Post: #26

(12-18-2015 01:54 PM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

(12-18-2015 01:07 PM)marty Wrote:  First let me start with the current governing party, Fidesz and the prime minister, Viktor Orbán. Although they share a lot of the views we support here, I would strongly oppose blindly following them. To put it briefly: the ideas are (mostly) good, the execution is simply poor. First of all, the government is really corrupt. Their goal is not to serve the people and make their lives better, it is to get as rich as possible. Examples abound. There is a friend of Orbán's who came from the village where Orbán lives. He went from an ordinary gasfitter to one of the richest man in Hungary. All within a few years. What a coincidence. This pop singer, Ákos is a well-known supporter of the party and is heavily backed by the government. He receives subsidies from the government worth several hundred thousand dollars (not forints) annually. So even though I find the move of Magyar Telekom disgusting, the backlash of the government was probably not because of the move itself but because it was against one of its pals (the reason he got the sponsorship in the first place I guess).

Even if every allegation of corruption is 100% true, that is still an extremely small price to pay for the very survival of your nation. Chump change, really. Look at America's ostensibly squeaky clean politicians. They may not siphon money directly, but they are beholden to powerful donors and implement destructive policies so that after their term is over they can make millions (still chump change) in some bullshit advisory role for Wall Street firms.

Orban may steal $100m direct. His American counterpart will launch a war costing the country $4 trillion on behalf of his elite puppet masters. So in reality, America loses far more money in corruption than the great majority of "banana republics." It's just much more inefficient, in that for every dollar our politicians actually earn, they cost the country $1000. In Hungary the ratio is much closer to 1:1.

Oh, I could list numerous other examples and it's not only corruption.

The country's getting poorer, there aren't enough high-paying jobs, young people are leaving the country. London is the second biggest Hungarian city tied with Debrecen with a population of about 200k (!). That is insane. Yet all the average citizen can hear is how great everything is and the Hungarian reforms are working. It is because he controls public broadcasting. It is total bullshit. Like the liberal propaganda in the West, entirely fake. Meanwhile taxes are rising, every neighbouring country is doing better and Hungary is becoming a worse place to live.

Also, Orbán is completely out of touch with reality. He wanted to impose a tax on the use of the internet for Christ's sake. How stupid is that? He only backed down after hundreds of thousands of people marched on the streets of Budapest. Maybe corruption is a small price to pay but there's a lot more to it. And maybe he's still the best possible candidate but far from a good one.

Post: #27

(12-18-2015 02:30 PM)DCM Wrote:  

(12-18-2015 01:54 PM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

(12-18-2015 01:07 PM)marty Wrote:  First let me start with the current governing party, Fidesz and the prime minister, Viktor Orbán. Although they share a lot of the views we support here, I would strongly oppose blindly following them. To put it briefly: the ideas are (mostly) good, the execution is simply poor. First of all, the government is really corrupt. Their goal is not to serve the people and make their lives better, it is to get as rich as possible. Examples abound. There is a friend of Orbán's who came from the village where Orbán lives. He went from an ordinary gasfitter to one of the richest man in Hungary. All within a few years. What a coincidence. This pop singer, Ákos is a well-known supporter of the party and is heavily backed by the government. He receives subsidies from the government worth several hundred thousand dollars (not forints) annually. So even though I find the move of Magyar Telekom disgusting, the backlash of the government was probably not because of the move itself but because it was against one of its pals (the reason he got the sponsorship in the first place I guess).

Even if every allegation of corruption is 100% true, that is still an extremely small price to pay for the very survival of your nation. Chump change, really. Look at America's ostensibly squeaky clean politicians. They may not siphon money directly, but they are beholden to powerful donors and implement destructive policies so that after their term is over they can make millions (still chump change) in some bullshit advisory role for Wall Street firms.

Orban may steal $100m direct. His American counterpart will launch a war costing the country $4 trillion on behalf of his elite puppet masters. So in reality, America loses far more money in corruption than the great majority of "banana republics." It's just much more inefficient, in that for every dollar our politicians actually earn, they cost the country $1000. In Hungary the ratio is much closer to 1:1.

