Post: #1

I didn't see any threads about congruence through the search function.

It's something I've heard discussed in game a fair bit.

What are others' experiences with the importance of "congruence" with game, especially for the intermediate and advanced guys ?

Cheers!

Post: #2

Well, lack of congruence, in anything, not just game, is a sign that one is still learning and developing and isn't quite there yet.

It's as simple as that really.

Post: #3

You practice what you preach.

You walk the talk that you talk.

You are who she wants you to be, given that you have projected yourself in the correct manner to attract girl xyz.

You do shit because it is part of your life, not because you are trying to impress her (coming from a weak point).

You look like you belong there, everything is second nature.

Naturals are naturals because they are congruent and this draws girls into their own frame.

She is comfortable with believing who you are with minimal reprecussions into her life- she can introduce you to her friends etc.

There are stories that all guys, not just intermediate or advanced have. This is why you get 'types' (he/she is not my type). The more cool shit and generally more life experience you have, the scope of 'normalcy' you can bring to interactions and give off this vibe.

There was a post as to why not be lazy as shit and enjoy life, in one of the other forums. Simply put, you will attract those kind of girls.

The girl has to picture herself with you and for her to do that, she has to believe you are who you think you are.

Something like those cult leaders who used to bang countless women, they believed their own delusion and were congruent with it.

Post: #4

Going from incongruence to congruence is what separates and intermediate player from an advanced player. A girl sees the intermediate trying to act alpha, but she suspends disbelief and fucks him anyway. However many girls won't be so generous.

Post: #5

It's a poor attempt at making pick up into a science.

And the concept really appeals to men who generally like ideas to be simple and already appeal to them.

Be a man
Follow through
Say what you mean, mean what you say

Same dudes will then tell you that it's important to be unpredictable.

Which then is can i be congruently unpredictable?
Can i be dependably mysterious?

It leads to guys who get text messages and torture themselves on how soon they should reply, and that often leads to some other game induced existential crisis.

As elegant as the idea is, i find it to be more harmful than helpful.

Reliably getting strange women into bed is counter intuitive. If game was intuitive, there would be little need for the forum.

WIA

Post: #6

CBW & WIA offer some simple wisdom that has me reflecting. Given my novice level, it reminds me of how I'll needlessly sweat certain little processes that I imagine become naturally sub-conscious as one advances to new levels of awareness.

Post: #7

My only issue involving congruence is doing things that aren't exactly in my character for the sake of meeting/banging chicks. Some might call it breaking out of your comfort zone or opening yourself up to new experiences, but there are two sides to every coin.

I'm normally an introvert and not much of an out-and-about night life kind of guy unless its for specific purpose. This is why my main avenue of gaming is online. If/when I go out and about its very deliberate for a specific event, errand, or to go hiking/camping/fishing/etc. The stuff I like to do in my free time is not typically stuff I can or would invite a first-date to.

In that regard, meeting a girl for drinks isn't really something I like doing. I don't like drinking or bars particularly. Everytime I plan a first date with a girl who really wants to meet somewhere public I have to figure out something I wouldn't mind doing when really I'd rather just make dinner relax and listen to some music.

Post: #8

Wish i was on my laptop, so much good material here to explore.

WIA

Post: #9

Muscle memory / "The zone"

Find what works for you (in ALL aspects) in life and do that.

Once you do that, whilst also embracing the pursuit of new "muscles" / competencies without conscious thought....

Congruence

Post: #10

Congruence in pickup world means alignment of your personality and behavior.

They teach that it's better to own whatever you feel than to fake something to come across better to others. So when you feel like shit you don't put on a happy face to look better than you actually feel.

Naturals are naturals because they always own it. They don't cater to others' feelings they do what they want to do they don't care. You might read how important it is to feel good yourself and project that energy onto the girl blablabla and then some natural says he's tired and feels like shit etc and girls talk to him. Why? Because he's real and people can sense it. That's about it.

Another thing would owning your energy level at all times. There's this high energy/low energy thing and some like to argue which is better. To be congruent would mean to own it whatever you are at the moment. So for example when you want to talk to a girl after you danced and you feel buzzed it's better to just go in with that energy just as you are instead of trying to look all chill and low key. That will look fake thus incongruent.

