Post: #1

Hello everyone. I live in New York City and it's tough for me to game here. I've know the basics like opening, transitioning, etc. One thing that I noticed about my game is that I'm not able to make that solid connection and create comfort with girls. In the beginning, the girl seems interested. But midway, she loses interest in me.

Here's an example of a korean girl I saw walking downtown:
Me: Excuse me I noticed you got a great sense of fashion.
Her: Thank you.
Me: You look like you're from korea.
Her: Wow! How did you know that?
Me: I can tell from your facial expression. (I'd go into this in detail)
Her: Very interesting. Where are you from?
Me: I'm from NYC. But I visited korea last year and went to seoul. Something crazy happened to me there.
Her: Really? What happened?
Me: A guy there was forcing his girlfriend into his car. She didn't want to go so I stopped him by holding him until my friend called the cops on him.
Her: Wow! That was good move.
Me: So what do you do?
Her: I'm a model.
Me: Cool. Are you a hand model? (I attempt to take her hand to hold it but she retracts it back)
Cool. My sister was a model with a modeling agency.
Her: Oh cool. (she starts to leave saying shes got to go shopping)
Me: Are you going this way? I'm going this way to since the subway is there.. I can tell you're a a passionate girl but you're a bit insecure.
Her: I'm not insecure.

From there, I can feel I lost her. I just need some strong connection or emotional hook to keep her hooked and attracted. But I don't know what. This is basically what I use when gaming girls in the day.

When I come home I feel so depressed knowing that I lost many girls. I don't know what to do. Guys, I would greatly appreciate your feedback in this serious matter. This is making me VERY depressed. Thanks and i look forward to your replies!

Post: #2

Not going to micro-analyze this particular exchange (though maybe the hand-grabbing was premature or overthinking an opportunity for "kino")...

Assuming you are "normal enough" / not coming off weird:

a) Are you making deep "laser" eye contact during the interaction? Part "bedroom-eyes", part "I've been here before", part "I don't really care if this doesn't go anywhere"? Congruence and confidence are important, but are you projecting it with your eyes and body language?

b) Just keep doing it with no expectations. Make it second nature, be okay with cutting things short sometimes, don't let any positive hook from a girl get you in the "oh shit I have to close now!" territory. If you chat with lots of people casually, you'll develop a sense for when it's worthwhile to press on.

c) Don't worry too much about a "strong connection" or "emotional hook" as if they are Topics or Stories you have to bring up. You don't always need conversational / subject-matter rapport. Sometimes it's just the mutual look / vibe, if that makes sense. I've had very brief, substance-less (i.e. no stories) interactions that led to dates/relationships, so I know it's not all about making her think you have a fascinating life from the jump. It's more about the vibe in the moment, projecting that there's more to you without having to "sell" verbally.


Otherwise, take stock at what things you might improve. Is your vibe off? Anyone in your life who will give you a non-BS answer about how you come off?


It's hard to know without more details about who you are / what you look like / vibe like.

Post: #3

(12-23-2015 02:41 AM)nidall Wrote:  Me: Cool. Are you a hand model? (I attempt to take her hand to hold it but she retracts it back)
Cool. My sister was a model with a modeling agency.
Her: Oh cool. (she starts to leave saying shes got to go shopping)
Me: Are you going this way? I'm going this way to since the subway is there.. I can tell you're a a passionate girl but you're a bit insecure.
Her: I'm not insecure.

When I come home I feel so depressed knowing that I lost many girls. I don't know what to do. Guys, I would greatly appreciate your feedback in this serious matter. This is making me VERY depressed. Thanks and i look forward to your replies!

She was ejecting, that's fine.

I would've kept connecting with her on Korea, if she's visited, if she plans on it, give her tips, ask for places to visit, see if she's visited elsewhere.

Ramble, bullshit if you need to. Talking about Korea obviously jolted her intested in the convo.

You also need to know when to eject. It might help your bruised ego to eject before she does.

Not sure why you dropped a white knighting story in there, I would've talked about how Koreans passing out wasted in the financial district is hilarious, or how you checked out the DMZ, etc.

I don't know why you were negging her at the end, she was already leaving.

And stop it, this isn't the worst thing that could of happened to you.

You can't lose any girls you never had to begin with.

Sounds like you need to go back to square one and re evaluate how you approach girls and work on your ramble game.

456 is right, we do need more background info, but eye contact is an absolute necessity.