Most allegations of corruption are unfortunately true. It is being done in blatantly obvious ways and sometimes it seems like the government isn't even trying to hide it. Nonetheless, I completely agree with you in that it is still a very small price to pay if in return Hungary won't succumb to the western feminist ideologies as long as Fidesz is in power. If you have a decent job in Hungary (or better yet income from abroad) the corruption does not affect you in any way in practice, but the atmosphere of the country and general attitude of people always does.

If only Hungary managed to keep a government with similar views until western countries start collapsing visibly...

Orban deservedly should become wealthier beyond his wildest dreams. Obama could be a billionaire openly accepting 'gifts' on the White House lawn, and I'd be thrilled if he was actually a great president willing to tell migrants to fuck off.

Post: #28

   

That's it - I'm learning Hungarian.

Post: #29

(12-18-2015 02:34 PM)marty Wrote:  Meanwhile taxes are rising, every neighboring country is doing better and Hungary is becoming a worse place to live.

Every neighboring country is doing better? You mean economically? That exactly is the problem in modern society - it's all about the money. Socially speaking these same countries are in the shitter and most likely will turn into an Islamic hellhole by the end of this decade.

(12-18-2015 02:34 PM)marty Wrote:  Also, Orbán is completely out of touch with reality. He wanted to impose a tax on the use of the internet for Christ's sake. How stupid is that?

The U.S. does it in several states. Again you are focusing only on economic issues.

(12-18-2015 02:34 PM)marty Wrote:  He only backed down after hundreds of thousands of people marched on the streets of Budapest. Maybe corruption is a small price to pay but there's a lot more to it. And maybe he's still the best possible candidate but far from a good one.

Hey, you can have Merkel, Feynmann, or Hollande anytime - take your pick!

Post: #30

(12-18-2015 04:50 PM)CactusCat589 Wrote:  

(12-18-2015 02:30 PM)DCM Wrote:  

(12-18-2015 01:54 PM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

(12-18-2015 01:07 PM)marty Wrote:  First let me start with the current governing party, Fidesz and the prime minister, Viktor Orbán. Although they share a lot of the views we support here, I would strongly oppose blindly following them. To put it briefly: the ideas are (mostly) good, the execution is simply poor. First of all, the government is really corrupt. Their goal is not to serve the people and make their lives better, it is to get as rich as possible. Examples abound. There is a friend of Orbán's who came from the village where Orbán lives. He went from an ordinary gasfitter to one of the richest man in Hungary. All within a few years. What a coincidence. This pop singer, Ákos is a well-known supporter of the party and is heavily backed by the government. He receives subsidies from the government worth several hundred thousand dollars (not forints) annually. So even though I find the move of Magyar Telekom disgusting, the backlash of the government was probably not because of the move itself but because it was against one of its pals (the reason he got the sponsorship in the first place I guess).

Even if every allegation of corruption is 100% true, that is still an extremely small price to pay for the very survival of your nation. Chump change, really. Look at America's ostensibly squeaky clean politicians. They may not siphon money directly, but they are beholden to powerful donors and implement destructive policies so that after their term is over they can make millions (still chump change) in some bullshit advisory role for Wall Street firms.

Orban may steal $100m direct. His American counterpart will launch a war costing the country $4 trillion on behalf of his elite puppet masters. So in reality, America loses far more money in corruption than the great majority of "banana republics." It's just much more inefficient, in that for every dollar our politicians actually earn, they cost the country $1000. In Hungary the ratio is much closer to 1:1.

Most allegations of corruption are unfortunately true. It is being done in blatantly obvious ways and sometimes it seems like the government isn't even trying to hide it. Nonetheless, I completely agree with you in that it is still a very small price to pay if in return Hungary won't succumb to the western feminist ideologies as long as Fidesz is in power. If you have a decent job in Hungary (or better yet income from abroad) the corruption does not affect you in any way in practice, but the atmosphere of the country and general attitude of people always does.

If only Hungary managed to keep a government with similar views until western countries start collapsing visibly...

Orban deservedly should become wealthier beyond his wildest dreams. Obama could be a billionaire openly accepting 'gifts' on the White House lawn, and I'd be thrilled if he was actually a great president willing to tell migrants to fuck off.

