Post: #1

I was reading an Op-Ed in the New York Times today regarding letting children play (American) football and I found it thought-provoking. Link below:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/07/opinio....html?_r=0

The author basically argues that children under 18 cannot consent to the damage being done to their brain and should not be allowed to play organized full-tackle football until they reach 18. The author cites the fact that brains that are not fully developed (the brain fully develops between 18 and 25 for most people) are especially susceptible to repeated trauma to the head, and that the long-term health problems that arise from participation in youth football are extremely dangerous.

So my question is: would you let your son play tackle football? If no, why, if yes, under what conditions?

I'll start. I wouldn't let my son play football until his junior year of high school. I would let him know this his freshman year and say he must be big and strong (from lifting weights) in order to play. Before he reached that age I would take reasonable action to dissuade him from playing football, mostly by encouraging other sports. If by the time he was a junior, and he still wanted to play, and he met the 'big and strong' criteria I set for him, I would let him.

Post: #2

I played college football.

Saying that, no I would not let my kid play. Too much research has been done and is now available that was not available when I played.

If I had a choice, I would push wrestling.

Post: #3

An unequivocal "Yes" from me.

On one hand, more studies will show that the game is harmful to brain development. On the other hand, assuming you're actively involved in raising your child, if he's taking that much of a beating in football where you think he's going to have brain issues later in life, you can take him out of playing the sport.

Furthermore, I think they have it reversed, around high school time you should talk to your kid and access whether it's worth it to continue on with the sport if 1. he doesn't need to scholarship money for college 2. has no shot of playing the game professionally. That's may not be the easiest conversation to have, but I'd take it over not letting a child play the sport because:

I can't speak to rugby (though I suspect it's similar), but there's no sport that lets boys just go out and hit, teaches them to be accountable to their team, and makes them put in work the way football does. A goodyouth program is going to teach the fundamentals and form that will go a long way towards mitigating any injuries. The rewards of not having your kid turn out to be a pussy are much higher than any injury risk.

Post: #4

I don't really care if my kids plays football. They should be physically active, any by physically active I consider sports, crew, gymnastics, cheerleading, and weightlifting to be appropriate venues for such.

Fencing, band, and anything more brainy are not appropriate substitutes.

Post: #5

Why not olympic weight lifting and wrestling? Both sports push discipline, self-improvement and a healthy avenue for a young man to direct his competitive spirit. Hell, even substitute wrestling with jiu-jitsu.

Post: #6

First, some context. I was a runner in high school, both track and cross-country. The football coach tried to convince me to try out, after watching me run around the track while they practiced. I didn't because it would've conflicted with cross country season. As an adult I regret that, I think a team sport would've been a good experience for me.

My son is 12 so this isn't hypothetical. I would let him play. I would have a conversation with him about the risks as well, and give him some tips on how he can mitigate the risks.

My parenting philosophy has always been that kids (especially teens) are capable of more than the expectations we place on them, especially these days. I believe my son is capable of making an informed choice to play football.

Post: #7

If my son really wanted to play football, I'd try to steer him clear of being a linebacker/other position where you get hit on every play. I would try to guide him towards being a kicker or quarter back.

Post: #8

Rugby is a little safer than football. No pads or helmets means easier tackles. High tackles are also illegal.

Post: #9

(12-07-2015 03:44 PM)MiscBrah Wrote:  I would try to guide him towards being a kicker or quarter back.

What's the point of playing high school football if you're just gonna be a kicker? Might as well not play at all and pick another sport.

Plus, most teams I played on (and faced) didn't have a kicker-only position; coaches would just pick the kid with the biggest leg (be it a WR or QB) to take care of it.

Post: #10

(12-07-2015 01:56 PM)LINUX Wrote:  I played college football.

Saying that, no I would not let my kid play. Too much research has been done and is now available that was not available when I played.

If I had a choice, I would push wrestling.

Kinda off topic but how much pussy did you get?

Had a football player roommate for a couple weeks before i had to switch rooms due to excessive moaning. Never seen any anything like it. Bringing in 2-3 different hot girls a week and banging them all night while i was studying for my Chemistry final and struggling to bring home a 6. Some of the girls were even good friends and had to know they were banging the same guy.

Any cool stories?

PS: Still can't get used to calling the sport "Football". Feels like an insult to the beautiful game i grew up with. Big up Arsenal F.C!!

