Post: #51

Quote:While almost all women will find a decent man, not all will and I take pleasure knowing they will suffer future pain.

Judging by the precipitous drop in marriage rates across the board, I'd say no, not all women are getting married. This current generation of men are too poor and uneducated for many women to want them. Singlehood among women will only continue to rise. I'd say it will take at least one more generation before the pendulum starts to swing back towards sanity. But for now, all this go girlism is here to stay. Women, like children, have very poor connections in their brains when it comes to cause and effect. Sooner or later though, they'll realized that finding and holding down a man is much harder than they imagined.

Post: #52

(04-23-2016 01:10 PM)therealpoder Wrote:  I was just thinking about this issue yesterday. To be honest I was, and still am to some degree, resentful that women can get dates with whomever from 13 to 30 and often reject decent guys, on many occasions cruelly, and then when they turn 30 they expect some one of the decent guys they rejected to be waiting for them.

And then they have to nerve to say you are immature if you actually want to date around now that you finally are getting female attention after being ignored and rejected for around 15 years.

Worse yet, society sees this as normal. Decent guys cannot complain about this lest they be accused of being some nice guy loser that are really sexist and feel entitled to a girlfriend. All for following the advice that society tells us. They tell you to get a good job, be nice and you'll get a decent woman. Yet, if you follow that advice, you'll be ignored until your 30s and get the chance to marry some used up slut.

I thought about this issue recently because just 2 days ago a girl I am dating told me about her 26 year old co-worker who she is friendly with. She said that this girl was able to go on tinder and go on dates with 3 different guys: a lawyer, a psychiatrist and some other high paid professional that I can't think of right now. And she rejected all of them for trivial reasons. Hell, when I was 26, I would have been happy to go on dates with okay looking girls that were nice to me.

All of it left me feeling jaded and bitter. I have a girlfriend now so much of those feelings faded. But I still feel coldly towards a lot of women. And I do take solace in the fact that, while the 90-95% of women will still get married, that 5-10% will end up childless spinster of 40 year old divorcees that will beg for the attention of a decent man.

While almost all women will find a decent man, not all will and I take pleasure knowing they will suffer future pain.

I understand where you are coming from. Well firstly, women have always had more options and benefits than men. Having an uterus gives them automatically, higher value than men because they have something which all men are biologically programmed to throw resource at to obtain and lets face it, every community needs to prolong their existence by having more children.

However the otherside of the coin, is that this automatic disadvantage which men have, leads them to finding other ways to increase their value. To translate this into layman terms, a man won't have access to sex for simply by being a man, where as a woman has this privilege. He needs to develop on skills, learn the guitar, get ripped, make lots of money. Also It comes to a point in a man's life when he starts to see the pursuit of notches and women in general as akin to a dog chasing after it's own tail. So eventually intrinsic value becomes the way to gain any real fulfilment. Once man becomes understanding of the nature of women he has no choice but to find intrinsic value. This may come from religion, hobbies or career.


I think the point when it does start to become unfair, is how a lot of men are indoctrinated with blue pill ideas. They are being raised to sentimentalise women, where as the women are being raised to view men with disrespect and haughtiness. In a city like London, I am still impressed by how brutal the shit tests a lot of these women put guy through are, and on top of that the competition. But really, life has never been easy being a man, its just the way it is. Best thing men can do, is to use these experiences to cultivate a character which is resilient and can just transcend this pettiness. Avoiding clubs and internet dating is certainly a way forward.

Post: #53

Yeah, I do agree that the difficulty that a lot of guys have dating forces them to develop in other ways that help them be successful, assuming they don't give up first.

I am fitter, no fear in approaching, have better conversation skills and have more money in order to become attractive to women. I probably would not have done what I've done if I were more comfortable.

Also, there are limits to women's hypergamy:

1. Biological clock: Women only have til 35 to have children. They know it and if they wait around until 29, 30 to find a husband, they are at the mercy of men.

2. Women mistake the attention they get at bars and online for the guys that will actually commit.

3. While most women realize that they decline in fertility, they don't realize that men find them less attractive as well. This is due to shows like sex and the city, promoting Cougars and thirsty men online. At the same time men become more attractive.

4. Too many women are pursuing the strategy of waiting until they are 30 to get married. It works if only a small percentage of women do it. Not so much if a lot of women do it.

5. Due to lack of female attention or due to too much female attention during , a lot of men give up or become complacent, don't develop themselves so there is less attractive men than there would be.

The penalties to women don't manifest until later on but when they do, it's too late for them to correct it.

But this will all correct itself in time. If only 10% of women fail to marry and have children it could cause the pendulum to swing the other way to men's advantage. If current trends continue, that could happen in 10 years, maybe less.