I don't understand this petty obsession with the leader of your country having to work for pennies. In many countries in Europe the prime minister makes less than his better cabinet employees. The result is that the politicians have to grovel for the EU and other globalist orgs (WTO, UN, WHO, many more) in order to get that payday. That is corruption too, just indirect.

Who cares if the leader of your country amasses some wealth, as long as he takes care of his people. I'd rather have the 'King' be rich than his money lenders and court sycophants.

Post: #31

(12-18-2015 11:02 AM)Mr. Wolf Wrote:  Magyar Telekom severed links with Kovacs after the singer's comments to private television channel Echo TV on Sunday, in which he also said that women had better "fulfil the female calling by belonging to someone, bearing a child for someone."

This seems to me to be an eminently stupid move by the government. Did they really expect a large company that sells a commodity service to the general public to continue to employ as its spokesperson someone saying stupid shit like that. No company should employ as its spokesperson someone who says crazy crap like that about an entire class of its customers. Instead of penalizing T-Mobile for acting appropriately, the government instead should be focused on getting best value for its money. Of course no government actually does that.

The spokesperson should be free to say whatever he thinks, but he cannot expect to continue being employed as a spokesperson after doing so.

How is that crazy crap? That statement wouldn't have raised an eyebrow for tens of thousands of years until about post 1980. It's interesting how the contemporary ideologists consider themselves to be the pinnacle of human civilization all evidence to the contrary.

Fact: A long term birthrate of < 2.1 is insufficient to sustain a population.
Fact: The prevalent social dynamics in the West are incompatible with a sustainable birth rate. Thus it is unnatural and thus it will not sustain itself.
Fact: It is impossible for a woman to pursue a career and at the same time successfully bear and then raise more than one or two children into young adulthood. We have watched this misguided experiment for almost half a century now and it has officially failed.

The only way to fix this problem would be artificial wombs, meaning humans being engineered/grown in incubation farms. I'm sure the Marxist left would be all over that and hopefully by the time they'll force that upon Western civilization (or what's left of it) I'll be long dead in the ground.

Post: #32

(12-18-2015 11:02 AM)Mr. Wolf Wrote:  Magyar Telekom severed links with Kovacs after the singer's comments to private television channel Echo TV on Sunday, in which he also said that women had better "fulfil the female calling by belonging to someone, bearing a child for someone."

This seems to me to be an eminently stupid move by the government. Did they really expect a large company that sells a commodity service to the general public to continue to employ as its spokesperson someone saying stupid shit like that. No company should employ as its spokesperson someone who says crazy crap like that about an entire class of its customers. Instead of penalizing T-Mobile for acting appropriately, the government instead should be focused on getting best value for its money. Of course no government actually does that.

The spokesperson should be free to say whatever he thinks, but he cannot expect to continue being employed as a spokesperson after doing so.

Nice try, bizarro-Poland.

Post: #33

I have a Hungarian girlfriend and she says the same thing as Marty.

Yes, everybody is happy he closed the border, but he's still very corrupt.

She voted for Jobbik!

Post: #34

I'm with Fast Eddie. At least many nations openly know their politicians are corrupt. I'd take that over the U.S. style any day. People here actually believe in honest politicians. They don't see the kickbacks and board of director salaries.

And even though Hungary's government is allegedly corrupt, like every other government, at least they are fighting back against feminism and SJW's. The fact that an entire nation's government is speaking on behalf of many views held on this forum speaks numbers.

Post: #35

(12-18-2015 08:43 PM)KorbenDallas Wrote:  I have a Hungarian girlfriend and she says the same thing as Marty.

Yes, everybody is happy he closed the border, but he's still very corrupt.

Yeah, I lived there for over a year and have some Hungarian friends who re-iterate what Marty spoke of, there's always layers to these sorts of situations. That said, it's important that there's strong leaders that will stand in the face of political correctness.. because they set the example of a country that is uncompromising when it comes to tradition, culture and values.

