Post: #1

What's the difference? Can someone give examples of situations where one can come across as persistent or desperate? I read a lot about guy giving up too early with girls. Then there's a lot of this "he's so desperate" stuff that I see.

So what's the formula for being persistent but not desperate?

Post: #2

Status/how she views you.

In to you, could fuck you, you are in demand: persistent

Not into you, not interested etc: desperate

Keep in mind, after a while if you don't proceed or turn out to be what she wants (fail shit tests etc) you turn from persistent to desperate.

No formula, be a cool guy and use your time/resources wisely to 'chase' girls who are into you and think you will be persistent, not desperate etc etc

Post: #3

^Good answer. I think most women even the ones into require a bit of persistence.

For me the difference is timewise. Persistence is a short time i.e a couple of weeks of begging. Desperation is months or years of chasing the same skirt.

Post: #4

Good post from Noir. It's like being creepy. Handsome/rich guys are never creepy, they are bold. Ugly guys with sub-average game or no money = always creepy by default.

The other side is your attitude. If you are very persistent with a girl, but are also hitting on other girls and keeping yourself occupied while she isn't there, it's persistent and it's good.

Frankly don't care too much about this. Girls can say/think whatever the fuck they want about you. If you get the bang with your dignity in tact that's a win.

Also, persistent = no begging. Say she refused your offer to go out, there's a big difference between:

-Please come with me I would be so happy this abc is a great place I'll buy you the best champagne

vs

-Sure you don't wanna come? You'd be missing out on some awesome fun

Post: #5

To answer this question you should really look at the dictionary definitions of both words:

Persistent

Quote:persisting, especially in spite of opposition, obstacles, discouragement, etc.; persevering

Desperate

Quote:reckless or dangerous because of despair, hopelessness, or urgency

How this translates to gaming women is roughly the same as the dictionary definition.

If you're continuing to game a girl without a plan and merely "hoping" that you can get her, then you're coming at it from not only the wrong perspective but you're basically destined to fail.

Persistence with women is absolutely necessary as there are many types of opposition, obstacles, and discouragement. Shit tests, cock-blockers, LMR, bitchiness, etc...

Generally, though, women would see persistence as a guy continuing to game her despite her initially shutting him down. This can definitely succeed, although it is not a high percentage move.

The girl I'm dating currently had a boyfriend when I met her, so I immediately backed off when I learned this, but that didn't stop me from flirting with her (albeit less aggressively) and that didn't stop me from dating other girls. I continued to show that I hadn't lost interest, but at the same time I was not waiting for her, and I continued enjoying my multiple options. When I found out she was single, I made a move. This is persistence.

Now, if I'd have continued to try to spend time with her with no expectation of escalation, doing nice things for her just because I want to make her happy, and sacrificing myself for her just because I hope to have a chance with her, that'd make me desperate.

Post: #6

Persistent: You have many options but you happen to like her.

Desperate: You have no options, and don't realize she isn't gonna changer her mind about you.

Post: #7

It completely depends on how that girl views you. She is into you she enjoys your persistence and thinks you are consistent and confident. She doesn't like you the same actions repel her. Classic rationalization.

We do the same thing. When our favorite sport team desperately tries to score and comes across try-hard on the field we love their determination heart and drive to win. When a team we hate does the same we roll our eyes and laugh how lame and needy they are.

Post: #8

"Desperate" is when you try to take shots that aren't there. "Persistent" is when you hang tight and stay in the game until things line up.

Desperate guys give in to their emotions when they are losing. Persistent guys keep their emotions in check, and resist acting out of jealousy, impatience, or fear.

When things are not going your way, don't quit or seek approval. Just stay in the game until her emotions swing around in your favor.

Post: #9

Persistent = you have the abundance mentality.
Desperate = you don't have the abundance mentality.

Post: #10

You're getting a lot of great advice.

You don't really need my 2 cents, but part of getting good at game is
1) understanding the social cues and norms
2) violating them on purpose.

When you start out
- see a nice looking young lady
- you approach
- you get her attention and try to open the conversation.

What often happens is
- she ignores you
- she stays silent
- she tries to say something to make you go away.

