It’s not about how many each person has because this just implies more rep points translate into a higher level of authority. This view is not only false, but also an amateurish one by its very nature. There is a difference between the credibility of a good writer because he writes well and the credibility of a cool, decent and well put together guy that has been met by other forum members, vouched for and has gamed with. To reiterate again, game is not just about viewpoints. It’s about experience, which is blood and sweat and hitting the pavement rather than just hitting the keyboard. On a forum that is primarily about game, that may or may not translate to levels of credibility. A meetup or “vouch” by another forum member TURNS that experience into credibility; hence it adds more value to that person’s writings than he would otherwise have when he comes back to the keyboard to memorialize his musings on the pavement. Hence a newbie like birthday cat with a low amount of rep points but has met and been vouched for by other credible members, is more legit and credible himself to me than someone with a lot of posts. Again, I am just putting all of this out there as a caution to newbies, not hate or envy as you suggest.

As far as evidence, I’m not sure what scorpion is saying or implying that we need because there is no witch hunt and again, there is no hate. I mentioned many times that there were alternate opinions differing from Hank’s from a known forum player I can vouch for in addition to specifically being warned by the forum moderator in his first thread. This may not be overwhelming “evidence” against him but believe me, it’s more than zero and it’s enough for me to question the level of his credibility. That’s why I haven’t been easy. Not because he’s sharing his views or posting on the forum. I have no problem with that. So when someone says there is zero evidence in light of this, it provides additional support that is more or less undeserved, especially coming from someone like scorpion. It could just be that people did not read my posts fully. And that’s okay.

So, it’s the combination of what I explained so far that causes me to caution OP's credibility. This comes from a place of genuine obligation to protect the credibility of the forum itself. I certainly am not asking for a ban on Hank just to be clear. I don’t believe Hank is a troll but I’m just not sure that the credibility offered to him holds as much value as it seems to. On the other hand, I do believe that it's unfortunate that Hank has also become a guinea pig in a larger discussion about reputation and credibility.

For me, the forum, and the local tribes are a set of men that meet and share ideas and values. It’s not just about the post count and reps from posts. It’s about actual connections as well as credibility and trust built from those connections. It’s about being part of a real community and helping each other out through action as well as discussion. We do not represent a bunch of keyboard jockeys; so it’s hard for me to believe our reputation system (not necessarily "rep point" system) should reflect that either. As members of the forum, and moreover, men, we should know the difference. Look, it’s cool to just post on the forum and be a respected “poster,” but I think it’s far more worth its weight in gold to be a vouched forum member that posts AND actually demonstrates his experience. I'm not hating on scorpion or anyone that does not see this value. It's just that my values regarding thr subject (which I truly believe I share with others here) are just different.

I wasn't going to initially respond due to such differing opinions (which frankly surprise me) but I do not want to set a precedent here that devalues reputation and credibility, especially in a game forum. That being said, I respect people's views and hence I am happy to go easy on Hank. All I ask is people see the other side, challenge viewpoints and give credibility the relevance it actually deserves rather than it currently gets.

This is just a voicing of my opinion. I fully understand that I am partly responsible for beating this horse to death. I also believe some of you may not see the point. That's quite okay. I really don’t want to take away from the topic at hand. However, I would like to stick to my guns with dignity.

Post: #39

(01-12-2016 08:42 AM)Cobra Wrote:  As far as evidence, I’m not sure what scorpion is saying or implying that we need because there is no witch hunt and again, there is no hate. I mentioned many times that there were alternate opinions differing from Hank’s from a known forum player I can vouch for in addition to specifically being warned by the forum moderator in his first thread. This may not be overwhelming “evidence” against him but believe me, it’s more than zero and it’s enough for me to question the level of his credibility. That’s why I haven’t been easy. Not because he’s sharing his views or posting on the forum. I have no problem with that. So when someone says there is zero evidence in light of this, it provides additional support that is more or less undeserved, especially coming from someone like scorpion. It could just be that people did not read my posts fully. And that’s okay.

You guys are taking these reps way too seriously. I don't believe the mod you are referring too (Tuth) has met anyone. Yet he has some of the best threads on the forum before he became a mod. I wish he would be demoted so he would post more. haha Is Tuth not legit because he didn't meet anyone or is legit because you agree with his posts... or being a mod magically makes you a legit player?

There has been guys who met others and then were banned.

I have seen one guy get 20+ rep points for posting celeb naked pictures.

Cobra, it's fine if you don't agree with someone. You seem to be trying to down play others by meetups and other requirements.

Hank may be regurgitating old stuff because the old stuff works. You seem to have a problem with Hank and not so much the content of his posts.

I honestly don't understand this whole newbie protection thing some of you guys have here. These are men and don't need to be cuddled. This isn't a life and death situation here. Guys can try out the game advice and it either works for them or it doesn't. They won't explode spontaneously so no need to be so dramatic. You're acting like there is only one right answer to these types of situations. Nah, life doesn't work like that.

The forum protects most members here from the bullshit marketers. That is all the protections most need here.

Post: #40

I love how this "call out" consists of men asking questions firmly but respectfully of one another.

