Post: #1

After celebrating my two year anniversary by coming home to homemade pizza and a cold beer, I thought I'd reflect on the past two years of being in an exclusive live in relationship.

I should note I'm twenty four, less than a year out of college, living with my twenty two year old girlfriend who is finishing up her last semester. I've also been following Roosh since age nineteen.

This is essentially my first 'real' girlfriend. My longest 'ex' prior to her lasted less than three months. I spent a lot of time in my college years rotating two to three girls but none of them really made the cut looks or personality wise. I earned my stripes but I guarantee most of you have much more experience with women than me. I gained experience but some of you guys have been racking up numbers beyond belief. Keep up the good work.

With all this said, I'd like to jump into what it's like living with a girlfriend of two years.

First off, I do not and did not actively 'game' her. Even in the beginning of the relationship, I never had to think of adding a 'neg' to the conversation. Everything flowed smoothly from the beginning. She wasn't a party chick so I turned the first date into a hike with my dog. She's probably the longest it took from introduction to bang but she told me that she thought we hooked up too soon. Low n count and didn't lose her virginity until college.

What I mean by never actively "gaming" her is a few things. First off, I reached the point where my natural personality meshed with my gaming personality. I hit the fully congruent stage before meeting her. I never thought this would happen when I was sitting in my bedroom reading Bang in 2009, but sure enough, it did. Regardless of your personal potential, you will hit a point when who you are and who you want to be collide and become a fully congruent man. I say what's on my mind without thinking how it's being interpreted. When I was younger, so many thoughts were going through my head. I can't believe I acted normal through it all. Now, I pretty much do and say whatever I want with conviction and people buy into it. It's crazy what a few years can do to your psyche.

Another aspect of the relationship is that our personalities simply click. I've had plenty of girls in the past where I was actively thinking of when to say 'x' and do 'y'. I was interacting on a pick up level instead of simply being myself. While the advice of 'being yourself' is usually terrible, after gaining the basics it is exactly what you need to do. I had matured into the man I wanted to be because of this forum and Roosh's works. I picked my girlfriend up by talking to her at a friend's house, getting her number, texting her to go to parties (she didn't go out much), switched it up and took her on a hike, and a week later got her into bed. I even sent her a "last night was fun" text to protect from a false rape claim. She laughed when I told her about it because a non-damaged girl doesn't have those thoughts.

We also have the same sense of humor which matters more than you would think. When it's 90 degrees out and the A/C is broken, humor is really all you have left. She's been a ride or die sidekick the last 2 years. I've been bouncing through a couple jobs trying to catch my stride after college and she's taken the support role like a boss. I've been stuck working 65 hours a week and she keeps up the house, takes care of my dog like it's her own child, and makes sure I'm happy when I'm home. I really can't complain about anything.

I don't want to sound all oneitis and NAWALT, but if you find a girl who can accomplish these things with a smile on her face, you really have no reason to leave. I've had opportunities to cheat but didn't because I have a good thing going. I've accepted that not all men are meant to be players (per Lizard of Oz's thread). Will I stay with her? Probably, I see no reason not to at this point. I used the game to level up and I happen to like the level I'm at right now. But don't mistake this as a weakness, I'm also ready to bounce at the drop of a hat if that time happens to come.

In summary, I have to state that for me, being in a great relationship trumps being single. I'll never miss the loud music and dumb broads plaguing downtown. Maslow's hierarchy allows me to spend much more time on historical and philosophical works since my basic needs are being met. I rarely check into the game sub-forum, my time is spent in Lifestyle, Deep Forum, and Everything Else. I can't thank Roosh enough for putting me in this position. Funny how clicking on one webpage can change the course of your life for the better.

Post: #2

That's great for you man.

I believe there's not a single thing wrong with having a woman in your life that compliments your lifestyle and backs you.

I've got a LTR coming up 2 years in a few months - however my situation is different as in I actively and gaming/banging other girls.

But my views are the same as yours, she's a ride or die, she backs me, she compliments my life.


You're right some guys aren't built to players, some aren't built for LTR's, some are built for both.

It's all about what makes YOU happy in the end and how you can benefit from it.



This forum has multitude of weapons to take on women, life, game, etc


Choose your weapons wisely and use them to the best of your knowledge.

Post: #3

Sounds like you might have found that 5% of women in America that are legit. My advice as someone who has been in a similar position at a similar age in the past (i.e. live in unicorn GF):

1. Never sacrifice your professional goals for her. Losing any kind of professional momentum in your 20s is going to hurt you later. Some minor compromise is fine but anything more and you will regret it.

