Post: #1

"I was recently the victim of such a woman in a club. She was quite pretty and petite so I approached her with a standard opener. I moved her to a quieter room so I could entertain her like the professional clown that I am. To rule out her being a “shy” girl, I did my jig for a little longer than necessary, but after getting strong red lights to further escalation steps, I had to withdraw."

The other night at a bar, I was chatting with an attractive young woman outside smoking a cigarette. But...she liked talking about snowboarding. A lot. A subject which I know desperately little about.

Eventually, however, we went inside and I had a drink with her, and she started asking a few questions about me ("sooo, what do you do?"), but her interaction still seemed fairly self-centered. Her friends soon came around to bug her to head out to another place, and I thought my chances of grabbing her number weren't that great, but I gave it a shot anyway and was rebuffed.

However, if her pals hadn't wanted to leave, I'm certain she would have let me chat with her for an hour or more if I hadn't either moved on or attempted to escalate.

What strong "red lights" should I look for?

Post: #2

I've had this same thing happen to me also. I'm sure my problem was not escalating physically soon enough. Then the girl just starts using you for validation.

By escalating you are both making your intentions clear and are simultaneously performing some screening against time wasters.

Post: #3

To Be Continued.

Post: #4

The thing is, even if you are getting great IOI's and she happily gives her number, it can end up being a fruitless endeavor, as has been mentioned on this forum time and time again.

Take the interaction as far as possible on the night. I think you know in your gut if you've hooked or not, start trusted it more.

Post: #5

(12-21-2015 05:18 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  "I was recently the victim of such a woman in a club. She was quite pretty and petite so I approached her with a standard opener. I moved her to a quieter room so I could entertain her like the professional clown that I am. To rule out her being a “shy” girl, I did my jig for a little longer than necessary, but after getting strong red lights to further escalation steps, I had to withdraw."

You're not really giving us a whole lot of information about the scene.
- dance club? martini lounge? loud sports bar?
- was it packed, or was it thin?
- how were you dressed, how was she dressed
- what kind of reaction did you get

The positive is it that you opened her and she complied when you moved.

But I personally don't like describing game as "clown" anything. If you're entertaining her by telling stories and jokes, you're setting yourself up to be judged by her.

Are you funny enough?
Are you entertaining?

Does funny and entertaining make HER pussy wet?
It does for some girls, it doesn't for others.

And then if you are doing that sort of game, you're depending on getting the go ahead, getting good signals to continue.

With that mentality, it's easy for her to get bored and then send you bad "signals"

What I don't see here is whether she engaged YOU?

If you crack a joke, did she just laugh, or did she try to seek rapport with you?

It almost sounds like the conversation wasn't open.

Scenario 2...

(12-21-2015 05:18 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  The other night at a bar, I was chatting with an attractive young woman outside smoking a cigarette. But...she liked talking about snowboarding. A lot. A subject which I know desperately little about.

Eventually, however, we went inside and I had a drink with her, and she started asking a few questions about me ("sooo, what do you do?"), but her interaction still seemed fairly self-centered. Her friends soon came around to bug her to head out to another place, and I thought my chances of grabbing her number weren't that great, but I gave it a shot anyway and was rebuffed.

However, if her pals hadn't wanted to leave, I'm certain she would have let me chat with her for an hour or more if I hadn't either moved on or attempted to escalate.

What strong "red lights" should I look for?

So it's good that you got her to move.
I don't know if the drink was a good move or not, it could go either way.
It's good that she asked about you.

You didn't tell us what you said to her or how she reacted to you.

And then when the friend comes along, rather than engage the friend, you just went for the #.

The way this reads is that you were just keeping her company while her friend was about to show up.

.........................

I don't know what school of game you've learned, but it doesn't seem to me that you have
1) Your own philosophy about game
2) An overall strategy about how you want to bed women, who you want to be
3) A conversational game plan to get
- laughs i.e. control over her emotions through your language
- compliance

So for the things that you've said, I can't actually answer your question - because to me, it doesn't seem like you're running proper game. Seems like you're winging it and don't know what you want to do next.

To answer your question, when to pull out, let's just go back to a simple model

1) see a girl
2) walk over
3) get her attention
4) deliver your opener
....
5) when she finally opens, you get her logistics.
- in scenario 2, "hey who you wit, where you been, where you do you live - the typical getting to know you type question". It could be something like, "You must be one of those west side girls, I heard they're trouble"

6) Then you do your "material" whatever it is.
7) get compliance by asking her to move around, to engage
8) you're looking for her willing participation.

Now Red Flags/Red Lights..

A red light is either
- no rapport
- no compliance
- inattention

BUT, you'll never really know if she's feeling you, until you put her to the question.

So If she's generally doing what you want, moving around, twirling, reacting...but not being pro-active.

Assume that she's attracted because she
- she is complying with you
- she hasn't left, and she's been free to go.