Post: #36

I'm flabbergasted to see anyone slamming Orban for "economy", as I keep continuously hearing great news about the country, and not from its media. For example, while hundreds of thousands of Croatian citizens are being fleeced off and evicted by fradulent CHF-denominated loans, Orban told the banks to fuck off and converted all loans to forints. It has also banished IMF and its globalist austerity policies from the country. Also, several Hungarian people I met told me that the government has done a great job with the economy.

The unemployment rate is 6%: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/hungary/...yment-rate
The government debt to GDP ratio is stable at 70% and falling: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/hungary/...ebt-to-gdp
Hungary exports more than it imports: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/hungary/current-account

I don't know what these unsatisfied Hungarian people are smoking because I'd love to live there. The bizzaro language would be a pain, but otherwise it seems like a very prosperous country with a great future.

Post: #37

I agree with you eel.

Just so everyone knows, jobbik is more rightwing than Orban.

Orban is corrupt and because it's a small country, the exact nature of his personal corruption is well known.

one thing I want to add though.

These aren't "bizzaro" Hungarians, and it has been a tough place to live for the past 70 years, so, I don't understand your hostility that Hungarians are willing to call out their leader for corruption when everyone in Hungary is wondering why a giant soccer stadium was built in his hometown of a hundred people...

Post: #38

Quote:Senior Fidesz officials have made controversial comments about gender equality in recent days. Fidesz elder statesman and Parliament speaker Laszlo Kover told the party's congress on Sunday that as a community, Fidesz wanted none of what he called "gender madness."

"We don't want to turn Hungary into a futureless society of man-hating women and woman-fearing, feminine men who only see children and families as an obstacle to self-fulfilment," he said to wild applause.

"We wish that our daughters considered bearing grandchildren for us to be the highest quality of self-fulfilment."

Not saying the ruling party there is to be admired, but that sounds like a well phrased, moderate and even sentimental statement.

Post: #39

Guys,there is a reason why thousands of young people leave Hungary every year. Its a hopeless shitty place to live in. The salaries are absolute joke, I had a a salary of 800 USD as a Senior IT guy (monthly, after taxes) and with this according to the statistics I was in the upper 15% of the population.

The taxes are the highest in Europe, the salaries almost the lowest. Every year things get worse not better. Everything is old and rundown, the capital is disgustingly dirty. I can not say anything good about Hungary, the girls are not that nice either, they look OK but this hopelessness makes them quite bitchy. There is a reason why the divorce rate is around 50%.

In the last 500 years Hungary was always the loser of history, this won't change I am sure of it.

Post: #40

(12-19-2015 02:19 AM)Glaucon Wrote:  Guys,there is a reason why thousands of young people leave Hungary every year. Its a hopeless shitty place to live in. The salaries are absolute joke, I had a a salary of 800 USD as a Senior IT guy (monthly, after taxes) and with this according to the statistics I was in the upper 15% of the population.

The taxes are the highest in Europe, the salaries almost the lowest. Every year things get worse not better. Everything is old and rundown, the capital is disgustingly dirty. I can not say anything good about Hungary, the girls are not that nice either, they look OK but this hopelessness makes them quite bitchy. There is a reason why the divorce rate is around 50%.

In the last 500 years Hungary was always the loser of history, this won't change I am sure of it.

It's interesting to hear about other people's experiences. But I'm confused with what you said about Hungary having the highest taxes in Europe. Doesn't Hungary have a 16% flat tax rate on income? That's a pretty low rate for Croatian standards, I wish I had to give only 16% of my salary to the government.

Post: #41

It's quite interesting how there's such a wide range in opinions in this thread about the economic and political outlook of Hungary.

Post: #42

(12-19-2015 03:58 AM)Khan Wrote:  It's interesting to hear about other people's experiences. But I'm confused with what you said about Hungary having the highest taxes in Europe. Doesn't Hungary have a 16% flat tax rate on income? That's a pretty low rate for Croatian standards, I wish I had to give only 16% of my salary to the government.

and 27% VAT.

edit I checked the math again so:
40% of your salary goes to taxes basically, so you get about half to hand. And then comes the 27% VAT. I am not kidding.