PS Seriously don't beat up yourself too much about some random chick, stop thinking like that, and readjust your approach method.

Post: #4

You talk too much.

Don't give away the farm. Ask open ended questions-- at the end of the conversation you should know a good deal about her and, due to her self absorbed nature, she will know very little about you; but should be intrigued.

Get the number and bounce. Tell her she can talk your ear off over drinks sometime.

Post: #5

   

Somewhere here, I would of cut out all the bullshit about modeling and say "Hey, listen, I think you're beautiful, and I would very much like to get coffee with you sometime."

Post: #6

1. You talk too much
2. You're trying too hard
3. Your fundamentals like posture, eye contact, smiling too much, playing with your hands, touching your face, and leaning into the conversation probably suck

Day game is a lot more about how you're saying it, rather than what you're actually saying. What you're saying matters very little, relatively speaking.

The important questions:

- Are you maintaining eye contact?
- Are you talking slowly?
- Are you not leaning into the conversation?
- Are you not smiling too much, though using an occasional jerkboy smirk?

If you're attractive, you can literally walk up to her and be like "So... purple monkey dishwasher" and she'll respond.

You're still in that mindset that game is about convincing women through spoken dialogue that you're suitable. It's more about actually being suitable, and knowing you're suitable.

Post: #7

(12-23-2015 11:37 AM)456 Wrote:  a) Are you making deep "laser" eye contact during the interaction? Part "bedroom-eyes", part "I've been here before", part "I don't really care if this doesn't go anywhere"? Congruence and confidence are important, but are you projecting it with your eyes and body language?

Yes I’m making very strong eye contact. But I do admit I should have a bit more, “I don’t care what happens” and ”bedroom” eyes.

Quote:b) Just keep doing it with no expectations. Make it second nature, be okay with cutting things short sometimes, don't let any positive hook from a girl get you in the "oh shit I have to close now!" territory. If you chat with lots of people casually, you'll develop a sense for when it's worthwhile to press on.

I will continue to keep this advice in mind even though I’ve been gaming lots of girls

Quote:c) Don't worry too much about a "strong connection" or "emotional hook" as if they are Topics or Stories you have to bring up. You don't always need conversational / subject-matter rapport. Sometimes it's just the mutual look / vibe, if that makes sense. It's more about the vibe in the moment, projecting that there's more to you without having to "sell" verbally.

Otherwise, take stock at what things you might improve. Is your vibe off?

Based on experience, I admit I’ve had great interactions just with positive vibe. This is something I’m working on. But with some girls you got to be a little serious and alpha.

(12-23-2015 12:49 PM)kaotic Wrote:  Ramble, bullshit if you need to. Talking about Korea obviously jolted her intested in the convo.

Not sure why you dropped a white knighting story in there, I would've talked about how Koreans passing out wasted in the financial district is hilarious, or how you checked out the DMZ, etc.

I don't know why you were negging her at the end, she was already leaving.

I used the story about protecting a girl in korea because it’s a DHV. And I negged her at the end was because she was leaving. I was thinking maybe if I neg her it might get her emotionally riled up that she might stay and talk instead.

(12-23-2015 12:52 PM)Cruisen_Chubby Wrote:  You talk too much.

Don't give away the farm. Ask open ended questions-- at the end of the conversation you should know a good deal about her and, due to her self absorbed nature, she will know very little about you; but should be intrigued.

I don’t talk a lot. The script above is short. The most I talk is 2 – 3 sentences. Very short. I agree that at the end of the conversation that she should know less about me than I know about her.

I got a question for you. Can you give examples of open-ended questions?

(12-23-2015 02:09 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  1. You talk too much
2. You're trying too hard
3. Your fundamentals like posture, eye contact, smiling too much, playing with your hands, touching your face, and leaning into the conversation probably suck

Where in the script above am I talking a lot? It shows the most sentences I used was no more than 2 – 3 sentences.

- My posture is fine. Eye contact strong and manly. I don’t smile a lot, just few times that last seconds. Not nervous.

- I gesture my hands to stress strong points in conversation. But I can see how this may come across as “try hard.” I could turn this off.

- I don’t lean in. The only time I do is if the girl doesn’t speak up like if it noisy, etc.

- I tend to talk a bit fast. I will slow down in the future.

Quote: Day game is a lot more about how you're saying it, rather than what you're actually saying.

You're still in that mindset that game is about convincing women through spoken dialogue that you're suitable.

Yes I know, its more about vibing. This is something I must work on.

