Post: #1

One of the unpleasant things that's happened to me as I've started getting back into night game is dealing with randomly hostile men. It's one of those things that makes me wonder if the bar scene is even worth it for game purposes anymore - when dudes try to start shit with me for no particular reasons it usually puts me in a sour mood for the rest of the night and makes approaching that much harder.

Had this interaction at a trendy dive bar the other night...the bar was crowded and there were few stools available. Guys had been buying chicks drinks left and right and the bar was covered in half full bottles and glasses and it was hard to tell who was sitting where. I grabbed a stool by the end of the bar that appeared to be empty.

Guy sitting next to me looks up from text messaging with a frown on his face:

"You'd better move, dude."

Me: "I'm sorry?"

Guy: "My GIRLFRIEND is sitting there."

Me: "Oh! I didn't realize. Well I'll just let them bring me my beer and I'll be out of your way."

Guy: "Yeah, you fuckin' better."

(do you really want to go down this road?)

Me: "Hmmm."

Guy: "Because you're a lot uglier than she is."

Me: (with a smile) "That's really interesting. Have a good night!"

So what's your way of dealing with such stressing?

Edit: one thing I do is always tip the bouncers/security at places I like. Even $5 here and there seems to go a long way - I mentioned it to one of the guys working that night and he said that if the guy gave me any more grief they'd have him removed.

Post: #2

Post: #3

Does this happen to you often?

I like the way you handled it. "Tough guys" don't have any power with a guy they can't rattle or provoke.

I don't even get buzzed when I'm out by myself just for this reason.

Post: #4

Just keep douchebags like that out of your frame.It sounds like your handling it well. However I use the less is more philosophy. When dudes try to start shit at night if I'm on the hunt for poon I just neutralize the confrontation quickly.I would of ended the conversation you dialogued above with "okay". When you said " that's really interesting" that could have added more fuel to the fire and shit could have got physical quick. There's a lot of dudes in bars with nothing but a police record and a reputation to protect. So I would take it a little easier next time. At the same time, don't let it bother you and just find other parts of the bar to game.However if it continues to be a issue,avoid the bar all together.

Post: #5

(12-27-2015 09:56 PM)Phil Jackson Wrote:  There's a lot of dudes in bars with nothing but a police record and a reputation to protect. So I would take it a little easier next time. At the same time, don't let it bother you and just find other parts of the bar to game.However if it continues to be a issue,avoid the bar all together.

That is true. This place was a more hipster/trendy type of dive bar where professionals hang out than the type of place you describe, to the point that I actually feel a little out of place. The type of place where you can spend 14 bucks on a beer if that's your jam. When I'm outside people sometimes try to show me their IDs because they mistake _me_ for security. I didn't really feel threatened by this guy and was actually pretty surprised that he went down that road. I guess you never know.

There are definitely some places where I wouldn't even make a mild quip such as that, for sure. I try to avoid them. The women are usually ugly there anyway.

Post: #6

(12-27-2015 09:53 PM)h3ltrsk3ltr Wrote:  Does this happen to you often?

I like the way you handled it. "Tough guys" don't have any power with a guy they can't rattle or provoke.

I don't even get buzzed when I'm out by myself just for this reason.

Not that often, fortunately.

Post: #7

Where are you gaming? This NEVER happens to me. Of course if you're blatantly disrespectful it will happen once in a while. Though i'm talking regular big city bars and college bars in the US. You'd be more likely to see a B or C -list celeb (or football player) than a felon.

Maybe you put off that vibe that you can be pushed around? Or are you going to gangster/ghetto bars?

Maybe his girlfriend was sitting there, and the fact that he was drunk and yelled at you (Which he had a right to do, though it maybe should have been in a nicer way).

Either way unless this happens constantly I wouldn't worry too much about it. Although it would have been hilarious to pick up the stool and walk away.

In night game especially, he best offense is a good defense. If you act like a douche people won't fuck with you.

Post: #8

(12-27-2015 10:05 PM)jake1720 Wrote:  Where are you gaming? This NEVER happens to me. Of course if you're blatantly disrespectful it will happen once in a while. Though i'm talking regular big city bars and college bars in the US. You'd be more likely to see a B or C -list celeb (or football player) than a felon.

Maybe you put off that vibe that you can be pushed around? Or are you going to gangster/ghetto bars?