For example, I got 380,000 HUF brutto. That translated to 230,000 HUF what I really got. But my company overall payed around 600,000 HUF because its double taxed, the fucking goverment taxes twice your salary, at your employer end and when you get it.

I get more than 4 times the salary in Austria for the same fucking job. I just moved 200 miles to the west.
Sorry for the swearwords but this whole situation just boils my blood.

Post: #43

I can't comment on taxes or overall salaries being high or low, but isn't the $800 salary easily explained by the difference in exchange rates, i.e. GDP PPP (purchasing power parity)? I.e. the amount you receive in forints seems worth little in USD, but that doesn't mean you can't buy a lot of things for those forints, since prices of domestic goods are very low.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/hungary/...capita-ppp

That's how it is in Czech Republic (where I've spent a lot of time) - they are super rich compared to Croatia, but when they travel they get hammered by their currency being worth very little € or $.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/czech-re...capita-ppp

(compare to Croatia which practically has the Euro, and where domestic prices are hideously high so your money doesn't go far, but when we travel it's no trouble for us)
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/croatia/...capita-ppp

Check out the direct comparison (with good prices expressed in USD) and see how much cheaper Hungary is: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/com...rrency=USD

I think a situation like in Hungary is vastly preferable - maybe you can't travel or import much, but overall you get a ton more for your money than in Croatia, where it is not economically sensible to produce anything and thus unemployment is enormous.

Post: #44

(12-18-2015 01:07 PM)marty Wrote:  First let me start with the current governing party, Fidesz and the prime minister, Viktor Orbán. Although they share a lot of the views we support here, I would strongly oppose blindly following them. To put it briefly: the ideas are (mostly) good, the execution is simply poor. First of all, the government is really corrupt. Their goal is not to serve the people and make their lives better, it is to get as rich as possible. Examples abound.

Yes, because they're a government...

If you give a group of people a 4 year period over which they are allowed to steal from everyone else without possibility of retribution, what do you expect them to do?

Sure, in some countries they put more effort into hiding the truth of this than others. No government is ever going to say;

Quote:hey guys, thanks for giving the looting power to us this time, we're now going to enjoy spending the large quantity of money we're going to loot from you, cheers.

Instead they'll just talk about their "ideas", and how they're really just looking to "serve the people".

People just don't want to stomach the idea of "I'm being robbed". Being robbed is an unpleasant, frightening experience, which causes substantial angst in the victim. It raises questions in their mind like "should I attempt to track down the robber and retrieve my property, given that he may kill me or I may have to kill him?". It's just too heavy for most people. So anything they can say to themselves to alleviate this anxiety, they will happily embrace.

And the government, consisting of other people (the suit-wearing thieves and thugs), knows this, so they offer the victim the necessary alleviating ideas:
- You are choosing this group of people who 'governs' you (your 1/200,000,000 'choice' every 4 years, versus the lobbyists daily input and the common desires of all the parties you can choose from)
- This government is 'serving the people, not itself'

Which is why it's just too blatant for a government official to take the money and spend it on hookers and blow (although occasionally some do just that). You have to use elaborate smoke and mirrors. One of my favourites, from Australia, is this:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/inv...5761764965

Quote:In the 15 months that the $672m Strategic Indigenous Housing and Infrastructure Program has been on foot -- the biggest project in remote housing -- the three communities have been abuzz with talk. Endless conversations have taken place. Designs have been drafted and re-drafted in a mania of consultation that has even included discussions on prospective residents' desired bathroom tile colours. Yet not one house has been built and the pool of money available for building is shrinking day by day.

That's $672million, that was stolen from other Australians, by a small group of suit-wearing bandits, who can never be prosecuted.

There is no such thing as government "corruption". It is like referring to smoke as being a "corruption" of fire. No, those effects aren't a "corruption", they're simply that thing behaving as is expected given it's nature.

The only real question, in this case, is: "why is this particular government, whilst serving its self-interest, not also destroying the future of it's subjects, whilst others are?".

