Post: #126

(01-04-2016 06:19 PM)Hades Wrote:  I was mulling this over a few beers. As far as I'm concerned, this is clear evidence of a grand conspiracy. Let me explain.

The people in question here who are being pushed around tend to be ranchers. The bureau of land management and the fish and wildlife agency are always reducing the number of grazing leases, buying up land that they made no longer profitable through huge fees and fines, and charging grassland-burners with arson and terrorism charges even though that is standard operating procedure.

What this does, in effect, is reduce the amount of beef available to people in Oregon, and raise the price enough so that hippie/vegan/granola alternatives might actually be cost-effective.

Clearly, they are working on behalf of ex-Californian tech millionaires who are gentrifying the shit out of Oregon by reducing the amount of testosterone-affirming beef available to the local populace. Without beef, native Oregonians will never be able to get swole enough to overthrow their Silicon Valley overlords. Since the majority of them are hipsters anyway, this was not likely to happen from the get-go, but those Silicon Valley nerds figured they'd better cover all their bases just in case. It's a swole-spiracy. A bunch of skinny-fat PBR-swilling vegan hipsters with ED and patchy neckbeards are not as likely to start up a civilian uprising.

Thoughts, RVF?

Are you sure it was only a few beers?

Post: #127

Looks like the Hammonds just turned themselves in... wonder if Bundy and the gang are gonna keep the building ?

Post: #128

(01-04-2016 06:19 PM)Hades Wrote:  I was mulling this over a few beers. As far as I'm concerned, this is clear evidence of a grand conspiracy. Let me explain.

The people in question here who are being pushed around tend to be ranchers. The bureau of land management and the fish and wildlife agency are always reducing the number of grazing leases, buying up land that they made no longer profitable through huge fees and fines, and charging grassland-burners with arson and terrorism charges even though that is standard operating procedure.

What this does, in effect, is reduce the amount of beef available to people in Oregon, and raise the price enough so that hippie/vegan/granola alternatives might actually be cost-effective.

Clearly, they are working on behalf of ex-Californian tech millionaires who are gentrifying the shit out of Oregon by reducing the amount of testosterone-affirming beef available to the local populace. Without beef, native Oregonians will never be able to get swole enough to overthrow their Silicon Valley overlords. Since the majority of them are hipsters anyway, this was not likely to happen from the get-go, but those Silicon Valley nerds figured they'd better cover all their bases just in case. It's a swole-spiracy. A bunch of skinny-fat PBR-swilling vegan hipsters with ED and patchy neckbeards are not as likely to start up a civilian uprising.

Thoughts, RVF?

Nope. Its an extension of pandering. The land managers at the BLM think that they know how to manage it better than the ranchers and also think that the only way to manage an ecosystem perfectly is to exclude humans.

If you take the nihlistic solution to climate change (kill most of the humans) the same applies to wildlife centered land management...removing humans from the wilderness is the only way to preserve the ecosystem. It is a switch from what the notion of land management was up through the 1970s (pre environmentalism) the notion then was to CONSERVE aka wisely use natural resources so that they wouldn't be permanently depleted. Now the idea is that natural lands need to be more like museums, to be set aside and observed rather than used for human benefit.

In the 'conspiracy theory' scheme of things, this action falls in line with all other government overreach that "big brother knows best" and the government can manage your children, your safety, your money and your property better than you can.

Post: #129

(01-04-2016 06:30 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 06:20 PM)kaotic Wrote:  Strong, that was more of a question than a statement, that's what some have claimed, I'm sure it's more than just that.

Last I checked I think they already served their time but are now getting shafted by federal trumped up charges now.

They were convicted under an ANTI-TERRORIST statute.
The district court judge gave them their sentences, that really was in line with the crime. (no one says they didn't break the laws on the books, whether those laws are legitimate are something else)

The higher court said to the lower court, "Hey, you didn't follow the law here. Calls for a higher penalty, since that's how the US Attorney set it up"

The Fed had to appeal as the appellate court rarely does that sort of thing on their own.

So the district court gave them the time they were supposed to get according to the Federal Law, (Written and passed by a bunch of rich white Christians at the behest of born again Christian George W. Bush who meant it to only apply to Muslims)

The sort of thing is not unheard of, but it's really fucked up.

Back before Alex Jones was a major force, he was on cable access in Austin. This was in the run up to Y2K. He'd have meetings and rallies that were multi-cultural and diverse. Country boys was getting investigated by the feds for growing a little wacky tobaccy, and boys in the city were getting from county and city cops for selling it (and for any other reason).