Post: #8

This is the problem with guys trying to distance themselves from the fundamentals, because they feel that they are too groovy to be associated with PUA culture.

Attraction, Comfort, Seduction.

If you've met a girl within the last five minutes, you are by definition in the attraction building stage.

You should be using value building routines to lock her in, not escalating into try to touch her hand. Indirect kino is ok at this point, but focus on establishing attraction. At this point, don't do anything that might scare her off. She's talking to you, so you're already headed in the correct direction.

Once you've got her hooked, enough that she's actually interested in talking to you and not just replying out of politeness, you move into comfort building. You'll run comfort building routines. For example, I'll tell girls that I didn't lose my virginity till late in life, because it was always I wanted to wait till I met the right girl. When I do this, it convinces girls that I'm a good guy that isn't just interested in sex, and they become more comfortable and drop their guard.

Having established comfort, you can then phase into the seduction phase, with more direct kino and eventually sticking your dick in her vestibule.

Go read the Mystery Method. It helped me a lot, I know it will help you.

Post: #9

... What do you look like?

Post: #10

(12-23-2015 02:09 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  You're still in that mindset that game is about convincing women through spoken dialogue that you're suitable. It's more about actually being suitable, and knowing you're suitable.

So much this.

Post: #11

(12-23-2015 09:41 PM)Suits Wrote:  If you've met a girl within the last five minutes, you are by definition in the attraction building stage.

You should be using value building routines to lock her in, not escalating into try to touch her hand. Indirect kino is ok at this point, but focus on establishing attraction. At this point, don't do anything that might scare her off. She's talking to you, so you're already headed in the correct direction.

I tried to hold her hand because I came across a video of an NYC based pua by the name of wayne who actually holds a girl’s hand early in the interaction during his gay game. Admittingly, I did have a few successes with this actually.

Quote:Once you've got her hooked, enough that she's actually interested in talking to you and not just replying out of politeness, you move into comfort building. You'll run comfort building routines. For example, I'll tell girls that I didn't lose my virginity till late in life, because it was always I wanted to wait till I met the right girl. When I do this, it convinces girls that I'm a good guy that isn't just interested in sex, and they become more comfortable and drop their guard.

This is a good a comfort routine I can use infield. But using this Comfort routine may sound a bit weird in day game. Do you know other Comfort routines that fits in day game?

Quote:Having established comfort, you can then phase into the seduction phase, with more direct kino and eventually sticking your dick in her vestibule.

Go read the Mystery Method. It helped me a lot, I know it will help you.

I did. But the mystery method isn’t designed for day game. If as you said above that I shouldn’t be ”touching” girls as part of my routine then it defeats the purpose of following the mystery method since the seduction phase involves kino touching. Touching in the day therefore wouldn’t be congruent to the Mystery Method.

Also, what can you tell me about RSD's methods when they suggest to say whatever comes out your mouth as long as you're self-amused and positive?

Post: #12

(12-24-2015 12:38 AM)nidall Wrote:  

(12-23-2015 09:41 PM)Suits Wrote:  If you've met a girl within the last five minutes, you are by definition in the attraction building stage.

You should be using value building routines to lock her in, not escalating into try to touch her hand. Indirect kino is ok at this point, but focus on establishing attraction. At this point, don't do anything that might scare her off. She's talking to you, so you're already headed in the correct direction.

I tried to hold her hand because I came across a video of an NYC based pua by the name of wayne who actually holds a girl’s hand early in the interaction during his gay game. Admittingly, I did have a few successes with this actually.

Quote:Once you've got her hooked, enough that she's actually interested in talking to you and not just replying out of politeness, you move into comfort building. You'll run comfort building routines. For example, I'll tell girls that I didn't lose my virginity till late in life, because it was always I wanted to wait till I met the right girl. When I do this, it convinces girls that I'm a good guy that isn't just interested in sex, and they become more comfortable and drop their guard.

This is a good a comfort routine I can use infield. But using this Comfort routine may sound a bit weird in day game. Do you know other Comfort routines that fits in day game?

Quote:Having established comfort, you can then phase into the seduction phase, with more direct kino and eventually sticking your dick in her vestibule.

Go read the Mystery Method. It helped me a lot, I know it will help you.

I did. But the mystery method isn’t designed for day game. If as you said above that I shouldn’t be ”touching” girls as part of my routine then it defeats the purpose of following the mystery method since the seduction phase involves kino touching. Touching in the day therefore wouldn’t be congruent to the Mystery Method.