Post: #45

(12-19-2015 01:18 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  I'm flabbergasted to see anyone slamming Orban for "economy", as I keep continuously hearing great news about the country, and not from its media. For example, while hundreds of thousands of Croatian citizens are being fleeced off and evicted by fradulent CHF-denominated loans, Orban told the banks to fuck off and converted all loans to forints. It has also banished IMF and its globalist austerity policies from the country. Also, several Hungarian people I met told me that the government has done a great job with the economy.

The unemployment rate is 6%: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/hungary/...yment-rate
The government debt to GDP ratio is stable at 70% and falling: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/hungary/...ebt-to-gdp
Hungary exports more than it imports: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/hungary/current-account

I don't know what these unsatisfied Hungarian people are smoking because I'd love to live there. The bizzaro language would be a pain, but otherwise it seems like a very prosperous country with a great future.

Some issues are really solved and some significant economical indicators are focussed on by the government to make the country look better, but many of these statistics are a bit deceiving if you don't know the background on them.

For example one of the main promises of Fidesz was to reduce the government debt significantly before they were elected. They have been pouring money into it since, but the Hungarian currency (Forint) has devalued so much as a result of their careless financial strategy in the meantime that the actual value of the debt in Forint is about the same as it was 6 years ago.

Regarding unemployment, a new measure has been introduced that if you are unemployed, unless you find work in 3 months you can choose either to be enrolled into a government work program and be assigned to a position which might not even be in the town you live in for minimal wage (or less? I'm not quite sure), or to stop receiving government benefits. While I agree with the move itself, the government started including the people who work in this scheme as 'employed' in the unemployment figures, despite the fact that a number of surveys show that these people have a very difficult time reintegrating into the actual workforce (and it gets worse the more time they spend in this 'communal service').

Other than that, while many issues which easily gain Fidesz popularity are handled promptly (like the migrant invasion, protecting people against the evil banks and CHF loans, reducing utility prices, this Telekom issue now), many also very important ones are ignored.
In their first year in power, the government gave people the choice to either forfeit all their private pension earnings or not to receive pension from the state at all later. They took money in the order of billions of dollars from the people to plug leaks in their budget. The healthcare system is crumbling, doctors are quitting their positions in groups to go abroad because of the intolerable conditions and low pay. Money is being withdrawn from higher education (most of it from universities aligned with the left), and there are many more, but these do not have the same publicity value, so they barely ever make it to international media.

These of course don't change the fact that Fidesz's stance on culture is the best I know of in Europe, and if you can afford not to depend on the government at all (if you have external income or a great job in Hungary), life can be amazing in Hungary because the culture is great, girls are hot, and you need not worry about the next move of the government affecting you.

(12-19-2015 02:19 AM)Glaucon Wrote:  Guys,there is a reason why thousands of young people leave Hungary every year. Its a hopeless shitty place to live in. The salaries are absolute joke, I had a a salary of 800 USD as a Senior IT guy (monthly, after taxes) and with this according to the statistics I was in the upper 15% of the population.

I am Hungarian myself, but I was forced to study abroad to get quality education, and even though I love Hungary more than ever after getting first hand experience with UK feminism and degeneracy, I won't be able to move home immediately after my studies are done, because there is practically no chance of earning decent money.

Post: #46

Quote:"It might be possible in Germany but we cannot accept anyone to suffer discrimination for his opinion and views."

This sentence alone makes me weep. Hungary to the rescue!

Post: #47

(12-19-2015 06:18 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  I can't comment on taxes or overall salaries being high or low, but isn't the $800 salary easily explained by the difference in exchange rates, i.e. GDP PPP (purchasing power parity)? I.e. the amount you receive in forints seems worth little in USD, but that doesn't mean you can't buy a lot of things for those forints, since prices of domestic goods are very low.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/hungary/...capita-ppp

That's how it is in Czech Republic (where I've spent a lot of time) - they are super rich compared to Croatia, but when they travel they get hammered by their currency being worth very little € or $.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/czech-re...capita-ppp

(compare to Croatia which practically has the Euro, and where domestic prices are hideously high so your money doesn't go far, but when we travel it's no trouble for us)
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/croatia/...capita-ppp

Check out the direct comparison (with good prices expressed in USD) and see how much cheaper Hungary is: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/com...rrency=USD

I think a situation like in Hungary is vastly preferable - maybe you can't travel or import much, but overall you get a ton more for your money than in Croatia, where it is not economically sensible to produce anything and thus unemployment is enormous.