Right now, you are living together. When she graduates and decides where to live for her first post-college job, will you have the same opportunities wherever she goes? Is she willing to follow you where your best opportunities are if not? I would be probing for that now. If you get the feeling she is going to put her career above yours, I’d consider ejecting. Since you know game, you know how to establish being the lead in an LTR but some chicks will not compromise no matter what level of game you have. Again, be ready to punch out if she isn’t willing to follow your lead and do what is best for your career.

2. What she values at 22 is not going to be the same in the next few months/years. She will no longer be in the fantasy land of being a college student and will be dealing with real life problems very soon.

She will also have professional established men hitting on her hard soon, her looks will start to fade, friends will get married, and your provider credentials will start to matter. This “she supports me like a boss” shit will not be happening in the future. Chicks have a tendency to become more mercenary as they age; especially from 23 up until about 40 or til they have locked someone down. Be aware of this. Your game MUST evolve to deal with this. Don’t think what works today will fly a year from now.

Anyhow, that’s all I got for the time being.

Bottom line: YOUR career ALWAYS comes first and NEVER forget that the game never ends; it MUST evolve with the circumstances.

Post: #4

Black Knight is spot on, especially about when she starts her "career". All the temptation from the guys working in her office will be hard for her to resist. I've seen it so many times. What's also bad is her relation to the masculine will now be through her career, instead of her man.

If you've enjoyed the past couple years, think about what the dynamic has been. You being the earner and she the homemaker. My advice would be to keep that dynamic, otherwise I'm doubtful it will be a forever after fairy-tale ending.

Take a read through the 40+ thread and you'll see stories like yours and how it all ended up.

Post: #5

Thanks for the insightful post Black Knight. Great things to be aware of.

However, she is majoring in community health. She already works with a special needs firm in the area and her internship is with the city. We plan on staying in the area and she has no career ambitions outside of her current job and what I do. She enjoys her job and even mentioned she would love to stay at home and bear children if that's the route I choose.

My goal is buy my first duplex by the end of next year and start building a real estate portfolio. I have high ambitions and she supports them. I've been building up cash so I can be a full time landlord by age 30.

If it works out, my only regret is not traveling east for an extended period of time. But if my professional goals work out, I should be able to travel whenever I see fit.

If it doesn't work out, I can take the experience and move on. I don't really see a loss in this situation.


Edit: Onto, she doesn't have drastic career ambitions. A stable job and keeping up the house is plenty to keep her satisfied at this point. When I first started dating her, a buddy told me, "holy shit, she seems like a mom taking care of your dog like that". I can't complain. I pay for utilities while she keeps up the house. I doubt the dynamic will ever change. As I mentioned before, I'm not expecting a fairy tale ending, though at this point I'm also not opposed to it. If it works out great, if not I'll gain some experience.

Post: #6

^ Form an LLC (with only you) and use that to buy your property if you can.

Post: #7

I plan to. However, I was also looking at using her to use a second FHA loan after I use mine on the first duplex. My goal is to appreciate around 20K on the first property and refinance to use that to buy a small apartment complex. Use her to buy another property for next to nothing down and build from there. Not saying that I'm planning on getting married, but if I did, I would use a property lawyer with the utmost scrutiny.

Post: #8

(10-24-2015 05:46 PM)wi30 Wrote:  I plan to. However, I was also looking at using her to use a second FHA loan after I use mine on the first duplex. My goal is to appreciate around 20K on the first property and refinance to use that to buy a small apartment complex. Use her to buy another property for next to nothing down and build from there. Not saying that I'm planning on getting married, but if I did, I would use a property lawyer with the utmost scrutiny.

It's a good plan so long as you both are forever after. If she's not career-minded, not being exposed to a lot of guys at work and is happy being a housewife when the time comes, it sounds like better situation.

I did some quick research and maybe an LLC is not a great idea when you are first starting out. An FHA/Conventional where you only need to put 3.5-5% down is better.

Read this excerpt I just found on a site. It sounds interesting, and I"m going to look into it for myself.

Quote:If you plan on buying through an LLC you either have to buy in cash or get a commercial loan.

However, you’re probably looking to buy a SFH or a small multi family, so I think your best bet is to buy it in you or your partner’s name and then put it into a “trust” where you and your partner are the beneficiaries. I would suggest you do your first deal as JV partnership, not an LLC. You’ll get better financing, tax shelter, and better cash flow. LLCs are expensive and usually not worth the effort or money unless you’re holding more than 500K in equity.

