Post: #1

I've heard it on here numerous times, what is a guy to do? Women will only get more entitled as the cathedral marches on its progressive anthem. Do we call them out on flaking, call out and insult, or just go about our business and next them?

I'm trying to get this message across to as many guys as I can. I'm guilty of flaking on girls too, usually ones I've considered not on par with me, but I've been decent enough to tell quite a few I'm not interested.

We know they're playing games and every cunt has a spare cock somewhere hitting her up while you're talking to her, but if we're going to draw the line, how do we draw the line with impact?

I've used lines like all the way from asshole-like "look are you single, or not? I've got enough friends to last me a lifetime so save me the trouble of waiting for nothing and just tell me" to even the simple insults like "right" or "gay" which gets the hamster going.

Some of you master gurus on here tell me whats the best way to leave an impact on a woman who flaked on you so that she's feels insecure about her own flakiness. In the looks department I've got everything so I know they're not flaking on me for that, its just typical hamster behavior.

Post: #2

Flake on them first.

Post: #3

There is no line to draw.

You do what you do. Focus on the good leads; chuck the rest with efficiency.

You aren’t single handily going to change some chicks behavior. You are competing against overwhelming market forces (ample supply of thirsty betas, social media access, online dating, etc) that can’t be changed on your own. Even trying to force red pill values on other men at the local level (ex: don’t white-knight, dump disrespectful sluts, maintain frame with your interactions, etc) is a waste of time more often than not because most men aren’t ready to be unplugged. Lead by example, drop subtle red pill wisdom here and there, and intervene when the timing is right (guy friend of yours gets divorced raped/falsely accused, for instance) is the best you can do in most cases. Fortunately, a lot of men are sensing something is fucked up in the western dating market and are seeking answers. Be available to provide that guidance when the opportunity presents itself.

Women aren’t going to change until more and more men change first.

Post: #4

Yes, it would be great to punish girls whenever they don't do what you want them to..

But I don't think there's any way to teach a girl a lesson about her flakiness in a way that will resonate while not making you seem like a whiny psychopath.

(10-06-2015 10:03 PM)Stack Thornehawk Wrote:  I've used lines like all the way from asshole-like "look are you single, or not? I've got enough friends to last me a lifetime so save me the trouble of waiting for nothing and just tell me"

Ross Jeffries does something similar.. I definitely would never say that haha. It sounds like something a try-hard fat girl would say. No offense, of course.

Travesty said to "flake on them first". I doubt he was serious. But it does give me an idea:

Instead of getting the number (which will most often result in a flake if you aren't good-looking or extremely charming/entertaining), I suggest going for the same-day-lay.

Fuck her math(phone#). Push for the instadate, then get her back to your place and do the Horizontal Hustle.

If she doesn't comply, to hell with her, honestly.

Some girls will give mad excuses and offer you their phone number anyway. If you feel she's being sincere and want to go that route, I suggest having some business cards made (or you can make them at home with cardstock paper).

That way it's up to her. If she contacts you without you even having her number, I doubt you'll get flaked on.

Chuuch

P.S. The business card is a great platform to pre-sell and DHV

Post: #5

The solution is to either go back in time and get rid of the internet and cell phones, or be the guy she's flaking on another for. You can only control your reaction, there's nothing to do to change it from happening. That ship has sailed in our society.

Post: #6

What if you expose their flakiness indirectly before they flake on you, then in their feeble minds they are afraid to flake because you already called them out on something they were going to do?

Women waste so much of their time doing nothing, they could certainly entertain me as company when I go out doing something enjoyable. Honestly aside from hitting up the bars and clubs where I schmooze every piece of ass that so much as looks my way (my city is a dead fucking place) or daygaming some rare decent halfways country broad, every time I've gone out and actually enjoyed myself in what could have been a date setting has been by myself. These broads have no real enjoyment in life its so pathetic. The times I've gotten lucky here have been due to just playing the numbers or being an uncaring asshole and pushing for escalation immediately. Strumpet nation rules.