I do not think any EE country is a good place to live in. Only if you earn western money. Its like Thailand.

Belive me when I say that the money in Hungary just not enough. And I am a very frugal person, I put away 60% of my salary.
And Orban's actions might seems super positive from the outside, but its just talk. You can not feel anything in Hungary, things just gets worst and worst. They do not reform what needs to be reformed. His actions is just enough to get him elected by the dump people in Hungary, which gets easier and easier as clever people are fleeing from that place.

Post: #48

(12-19-2015 07:38 AM)Glaucon Wrote:  

(12-19-2015 06:18 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  I can't comment on taxes or overall salaries being high or low, but isn't the $800 salary easily explained by the difference in exchange rates, i.e. GDP PPP (purchasing power parity)? I.e. the amount you receive in forints seems worth little in USD, but that doesn't mean you can't buy a lot of things for those forints, since prices of domestic goods are very low.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/hungary/...capita-ppp

That's how it is in Czech Republic (where I've spent a lot of time) - they are super rich compared to Croatia, but when they travel they get hammered by their currency being worth very little € or $.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/czech-re...capita-ppp

(compare to Croatia which practically has the Euro, and where domestic prices are hideously high so your money doesn't go far, but when we travel it's no trouble for us)
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/croatia/...capita-ppp

Check out the direct comparison (with good prices expressed in USD) and see how much cheaper Hungary is: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/com...rrency=USD

I think a situation like in Hungary is vastly preferable - maybe you can't travel or import much, but overall you get a ton more for your money than in Croatia, where it is not economically sensible to produce anything and thus unemployment is enormous.

I do not think any EE country is a good place to live in. Only if you earn western money. Its like Thailand.

Belive me when I say that the money in Hungary just not enough. And I am a very frugal person, I put away 60% of my salary.
And Orban's actions might seems super positive from the outside, but its just talk. You can not feel anything in Hungary, things just gets worst and worst. They do not reform what needs to be reformed. His actions is just enough to get him elected by the dump people in Hungary, which gets easier and easier as clever people are fleeing from that place.

You think the economic issues are handled any better in America or Western Europe? Face the truth bro: Hungary has been much, much poorer than the West for the better part of a century now, if not millennia. Thus, it is asinine to blame the living standard discrepancy between Hungary and the West on Orban. I hope you see this?

As for recent economic trends, it's far from clear whether Hungary is doing better or worse than its Western counterparts. In the USA we've reached a historical low on the labor force participation rate even as the national debt has nearly doubled since 2008 and interest rates were at absolute zero. Is Hungary at a historical low in employment and a historical high in national debt? I'd wager not. How much worse would the situation be in the USA if we hadn't spent the last 8 years massively abusing our reserve currency status? I'll leave that to your imagination.

So I'm not convinced Orban is any worse at economics than his Western counterparts, while being a fucking saint in comparison on things that matter for the long term survival of his nation, namely immigration and culture. I'd count your lucky stars if I were you.

Post: #49

(12-19-2015 08:46 AM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  You think the economic issues are handled any better in America or Western Europe? Face the truth bro: Hungary has been much, much poorer than the West for the better part of a century now, if not millennia. Thus, it is asinine to blame the living standard discrepancy between Hungary and the West on Orban. I hope you see this?

As for recent economic trends, it's far from clear whether Hungary is doing better or worse than its Western counterparts. In the USA we've reached a historical low on the labor force participation rate even as the national debt has nearly doubled since 2008 and interest rates were at absolute zero. Is Hungary at a historical low in employment and a historical high in national debt? I'd wager not. How much worse would the situation be in the USA if we hadn't spent the last 8 years massively abusing our reserve currency status? I'll leave that to your imagination.

So I'm not convinced Orban is any worse at economics than his Western counterparts, while being a fucking saint in comparison on things that matter for the long term survival of his nation, namely immigration and culture. I'd count your lucky stars if I were you.