I don't like that concept cause it draws attention to your state and that over the top self awareness can make you way too self conscious.

Post: #11

^ Where does that leave the old manosphere trope of how "just be yourself" is bullshit and always keep an air of mystery about you so girls find you intriguing, challenging, and hard to pin down?

I think we may be mixing congruence with transparency.

Post: #12

(12-03-2015 03:00 PM)Mess O. Wrote:  CBW & WIA offer some simple wisdom that has me reflecting. Given my novice level, it reminds me of how I'll needlessly sweat certain little processes that I imagine become naturally sub-conscious as one advances to new levels of awareness.

If you're just starting out, I wouldn't pay TOO much attention to the high level discussion.

The main thing is getting out there, and getting used to interacting with women. That's why the first 100 approaches are so important.

The more densely you pack those approaches in, the more you'll learn that these 105 lb human beings can't really do much to hurt you, and they almost always say the same shit to you no matter what you say to them.

You see, walk over, get her attention, deliver your opener
- she opens immediately
- she politely tries to avoid the conversation after a few seconds

That's pretty much it. If you're coming at a chick with basic human respect, it's not likely that she's going to a throw a drink in your face, get the whole bar laughing at you, and then have her shaven head mma boyfriend come out of nowhere to kick your ass, only to be arrested by the police for bleeding on the sidewalk.

It's after you've got that first taste of approaching under your belt, (with all the next set of problems that ensues) that you'll ponder the nature of "congruence".

As a coping mechanism, I find that congruence is great.
I saw a chick.
I tried to open her.
I let her know that I found her attractive by opening her.
She made her assessment.

You're honest with yourself and honest with the prospect.

But like I was saying in the "9" thread, if a person doesn't know you, they can't ever be sure if your sincere. She can't really tell if you're lying. If this is not "who you really are", that you're "putting on an act' (and when they know you, most partners lie their asses off).

So what being congruent really means in practice - is not "acting with intention" or some other nonsense - it's not talking too fast, it's not stammering or stuttering, it's not nervous fidgeting.

It's more of a body language thing than some grand approach to pick up.

This is a learned skill, because talking to strangers is generally stressful. Your heart rate goes up, you may even start to sweat a bit, adrenaline is on standby.

As animals, we sense those sort of things about each other.

And since you're taking on a new skill, this is essentially an "act" until you get used to the what's going on with your body.

To newbs and critics, the guy that's finally trying to talk to a strange girl is "putting on an act".

"Why don't you just be you?" is how the hater logic goes.

Try being the real you in an interview.

"So why do you want this job"
the real you - "Bitch, I'm not tryna be homeless."
the interview you - "I feel that my skills can help the company grow."

To a small extent, the attempt to pick up a girl is a job interview.

After you learn game, or by learning game, ideally you want to "switch chairs"...But that's beyond the scope of this post.

So TL DR

Don't get sidetracked with the philosophical debate.

WIA

Post: #13

(12-03-2015 06:57 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  ^ Where does that leave the old manosphere trope of how "just be yourself" is bullshit and always keep an air of mystery about you so girls find you intriguing, challenging, and hard to pin down?

I think we may be mixing congruence with transparency.

The real General Stalin is at home in his boxers drinking beer, eating cold pizza, and playing video games. That surly unkept dude is not getting girls to come over to give him a quick blowie. Not by presenting that image.

However, There's a General Stalin that is calm, cool, collected.
He's funny. He has boundaries. He's interesting. He has stories that no one else can tell.

That side of GS doesn't come out the way that GS wants them to.

So through game, through experience with women, through understanding their common reactions to him, their misconceptions, the typical questions, et cetera.

He can present the real GS to these chicks in a format that they like and enjoy. He speaks slowly, with a rich warm tone. He delivers his stories well. He pauses. He knows when to be silent. He catches chick losing their attention, but also when they're entirely in the palm of his hand. He gently or sharply reprimands when necessary. He has boundaries and they become aware of it.

This is not "just being yourself", but it is entirely you. There's no fraud.

Most guys are just a piece of raw beef.

The guy with game is a perfectly cooked steak, seared nicely on the outside for a crusty exterior and tender, red, and juicy on the inside. Served with a nice side of creamed spinach.

A dude who has good game, chicks just want more and more of it. It doesn't matter what she looks like, ugly or model pretty. His personality draws her in. I don't think guys really get that. It's like the whole PUA washed over them.

