Post: #26

For many people trying to speak a foreign language is a pressure. They are forcing themselves out of their comfort zone to progress - just like you.

Even when you genuinely not getting what they're saying if you show you're on their side they'll be pretty keen to speak with you.

Great for beginning social interactions

Post: #27

Since this got bumped I'll say where I'm at now.

I really haven't spoken with any women since that day nor have I done much random chatting while in the streets. However, I've been making an effort to go out to weekly meetup events to chat with people to work on my conversation skills.

This is where I can't make sense of my mindset. When I talk to people on the phone, I feel generally relaxed and like I could converse for hours. However, when I try to converse with people face to face like at these meeetups, I always feel like the conversations don't draw me in and they instead make me exhausted from making eye contact and acknowledging what people say all the time.

Basically, face to face conversations feel like something mechanical and calculated rather than fluid like a phone conversation for me. Like, I HAVE to say this, then I HAVE to listen and acknowledge everything with head shaking and uhhuhs, then I HAVE to respond.

What might I be doing wrong?

Post: #28

(12-08-2015 06:26 PM)rapaz12 Wrote:  Since this got bumped I'll say where I'm at now.

I really haven't spoken with any women since that day nor have I done much random chatting while in the streets. However, I've been making an effort to go out to weekly meetup events to chat with people to work on my conversation skills.

This is where I can't make sense of my mindset. When I talk to people on the phone, I feel generally relaxed and like I could converse for hours. However, when I try to converse with people face to face like at these meeetups, I always feel like the conversations don't draw me in and they instead make me exhausted from making eye contact and acknowledging what people say all the time.

Basically, face to face conversations feel like something mechanical and calculated rather than fluid like a phone conversation for me. Like, I HAVE to say this, then I HAVE to listen and acknowledge everything with head shaking and uhhuhs, then I HAVE to respond.

What might I be doing wrong?

it's wonderful that you're openly posting what's going on and (for a student of love) really unforgiveable that you haven't spoken with a woman about 33 days now.
it should NOT even be like 33 hours.
you say 33 days.
are you kidding me. why are you in prison tell us what happened lol

seriously do something. if you don't know what to do, do the exercises on styles book. or if there's a sanctioned roosh version do that one even better.
to get better and to actually enjoy this (later on) for the immediate term you need to force yourself to do exercises. remember school, you didn't want to go but you had to - everybody does it. it's like that.

I remember first 2-3 exercises on styles book, basic things like "go out ask the time to 5 strangers - that's all for today. go home have a celebratory drink" things like that. no biggie. do that for 30 days and level up. 33 days from now on you will be in MUCH better shape. that's a promise. it's just like dungeons and dragons. starts with asking time ends up in dungeons with dragons (women) lol

Post: #29

Back to basics
Level 1: Smile to random people as you walk, at street, mall...
Level 2: Say "hi" to random people as you walk, talk more if they stop
Level 3: Talk with clerks at stores at the mall, example- can you help me find some shoes?
Level 4: Ask for directions/time/places at random people at the street,places...
Level 5: Use the "elderly chat" in anyplace

You get the idea, i remember that's what i did when approaching anxiety, hope it works for you

Post: #30

Basics is good but he also needs a concentrated effort to direct the energy to the ultimate goal immediately after bssics hence the benefit in using a structured program. With a predefined limited number of days (light at the end of tunnel affect).

@OP
Find one - follow one...

Post: #31

I went out to a meetup today to practice my French and I got to practice with many attractive women. I think the conversations went well but I wanted to ask about this.

How should you handle it when you're conversing with women under the pretext of a situation like this where it's like a meetup group? Because I meet these women and I think our interactions go well and I want to talk with them outside the get together but I don't know how to go about asking them for their number.

Or, should I just not try anything? Because there is a very very high likelihood I'll see them at this get together again and I feel like this would make a bad impression on me in the eyes of others if I was to try something like this.

Post: #32

This past month I've been making an effort to go out at night almost everyday.

When I go out, I practice more on feeling at ease being alone than I do on socializing and I believe I'm at a point now where being alone doesn't completely scare me.