Also, what can you tell me about RSD's methods when they suggest to say whatever comes out your mouth as long as you're self-amused and positive?

Post: #13

You may need to meet up with one of the more experienced players on the forum to be properly diagnosed. I don't think the issue is the dialogue.

There may be a nervous tic or various subconscious cues that you're giving off.

Have a buddy record you on his cell phone and then you can watch yourself.

Post: #14

Follow this model, Beginner Daygame (Infield Guide), for a month and around 200 approaches without paying too much attention to results. That should get you through the initial pain period and for the most part desensitize you to approaching so that you can start focusing more on the smaller details.

If you don't get any positive interactions (basically a girl enjoyed talking to you) during this period, there is some kind of issue in your appearance, hygiene or behavior. Such problem should be glaring and easy to spot for any reasonably experienced guy.

Post: #15

(12-24-2015 12:25 PM)reino341 Wrote:  Follow this model, Beginner Daygame (Infield Guide), for a month and around 200 approaches without paying too much attention to results.

If you don't get any positive interactions (basically a girl enjoyed talking to you) during this period, there is some kind of issue in your appearance, hygiene or behavior.

Appreciate the link. I'm looking into it.

I'm very good looking. So appearance can't be it. Maybe it's the possibility that I'm getting older (I'm 45). This could be a major factor.

(12-24-2015 11:59 AM)Cruisen_Chubby Wrote:  You may need to meet up with one of the more experienced players on the forum to be properly diagnosed. I don't think the issue is the dialogue.

There may be a nervous tic or various subconscious cues that you're giving off..

Can you recommend a few great players on this forum that may help? I'd greatly appreciate it.

Post: #16

(12-25-2015 02:28 AM)nidall Wrote:  I'm very good looking. So appearance can't be it. Maybe it's the possibility that I'm getting older (I'm 45). This could be a major factor.

... Are you for real?

Post: #17

I can tell you're a a passionate girl but you're a bit insecure.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Were you trying to 'DHV' and breake her 'bitch shield'? (meaning you go to pickup forums)

Where did you get that line? get those shits out of your head. Just be normal.

Post: #18

(12-26-2015 04:40 AM)Sebastian Wrote:  I can tell you're a a passionate girl but you're a bit insecure.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Were you trying to 'DHV' and breake her 'bitch shield'? (meaning you go to pickup forums)

Where did you get that line? get those shits out of your head. Just be normal.

How was that line a DHV? I was trying to break her bitch shield and get her to stay by cold reading her which is push-pull in disguise. Maybe that way she would've stayed around. I've tried this same tactic before on 2 other girls before and it worked. But I admit that I didn't use this specific line. I made it up on the spot.

What would you use to keep a girl from leaving?

Post: #19

Look I just used that term because I knew you were into that PUA stuff. I used to run around with those stupid 'line' when I started to talk to strange women.

There is no such Line that can keep a girl staying. She probably made up her decision in 5 seconds of meeting you.
If you keep trying to find that 'solution', you will be digging your own grave.
you already said 'I'm Dying' (meaning you are very frustrated)

forget about those magic lines and just talk normal.

if they don't like you they don't like you.

(12-26-2015 06:12 AM)nidall Wrote:  

(12-26-2015 04:40 AM)Sebastian Wrote:  I can tell you're a a passionate girl but you're a bit insecure.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Were you trying to 'DHV' and breake her 'bitch shield'? (meaning you go to pickup forums)

Where did you get that line? get those shits out of your head. Just be normal.

How was that line a DHV? I was trying to break her bitch shield and get her to stay by cold reading her which is push-pull in disguise. Maybe that way she would've stayed around. I've tried this same tactic before on 2 other girls before and it worked. But I admit that I didn't use this specific line. I made it up on the spot.

What would you use to keep a girl from leaving?

Post: #20

Look I just used that term because I knew you were into that PUA stuff. I used to run around with those stupid 'line' when I started to talk to strange women.

There is no such Line that can keep a girl staying. She probably made up her decision in 5 seconds of meeting you.
If you keep trying to find that 'solution', you will be digging your own grave.
you already said 'I'm Dying' (meaning you are very frustrated)

forget about those magic lines and just talk normal.

if they don't like you they don't like you.