Post: #41

I am sure it is easy to have an abundance mentality when you are in the Eastern Europe or some pussy paradise where it rains 8s and 9s. But if you are stuck in a place crawling with 3s and 4s it is hard to cultivate.

Post: #42

@Pride Male: That's the whole point of an abundance mentality. It's not about what's easy, it's about finding a way to thrive in adversity.

If your location sucks, you have three options. 1. Move to a better place. 2. Find a way to get the most out of your environment. 3. Curl up into the fetal position and quit.

For me, #3 isn't an option.

If you're an abundant man you can be dropped butt-naked into the middle of Toronto and come out of that situation with 100+ notches and a million dollars.

At least that's what I think your mindset should be.

Post: #43

(01-12-2016 01:45 PM)Pride male Wrote:  I am sure it is easy to have an abundance mentality when you are in the Eastern Europe or some pussy paradise where it rains 8s and 9s. But if you are stuck in a place crawling with 3s and 4s it is hard to cultivate.

There are a lot of flavors between 3's, 4's and 8's, 9's. I don't think I have ever been to a place that were mainly 3's and 4's.

When you're in a place in EE, you tend to get used to the surroundings. Honestly, when living roughly a year and a half in a EE country, I noticed the women weren't any prettier than the women from home. There was just more skinnier women which makes them look better. Once you live there, you stop comparing them to women at home.

Post: #44

(01-12-2016 11:25 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  You guys are taking these reps way too seriously. I don't believe the mod you are referring too (Tuth) has met anyone. Yet he has some of the best threads on the forum before he became a mod. I wish he would be demoted so he would post more. haha Is Tuth not legit because he didn't meet anyone or is legit because you agree with his posts... or being a mod magically makes you a legit player?

No sir. Feel free to re-read my post. I meant reputation and credibility, not necessarily reps. Tuth has a history with the forum and has a reputation built especially vouched for by Roosh. I'm perfectly fine with the level of Tuth's credibility and what he has done. On top of this, his advice has been used by other players that people have met and have been successful. I'm cool with that.

(01-12-2016 11:25 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  There has been guys who met others and then were banned.

Of course there are, and likely rightfully so. I agree.

(01-12-2016 11:25 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  I have seen one guy get 20+ rep points for posting celeb naked pictures.

Again, feel free to re-read my posts. I never implied that the number of rep points matter. I also went on to say that it's amateurish to think so.

(01-12-2016 11:25 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  Cobra, it's fine if you don't agree with someone. You seem to be trying to down play others by meetups and other requirements.

Of course it is fine; just like it's fine to disagree with me. I'm not downplaying others and setting requirements because I'm not a mod and not an authority here. I'm rather offering an alternate view so men here can decide for themselves who has more credibility. If they choose not to see it that way, it's okay. It's not my decision. I already said this before.

(01-12-2016 11:25 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  Hank may be regurgitating old stuff because the old stuff works. You seem to have a problem with Hank and not so much the content of his posts.

I mentioned many times I'm not hating on Hank and also that it's unfortunate that he ended up being a guinea pig in this discussion. I don't mind his posts. I'm just suggesting that there are enough gaps in his credibility that one should challenge them especially given the alternate points of view presented. That sounds harsh but to me it makes common sense.

(01-12-2016 11:25 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  I honestly don't understand this whole newbie protection thing some of you guys have here. These are men and don't need to be cuddled. This isn't a life and death situation here. Guys can try out the game advice and it either works for them or it doesn't. They won't explode spontaneously so no need to be so dramatic. You're acting like there is only one right answer to these types of situations. Nah, life doesn't work like that.

There is no newbie protection. Neither I nor other members are protectors of newbies as men but I think we should be protectors of the credibility of the forum and its principles themselves. I just think that this credibility increases when top members have vouched other members. No life/death situations here and yes, I don't expect to have anyone explode. Also, I agree that guys can try out any advice they see. All I'm saying is that they should feel free to rely more on advice from people that have been vouched and have been seen in action because it's more credible. I never said there was one right answer; all I said was that I believe in mine. That doesn't mean I'm better than anyone. As a matter of fact, I think every man here is better than me in some way. It's just that I believe in my own thought process regarding this subject. I think everyone should feel this way about things they feel strongly about.

(01-12-2016 11:25 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  The forum protects most members here from the bullshit marketers. That is all the protections most need here.

Yes, and that happens through threads like this where we challenge what's posted. So you're right.



At this point guys, I'm going to refrain from commenting on this because I made my point clear. I don't want to devolve the thread further away from the topic given the original paramount topic at hand.

Post: #45

Cobra, I won't quote your post in order to keep it easier to read.

You have a problem with Hank being thought of as an expert when you think he is not. Instead of attacking his post and what you think he posted was wrong, you are trying to attack his credibility.

You are trying to use the in-person vouching as a way to do it. It's a way to shut someone up. It really is none of your business who he has met.

You are hating on Hank. Not because he is posting stuff that you find wrong, but because people are congratulating him on his posts by giving him likes and rep points.