For a hot second you could see the enemy and see your allies...but that's not how it ever plays out. These same folks don't see the jack boot of the state on the necks of anyone else.

WIA

The thing is, when Blacks were complaining about police abuses they did so over bullshit cases after the media whipped them into a frenzy.

Trayvon Martin, Freddie Grey, etc, all were portrayed as innocent Blacks even though evidence revealed they were all criminals who were threatening officers or others and happened to get killed in the process.

You think Whites are going to sympathize with that? Blacks needed to rally around real cases of abuse, not this bullshit. When you combine the fact that most Blacks are killed not by cops, but by other Blacks in gang-warfare, than for Blacks to make up a huge fuss over false allegations makes them look like hypocrites.

What needs to be done to rectify the situation is for new Black leadership to emerge and separate the majority of sensible Blacks into a new coalition that isn't a bunch of whack jobs like the Black Lives Matter movement. You need a Black leader respected by both Blacks and Whites. Someone like this Sheriff:





A straight shootin no bullshit guy, basically a Black Trump.

Post: #130

In any case, giving an 70 year old man 5 years in prison for a victimless crime is inhumane and 'cruel and unsual'. The word they use for his crime: Arson, makes people think of murder fires or burning down a school. In reality they burned some grass, bushes and weeds. How can someone read of this 'crime' and honestly think breaking up a family to send both fathers to jail for 5 years is in any way justicve?

I generally think it is favorable that the US punishes violent crimes harshly, but the non violent crimes: smoking weed, doing a line of cocaine etc, are absurdly high and in combination with hyper-violent prisons creates a society were a lot of people figure that going out guns blazing is better than going to jail.

Post: #131

I guess my sort of trollish post was taken seriously.

Takeaway here is that I like having domestic grassfed beef, and these enviro-Nazis are restricting the supply.

Post: #132

(01-04-2016 07:24 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 06:30 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 06:20 PM)kaotic Wrote:  Strong, that was more of a question than a statement, that's what some have claimed, I'm sure it's more than just that.

Last I checked I think they already served their time but are now getting shafted by federal trumped up charges now.

They were convicted under an ANTI-TERRORIST statute.
The district court judge gave them their sentences, that really was in line with the crime. (no one says they didn't break the laws on the books, whether those laws are legitimate are something else)

The higher court said to the lower court, "Hey, you didn't follow the law here. Calls for a higher penalty, since that's how the US Attorney set it up"

The Fed had to appeal as the appellate court rarely does that sort of thing on their own.

So the district court gave them the time they were supposed to get according to the Federal Law, (Written and passed by a bunch of rich white Christians at the behest of born again Christian George W. Bush who meant it to only apply to Muslims)

The sort of thing is not unheard of, but it's really fucked up.

Back before Alex Jones was a major force, he was on cable access in Austin. This was in the run up to Y2K. He'd have meetings and rallies that were multi-cultural and diverse. Country boys was getting investigated by the feds for growing a little wacky tobaccy, and boys in the city were getting from county and city cops for selling it (and for any other reason).

For a hot second you could see the enemy and see your allies...but that's not how it ever plays out. These same folks don't see the jack boot of the state on the necks of anyone else.

WIA

The thing is, when Blacks were complaining about police abuses they did so over bullshit cases after the media whipped them into a frenzy.

Trayvon Martin, Freddie Grey, etc, all were portrayed as innocent Blacks even though evidence revealed they were all criminals who were threatening officers or others and happened to get killed in the process.

You think Whites are going to sympathize with that? Blacks needed to rally around real cases of abuse, not this bullshit. When you combine the fact that most Blacks are killed not by cops, but by other Blacks in gang-warfare, than for Blacks to make up a huge fuss over false allegations makes them look like hypocrites.

What needs to be done to rectify the situation is for new Black leadership to emerge and separate the majority of sensible Blacks into a new coalition that isn't a bunch of whack jobs like the Black Lives Matter movement. You need a Black leader respected by both Blacks and Whites. Someone like this Sheriff:





A straight shootin no bullshit guy, basically a Black Trump.

Post: #133

(01-04-2016 07:24 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 06:30 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 06:20 PM)kaotic Wrote:  Strong, that was more of a question than a statement, that's what some have claimed, I'm sure it's more than just that.

Last I checked I think they already served their time but are now getting shafted by federal trumped up charges now.

They were convicted under an ANTI-TERRORIST statute.
The district court judge gave them their sentences, that really was in line with the crime. (no one says they didn't break the laws on the books, whether those laws are legitimate are something else)

The higher court said to the lower court, "Hey, you didn't follow the law here. Calls for a higher penalty, since that's how the US Attorney set it up"

The Fed had to appeal as the appellate court rarely does that sort of thing on their own.