Until then, it is best to be optimistic and find ways to improve your live life. Such as improving yourself or even moving abroad if need be.

Post: #54

(12-15-2015 02:48 PM)Tengen Wrote:  Phoenix's post could just as easily have been written by me if I had the courage.

Wow. Like many others I've also been frequently in this situation. What impresses me, is just the raw emotion in the descriptions here. Visceral hatred. Doesn't even seem strong enough. I think this derives from a few points. Maslow lists sex under physiological on his hierarchy. Level one. If you delay someone from them long enough, they will reply violently and forcibly. If everyone was around banging like Bonobos, or even massive legal non-shameful prostitution so they had an outlet, or like in times of old you had a pretty reasonable chance of settling down with a more or less equal girl at 20, Then OK. But keep the lion in the cage too long and you end up with Elliott Rogers.

A link posted in another thread about going years without sex had a link about a 12 yr incel which itself is worth a read. It had a comment at the bottom that struck me.

https://whoism3.wordpress.com/2012/11/17...med-incel/

Quote:...the lack of it during the height of your sexual awakening, coupled with the feminine free for all leaves a sort of Occupy Wallstreet sense of injustice. The 1% (or in this case 20% of men) enjoy the bounty of 80% of the women who feast aplenty on the trough of sluttery. It’s especially hard when they think they’re playing by the rules and find out the game was rigged.

Luckily regarding uni in a financial game-like way at 17 I saw through the bull shit and was fine (lived at home, lots of scholarships, STEM degree), some people honestly just don't know this stuff, and they just take advice from trusted authority figures who are as ignorant as them since the game changed so much. Now they have 150k in student debt and no better job prospects than at 18.

That was however me with women. No natural skills or early successes, so I sought out advice from the media/popular culture in mid 90s. Literally searching "how to get a gf" at like 14 on infoseek. Naturally nothing changed. Years later, with a good place, job, lots of money, I was still seeing people poorer, uglier, less successful in every way getting hotter women, and it just caused a huge sense of injustice to erupt which eventually led here. But better late than never.

To me I can understand how both these cases can make you feel like you were a victim of a great big giant long-con. So I think there is a measure of anger at ones self for not seeing the truth sooner.

Post: #55

(04-27-2016 07:56 AM)Seadog Wrote:  

(12-15-2015 02:48 PM)Tengen Wrote:  Phoenix's post could just as easily have been written by me if I had the courage.

Wow. Like many others I've also been frequently in this situation. What impresses me, is just the raw emotion in the descriptions here. Visceral hatred. Doesn't even seem strong enough. I think this derives from a few points. Maslow lists sex under physiological on his hierarchy. Level one. If you delay someone from them long enough, they will reply violently and forcibly. If everyone was around banging like Bonobos, or even massive legal non-shameful prostitution so they had an outlet, or like in times of old you had a pretty reasonable chance of settling down with a more or less equal girl at 20, Then OK. But keep the lion in the cage too long and you end up with Elliott Rogers.

A link posted in another thread about going years without sex had a link about a 12 yr incel which itself is worth a read. It had a comment at the bottom that struck me.

https://whoism3.wordpress.com/2012/11/17...med-incel/

Quote:...the lack of it during the height of your sexual awakening, coupled with the feminine free for all leaves a sort of Occupy Wallstreet sense of injustice. The 1% (or in this case 20% of men) enjoy the bounty of 80% of the women who feast aplenty on the trough of sluttery. It’s especially hard when they think they’re playing by the rules and find out the game was rigged.

Luckily regarding uni in a financial game-like way at 17 I saw through the bull shit and was fine (lived at home, lots of scholarships, STEM degree), some people honestly just don't know this stuff, and they just take advice from trusted authority figures who are as ignorant as them since the game changed so much. Now they have 150k in student debt and no better job prospects than at 18.

That was however me with women. No natural skills or early successes, so I sought out advice from the media/popular culture in mid 90s. Literally searching "how to get a gf" at like 14 on infoseek. Naturally nothing changed. Years later, with a good place, job, lots of money, I was still seeing people poorer, uglier, less successful in every way getting hotter women, and it just caused a huge sense of injustice to erupt which eventually led here. But better late than never.

To me I can understand how both these cases can make you feel like you were a victim of a great big giant long-con. So I think there is a measure of anger at ones self for not seeing the truth sooner.

The part I added bold is a great point in itself. The decisions made early on in every area can prevent that anger later.

Post: #56

I've been the victim of this hatred.

It comes in the toilets when you go for a piss. It comes with a knee in the leg while ordering a drink at the bar.

I saw the envy. Eating them. Whole and alive.

What they didn't know was I had had a pretty rough time up to that point, and that my moment in the sun was just that - a moment in the sun - it would all be gone the next day or week or month. Never to return. An oasis in the desert of my life. And still they hated me beyond belief and reason.