BTW, I did the same thing Hank did in his frame story with the same results. It doesn't mean there isn't other ways to handle it nor does it mean handling it the same way will have the same results with every girl you date.

Post: #46

(01-12-2016 04:25 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  You are trying to use the in-person vouching as a way to do it. It's a way to shut someone up. It really is none of your business who he has met.

If we're going to get into the weeds of why someone makes a comment, we might as well say it's none of your business that he thinks it's important, or that it's none of my business to get embroiled in your dispute.

Our business is what we make it.

I think it's totally fair game to question a man's position which Cobra did, and Hank defended it pretty well to my mind. Why you mad, bro?

Post: #47

(01-12-2016 04:33 PM)h3ltrsk3ltr Wrote:  

(01-12-2016 04:25 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  You are trying to use the in-person vouching as a way to do it. It's a way to shut someone up. It really is none of your business who he has met.

If we're going to get into the weeds of why someone makes a comment, we might as well say it's none of your business that he thinks it's important, or that it's none of my business to get embroiled in your dispute.

Our business is what we make it.

I think it's totally fair game to question a man's position which Cobra did, and Hank defended it pretty well to my mind. Why you mad, bro?

Ah, so this is where you try and paint my post as an emotional response? Nah, bruh, no bad feels today.

I do find it funny how serious you guys get. Like the reps and vouching instead of just accepting a post as a post.

It either makes sense with your experience or it doesn't.

Worried about the integrity of the forum because a guy gets some congrats, reps and some likes? He isn't even selling anything. Cross examining people when they make a post will hurt the forum far more than some guy getting a few rep points and "atta boys."

Post: #48

(01-12-2016 04:33 PM)h3ltrsk3ltr Wrote:  

(01-12-2016 04:25 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  You are trying to use the in-person vouching as a way to do it. It's a way to shut someone up. It really is none of your business who he has met.

If we're going to get into the weeds of why someone makes a comment, we might as well say it's none of your business that he thinks it's important, or that it's none of my business to get embroiled in your dispute.

Our business is what we make it.

I think it's totally fair game to question a man's position which Cobra did, and Hank defended it pretty well to my mind. Why you mad, bro?

^^^ I do agree that Hank defended the comment pretty well. And, I respect that he's sticking to his guns as well. I really do.

Thought I would say that because that's what the forum is about. I would even go so far as to say that I may have been a bit overly aggressive in bringing the point out but I admit that. Yet, by the same token, I am no less stern in my position.

No hating here worldwidetraveler. Come on "bruh"!

I won't be commenting specifically on your posts like I said before.

Post: #49

I'm not trying to paint your comments a certain way. No one's getting emotional.

What's wrong with questioning a guy's motives or taking the forum seriously?

Post: #50

There is a tremendous amount of bullshit written in the manosphere and that should be enough to give all forum members the benefit of the doubt in regards to respectfully being skeptical of another forum member’s writing. The ability of forum members to voice their skepticisms is what sets this community apart from the rest of the manosphere.

I’ve stopped reading several mansophere blogs due to credibility issues with the authors. I was hesitant to join this forum last year because I was skeptical about the credibility of some forum members especially after seeing what happened with a few former members who left the forum for various reasons. However, this forum seemed to be the most credible place in the manosphere so I joined and I’m glad I did.

(01-10-2016 04:46 PM)Cobra Wrote:  Let me reiterate: Real world information vs.. Great writing that is persuasive enough to look real.

This is a huge problem in the manosphere. I will give one example from outside of the manosphere so we can keep the conversation focused on credibility and not turn it into me versus a manosphere blogger.

The example is the Mark Rippetoe disciples….not Rippetoe himself but the Rippetoe disciples. Rippetoe has a lot of experience so he is clearly entitled to his opinions but there are many powerlifters and especially Olympic lifters who are critical of his methods therefore it is reasonable to assume that Rippetoe's writing isn't the gospel. However, if you question Rippetoe in certain places on the Internet, one of the Rippetoe disciples will probably show up with comments like “shut the fuck up, you’re a pussy, the only reason you’re at 30% body fat is because you do barbell rows instead of power cleans, starting strength isn’t a bodybuilding program so stop obsessing over 6 pack abs.”

This is an extreme example but similar things happen frequently in the manosphere with guys who are excellent writers like Rippetoe. They develop a group of followers that put them on a pedestal and a lot of incorrect information gets spread around even if the original writer had good intentions. Sometimes writers overestimate their expertise, sometimes they discuss topics that they aren’t experts in because they need to post more content, and sometimes their writing gets misinterpreted by an overzealous reader. There are many reasons why incorrect information is repeated a lot on the Internet so we should all maintain a reasonable level of skepticism with everything we read. That is the essence of the "red pill”. It is about understanding the truth and we should all be skeptical because we know the current world is full of a lot more bullshit than truth.

I’ve read all of Cobra’s posts in this thread twice each and what he is saying is that credibility is the issue. Nobody is trying to hate on Hank and the scope of this discussion is much broader than rep points. I agree that unfortunately Hank is being used as a guinea pig but the real issue is credibility. This forum maintains a high level of credibility and a lot of guys want to keep it that way.