She likes what she hears, that's the point of game.

Now if you've got skeletons in your closet, you don't bring them up 5 minutes into your chat. Let her uncover the darkness and depth later on.

WIA

Post: #14

(12-03-2015 03:43 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  My only issue involving congruence is doing things that aren't exactly in my character for the sake of meeting/banging chicks. Some might call it breaking out of your comfort zone or opening yourself up to new experiences, but there are two sides to every coin.

I'm normally an introvert and not much of an out-and-about night life kind of guy unless its for specific purpose. This is why my main avenue of gaming is online. If/when I go out and about its very deliberate for a specific event, errand, or to go hiking/camping/fishing/etc. The stuff I like to do in my free time is not typically stuff I can or would invite a first-date to.

In that regard, meeting a girl for drinks isn't really something I like doing. I don't like drinking or bars particularly. Everytime I plan a first date with a girl who really wants to meet somewhere public I have to figure out something I wouldn't mind doing when really I'd rather just make dinner relax and listen to some music.

You have to compromise some to get chicks.

Even "homebodies" want you to take them out. Indeed, the introverted girl secretly wants to be the extroverted one that has fun. And the extrovert, basically wants more and more of it. You rarely see a woman that prefers to be by herself. Most women prefer to not be bothered, but they often seek out others.

Men on the other hand, we like solitude for what it is, and can do well in it for our entire lives. It's why there are so many lonely old men. Indeed, it's not really until you get to the end of life that you start to feel that loneliness.

In terms of game though, it's never a good idea to go to a club or a loud bar early on. A quiet/upscale bar is a good move. (#team_appetizer)

Taking a cute chick to a packed bar or a loud night club is just asking for distraction.

WIA

Post: #15

Many thanks, WIA, in taking some considerable time in bolstering an interesting thread, as well as offering to me specifically some much-needed advice. And congrats on 5,300 posts.

Post: #16

It's an NLP term adapted from geometry to psychology. There's lots of NLP material online (edit: and several threads about it on the forum).

Post: #17

(12-03-2015 08:11 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(12-03-2015 03:43 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  My only issue involving congruence is doing things that aren't exactly in my character for the sake of meeting/banging chicks. Some might call it breaking out of your comfort zone or opening yourself up to new experiences, but there are two sides to every coin.

I'm normally an introvert and not much of an out-and-about night life kind of guy unless its for specific purpose. This is why my main avenue of gaming is online. If/when I go out and about its very deliberate for a specific event, errand, or to go hiking/camping/fishing/etc. The stuff I like to do in my free time is not typically stuff I can or would invite a first-date to.

In that regard, meeting a girl for drinks isn't really something I like doing. I don't like drinking or bars particularly. Everytime I plan a first date with a girl who really wants to meet somewhere public I have to figure out something I wouldn't mind doing when really I'd rather just make dinner relax and listen to some music.

You have to compromise some to get chicks.

Even "homebodies" want you to take them out. Indeed, the introverted girl secretly wants to be the extroverted one that has fun. And the extrovert, basically wants more and more of it. You rarely see a woman that prefers to be by herself. Most women prefer to not be bothered, but they often seek out others.

Men on the other hand, we like solitude for what it is, and can do well in it for our entire lives. It's why there are so many lonely old men. Indeed, it's not really until you get to the end of life that you start to feel that loneliness.

In terms of game though, it's never a good idea to go to a club or a loud bar early on. A quiet/upscale bar is a good move. (#team_appetizer)

Taking a cute chick to a packed bar or a loud night club is just asking for distraction.

WIA

Agreed. Typically if I bring a date to a bar it's a cherry picked venue that I have vetted and enjoy going to. Aside from that, weather permitting, I'll usually meet a girl somewhere we can walk and talk or do some kind of activity that involves little focus but provides an experience and/or scenery.

Compromise is the key word. While a lot of us here, keyboard alphas especially, will talk about never going out of your way for a girl or doing something you wouldn't do alone - that's not really the way to get a girl attracted to you unless she is damaged goods who particularly likes selfish assholes. A girl wants to see that you are willing to be accommodating for her. Something I've been working on as of late as I have seen myself becoming a bit too harsh, cold, and unwavering with women.