You can have my lucky star, thankfully I do not live there anymore.
Its funny people try to tell Hungarians who left as soon as they could that how good Hungary is. Are you crazy? Maybe I know better after living there for 29 years. You people in the west have no idea what it is like to live in a former USSR EE shithole. Austria is a fucking paradise compared to this, finally I have a chance for a good future! You can not imagine the hopelessness living in Hungary, when no matter what you do how hard you work there is no moving forward.

I never said Orban any worse than any politician, do not put words in my mouth. He just gives lip service, and you people eat that shit mouthful.
I never blamed Orban for how poor Hungary is, but I blame him not doing jack shit to change it. Who the fuck cares that he do not support globalism and blablabla when you barely have enough money to eat, sleep and just survive?

The only reason Orban is in power because all other parties are fucking jokes. I have only voted 1 time and give up, there is no-one to vote for.
I lost hope for Hungary, it will never get any better. Let that country disappear in history. That place was best when the Austrians were in charge. Hungarians are incapable of self governance, they hate each other and do everything to fuck other Hungarians over. The only way to escape that toxic environment is to move away as soon as you can!

Post: #50

(12-19-2015 09:17 AM)Glaucon Wrote:  

(12-19-2015 08:46 AM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  You think the economic issues are handled any better in America or Western Europe? Face the truth bro: Hungary has been much, much poorer than the West for the better part of a century now, if not millennia. Thus, it is asinine to blame the living standard discrepancy between Hungary and the West on Orban. I hope you see this?

As for recent economic trends, it's far from clear whether Hungary is doing better or worse than its Western counterparts. In the USA we've reached a historical low on the labor force participation rate even as the national debt has nearly doubled since 2008 and interest rates were at absolute zero. Is Hungary at a historical low in employment and a historical high in national debt? I'd wager not. How much worse would the situation be in the USA if we hadn't spent the last 8 years massively abusing our reserve currency status? I'll leave that to your imagination.

So I'm not convinced Orban is any worse at economics than his Western counterparts, while being a fucking saint in comparison on things that matter for the long term survival of his nation, namely immigration and culture. I'd count your lucky stars if I were you.

You can have my lucky star, thankfully I do not live there anymore.
Its funny people try to tell Hungarians who left as soon as they could that how good Hungary is. Are you crazy? Maybe I know better after living there for 29 years. You people in the west have no idea what it is like to live in a former USSR EE shithole. Austria is a fucking paradise compared to this, finally I have a chance for a good future! You can not imagine the hopelessness living in Hungary, when no matter what you do how hard you work there is no moving forward.

I never said Orban any worse than any politician, do not put words in my mouth. He just gives lip service, and you people eat that shit mouthful.
I never blamed Orban for how poor Hungary is, but I blame him not doing jack shit to change it. Who the fuck cares that he do not support globalism and blablabla when you barely have enough money to eat, sleep and just survive?

The only reason Orban is in power because all other parties are fucking jokes. I have only voted 1 time and give up, there is no-one to vote for.
I lost hope for Hungary, it will never get any better. Let that country disappear in history. That place was best when the Austrians were in charge. Hungarians are incapable of self governance, they hate each other and do everything to fuck other Hungarians over. The only way to escape that toxic environment is to move away as soon as you can!

It seems like you have a very poor sense of history. What did you expect? That Hungary would go from communist basket case to first world status in the space of a few years? Yeah Austria is richer, no shit Sherlock. It wasn't ruled by the Soviets for nearly the entire second half of the 20th century. What's your point? As far as disappearing in history, it ain't gonna be Hungary who disappears first, and you can thank Orban in large part for that. Hopefully you won't be fleeing back like a hypocrite in a few years when the chickens come home to roost wherever you're currently at.

And by the way, what do you think Orban could realistically do, in the face of the worst global recession in decades, with half of Western Europe on the brink of bankruptcy? What kind of economic magic sauce is Orban stubbornly refusing to apply that has your panties all in a knot? A rising tide floats all ships, and we're not on a rising tide right now in case you haven't noticed. I don't expect politicians to create miracles, I just expect them to not actively work toward destroying the nations they rule, and Orban passes that test with flying colors. I'm very skeptical you can say the same thing about the place you currently reside in.