But if she's not doing what you want, non compliance....
Most girls that aren't feeling you, will check their phones, turn their heads away, basically not pay attention.

So that's a clear indication that your rap is failing, for now.

This is where you have to use your experience.

Do I cut and run if she's giving me bad body language?

1) Yes, if this is a bar or venue you don't go to often. And if it's a one off, or an infrequent, ALWAYS ASK THE BUYING QUESTION.
- hey I know a cooler place, let's go (instadate)
- Hey lemme get your number (number close)

2) No, if it's a bar I go to a lot.

I know I'm going to see this chick again, and we're going to talk again. Provided I wasn't too obnoxious, the next chat will be better because of false familiarity. She thinks she knows me, and girls prefer to bang guys that they "know". Plus if you're a personable person, when you bounce off of her, and she sees you interact with other folks, you can play that to your advantage.

3) If she's a regular and I'm a regular and I go for it and bomb - It doesn't matter, because that girl might be feeling you later on. Dated this unicorn from Monterrey like that. Rejected 2wice, in bed with her the 3rd time. Happens way more often than you think.

So to recap

1) You need a plan
2) If the plan doesn't go the way you want, and you're getting bad body language
- if it's not your home turf, ask the buying question and bounce
- on your home turf, just bounce, and be like "til" we meet again
- on your turf, asking the buying question and bomb, hit her up again when you see her again.

WIA

Post: #6

Positive signs:
Asking questions about you
Strong eye contact
Repeatedly playing with her hair
Touching you/responding to your touch
Moving/standing closer to you
Gives off a relaxed vibe
Genuine laughing/smiling

Negative signs:
Texting/playing with phone <--- HUGE red flag
Looking around the bar
Mentioning her friends she came with or is meeting later
A vibe that is a little too formal or polite (she is not relaxed around you)
Body language that is closed off (entire books on this, read them)
Fake/polite smiling & laughing

This is assuming you are talking to the girl and she isn't giving you the passive blow off (i.e. acting indifferent and basically giving you zero conversational feedback in hopes that you just wander away). The main thing to look for with these time waster girls these days is the smartphone. If a girl is repeatedly pulling out her phone while you're talking to her, it's a huge indication that she's not taking you seriously and isn't invested in the interaction. Eject yourself 95% of the time in those cases and save yourself the trouble.

There is an awful lot more that could be said on this topic but I think these are good basic newbie guidelines.

Post: #7

I think openness to basic 1) touch, and 2) movement, are the two surest signs of a nightgame interaction that's "on".

Post: #8

I usually move on if all I get is rapport breaking behavior after minute or two of plowing. In night game early escalation is key too.

Post: #9

(12-21-2015 09:24 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(12-21-2015 05:18 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  "I was recently the victim of such a woman in a club. She was quite pretty and petite so I approached her with a standard opener. I moved her to a quieter room so I could entertain her like the professional clown that I am. To rule out her being a “shy” girl, I did my jig for a little longer than necessary, but after getting strong red lights to further escalation steps, I had to withdraw."

The positive is it that you opened her and she complied when you moved.

But I personally don't like describing game as "clown" anything. If you're entertaining her by telling stories and jokes, you're setting yourself up to be judged by her.

Are you funny enough?
Are you entertaining?

Oh hey, I was actually quoting Roosh there - sorry for not making that clear. I was attempting to gain more insight into the "red lights" he mentioned in that post on the blog and relate it to my experience.

Post: #10

All the advice above are awesome.

I believe it comes down to one thing,

The lady has to follow the man, in order for the man to lead, which is basically about compliance.

When your strolling/walking with a lady across a bar/street/mall, will she hold your hand or allow you to put your arm around her. If she acts weird - that's a bad sign.

When you suggest she and you meet up later for drinks does she comply? Check

When you suggest she leave the bar with you, does she comply? Check

Constantly checking for compliance.

If the lady does not follow the man, the man cannot lead.

A man's job is to lead the interaction and the woman job is to follow, much like a traditional marriage.

Post: #11

This is why club game sucks. You're forced to play the part of jester. Clowning about for girls you don't know is an absolute form of pedestalization.

Post: #12

(12-23-2015 03:49 AM)Dirty Professor Wrote:  This is why club game sucks. You're forced to play the part of jester. Clowning about for girls you don't know is an absolute form of pedestalization.

I've the impression that you can clown about without coming across needy. Not so easy to do, though.

Post: #13

(12-22-2015 02:35 AM)reino341 Wrote:  I usually move on if all I get is rapport breaking behavior after minute or two of plowing. In night game early escalation is key too.

Can someone explain how the second sentence can be implemented in night game?

Post: #14

(12-23-2015 03:49 AM)Dirty Professor Wrote:  This is why club game sucks. You're forced to play the part of jester. Clowning about for girls you don't know is an absolute form of pedestalization.

This.

Not my fave thing to be doing at all.