So the district court gave them the time they were supposed to get according to the Federal Law, (Written and passed by a bunch of rich white Christians at the behest of born again Christian George W. Bush who meant it to only apply to Muslims)

The sort of thing is not unheard of, but it's really fucked up.

Back before Alex Jones was a major force, he was on cable access in Austin. This was in the run up to Y2K. He'd have meetings and rallies that were multi-cultural and diverse. Country boys was getting investigated by the feds for growing a little wacky tobaccy, and boys in the city were getting from county and city cops for selling it (and for any other reason).

For a hot second you could see the enemy and see your allies...but that's not how it ever plays out. These same folks don't see the jack boot of the state on the necks of anyone else.

WIA

The thing is, when Blacks were complaining about police abuses they did so over bullshit cases after the media whipped them into a frenzy.

Trayvon Martin, Freddie Grey, etc, all were portrayed as innocent Blacks even though evidence revealed they were all criminals who were threatening officers or others and happened to get killed in the process.

You think Whites are going to sympathize with that? Blacks needed to rally around real cases of abuse, not this bullshit. When you combine the fact that most Blacks are killed not by cops, but by other Blacks in gang-warfare, than for Blacks to make up a huge fuss over false allegations makes them look like hypocrites.

What needs to be done to rectify the situation is for new Black leadership to emerge and separate the majority of sensible Blacks into a new coalition that isn't a bunch of whack jobs like the Black Lives Matter movement. You need a Black leader respected by both Blacks and Whites. Someone like this Sheriff:





A straight shootin no bullshit guy, basically a Black Trump.

Post: #134

Ok, we're about 48 hours into this "crisis" and I'm calling bullshit that this is good P.R. for Obama and the gun control agenda in general.

If this was good P.R. the media could have easily blown this thing wide open.



The fact that they didn't, yet, demonstrates they do not have control over the protestors and that they are not sure it would be a media victory even.


That is HUGE for patriots in America. This demonstrates that even an offensive land grab of a government building wouldn't be seen as negative in the minds of the people.



I gotta say I respect the hell out of Ammon Bundy.

The posters who said this is going to be horrible for gun rights need to come out and admit they were wrong.

Obviously, Obama can't just drone these guys to death and get cheered for it except for the most die hard blue haired freaks, and they might even think there would be an actual mutiny in the armed forces.

The armed forces are still pretty traditional Americana even after 7 years of Obama.

The problem with the liberals is no one in their voting block usually serves in the military except blacks, and black liberalism is more ethnic ritual than actual belief in the whole gay rights depopulation hippie bullshit.


I'm proclaiming, with knowledge that this could turn out very badly, a victory so far.

We'll have to see how it plays out though.

Post: #135

If this goes wrong, will these men be able to claim asylum in sweden?

Post: #136

(01-05-2016 12:12 AM)KorbenDallas Wrote:  The posters who said this is going to be horrible for gun rights need to come out and admit they were wrong.

I'm proclaiming, with knowledge that this could turn out very badly, a victory so far.

We'll have to see how it plays out though.

Yes, why don't we see how this ends before anyone is determined as being right or wrong in the matter?

It'll probably end quietly, but you never know until it happens.

Post: #137

I'm cautiously optimistic, but I shouldn't have said that. It is early.

Post: #138

Also, Alex Jones is a fucking pussy.

He's been preaching the governments illegitimate and here someone takes that to its logical conclusion and his coverage has been to throw Ammon Bundy under the bus, while, saying, the libruls will use this to take our guns!

No, the fact is that Alex Jone's reporter was at the Cliven Bundy stand off and Alex hasn't had the balls to leave his mansion for a long time.

Joe Biggs and his reporters do everything that is legitimately dangerous while Jone's sells his cleanses.

I'm not saying Jone's is a traitor, I'm just saying he seems a little all talk and no action.

Donald Trump gets up there and meets people everyday. He gets out into the world fearlessly. I haven't seen Jones do much lately..just saying.

Post: #139

These guys are fraudulent clowns, no wonder MSM hasn't been paying them much attention. They talk about the tyranny of government interference when most of their ranching business is funded by welfare programs and their livestock is protected with government assistance. http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arch...dy/306414/

Big talk about how they're going to be there indefinitely yet didn't plan to bring enough food to last more than a few days? They're asking for snacks and other donations on social media.

Post: #140

^^

The MSM hasn't been paying much attention because...