For what? For having a beautiful girl on my arm? They never had to spend a night with the demanding bitch. They never had to justify and rationalize the cognitive dissonance of being cucked real time. They thought it was all wine and roses and sweetness and light.

I've come to understand it now. I would take precautions going out with a beautiful woman if I ever got the chance again.

When you have a stunner on your arm, two things happen. Other women want to steal you to prove their worth and fuck you for the notch. Other men want to beat you to a pulp so badly your own mother does not recognize you. One of those things is easier to deal with than the other.

I don't want to come across all billy big balls high roller. This has only ever happened a few times to me. The best experiences of my life were tainted by other men in public spaces, through sheer blind jealousy. Being in a band as well and getting more attention than you deserve, also makes other men hate you, irrationally, while other women want to fuck you, irrationally.

I understand it. I've had the pang a few times myself. But after being on the receiving end of it, I quickly adjusted my attitude.

Any form of envy/hatred/bitterness will diminish the person feeling it.

Look at it like this - the person who is the object of your ire might be suffering worse than you can know. They may have family members in dire straits. They might not have had a girlfriend for 5 years. They might not have long to live, as healthy as they look.

Also, don't take it personally. I scored a real beauty out one night, only to be dropped like a hot brick, coz the girl told me 'she was going off with the dj'. He was uglier than me, not a very good dj either, it was obvious this was his only hook. So what. Good luck fella. That game won't last long. Make the most of it.

I fell in love with this girl within five minutes. She had a look I loved, a body I desired, and it was the ultimate kick in the nuts after her getting my hopes up after an hour or two. She was playing with me. That could have made me feel even worse again. I've seen this shit a thousand times and it always depresses. But you pick yourself up.

Don't be that asshole that follows another man into the toilets to throat him up against the cubicles just because of your bit of petty angst. No one has died. You aren't facing death. Yes you will get the better of him, because he probably is not expecting it, but what victory?

If I could only meet the assholes that did this to me, sometimes making a point of humiliating me publicly, and then show them what I went through later with these 'stunning' women. How it destroyed portions of my life. How it destroyed my relationship with family members. The sheer fucking carnage that these bitches laid in their wake of devastation. I'm pretty sure they would think again.

Learn to control your emotions Gentlemen. It is what distinguishes us from the savages and the beasts.


I tend to lean the other way these days, and it riles me when I see a handsome young chap at the heels of some floating fucking ham planet. That, makes me angry.


Next time you get that pang when you are out, make an effort to befriend the object of your hatred. Talk to him. First off, he might be someone you can relate to, and that will diffuse your feelings somewhat. He might just be an air head asshole. That will also diffuse your feelings somewhat. Ask non-probing, but pertinent questions about their relationship. You may be able to glean very quickly that the shit is about to hit the fan in their relationship, probably before even he knows it.

Not everything is rosey in the garden.

Having said all that, thank you to all those that have been so honest about this 'thing'. You have my utmost respect for that. Not an easy thing to admit to, on either side of this 'argument'.

Post: #57

I haven’t posted in a while, but this topic really hit me hard reading through the pages. Thanks LoZ and everyone else who contributed their difficult experiences and stories. I still occasionally feel the bitterness and pain of resentment described in more ways than one. It’s something I’ve struggled with in different forms throughout my life, and still do. I hope I can come to terms.

As a teenager coming of age the beta programming of “be good/nice, get good grades->go to college->get good job->get loving wife and family was not necessarily drilled into me but absorbed from society at large and observations. I was a bit awkward and introverted and very early on (middle school) noticed that women tended to gravitate their affections towards a small % of boys and eventually men, yet all boys and men were expected to lay down for women’s desires and emotional outbursts.

I was anxious about sex as someone who had no guidance from my beta father and no real alpha influences to show me how to interact with women. I went to a college surrounded by beautiful women with no clue how to seduce them, yet still being “cool” enough in social circles to go to lots of parties and events. I managed to not lose my virginity until my senior year at 22, while watching all the young women around me slutting it up with “hot guys” and smashing any concept of these women being wholesome and good future wife material. My college notch count was a horrifically regrettable 2. I try not to think about it.

In the four year period between losing my virginity and roughly age 26 I got into game and Roosh’s material (I had brushed over some concepts and read “No More Mr. Nice Guy” late in college) and started to develop myself into someone who felt much more confident about attracting women. I started hitting my stride and racking up some notches while finally feeling like I was making a difference and finding success with women. I did some travelling and lived abroad. I was infected by and developed multiple skin conditions within a year of graduating college in 2008, including molluscum contagiosum for a year on my groin (contagious pimple-like bumps) and recurring staph boils on different parts of my body. It made me very neurotic about my health, stopped my newly found sex life, and killed my confidence. It took me nearly a year to clear the combination of the molluscum and staph that would recur every 6-8 weeks. I moved back to the USA and started to rebuild my shattered confidence and continued to rack up a few notches (~10 by end of 2011). I hoped I could have a normal, continuous sex life free of health issues for a decent period of time and worked towards this goal.