No, this area is gentrified as fuck. Unlikely to see any celebs at these places, but it's mainly students/artists/young professionals. Attractive women, good ratios, and guys with no game.

Quote:Either way unless this happens constantly I wouldn't worry too much about it. Although it would have been hilarious to pick up the stool and walk away.

In night game especially, he best offense is a good defense. If you act like a douche people won't fuck with you.

"Excuse me, I need to borrow your pedestal."

Post: #9

The guy is an asshole, the world is full of them and it was your turn to deal with one.

I think you handled it fine. I also think you would've liked to have gone Joe Pesci on him.

Post: #10

Also interested in the general vibe of the place, surprised it was a hipster bar. I go to regular bars and pubs with people mostly between 21-35.

This has rarely happened to me, I'm also told I'm an intimidating guy, but a few times I can remember.

One thing to keep in mind that will help you decipher whether it's just BS posturing on his part or the guy is serious is how the man is dressed, his vibe, and how he carries himself.

The last time this happened to me, I was with a friend and this guy in a collared shirt who clearly looked like he just got out of the office accosted us and said I was looking at him funny. I literally told him 'get the fuck out of here'.

I knew by the way he was dressed and that he seemed to be in a group with several girls (it looked like they were celebrating some chick's birthday) that he wasn't going to do shit. Why? He wasn't going to risk his obviously upper class job to fight. He kind of just stood there and then went back to the group.

After about 30 minutes he got drunker and decided to come up to us again. I said 'Bro you're drunk get the fuck out of my face before you embarrass yourself.' At the end of the night he came up and apologized. Turns out they were law students celebrating something. If it was a hipster I'd react in the same way. On the other hand if it was some guy with a ton of prison tats, I'd think twice.

But nowadays I wouldn't react like I used to, and would just diffuse the situation like you did.

"No problem, it's cool man."

I know talking about 'vibe' and how the guy 'carries himself' is a bit nebulous, but I grew up in a rough area and currently work in a white-collar profession so it's really just a matter of experience.

Post: #11

I had a guy pull something similar at my day job. I just do 15 hours a week at this school in order to maintain my visa and provide a more legit existence here in Beijing while I use the rest of my time to build my business.

I immediately reported the encounter to management (which involved the hung-over Australia loser physically shoving me with his chest and going all AMOG on my ass), but they failed to do anything about it.

Their loss. They've just sped up my departure by four months. I'll be putting in my one month notice on January 10th.

Meanwhile, I'm just being beta at work to avoid a future incident. I have a feeling that this guy has already had his ass kicked in the past and will definitely incite violence in the future if he keeps pulling this type of stuff.

I have too much to gain by simply staying out of trouble.

Post: #12

(12-27-2015 09:45 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  One of the unpleasant things that's happened to me as I've started getting back into night game is dealing with randomly hostile men. It's one of those things that makes me wonder if the bar scene is even worth it for game purposes anymore - when dudes try to start shit with me for no particular reasons it usually puts me in a sour mood for the rest of the night and makes approaching that much harder.

Had this interaction at a trendy dive bar the other night...the bar was crowded and there were few stools available. Guys had been buying chicks drinks left and right and the bar was covered in half full bottles and glasses and it was hard to tell who was sitting where. I grabbed a stool by the end of the bar that appeared to be empty.

Guy sitting next to me looks up from text messaging with a frown on his face:

"You'd better move, dude."

Me: "I'm sorry?"

Guy: "My GIRLFRIEND is sitting there."

Me: "Oh! I didn't realize. Well I'll just let them bring me my beer and I'll be out of your way."

Guy: "Yeah, you fuckin' better."

Yeah, I really do my best to be civil until I can't, but the bolded part above is about the point I get a no-nonsense, "play-time is over" look on my face, set down my beer, stand up, and say, "What did you just say to me?"

If you really don't give a shit, throw a "the fuck" in there for good measure.

I don't know if I can recommend my approach to just anyone - I've been in a ton of altercations in bars, and for whatever reason people like to try me. But I'd say the vast majority of the time guys backpedal and/or tone it down at this point. He knows he's being a dick and chances are he just expected you to take it.

Another (slightly) less confrontational move is the bold and assertive introduction.