No More Free Wacos

Post: #141

A good video from Stefan Molyneux on the situation.

Post: #142

(01-05-2016 02:55 AM)Arkady Rossovich Wrote:  These guys are fraudulent clowns, no wonder MSM hasn't been paying them much attention. They talk about the tyranny of government interference when most of their ranching business is funded by welfare programs and their livestock is protected with government assistance. http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arch...dy/306414/

Big talk about how they're going to be there indefinitely yet didn't plan to bring enough food to last more than a few days? They're asking for snacks and other donations on social media.

You don't think it is tyrannical to convict two ranchers of arson under an anti-terrorism statute for doing a standard land burn?

Just because they pay federal grazing fees doesn't give the government the right to violate their constitutional rights.

Post: #143

(01-05-2016 03:12 AM)Steve_Jay Wrote:  

(01-05-2016 02:55 AM)Arkady Rossovich Wrote:  These guys are fraudulent clowns, no wonder MSM hasn't been paying them much attention. They talk about the tyranny of government interference when most of their ranching business is funded by welfare programs and their livestock is protected with government assistance. http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arch...dy/306414/

Big talk about how they're going to be there indefinitely yet didn't plan to bring enough food to last more than a few days? They're asking for snacks and other donations on social media.

You don't think it is tyrannical to convict two ranchers of arson under an anti-terrorism statute for doing a standard land burn?

Just because they pay federal grazing fees doesn't give the government the right to violate their constitutional rights.

Nope. They did the crime, they need to do the time.

Post: #144

(01-05-2016 03:42 AM)Arkady Rossovich Wrote:  

(01-05-2016 03:12 AM)Steve_Jay Wrote:  

(01-05-2016 02:55 AM)Arkady Rossovich Wrote:  These guys are fraudulent clowns, no wonder MSM hasn't been paying them much attention. They talk about the tyranny of government interference when most of their ranching business is funded by welfare programs and their livestock is protected with government assistance. http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arch...dy/306414/

Big talk about how they're going to be there indefinitely yet didn't plan to bring enough food to last more than a few days? They're asking for snacks and other donations on social media.

You don't think it is tyrannical to convict two ranchers of arson under an anti-terrorism statute for doing a standard land burn?

Just because they pay federal grazing fees doesn't give the government the right to violate their constitutional rights.

Nope. They did the crime, they need to do the time.

What part of Anti-Terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act did they break specifically. Can you explain it?

Post: #145

(01-05-2016 03:42 AM)Arkady Rossovich Wrote:  

(01-05-2016 03:12 AM)Steve_Jay Wrote:  

(01-05-2016 02:55 AM)Arkady Rossovich Wrote:  These guys are fraudulent clowns, no wonder MSM hasn't been paying them much attention. They talk about the tyranny of government interference when most of their ranching business is funded by welfare programs and their livestock is protected with government assistance. http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arch...dy/306414/

Big talk about how they're going to be there indefinitely yet didn't plan to bring enough food to last more than a few days? They're asking for snacks and other donations on social media.

You don't think it is tyrannical to convict two ranchers of arson under an anti-terrorism statute for doing a standard land burn?

Just because they pay federal grazing fees doesn't give the government the right to violate their constitutional rights.

Nope. They did the crime, they need to do the time.

You act like there are no illegal/stupid laws or selective enforcement. Might want to rethink your logic instead of just throwing out platitudes.

Post: #146

(01-04-2016 07:24 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Post: #147

(01-05-2016 03:42 AM)Arkady Rossovich Wrote:  

(01-05-2016 03:12 AM)Steve_Jay Wrote:  

(01-05-2016 02:55 AM)Arkady Rossovich Wrote:  These guys are fraudulent clowns, no wonder MSM hasn't been paying them much attention. They talk about the tyranny of government interference when most of their ranching business is funded by welfare programs and their livestock is protected with government assistance. http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arch...dy/306414/

Big talk about how they're going to be there indefinitely yet didn't plan to bring enough food to last more than a few days? They're asking for snacks and other donations on social media.

You don't think it is tyrannical to convict two ranchers of arson under an anti-terrorism statute for doing a standard land burn?

Just because they pay federal grazing fees doesn't give the government the right to violate their constitutional rights.

Nope. They did the crime, they need to do the time.

They already did their time. I think you either A) didn't read the thread or B) need to sit in on a third grade reading comprehension session.