Post: #7

(10-06-2015 11:52 PM)Stack Thornehawk Wrote:  What if you expose their flakiness indirectly before they flake on you, then in their feeble minds they are afraid to flake because you already called them out on something they were going to do?

Why waste the time and energy on that at all?

Post: #8

I am serious.

If in text or on a call you get the feeling a girl is iffy and will flake.

Flake on her first, it is your only chance to up her interest.

There is no magic line that will bring her around. The best you could do otherwise is have her randomly show up to the same venue and see you with a hotter chick (hopefully her sister or best friend). That's your only other option to reduce flaking.

Post: #9

Let me put it to you this way:

All those broads you flaked on that you didn't think were "on par" with you; did they call you out? If so, did you feel bad about it and change your behavior accordingly?

Exactly. If a bitch ghosts you it's because she doesn't care about you and you are way low on her list of priorities and options. If she doesn't care about you she certainly isn't going to care about you bitching at her. To her it's annoying at best. Sure she is socially inept and doesn't know how to deal with people because she would do something so rude as to end a relationship/cut off contact by way of lying, blowing you off, and ultimately fading away instead of being honest and forward - but that doesn't matter to her. Reacting to her being a flake really only fuels the fire because it makes her feel validated that her not giving a dude the time of day has that much of an impact so she must be that much of a catch.

It all comes down to personal preference, but as far as I'm concerned - wasting your emotions and time typing up some jilted text to some flaky cunt is just not worth it.

Post: #10

Girls flaking on you is just part of the game that you have to get used to. Girls change their minds about you more often than they change their panties. So you have to learn how tot care about a girl that flakes on you buy having options. By options I mean not putting a girl on a pedestal by getting your hopes up with her. Always have low expectations when it comes with girls following through with plans. This is where having options of other girls comes into play and you can hit them up to come out and play. Another way to decrease the flake rate dramatically is to give girls your number. If they hit you up then it shows they are interested. But I'm just warning you head that this yields low results unless the girl is very into you because a lot of girls don't take action because they like to follow not lead. You can also aim for a same day lay if logistics are in your favor otherwise you would be wasting your time. In my opinion if a girl flaked on you then it already starts yhe relationship between you two on a bad note and is an indicator of more problems to come in the future.

Post: #11

(10-06-2015 11:51 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  The solution is to either go back in time and get rid of the internet and cell phones, or be the guy she's flaking on another for. You can only control your reaction, there's nothing to do to change it from happening. That ship has sailed in our society.

As simple as that sounds, for now that's the key. The net and cell phones did one thing, it brought ALL the betas and sigmas into the same sphere of contact that was once dominated by more alpha men, or at least those mid-stride in transitioning to a more dominant lifestyle.

Do you really think all these guys on dating apps with their "ooo baby" openers would actually walk up to the same girl on the street or in a bar? Fuck no, they're wall flowers at best, if even gutsy enough to be in the bar/day game venue approaching girls in the first place.

The flake epidemic is really no surprise considering all that. Add in the natural social savvy of women and they've got a wicked formula to control and maximize the pussy gates.

Post: #12

Stalin I tell a girl to her a face if I don't like her or she's not my type, I have no shame out there in the field. However, I still believe that these notions of flakiness can be put into their brains just like a child learns by repetition, if you call out enough women for being flakes eventually there will be no one left to call out because all women exhibit this clownish trait.

What's worse is when they really are interested in you and then it goes from 100% to 0% the next day. Good God we were right about everything, the hamster the de-regulation of the sexual marketplace and the idiocy of a woman's brain alpha fuxx beta bux etc.