If you are concerned about lawsuits – keep the property leveraged (w/debt), take out an umbrella policy, and hold the title in a “trust”.

Post: #9

(10-24-2015 05:33 PM)wi30 Wrote:  Thanks for the insightful post Black Knight. Great things to be aware of.

However, she is majoring in community health. She already works with a special needs firm in the area and her internship is with the city. We plan on staying in the area and she has no career ambitions outside of her current job and what I do. She enjoys her job and even mentioned she would love to stay at home and bear children if that's the route I choose.

My goal is buy my first duplex by the end of next year and start building a real estate portfolio. I have high ambitions and she supports them. I've been building up cash so I can be a full time landlord by age 30.

If it works out, my only regret is not traveling east for an extended period of time. But if my professional goals work out, I should be able to travel whenever I see fit.

If it doesn't work out, I can take the experience and move on. I don't really see a loss in this situation.

Her career ambitions could change and they could take precedent at anytime. It might take some full-time working post-college for it to happen however. She might develop a passion for moving up for a variety of reasons (have a bigger impact, more money, more power, prestige, etc). Most people don't want to stay at the bottom level forever.

Community health/social work type chicks from my experience usually only stay as low level types (like she is claiming she wants) because they don't have a masters degree yet to get the more better paying management level jobs. They usually have a ton of student loan debt and realize the only way to move up (and get more money) is to get a masters. If she goes for the masters and has a ton of student loan debt, I'd consider it a warning. I'm speaking very broadly but that's been my observation. I don't pretend to know or understand the nuances of your particular situation. Her moving up could be a good thing as long as you don't get married or end up paying for her shit in anyway.

From the sounds of it, you are on the up and up and might be doing well financially in the future. She is content with a dead-end career for now because she might see you as a stable provider in the future. Understand also that she is patient now with you not having made it yet because she is invested, young, isn't dealing with real life problems (like massive student loan debt payments, for example) and isn't surrounded by older men who ALREADY have made it. It really doesn't matter much what she claims she wants now; the reality is very likely going to change what she wants in the near future. You must anticipate the change and be ready to cut her off if it gets out of hand.

Another barometer test to consider using is her attitude towards marriage. I shit you not: the woman I referenced in my original post was very anti-marriage in the beginning. It was only when she got a bit older, friends started getting married, and her looks started going downhill that a flipped switch and it was all "Where is my ring?" non fucking stop. Things began to come undone when I told her marriage wasn't on the table and that I'm not putting myself at financial risk.

I HIGHLY advise to not get married in the US under any circumstances; especially as a future business owner (putting property into an LLC is not a bullet proof way to protect yourself by the way; it's just a layer of protection). If you share my viewpoint towards marriage and mention that to her, pay VERY close attention to her reaction. You will find out how ride or die she truly is then; especially when she has real bills to pay.

Shot ya a PM btw.

Post: #10

Onto, I might have to get my rich sister/brother-in-law to co-sign as I've been reading up on lending requirements. They require a minimum of two years income for FHA. But I'm confident in the market I'm living in right now. I could buy a duplex at 100K with $3500 down. Rent out the other unit for around $700. The mortgage plus other expenses wouldn't be over $400 per month. That leaves $300 profit per month. We pay around $700 per month on our current lease. I'll take a positive four hundred each month instead of dropping seven bones between us.

Luckily my landlord is a real estate agent and is helping me buy a place.

Funny how quickly this thread turned to real estate.

Post: #11

(10-24-2015 05:46 PM)wi30 Wrote:  I plan to. However, I was also looking at using her to use a second FHA loan after I use mine on the first duplex. My goal is to appreciate around 20K on the first property and refinance to use that to buy a small apartment complex. Use her to buy another property for next to nothing down and build from there. Not saying that I'm planning on getting married, but if I did, I would use a property lawyer with the utmost scrutiny.

Sweet fuckin jesus! DO NOT DO THIS!

The moment you start using anything of hers financially to acquire properties, she can claim rights on your business or other assets and any gains that come thereafter. You get married and she can claim in a divorce that the business is marital property.

If you are going to do the real estate thing (or any business for that matter), EVERYTHING is completely separate. She has ZERO connection and ZERO part of it in any way.

Read this: http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/220124

Post: #12

Black Knight, tons of knowledge dropped in your post. Great job.