I've made a few light approaches also during the day and night.

Two were in the grocery store

1. girl was looking at flowers (this was around Valentine's day) and I said, "thinking of the right one for someone?" and then she said "yea" while still looking at the flowers. I said something about finding something for my mom but she didn't really acknowledge it or look at look me so I moved on.

2. Girl was looking at bulk food containers (you know, those things where you can buy ingredients for a diy traill mix). I asked her, "is it really cheaper to buy food like this?" and she told me something about getting it to make trail mix. I can't remember what I said next but the interaction ended with her walking away from me as she spoke.

The others were two sets of two girls at night.

1. Two girls together sitting at the bar. I'd say one was a 7 and the other was less attractive. Since I figured it would be better, I approached the less attractive one with the let me guess where you're from opener. I guessed where she was from and then I asked her to guess the same for me, but she didn't seem to enthusiastic to guess.

After a little banter, she asked me my name and I gave the first random name I could think of. She told the 7 the name and then she yelled it was a serial killers name and then I joked that it was a good guy serial killer. I then asked her for her name but she ignored the question.

After that, I just stood around sipping my drink looking dumb until I finished it and then left.

2.Two girls standing together at another bar.I used the same opener on them. When they asked why I thought they were from the place I mentioned, I said it's because women from there dress better. They went back to taking to each other and my mind went blank.

Some thoughts:
These night approaches didn't go well, but I really felt truly good about myself for doing them. Especially since it took me a hour to work up the courage for the first group of girls. I also see that activation energy thing roosh had mentioned in bang is very real as I felt less afraid to approach the second group of girls after approaching the first and I also noticed that when I backed off too long after approaching the second set of girls, I started to get nervous all over again. So keeping the momentum really is crucial.

Post: #33

Wow "a serial killers name". What a dumb bitch.

Post: #34

I gave it another go tonight but with a wing.

We went to one place and I opened a group of two girls and invited them to play a game with us. One of the girls was receptive but the other that I ended up talking to wasn't. So, I stopped talking to her and then I chatted with the more receptive girl and my wing a little but then I backed out because I didn't want to throw off my wings game with my leariness.

We then went another place where I had to work up the courage to open a group with two girls and a guy. I kept trying to make excuses in my head to not do it, but my wing told me what to say to open them and then he told me he'd show up to " rescue me" after a few minutes. It was only four minutes or so, but it felt like an eternity because I was so nervous. However, I tried and overall, it ended up being really really cool since we ended up hanging out with them for quite awhile.

One of the girls in the group appeared available and I felt like she paid more attention to me as we all conversed. We went to several bars together and then when I was ready to go I said bye to everyone and then when I said it to her, she made a point to ask me what my name was again. My mind started to seize because I felt like it was an invitation to ask for her number, but I was freaking out so much, I couldn't think of a way to ask her for it. After that, I left with my mind telling me I messed up majorily because this girl seemed really really cool.

Post: #35

I went out solo as usual tonight and had a great time. I wanted to try to do things differently so I started off the night by trying to IMMEDIATELY open whoever I saw (male or female) when I walked into the bar and also say the first thing that came to my mind instead of thinking hard.

It was a good idea because some people I opened were really closed off and that got me down for a second, but then I kept approaching more people and having more positive interactions and my confidence quickly shot up. What then happened for the rest of the night was that I rode this wave of energy.

I opened three groups of girls. One had four that were all easily 8+ and the other two were in a group of two but I'd say none of them were more than a 6.

On the group of four I opened with the "let me guess, you're all from_____" opener. They told me where they were from but then they went back to talking to each other, so I ejected.

My head is hurting, so I'll try to write more tomorrow

Post: #36

Great job sticking to it. Keep going at it and report it here.

Post: #37

Based on your attempts so far, you are struggling to calibrate into a comfortable 'vibe'

Think about your tone of voice and body language a little more.

Post: #38

Ok, to continue last night. I approached one group of girls sitting down and I chatted with them a little bit. They asked me my name and then I gave a dumb answer and then after that they started saying, "nooooo seriously what's your name??" I then told them my name and then we talked about where they were from and then we ended up talking about work...