There's nothing any of you guys use when you talk to girls to sort of get an idea if she is going to flake on you, and stop it dead in its tracks by bringing up an instance of something or referencing flakiness indirectly putting it in the back of her mind so that she won't flake on you. All I need is a first date with a girl and I can usually escalate it to the bang. Getting the better quality girls in daygaming sessions to get a phone number isn't hard, but going all apocalypse-opener is just screening for the ones who are DTF immediately.
For instance if its a tuesday and you want to set up a date on friday, thats 72 whole hours her hamster has with nothing to think of and a million ways to turn down your date/meet up/whatever. There must be some kind of social engineering you can use to manipulate her into wanting to see you again, gina tingles etc (this is specifically for the hot broads prone to flaking). We've already dissected the female brain all over this forum, and you guys have been able to piece it together to help a lot of us younger fellas out, but there is always more to improve on! I don't mean to sound like a snarky twit but I'm going to push some kind of ingenious response out of one of you lol, there is always a way with words! Even for anti-flaking purposes.

Post: #13

(10-07-2015 12:43 AM)Stack Thornehawk Wrote:  Stalin I tell a girl to her a face if I don't like her or she's not my type, I have no shame out there in the field. However, I still believe that these notions of flakiness can be put into their brains just like a child learns by repetition, if you call out enough women for being flakes eventually there will be no one left to call out because all women exhibit this clownish trait.

What's worse is when they really are interested in you and then it goes from 100% to 0% the next day. Good God we were right about everything, the hamster the de-regulation of the sexual marketplace and the idiocy of a woman's brain alpha fuxx beta bux etc.

There's nothing any of you guys use when you talk to girls to sort of get an idea if she is going to flake on you, and stop it dead in its tracks by bringing up an instance of something or referencing flakiness indirectly putting it in the back of her mind so that she won't flake on you. All I need is a first date with a girl and I can usually escalate it to the bang. Getting the better quality girls in daygaming sessions to get a phone number isn't hard, but going all apocalypse-opener is just screening for the ones who are DTF immediately.
For instance if its a tuesday and you want to set up a date on friday, thats 72 whole hours her hamster has with nothing to think of and a million ways to turn down your date/meet up/whatever. There must be some kind of social engineering you can use to manipulate her into wanting to see you again, gina tingles etc (this is specifically for the hot broads prone to flaking). We've already dissected the female brain all over this forum, and you guys have been able to piece it together to help a lot of us younger fellas out, but there is always more to improve on! I don't mean to sound like a snarky twit but I'm going to push some kind of ingenious response out of one of you lol, there is always a way with words! Even for anti-flaking purposes.

I think you are looking for a cheat code that doesn’t exist. Adult women are not like children in this regard. A child has an incentive to listen to his/her parents; failure do so means punishment in some form. How are you going to punish a woman in any significant manner by yourself? Harsh language? Any spiteful action by you just confirms that you are low value in her eyes.

The change you want to evoke has to come from a larger societal/cultural level. Favorable ratios alone can cut down on flakiness. When I was in NYC this past year for example, the women there are thirsty by USA standards. I cancelled on a few dates and one in particularly threw a bitch fit about it (even with 9 hours notice and a legit reason). Did I care much? Nope. I had 6 other BETTER options in the pipeline. I would have still have met her if she didn’t flip out, however. But she did and what little incentive I had to meet was gone. That’s most women in America today and the dating market they live in: 1-strike and you’re out for most men. They've got a constant supply of eager and comparable replacements. Only way to counter this is to change the market (goto another location) or change YOUR value (work out, get famous, develop good game).

Others have already suggested some anti-flaking tactics:

1. Flake before she flakes – probably the best and only tactic that has any possible chance of working.

2. Meeting/time confirmation text few hours before meeting – might pressure guilt her into meeting.

But you are chasing the wrong target. As long as Flakey Slut Sally has an ample supply of thirsty men available to her that she is more attracted to for whatever reason, you are pissing into the wind trying to alter her behavior and/or shame her for her flakiness.

Hence why I alluded to in my original post that more and more men need to change and become red pill and not act like thirsty desperate fucktards with every flakey twat that gives them the time of the day. When that happens and there are no more men who will tolerate bullshit behavior, then and ONLY then, you might see some significant change. And even then, it’s debatably how much of an impact that will have.