Best example I can think of: I was working on this smoking hot bartender who worked at this biker bar and I went to see her on her shift one night. This guy comes in and I shit you not he's pro-basketball size redneck white boy (I've got big arms and am pretty strong, but I'm just under 6 foot). Don't know if he remembered me but I'd had a close encounter with him at a club in the past.

I was all dressed up as I tend to do back home and clearly a stand-out. So this redwood tree of a guy walks in and starts talking to three guys behind me and they're all chuckling and laughing, obviously know each other, and I catch him make a "who's this idiot" gesure at me and says purposefully loud enough for me to hear, "Who the fuck is this guy?"

I set down my beer and popped up on my feet and turned around. You could feel the tension in the room jump up a few notches. Doubt they'd seen this guy challenged often. And I walked directly up the guy as confidently as possible, looked him square in the eye and held out my hand. "I'm BB."

We sat there looking at each other for a sec all serious and then he chuckles nervously and says, "I'm just kidding, man." Shakes my hand. Conversation turns cordial and I held it long enough to be cool and then returned to my seat.

If you were to look at that guy and look at me, no way you'd put the money on me giving him a run for it, but because I was willing to grab the bull by the horns (outsized and outnumbered, no less), he folded his hand. Maybe not out of fear but probably enough uncertainty that he didn't want to be ridiculed in front of his boys if he did get put on his ass. Especially when he was in the wrong. And it's amazing how often that happens with even (or maybe especially) adult bullies.

A while later he bought me a drink, and I actually ended up being friends with that guy later on. At the end of the day, most people don't really want a fistfight. Not to mention that there's a natural human instinct when someone shows no fear like that for a guy to start running thoughts through his brain - "Who is this guy, is he connected, crazy, packing a gun, etc? I didn't expect this..."

I don't always do the handshake tension killer so John Wayne. But I've found it's quite effective to neturalize a guy who is being a dick by even calmly walking over to him and introducing yourself assertively or even buying them a courtesy drink (not as a move made of fear but a gentleman's gesture).

You don't have to say much because the move says enough on its own - Basically: "I don't want problems here and would rather be civilized, but I'm not afraid of you or going to cringe from your bullshit either." Although, I have been known to verbalize something very similar to that too.

My assertive approach may not be for you if you want to avoid a fight at all costs because sometimes it can go the other way too. So use at your own discretion and I'm not responsible if you get beat up. haha I mean, even guys who really are just looking for a fight often reconsider when they see that look of complete confidence in your eye, but not always...

I've had those moments when I've bought a guy a drink to neutralize him and still went on toss him on his head anyways because he couldn't get the point. I mean, at the end of the day, don't go to bars if you can't stomach the real potential for violence that resides there. We all know the chance for it in a drinking environment goes up exponentially.

One thing I love about Asia is I can go out and almost never get in these situations. Don't know about where you live in the states, but the small city I came from is full of that type of nonsense.

I don't know why that drama follows me there, but for whatever reason it's seems to be an American (and British, I've heard) thing. On my last trip home, I walked into a dive bar in Santa Rosa, California in the middle of the daytime and the guy on the stool next to me start fucking with me and announced he had a gun in his pants when I ignored him. And I'm stone cold sober with a cast on my hand and a smile on my face, so not sure what I did to invite it.

There are a lot of douchebags out there.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #13

You handled it well. These knuckleheads want you to square up to them like another stupid chimp would. If you show them it doesn't flap you at all then they'll hopefully realize they look a bit stupid. Girls see through that fake macho bullshit as well, so you'll be better off for it.

Post: #14

If you're physically big, or travel with a crew, that's when you start shit right back.

"Listen, I don't know how you talk to your girl, but let me be clear about something - I'm not your bitch. So unless you want his beer bottle shoved up your ass, you'd better move along. Otherwise we can discuss this outside."

It's funny when I start getting like that when I'm in a suit. I'm always willing to kick some sand in someone's face. I start shit right back all the time and it's never caused a problem for me. You'd also be surprised how quickly these dudes back down.

Post: #15

If you go to Clubs or some regular bar, you will see trash people in general. A lot of them are mad but they still came to party which is pretty non sense.

I recommend going to more upper class bars or hipster bars.