This is where the self doubt creeps in.

Am I breaking a social rule here?
Am I being persistent?
Or am I being desperate?

I've said this before, and I'll keep saying it.

You don't know what she's thinking.
You can interpret her words and body language positively or negatively.

So even if you feel like you're breaking some rule, recognize that rule and choose to break it.

More often than not, a new guy interprets how a girl reacts initially negatively. So he cuts the interaction short.

And then the negative self-talk starts.

I'm not good at this
I'm not attractive
Lemme go play Fallout 4..

In my opinion, the initial brush off is not actually a rejection.
I've dated too many chicks that didn't want to talk to me when I first talked to them.

I think a lot of these chicks are on autopilot, and will reject 99% of people that talk to them. A lot of these girls will flake on their friends and family - they are so in their own head space/bubble. It's a protective bubble, a defense mechanism that you have to unlock.

It's hard not to take these brush off's personally.

So to get out of this loop, I suggest that even when you feel that you might be intruding, interrupting, or that she doesn't like you INSTANTLY....give it another minute, two more lines, before you eject.

- looks like you're having the most fun in here
- I bet I can predict what you do for a living in 3 questions
- who lies more? did you see the fight outside? My favorite meal of the day is salad....

It's neither persistence nor desperation, but purpose.

I'm a decent talker, and I can get a chat going with most people. But that really doesn't mean that they're open. (there's some theory behind that, but that's for a post on openers, not this one)

I know I have to stay in the convo before things really start to happen.

It's not dogged persistence, like I was Tom Hanks in Road to Perdition.
It's not desperation. I don't need more notches.

It's purpose.

I have a purpose.

So do you.

Get your mind from using these two hurtful opposites, and think that what you're doing is positive. That might sound hoky, but if you come from a good base, that connecting with this girl is a good thing, that conversation you have with that chick could easily develop into a full on relationship, marriage, and then kids.

As one might say in my community, "Don't let her block her blessings".

WIA

Post: #11

Since WIA posted something more elaborate I have to compete


OP, if you seek some good universal rule or kind of a guide then here's mine to you. You can take initiative 3-4 times. So whether you want to approach or move her a round or take her clothes off you have around 3-4 attempts to do it. After that you go into desperate/needy/pushy mode. Remember: Those attempts have to come across normal casual and rather polite. If you cross the line by saying something very stupid early on she will close up and no more attempts will help you.

So let's take an approach in daytime as an example...

You say something to the girl and answers "huh?" all confused. That is your 1st attempt. Thing is, first sentence is often not enough to break the ice with a stranger especially when they don't expect you to talk to them.

You know that and it doesn't bother you so you try one more time "oh hello am I interrupting something important? If I do just let me know, I didn't know". 2nd attempt goes better cause she's already snapped out of her by your 1st attempt so she actually hears what you say. And most importantly she sees you're normal guy who with some empathy. So she goes "um no it's fine..". Boom! Now she can finally listen to what you want to tell her.

Your 3rd attempt is "why it took you so loong?" (thanks again WIA) or "how's your day going? let's make valentine's day today". Whatever you want. Now the real interaction/communication can start. She can still be skeptic about you.

So you try for the one last time, 4th time "it's ok, you can talk to me, don't worry, I don't have a swine flu" to loosen up the vibe. Let's say she opens up and talks to you. Cool, you try, you stand up for yourself, don't back down under pressure, you're good. If she's not open to it after your 4 normal attempts and wants to leave you let her go. This is that moment after which you go into desperate mode.

It's similar with any other action you take. You want to move her physically? Try once, take different angle and try again later, take different angle and try again later, etc, until 3-4 times. Same with texting or trying to kiss [try few times here and there], trying to take clothes off, etc.

In general girls enjoy that chase as long as they feel good in the meantime. Besides, almost all of them are very super convinced that even if they want the guy they can't just say OK right away cause that makes them easy.

Post: #12

This should give you the idea:

Post: #13

(11-19-2015 12:03 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Lemme go play Fallout 4..

Second this

Remember to boost your Charisma to 10 and get the lady killer perk