Post: #14

My final solution, be dominant as fuck, from opening frame onwards, and maintain it right through to the last fuck with her. I see no other solution. If that means fake it the whole time till you make it to total dominance, then so be it.

I tend to come off as a bit of an asshole towards women. What can I say, I'm jaded. The ones that flake can't get over that from the start.. i.e. I'm too damn real for them. It's shell shock.

Usually if they "get" me, they realize I'm not really THAT big of an asshole, but rather, intolerant. From that point, if I haven't already banged them, they'll either cave and spread 'em, or genuinely believe I'm an asshole, for which I simply don't care. I can weed out keepers, or likely flakers in that mode, walking in my sleep.

Of the non-flaking bunch that I genuinely have interest in, I can amp up game with efficacy, wake up out of sleep mode, and really focus on a valuable target(s).

Post: #15

There is no solution. It's a fact of our modern culture and demographics. Until those change, this doesn't change.

Why does flaking happen? Because you're a transient, disposable option among a bevy of options she has available to her that are better than you and/or are less disposable than you.

You can deal with this in three ways:

- Don't be disposable: Quit cold approach and focus on social circles/introductions.
- Become better than the next guy: Genetics permitting, increase your value so that now they flake on him to be with you instead. (Or, lower your standards and thus your competition.)
- Await a cultural collapse event that kills off the surplus male demographic and surplus wealth in society. (Not a wait I'd recommend.)

Post: #16

(10-06-2015 10:03 PM)Stack Thornehawk Wrote:  I've heard it on here numerous times, what is a guy to do? Women will only get more entitled as the cathedral marches on its progressive anthem. Do we call them out on flaking, call out and insult, or just go about our business and next them?

I'm trying to get this message across to as many guys as I can. I'm guilty of flaking on girls too, usually ones I've considered not on par with me, but I've been decent enough to tell quite a few I'm not interested.

We know they're playing games and every cunt has a spare cock somewhere hitting her up while you're talking to her, but if we're going to draw the line, how do we draw the line with impact?

I've used lines like all the way from asshole-like "look are you single, or not? I've got enough friends to last me a lifetime so save me the trouble of waiting for nothing and just tell me" to even the simple insults like "right" or "gay" which gets the hamster going.

Some of you master gurus on here tell me whats the best way to leave an impact on a woman who flaked on you so that she's feels insecure about her own flakiness. In the looks department I've got everything so I know they're not flaking on me for that, its just typical hamster behavior.

I'm not a 'master guru' but I discovered i should be doing this - study women. Closely Study their thoughts, actions, reactions, patterns of behavior , habits and philosophy. I've started doing this in social settings, just observing. It's contributing to me unplugging. I want to know why they have the upper hand in the sex universe.
Back to your post - girls always position themselves to be approached and thus have plenty of suitors. I've learned that girls are always in this mode. So any sole guy who's in this group of suitors who tries to hold her accountable for flaking will quickly be forgotten. Girls always have options and compared to us they do relatively little to achieve this.

Post: #17

Women never flake on guys they really, really want.

Be that guy.

QED

Post: #18

Does a crack addict flake on her crack dealer?

OK then

Post: #19

(10-06-2015 11:57 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  All those broads you flaked on that you didn't think were "on par" with you; did they call you out? If so, did you feel bad about it and change your behavior accordingly?

I've noticed even the 5s and lower don't care when you flake on them. It's mostly a guy thing. A guy who get's pussy on the regular doesn't care about flakes.

I'd recommend OP get a fuck buddy lower in quality than him. That way he can release the tension of not getting the hotter girls.

Post: #20

(10-07-2015 01:27 AM)The Black Knight Wrote:  But you are chasing the wrong target. As long as Flakey Slut Sally has an ample supply of thirsty men available to her that she is more attracted to for whatever reason, you are pissing into the wind trying to alter her behavior and/or shame her for her flakiness.