Good thing about hipster bar is that guys are not threatening. They will stare at you when you talk to one of their girls but they won't confront you like that. I don't remember watching people fighting even verbally at a hipster bar.
Of course, I go there for hipster girls with those bohemian looks and thin figure. Guy's trait there is just a plus.
You won't run into those club bitches who run their mouth off to guys either.

Post: #16

This is a huge problem night gaming in Australia.

There's loads of drunk, jacked up dudes, abusing steroids, hunting in packs whos idea of a good time is sucker punches or random beatings.

If you are dressed up, on your own, or with a hot chick, you'd best be looking out.

Post: #17

(12-28-2015 12:43 AM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  This is a huge problem night gaming in Australia.

There's loads of drunk, jacked up dudes, abusing steroids, hunting in packs whos idea of a good time is sucker punches or random beatings.

If you are dressed up, on your own, or with a hot chick, you'd best be looking out.

Never had those experiences here myself, and I go out dressed up AND alone all the time. Most guys I run into are friendly and out to have a good time, and some are even willing to adopt me into their group for a while. Maybe it's a big city thing if you're talking about Melbourne or Sydney. The bigger cities tend to attract the wankers, especially in Australia.

In saying that, the Arabs I've come across tend to be really hostile now that I think of it. They aggressively persue women in clubs and if you get in their way, you might have some trouble on your hands. Even worst, they often succeed through sheer caveman game. Women love that shit here, are to stupid to see through their douchebag behaviour.

Post: #18

^ Seriously? Women in Australia go for drunken Arab caveman game??

I have to be honest, that blows my mind a little.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #19

(12-28-2015 01:57 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  ^ Seriously? Women in Australia go for drunken Arab caveman game??

I have to be honest, that blows my mind a little.

Aussies are into "bad boys" more than your average woman. They are very masculine and loud themselves so are naturally attracted to confident men who can challenge and dominate them while young and experimenting (18-25). Then when they're washed up, they completely change their attitude and want a beta who will put up with their shit and be a yes man for the rest of their lives. By Arabs, I mean mainly Afghans, Iraqis and Egyptians and there are quite a few good looking ones who hit the gym hard here. I've seen caveman game work on several occasions because most of the girls are sluts and want to be fucked by someone who they believe will dominate them in the bedroom and seem they're not the brightest creatures on Earth, to them loud, cocky and violent = good in bed. Go figure. In high school, half the girls were fucking Arabs and it was something I couldn't get my head around at the time until I discovered game.

Post: #20

This kind of shit is a part of life in the UK. Not so much in nicer venues (although you do still get some idiots), but it's still pretty difficult to avoid entirely (you can get it waiting for a taxi, walking between venues, etc.). When I was younger I used to fly off the handle at the smallest disrespect, but had some experiences that taught me that it's just not worth prison or serious injury over some idiots. Being friendly and confident is the best approach, and let them find somebody else to fight with.

I do however feel kind of vulnerable in nightlife, as many are out in big groups, I'll usually have had a few drinks, and am always dressed in dress shoes (slippy), fitted jeans, and jackets with high arm holes which make it difficult to fight if need be. Also using glasses is pretty much par for the course here now. I know both CBW and I have been glassed (my own injuries not being too serious thankfully), and I can't remember the last time I saw a fight without glasses or bottles being used. A friend of mine also got hit in the side of the face with a glass recently thrown from the other side of the bar aimed at somebody else. Luckily it was one of the plastic ones made to look and feel like a glass so it didn't shatter, but the intention was still there and it could have sliced straight into his skull.

Post: #21

In night game. More often than not you'll be on your solo.

The roaming wolf packs, will be roided up, drunk, sexually frustrated & rolling 5+ deep.

Yeah, a rude dude might throw you off your game.
But what about a concussion & having your limp unconscious person, video'd & uploaded onto the web?

Club security is there to protect the girls & regulars.
They'll likely throw you out instead if shit pops off.
Kicking out an entire group of dudes who'd spend money vs 1 loner - it's an easy decision for em.

Post: #22

Tough issue. Rational thing is to say: it's never necessary. But backing down can leave you tearing yourself mentally up for days. I was boxing last week and some dude started up outside the ring, for a stupid reason (I live in a Turkish area). I was torn between acting and remaining passive. So I ended up responding in a beta mode. In future, the key is to respond actively, but calmly. As soon as you start reacting, you've lost. Avoid violence but remain dominant.