(12-26-2015 06:12 AM)nidall Wrote:  

(12-26-2015 04:40 AM)Sebastian Wrote:  I can tell you're a a passionate girl but you're a bit insecure.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Were you trying to 'DHV' and breake her 'bitch shield'? (meaning you go to pickup forums)

Where did you get that line? get those shits out of your head. Just be normal.

How was that line a DHV? I was trying to break her bitch shield and get her to stay by cold reading her which is push-pull in disguise. Maybe that way she would've stayed around. I've tried this same tactic before on 2 other girls before and it worked. But I admit that I didn't use this specific line. I made it up on the spot.

What would you use to keep a girl from leaving?

Post: #21

(12-26-2015 05:33 PM)Sebastian Wrote:  forget about those magic lines and just talk normal.

But just to let you know, I have had past success in convincing a girl not to leave by cold reading her. Its just that it didn't work in this case.

You mentioned that one should engage in normal conversations. But there are PUAs who use those "magic lines" that actually work. I won't mention any specific names but there are a few PUAs on YouTube who employ them effectively. I'm not saying that one shouldn't have normal conversations. Just that maybe it does help when used properly.

It's possible that a good mix between good conversations and "magic" like DHVs in stories can help?

Post: #22

Don't take this the wrong way but you suck at game. But that's okay. Most people suck as they start out and you can learn to get better.

Here is my advice to you.

Buy Roosh's "Day Bang"; you met this girl during the day and if you want to game during the day you need to learn how to do it the right way; Roosh's book will teach you.

When you read his book you will realize that you messed up your approach with the Korean girl from the outset by using a personal opener on the street--very tough to do. You will also learn how to guide the conversation to the point were you can get her number. If you just keep babbling of course the conversation fizzles out, you need to learn how to get her number the right way and Roosh will teach you.

Also here is a tip, don't mention that story about stopping the guy from assaulting the girl ever again, when you first meet someone. If you mention that she will start thinking about you assaulting her. That is the reason marketing companies never mention negatives. For example if a certain restaurant chain advertised itself as being ecoli free you would wonder how many people got ecoli there in the past.

Post: #23

(12-29-2015 01:58 AM)Dawn_Snow Wrote:  Also here is a tip, don't mention that story about stopping the guy from assaulting the girl ever again, when you first meet someone.

Just to let you know, I've tried this opener before and it's worked. It actually got this girl's attention initially. If you read the field report at the start of my thread, you'd see she was impressed by this given her reaction.

Also, my story to her about the assault is a DHV. You mention it's a negative and imply that I shouldn't mention negatives. But many DHV stories have "negatives" especially those that convey protection.

I got 2 questions for you:
1) I read Day Bang. So where did you say I messed up exactly in my approach?
2) What opener would you use since you're an expert on the subject?

Post: #24

It's a weird story to be sharing to someone you've known 15 seconds.

Post: #25

(12-29-2015 02:16 AM)nidall Wrote:  

(12-29-2015 01:58 AM)Dawn_Snow Wrote:  Also here is a tip, don't mention that story about stopping the guy from assaulting the girl ever again, when you first meet someone.

Just to let you know, I've tried this opener before and it's worked. It actually got this girl's attention initially. If you read the field report at the start of my thread, you'd see she was impressed by this given her reaction.

You got the basic down pretty well but your calibration is off, because your field testing is off.

It doesn't work unless it results in the girl going out on a date with you.

It doesn't work unless it results in the girl sleeping with you.

There was the story on this forum, a guy who is an approach machine went up to Roosh after his conference in DC and said "Hey man I got this great opener it gets every girl attention even though its a bit silly"

Roosh said: "Does this get you laid?" The guy went blank.

The point of approaching isn't to get a girl's attention or talking to you, its to eventually sleep with them. I promise you if we go sarging blind I can easily get 10 numbers in an hour and none of it would go anywhere, whereas if I calibrate I might only get 2 but one of it will result in a date.

The guys here are giving you good advice, that story is not what you tell to someone you just meet. It reeks of "too much information". Sure she might show some peaked interest but in her mind is probably "this guy is so silly"

When guys tell you you talk to much, they are not counting how many words you spit out. You talk too much if you do most of the talking. You need to get the girl talking, and listen. Listening is the biggest game changer. Asks her questions and throw bait when appropriate. For ex, you could have dug deeper about Korea, what's her favorite place/activity, that gives you an idea about how to ask her out later.

Still I think you are on the right track. Pay attention to your calibration and field test method and keep approaching like you are doing now. Remember, an interaction goes well only if she went on a date with you. Numbers dont count, day or night game.