Hence why I alluded to in my original post that more and more men need to change and become red pill and not act like thirsty desperate fucktards with every flakey twat that gives them the time of the day. When that happens and there are no more men who will tolerate bullshit behavior, then and ONLY then, you might see some significant change. And even then, it’s debatably how much of an impact that will have.

This is part and parcel to the epidemic of flaking. An epidemic of thirsty men. They go hand in hand.

The best solution is not trying to punish women but educate men. Women's value is inflated because of the perception that they have an endless stream of men and options, and rightly so. I've mentioned this before on the forum.

(06-05-2014 02:15 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  The main reason women flake is definitely abundance of options.

Lets put this into perspective:

Girls put in zero effort and yet have countless avenues to get dick and attention from men literally right at their fingertips. It is nigh impossible to find a Western girl between the ages of 12-40 that doesn't have a smart phone and some sort of social media outlet where she is undoubtedly receiving lots of attention. This is the "perfect storm" for breeding jaded, staunchly narcissistic, an socially detached individuals. The information age has allowed thirsty, weak, socially-inept men to "approach" women 24/7 free of any of inhibitions of actual physical confrontation where your emotions, anxiety, and all other bits of insecure social nuances are on display. Men who, in the past, would not have been competent in the dating market and would be off the sexual radar for any average girl - men who, in the past, would have to actually build up the social providence and hone their skills and confidence through traditional trial and error learning to actually meet and talk to desirable women. This is no longer the case. This translates to women getting attention and options for intimacy from far more people and at far more frequency than in the days of yore. Girls don't even need to be out in a social setting to meet men and get attention. She can sit home alone all day and be on Facebook, Instagram, Tinder, OKC, etc. and be getting friend requests, messages, likes, offers for dates. They get this same radio noise when they are out with friends, when they are on a date, whether or not they have a boyfriend/fiancé/husband it doesn't matter. 24/7/365.

Try to put yourself in those shoes and tell me you wouldn't blow girls off and be hypergamous. Imagine for a second that you made a dating profile and you got 25 messages a day. You made a Facebook account, posted a selfie and got 20 comments from different girls saying how cute you looked. Imagine you posted a status saying "Man, would love to go for a walk on the beach with a nice girl today" and you instantly got a flood of offers from women. You decide to make a date with the most attractive one (lease ugly one?) and then you get an offer from a girl that is more desirable. You going to have reservations for this not-so-great prospect when you have a couple of even better ones hitting you up? Of course not.

Abundance of options.

If we could alter the women's perceptions of options then we can change flaking.

Post: #21

(10-06-2015 10:03 PM)Stack Thornehawk Wrote:  I've heard it on here numerous times, what is a guy to do? Women will only get more entitled as the cathedral marches on its progressive anthem. Do we call them out on flaking, call out and insult, or just go about our business and next them?

I'm trying to get this message across to as many guys as I can. I'm guilty of flaking on girls too, usually ones I've considered not on par with me, but I've been decent enough to tell quite a few I'm not interested.

We know they're playing games and every cunt has a spare cock somewhere hitting her up while you're talking to her, but if we're going to draw the line, how do we draw the line with impact?

I've used lines like all the way from asshole-like "look are you single, or not? I've got enough friends to last me a lifetime so save me the trouble of waiting for nothing and just tell me" to even the simple insults like "right" or "gay" which gets the hamster going.

Some of you master gurus on here tell me whats the best way to leave an impact on a woman who flaked on you so that she's feels insecure about her own flakiness. In the looks department I've got everything so I know they're not flaking on me for that, its just typical hamster behavior.

If you're going to post, especially in the game forum, please search first. Otherwise, you're wasting a lot of the forum's time and simply post-whoring. There is no solution to flaking, there are only mitigating strategies.