She has no interest in a master's. I personally view those who attempt masters with discontent. Something is driving them to get it and it's clearly not the job market. My girlfriend has no debt, her father paid for her education. She took out a loan with her father so she could buy a $3000 car. She's a great asset on the up and up and if that starts to change, I have no problem pushing her back to the bottom.

Post: #13

(10-24-2015 06:17 PM)wi30 Wrote:  Onto, I might have to get my rich sister/brother-in-law to co-sign as I've been reading up on lending requirements. They require a minimum of two years income for FHA. But I'm confident in the market I'm living in right now. I could buy a duplex at 100K with $3500 down. Rent out the other unit for around $700. The mortgage plus other expenses wouldn't be over $400 per month. That leaves $300 profit per month. We pay around $700 per month on our current lease. I'll take a positive four hundred each month instead of dropping seven bones between us.

Luckily my landlord is a real estate agent and is helping me buy a place.

Funny how quickly this thread turned to real estate.

I love Real Estate and have owned a large 2-family property for almost 15 years now. Mortgage is paid and it clears $2500/month after all maintenance/taxes/insurance/water/landscaping. I would like to buy another one and I wished I started earlier like you are now.

Your scenario sounds like a decent investment. Know your market. If you are renting to college kids/recent grads who are housemates, then more bedrooms means more money. More bathrooms are better. Parking is important, laundry is important. Think like a tenant when you are considering a purchase, and of course location.

Make sure the Electric and Gas are separated. Take note of when you'll need to repair the roof, mechanicals, water/sewer line, exterior siding.

Figure about $300-400/month maintenance to be on the safe side. $125/month for insurance. $60/month for landscaping. Water/sewer bill?

If you go the FHA route, buy the biggest property you can. As you know, you can only have one of those low down-payment babies. Make it a really great one.

Post: #14

Excellent post. I am going to write a long response, but I just want to recognize that this is the kind of thing that contributes to the "manosphere."

Post: #15

Onto, +1. Love your ideas. I've been dreaming of real estate since I was 15 years old. The problem is that I'm still working a job that pays me an extra ten bucks an hour in tips and banks hate it. Hence, why I'm going to try to use my sister to co-sign. I can't get a conventional loan until I get a new job. I've been looking into the mortgage department at local banks but I want to do it, not underwrite it. My career is basically in flux until I can be a full time landlord. Hell, at least I know what I want.

Anyone who says my gf is going to take her share and bail has never been in realistic LTR. It's easy to say I told you so when you're single. Get real, she has no knowledge or interest in real estate. She likes the safety net of me providing for her through real estate. Huge difference.

Post: #16

She sounds like a nice girl, but... two things:

1. She could change her mind in the future, to the detriment of your relationship with her.
2. I'm with Black Knight, DON'T mix your assets / finances with hers, especially your business. Keep everything separate. Get a prenup and don't skimp on it if you consider marrying her.

Post: #17

(10-24-2015 06:54 PM)wi30 Wrote:  Onto, +1. Love your ideas. I've been dreaming of real estate since I was 15 years old. The problem is that I'm still working a job that pays me an extra ten bucks an hour in tips and banks hate it. Hence, why I'm going to try to use my sister to co-sign. I can't get a conventional loan until I get a new job. I've been looking into the mortgage department at local banks but I want to do it, not underwrite it. My career is basically in flux until I can be a full time landlord. Hell, at least I know what I want.

Hey, thanks man. Also talk to a few "mortgage brokers", they have access to all the banks and credit unions across the country. Ask for a good-faith estimate on closing costs so you can compare between the brokers and see which is stuffing the least amount of junk fees.

I think conventional is 5% down and I believe you can have a family member "gift" you a large sum of money. Things are loosing up, I heard they are even doing no-doc loans again for a higher interest rate. You can always re-finance to a lower one down the road. Again, this where mortgage brokers are helpful.

Most important thing is buying the right property. It takes work, and often some luck. Here's my story.

After searching for 6 months and getting out-bid in a very hot market, I noticed a little For-Sale-by-Owner ad in the wrong section of the newspaper.

Fortunately I got to the seller first and already had a blank real-estate contract that I grabbed from a previous agent. I used that blank contract to fill out with the seller the moment I saw it, and I got him to sign it.

I didn't haggle $1 on his asking price, because I knew it was underpriced. That knowledge came from searching for 6 months and being outbid countless times. I probably got it for 20% below market value, and the seller lamented later that he was getting higher offers from others. He needed to sell in a hurry though.