Post: #11

(12-07-2015 04:14 PM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  

(12-07-2015 01:56 PM)LINUX Wrote:  I played college football.

Saying that, no I would not let my kid play. Too much research has been done and is now available that was not available when I played.

If I had a choice, I would push wrestling.

Kinda off topic but how much pussy did you get?

With all due respect, what do you think? From the guy's posts, he makes me look like one of those "average" six lifetime notch guys or something.

And yeah, I see some arguments on the way, but I think football player is one of the worst possible career choices. When you look at guys like Mayweather and Hopkins being able to box professional for decades, it may even be worse than boxing. Baseball and golf may be the best sports to get into. Basketball is good, but unless you are well over six feet, you may very well be screwed from the get go.

Post: #12

(12-07-2015 04:10 PM)Jura Wrote:  

(12-07-2015 03:44 PM)MiscBrah Wrote:  I would try to guide him towards being a kicker or quarter back.

What's the point of playing high school football if you're just gonna be a kicker? Might as well not play at all and pick another sport.

There are many reasons to just be a kicker. You are still on the football team and get to enjoy the benefits that entails. You sometimes get to be the hero and make the game winning field goal. And even though its unlikely, if the kid showed promise towards becoming a really good kicker it could lead to college scholarships. Besides, being a professional kicker for an NFL team has always seemed to be a fantastic gig. It pays exceptionally well and you have significant less work/risk of injury than pretty much any other position all the while getting more name recognition than your average lineman.

Post: #13

(12-07-2015 04:59 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  [quote='Anabasis to Desta' pid='1165624' dateline='1449522881']
[quote='LINUX' pid='1165519' dateline='1449514605']

And yeah, I see some arguments on the way, but I think football player is one of the worst possible career choices. When you look at guys like Mayweather and Hopkins being able to box professional for decades, it may even be worse than boxing. Baseball and golf may be the best sports to get into. Basketball is good, but unless you are well over six feet, you may very well be screwed from the get go.

While golfers probably don't get the top-level pussy that other athletes do (except Tiger obviously), you can't beat the lifestyle. They travel to world-class resorts, basically avoid bad weather at all costs, and the ones that are damn good get paid millions, with the bulk coming in endorsements. Baseball is prestigious but a massive grind, where you don't really get any weeks off in the regular season, and the off-season is so short. I think NFL players are respected the most, probably get the best pussy, but aren't paid as much as you would think and it kills their physical health long-term. Golf is an easy game physically, where some of the pro's are still at the top of their game in their 40's (currently Jim Furyk is an example). Don't have the cred that other athletes have, but still get to play the fame game and have an awesome lifestyle. Would recommend pro golf to any young man if they have the talent.

But back on topic, would let my son play football but would remind him of all the guys that suffered brutal injuries, all for nothing in many cases. Recommend QB or WR, they seem to have decent longevity.

Post: #14

I didn't play football in high school. I was not athletically inclined, and was somewhat socially inept. I did date some attractive girls, and had a circle of reasonably popular friends. However, I look back now and see how much I would have gained from playing football.

First of all, it's the teamwork. This is also present in basketball, but football is much more complex, and I think it is better in this area. Secondly, I wish I had learned to psych myself into an intensely competitive state of energy. Again, while this would also be present in basketball, I think football is better. Third, I wish I had gotten into far better physical condition as a young man. I think basketball is focus on cardio fitness, but football makes a better emphasis on weight lifting in addition to cardio. Fourth (or maybe it should be first), I would have had greater success with women than I did, and in the long run, that would have been much better for me than the way things turned out.

I recognize the risk of injury, but I think as someone else posted, you monitor the situation, and switch positions, or pull the kid if it looks like there are too many injuries or too much head trauma.

As for a career, I'd be satisfied for my son to experience high school football and learn the lessons I mentioned. I wouldn't really expect him to go on to a college scholarship or a professional career.

Post: #15

Like linux said, and based on what I have experienced I would push wrestling.

Post: #16

Ice hockey.

Post: #17

Football and rugby teach teamwork like nothing else. Fat kids, skinny kids, slow kids, the works, can all play, especially when they're little.

Post: #18

I would let them play football. However I wouldn't let it take over their lives. I wouldn't want them to be on the path to play for a D1 school.

Post: #19

Quote:Football and rugby teach teamwork like nothing else. Fat kids, skinny kids, slow kids, the works, can all play, especially when they're little.