I hit a 6 month dry spell near end of 2011/2012 and broke out in herpes on my ballsack and base of my cock. I don’t know who gave it to me as no one I had slept with before the 6 month dry spell had admitted to it or had symptoms. Who knows how long I had it while it laid dormant. It destroyed me for quite some time. After all, I had always used condoms and never hooked up with women I considered “dirty.” I sunk into serious depression, anger, bitterness, all while swallowing some of the most difficult Red Pill material. I essentially had a meltdown and quit my job of 2+ years (first degree-related job on a career track) to do more travelling in a true “fuck it” nihilistic state of mind. I hoped a long sojourn would somehow help me find wisdom.

In the meantime I struggled with the psychological ramifications of this disease and how I would handle it. I digested everything I could find about it to try to decide how I would proceed forward. I read horrible stories of people who suffered with constant outbreaks and serious psychological issues as a result. No matter what I just could not accept the path of non-disclosure. Whether this makes me too sensitive or “beta,” I just couldn’t stomach putting someone else through the psychological pain I had felt (my physical symptoms were not that bad) just to get my nut off. I did fuck one French girl in my travels drunkenly without telling her and felt terrible about it (although it was a pretty slutty bang so she probably either had it already or was destined for it). Eventually I figured out a sort of suboptimal solution. I use a pair of latex rubber fetish “boxer shorts” with a sort of cocksheath that I cut the tip off of so I could use it in conjunction with a condom. That way even though I looked weird as fuck with it on I could still have safe sex.

Still even with this “solution,” I ultimately can never have unprotected sex with a woman without risking transmitting it to her. I have probably had rawdog sex 10 times in my life with the same girl. I have felt serious bitterness that this disease severely limits my options, people judge me for it, women reject me for it, and essentially it dictates who I can have sex with and love.

But beyond herpes I feel resentment that I have never truly had a “normal” sex life. I feel like I never had time or opportunity to “sow my oats” and squandered that golden opportunity that was my college years. I was a virgin until 22, shortly after that finding some mild success I kept developing skin problems that ruined my sex life, and here I am. I’m now in much better shape mentally and physically, but it really does still affect me. After all, I’m playing the game on “hard mode.” I can have all of my shit together and be the coolest high status man but there’s always that catch that ruins my ability to spontaneously rip the clothes off a girl on the first date and fuck her (raw or not), because I have to explain to her that I could possibly give her something that could ruin her life (in her perception).

I occasionally get bitter about seeing people hooking up as normal in today’s society because I know there is a chance they have herpes and don’t know (because like the majority of those with it they don’t show symptoms-and STD tests don’t test for it). I get bitter because I am judged for being dirty or careless when I almost always wore condoms and got it outside the condom coverage area, are part of the tiny % of those who have it and actually know they have it/show symptoms, and have a 13 notch count. I get bitter because I have too much of a conscience to just go satisfying my base desires and not giving a fuck banging girls without telling them. I get bitter because in the rare times I explain to close friends the difficulties I’m dealing with, they can’t really relate and suggest I go use some shitty STD leper colony website where the pickings are fat single moms 30+. Ultimately I get bitter because my disease makes it that much more difficult to obtain sex even from your average slutty girl, and especially from the more wholesome girls I may actually want to pursue a real relationship with. I have to limit my drinking because if I am out at a bar or party and get hammered, the anger and bitterness seeps into my being when I see men and women flirting/kissing/going home with each other all carefree. I even get bitter when I read this forum about some of you fucking dozens of girls per year, raw dog and never have the sort of problems I have had. I get bitter about the chunks of shit luck and how I wasted so much opportunity and good health in my younger years. I get bitter because I have never had what you could call a healthy normal sex life, and maybe never will.

Now in my 30s I am in therapy, I meditate for better mental health, and I am trying to be the best man I can be as this forum prescribes. But, like some of the recent articles on ROK suggest, the whole reason men strive for success/money/status is for getting women either for sex or marriage/family. When my options for both are so choked out by my STD status it has seriously affected my ambition, motivation/discipline - I am working on that. But I go from serious sexual dry spell to dry spell and my friends and family probably secretly wonder what the fuck is wrong with me or if I even like women. (I’ve only had one actual relationship of 6 months). I just can't get in a groove or hit my stride. Only way to go is up from here I suppose… and I am continuing to work on being the best I can be. What else can I do?