Post: #148

If this is the so called "revolution" leader, whom can hardly speak and makes no points then good luck. I think it's easy to sympathize with anti-government ideas but this Bundy character offers nothing. He isn't intelligent enough to even answer a couple questions that are so simple it's almost confusing that he can't answer them.

this is a link to a Fox news interview where he speaks like a developmentally challenged child

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/megyn-kelly-d...icy-stare/

Post: #149

(01-05-2016 03:07 AM)Steve_Jay Wrote:  A good video from Stefan Molyneux on the situation.

I'm just catching up on the situation but if this is accurate, this is absolutely insane. The whole Hammond's case is pretty much the definition of malicious prosecution and gross abuse of governmental legal power. I don't want to hear any of this technical/letter of the law crap.

From what I can gather, it looks like the BLM in collusion with the local US attorney were working to together to force the Hammond's out and get entire ownership of their land via unpaid bills. What better way to do that than take out the two primary male earners in the family. No male earners? No money. No money? BLM gets the land via default on bills. This is some really corrupt shit.

Despite bullshit charges that completely abused the spirit and intent of a law on the books, the Hammond's took a plea deal just to get the non-sense settled and to be able to move on with their lives.

Anyone here who has been involved in a criminal case knows damn well the intense desire to just put the shit behind you ASAP even if you know you are innocent; knowing that dragging it out will cost more money and the system is so corrupt you could do significant time if you let things play out all the way to the end. The Hammond's lost their freedom for absolute bullshit but decided to suck it up and do some time to get on with their lives.

THEN the fuckin goddamn government AFTER the Hammond's do their time VOIDS the plea deal by claiming it doesn't exist and they must go back to prison and do 5 years for burning fires (as is par for the course in those parts when needed) in the middle of goddamn nowhere with no real damage to anyone or anything? Unless I am missing something here...

The entire fuckin US criminal legal system needs to be burned down. Right down to the fuckin foundation.

This sort of abuse/negligence/vindictiveness/idiocy when it comes to peoples fuckin freedom is NOT acceptable. Between the false rape/DV/sexual harassment charges that affects tons of men every year, bullshit drug charges with harsh sentences, a plethora of random other shit I'm sure I'm forgetting, and now this (the voiding of a plea deal resulting in having to go back to prison AFTER time served stemming originally from a bullshit case?!)

Shit is gonna get real in the near future if this keeps going on for much longer. Damn do I hope Trump gets elected soon and turns this ship around.

Post: #150

(01-05-2016 10:50 AM)The Black Knight Wrote:  

(01-05-2016 03:07 AM)Steve_Jay Wrote:  A good video from Stefan Molyneux on the situation.

I'm just catching up on the situation but if this is accurate, this is absolutely insane. The whole Hammond's case is pretty much the definition of malicious prosecution and gross abuse of governmental legal power. I don't want to hear any of this technical/letter of the law crap.

From what I can gather, it looks like the BLM in collusion with the local US attorney were working to together to force the Hammond's out and get entire ownership of their land via unpaid bills. What better way to do that than take out the two primary male earners in the family. No male earners? No money. No money? BLM gets the land via default on bills. This is some really corrupt shit.

Despite bullshit charges that completely abused the spirit and intent of a law on the books, the Hammond's took a plea deal just to get the non-sense settled and to be able to move on with their lives.

Anyone here who has been involved in a criminal case knows damn well the intense desire to just put the shit behind you ASAP even if you know you are innocent; knowing that dragging it out will cost more money and the system is so corrupt you could do significant time if you let things play out all the way to the end. The Hammond's lost their freedom for absolute bullshit but decided to suck it up and do some time to get on with their lives.

THEN the fuckin goddamn government AFTER the Hammond's do their time VOIDS the plea deal by claiming it doesn't exist and they must go back to prison and do 5 years for burning fires (as is par for the course in those parts when needed) in the middle of goddamn nowhere with no real damage to anyone or anything? Unless I am missing something here...

The entire fuckin US criminal legal system needs to be burned down. Right down to the fuckin foundation.

This sort of abuse/negligence/vindictiveness/idiocy when it comes to peoples fuckin freedom is NOT acceptable. Between the false rape/DV/sexual harassment charges that affects tons of men every year, bullshit drug charges with harsh sentences, a plethora of random other shit I'm sure I'm forgetting, and now this (the voiding of a plea deal resulting in having to go back to prison AFTER time served stemming originally from a bullshit case?!)

Shit is gonna get real in the near future if this keeps going on for much longer. Damn do I hope Trump gets elected soon and turns this ship around.

Yea, saw that last night, Stephan always struck me as a straight shooter. no pun. Really brings things into perspective doesn't it? He's basically outlined everything I've come across researching this plus other things I wasn't aware of. All the lefties need to see this vid.