You could say the same for soccer. Wrestling also being a team sport by score based on personal achievement. I would rather have my son be driven to succeed through improving himself vs relying on slow fat kids to cover his back. Not discrediting any of them though, sports are important for fostering competitive spirit.

Post: #20

I wouldn't. Too much research showing the detrimental, long term and serious damage the brain sustains in the area of football.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/articl...n-disease/

"Researchers with the Department of Veterans Affairs and Boston University have now identified the degenerative disease known as chronic traumatic encephalopathy, or CTE, in 96 percent of NFL players that they’ve examined and in 79 percent of all football players. The disease is widely believed to stem from repetitive trauma to the head, and can lead to conditions such as memory loss, depression and dementia."

Here is the research paper by the Nigerian doctor who first made the correlation between football and brain damage.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15987548

I think there will be a greater divergence in terms of socio-economic background in football, with even more reduced numbers of players from middle or upper middle class background.

I don't really care what sort of athletics my kid gets into...hockey, soccer, golf. Anything that instills discipline. For that matter, I would be thrilled if they learned to play an instrument.

Post: #21

I had this discussion w/some friends recently who have kids. If it was my son, I would not let him play tackle football until he was in high school. I would have him play flag football until then to develop the knowledge of the game and skills required - catching, throwing, etc. Once he hit HS I would let him play, but if he got 2 concussions I would stop it.

I played football in high school, and still play on competitive flag teams 20 years later w/some of the same friends. While there are certainly risks associated w/football, concussions really aren't that common at the HS level, and the benefit of playing (friends, team sports, social status, etc) outweighs the risks.

Post: #22

Yes, but I don't exactly like the direction football is going these days... I miss what it used to be.

Post: #23

(12-07-2015 02:30 PM)BetaNoMore Wrote:  Why not olympic weight lifting and wrestling? Both sports push discipline, self-improvement and a healthy avenue for a young man to direct his competitive spirit. Hell, even substitute wrestling with jiu-jitsu.

The problem is that these aren't team sports. While wrestling could be considered a team sport based on scoring, it's not the same as being on the field/ice/court together.

Using me as an example, I played football, hockey, and baseball as a kid. I had asthma so I hated soccer. My parents gave me the opportunity to try out every sport. I started hating baseball in middle school and switched to lacrosse as my spring sport in 8th grade. Hockey was my main sport since age 5 and I was a goalie, so I missed out on big hits. I played attack throughout high school as a grinder and spend half my time in the box. As bruised and beat up as I got in lacrosse, I loved every second of it. Being a goalie in hockey made me miss the camaraderie of playing on a scoring line. I made my goal to win every ground ball battle and get it to my teammates who could make huge plays. You can't self-build those kinds of roles in golf, tennis, or wrestling.

I quit football after freshman year because I wasn't built for any position and had no specific skills in regards to football. I grew up in a football family so my dad was a little bummed to see me pursue hockey and lacrosse. I played AAA hockey in the fall, varsity in the winter, and lacrosse in the spring. My brother was an all conference full back in football but played a 3rd line grinder on our hockey team. He also picked up lacrosse and played d-pole midfield.

What I'm trying to say is that these sports are the highlights of my childhood. And I wouldn't change it for anything in the world. I still play at a high level and have met countless friends to this day from playing contact sports. If I ever have a son, his 3rd birthday presents will include hockey skates and a football. he deserves a chance at all the joy and triumphs I experienced.

Post: #24

(12-07-2015 10:57 PM)wi30 Wrote:  Being a goalie in hockey made me miss the camaraderie of playing on a scoring line. I made my goal to win every ground ball battle and get it to my teammates who could make huge plays. You can't self-build those kinds of roles in golf, tennis, or wrestling.

Going to tell you that that's bullshit. While it looks different the team sport mindset for wrestling comes from the hours upon hours of you taking techniques and beating them into your and your teammates muscle memory. You're teammates get to know you at an unconscious level you may not even recognize in yourself, habits and weaknesses. While you may not be able to fight someone for a ball and give it off to a teammate you are fighting with your entire body and mind in order to secure your points for your team.

Feel as if I am derailing this, but had to comment on that.

Post: #25

Apologies Cascade. I've never wrestled and don't know a thing about the sport. I was simply trying to compare team sports vs. individual sports.