Searching via Google "how to deal with flakes" returns a whole lot of threads. If you look at the last link it's a post by Roosh himself:

/thread-10678.html
/thread-16581.html
/thread-34631.html
/thread-3562.html
/thread-35370.html
/thread-4372.html
/thread-4996.html
/thread-30916.html

In case anyone missed it, SEARCH!

Post: #22

(10-07-2015 05:21 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  Women never flake on guys they really, really want.

Be that guy.

QED

Yea but women have no idea what they really really want so thats a moot point...

Post: #23

Flaking can really suck. On the topic of avoiding flaky/dead numbers- I've found implementing conventional/rapport building text game while injecting humor and remaining non-needy (keeping messages short and varying response times) works best for me (rather than super-terse, strictly logistics, icy/asshole text game). I only engage icy mode if the girl plays petulant games/is a bitch and I need to diffuse nuclear shit tests.

Where flaking has frustrated me most is post-first meet. My last string of approximately 5 meets (leads were cultivated via online) have all led nowhere (even if the physical attraction is strong and make-out occurs). I've remained mostly optimistic, but it's hard to not get bummed on occasion. I'd rather the girl reveal herself or her disinterest upfront/over the phone and not meet her, rather than waste my time over drinks and build any sense of false hope. To at least get the bang and then she ghosts is one thing... Maybe they're all sensing the player vibe and my desire to get the bang asap/not waste time. Been really frustrating.

Screening the girl over Skype/Facetime is an efficiency mechanism I may start consistently using. For any girl with an iPhone, there's no reason why they can't engage in a Facetime session- as it's bundled into iOS. If she balks or acts bitchy- next her. Using this technique sporadically has led to great results in the past:
- I tend to engage the session at night and keep the conversation to ~15 minutes (30 max if it goes well). Tell her you have to get going and maintain frame (plans that night/big day tomorrow). Use this as an opportunity for bait/DHV.
- See if there's even an ounce of chemistry/if she'd bang. I can pick up on this better when talking with the girl face to face.
- See if she's as attractive as she has portrayed in her pics. Need to screen out the SIFs/outdated pic girls.
- Build comfort and rapport. She'll feel more comfortable getting together in person It's like a cheat code for skipping the first meet.

Ultimately, I'd much rather screen out a girl or have her reject me, conveniently in the comfort of my own home- rather than waste time, effort and resources meeting at some bar for the hundredth time.

Post: #24

I used to think that the world was going through a flaking epidemic because of smart phones and social media.

After about 4-5 years of diligently learning and applying game, and my overall game improved, I noticed less and less flaking. Then, I noticed girls being the ones initiating dates / hang outs with me. I also noticed the hordes of dudes that would text their phone asking them to chill / trying to go pick them up. I remember I used to be one of those guys.

Now, I'm on the other side. I flake on girls all the time. I have girls that will drop whatever it is they are doing at a moments notice and find a way to come see me. Last weekend I had a girl sleep over. I felt like sleeping-in in the morning and didn't want to drive her to her skating practice in the morning. She eventually had to send out a few text messages and within 15 min there was someone outside ready to pick her up and drive her to practice. Alpha fucks, beta drives to skating practice.

This isn't to say I don't experience talking, because I certainly do. But its not an "epidemic." It's simply a girl that isn't interested in seeing me. A girl that has "better" options in her mind. A girl that has another alpha cock she craves that decided to finally respond to her text that day.
I can try and "convince" a flakey girl to hang out with me (turn a "maybe" girl into a "yes" girl), or I can next her and keep approaching more women (and find more straight up "yes" girls that will worship my cock).

Post: #25

Evolution says:
Men provide commitment and seek out sex
Women provide sex and seek out commitment

Feminism (and our culture) says:
Women don't need commitment, so men aren't needed

Either deal with it or find an outlet where you're needed. Hint, it's not for resources and protection.

Me? I've sculpted my body, and I'm a fun guy, so for now, I'm fine being wanted for sex.

Oh yeah, the thread was about flaking...I hope you can figure out how this relates (there's not a solution other than maybe the first response).