Years later I moved to another city and wanted to buy a property. Instead of using a realtor I made up a flyer which explained how I was looking for a property specifically in their neighborhood and if they want to sell and save on the broker fee than call. I canvased the target neighborhoods extensively, stuffing my flyer in each door.

I got 3 solid opportunities to buy nice single family homes at a significant discount. What's more, I had no competition and first dibs on prime houses. I didn't buy though because my job-contract ended, but that hard canvassing paid off.

Nowadays with the internet you can usually get a property owner's mailing address online and send a letter. Do a mass-mailing list and target neighborhoods. This is what realtors do.

Using a realtor is ok and you can learn a lot from the good ones, but I think you'll get access to the special properties and prices by doing your own legwork. If you find something like this, don't feel bad about cutting the realtor out of the deal. That's the biz. Give him a gift-certificate if you want.

Post: #18

(10-24-2015 07:35 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  She sounds like a nice girl, but... two things:

1. She could change her mind in the future, to the detriment of your relationship with her.
2. I'm with Black Knight, DON'T mix your assets / finances with hers, especially your business. Keep everything separate. Get a prenup and don't skimp on it if you consider marrying her.

This is good advice. Also some states do not include pre-marital property in the divorce. If you live in one of these states, buy as many properties as possible before getting married.

Post: #19

Surprised there are actually legit american women for ltrs.
Good to see a break from all the slut banging and gaming threads out there. Its not 100% doom and gloom at least. Good job.

Post: #20

Believe it or not, I was like you at one time. I'm going to share something about myself because I've had a few glasses of whiskey and I need to catch a plane in a few hours to some town between 'nowhere and goodbye.'

I was married for three or four years. I had a great marriage, best friends, workout partners, never fought. etc.. Then one day I got really sick and I needed someone to take care of me and she split.

This past year I put up about 100 notches. The other night I was laying in bed with this girl from the club and I was wishing she would just disappear. I started asking myself why I do this.. Why do I live this lifestyle. And it hit me, I have nothing to prove, I'm good looking, I'm educated, I have plenty of money...but I do it because I don't believe love last forever. So every opportunity I have that I can feel love, I take it.

You don't want to end up like that man. Keep living this dream if it makes you happy because most of us on this side of the pond are broken. And, as hopeful and optimistic as I can be, there is a good chance you'll become me in 10 years, giving this advice to another young buck coming up, but I wish it wasn't so.

Post: #21

^ Thanks Debbie

Post: #22

LINUX,

Do you really want to waste your life on living out a cliche?

Post: #23

(10-24-2015 10:18 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  LINUX,

Do you really want to waste your life on living out a cliche?

That's assuming you know what the purpose of life is, many answers out there that people have: leave the world a better place than you found it, avoid pain, seek pleasure, finding meaning in your life, finding love, reproducing. It's all esoteric. If you look around, there's always people who tell others, especially on the internet, they have the answers to things. I've got no answers.

And a cliche would be believing or telling someone they are going to grow old and happy with one woman for the rest of their life.

Post: #24

(10-24-2015 10:31 PM)LINUX Wrote:  

(10-24-2015 10:18 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  LINUX,

Do you really want to waste your life on living out a cliche?

That's assuming you know what the purpose of life is, many answers out there that people have: leave the world a better place than you found it, avoid pain, seek pleasure, finding meaning in your life, finding love, reproducing. It's all esoteric. If you look around, there's always people who tell others, especially on the internet, they have the answers to things. I've got no answers.

And a cliche would be believing or telling someone they are going to grow old and happy with one woman for the rest of their life.

Yeah and? My senses are starting to tingle.

Post: #25

No, the cliche is to let your feelings about women drive everything you do in life, one way or another.

A woman betrayed you and now you're drowning yourself in booze and doing things you don't even enjoy -- like you say, being in bed with a girl and wishing she would disappear. Your whole life is dictated by psychology. That's the cliche.

I don't care if you fuck a hundred bitches or grow old with one. Don't make your feelings about women the thing that your life revolves around. It's not worth it.

"Love" is not all there is, whether its presence or absence. But a man can become so wrapped up in his own psychology -- whatever it is -- that nothing else is real to him.

Let go of all that psychology, and let life come to you. Don't miss the whole world just because some bitch showed herself to be a bitch. Women are what they are, one deals with them one way or another. They're necessary but they're not worth losing the world for.