For some reason, I always end up asking about work even though it's the number one thing I hate taking about. I guess out of nervousness, my mind blanks and all I can think to ask is about work. But anyways, I got bored of the conversation and realized I couldn't think of what to say after we discussed work, so I ejected.

I then approached another group of two girls. Neither of them were super noteworthy in the looks department but I did have a good time chatting with them.

After I left talking to them, I saw a girl sitting down messing with her phone. I sat down next to her and asked how the weather looks for tomorrow and then I tried to say a little more but she wasn't having it.

I left the bar and stood outside looking around. A guy approached me asking for some change and I was a little leary but something told me not to worry. We started chatting after I gave him some change about various stuff and then we got to women. I told how SA women are awesome, and then he suddenly said that he actually came out with a group like 10 deep of Latin women and only one other dude. I thought at that moment the my luck had been unbeeelievable.

He then gave me An invitation to meet them and I happily obliged, but my nervousness started to destroy my relaxed demeanor at this point. I went over and said hello and shook hands with all the girls which were all easily 7+, but then everyone went back to talking to someone else.

I started freaking out about not saying more to the girls so instead of talking with them, I just spoke to the guy. Eventually after lots of silence and staring around I felt like it just wasn't working out and I thought to eject, but I stayed.

It was a bad idea. I could have ejected gracefully but I waited too long. I told them I was gonna go but then I kept trying to start a conversation with one girl that was next to him that was just not working out. Eventually the guy started giving me the "what's up with this guy?" look and started saying, "ah, so you gotta go right??" to which I replied yea and then I gave this super awkward goodbye and left.

Post: #39

Does anyone have nights where they can't get into the groove at all?

I went out last night and after I saw a movie with my family, I went straight to a dance event. I tried to get into it but I just wasn't feeling it. People wanted to teach me moves that were difficult to understand, there weren't many people there at all, and I didn't feel enthused to start conversations with anyone.

After a bit, I left and went to the bar and it was pretty much the opposite extreme. I didn't feel like trying to talk to anyone and I felt that it was just way to crowded to hold any semblance of a conversion. After about an hour I just went back home.

I don't know why I was so down tonight, but I just was. My only thoughts are maybe I was still drained from the high energy and multiple interactions from yesterday or maybe I just spent too much time in places I wasn't vibing in which drained my energy.

Post: #40

I decided to try day approaching today.

I started out walking around the store looking at random things to calm myself. After a little of that, I saw one woman and asked her about some books I was looking at. However, the conversation was really short because I couldn't think of anything to say after I asked her if she liked the movie the book I was looking at is based on.

I then saw a woman that was maybe a 7 with a dog. I thought it was a little odd to see a pet inside this store, so I opened her by asking if people always bring their pets in this store. She told me the dog was actually a service dog to help her manage anxiety. After she told me that, I asked her a little bit about what types of things it does for her and some other questions. I then went on to share some personal experiences related to anxiety with her.

After that, my mind went blank and I couldn't think of a way to transition, so I ended the conversation.

This interaction was really cool to me because I later ran into another person with a service dog in the same store. This was really nice because it helped me see how all the little things we talk about with one person could be the thing to help us open another person.

I also liked these day approaches because I felt like I could be a more true to life form of myself. I didn't have to be this screaming high energy snarky person that I feel like night game requires.

Post: #41

Maybe it sounds a little discouraging, but None of us can really help you make the first steps. Since you are already approaching, you are halfway there. Keep it up. There is nothing as valuable as persistent practise (this gos for all fields, not just game). You Need to internalize, that when you are out in the field, nobody will be there to help you. If this was easy, everyone would do it. I have a lot of respect, for any man who decides to improve himself (in whatever field). I was a hardcase newbie myself and am only 1.5 years in the game. I lost my virginity when I was 19. I probably know how you feel because I suffered from massive Approach anxiety myself. Whenever you are to scared to Approach, tell youself: "I feel the fear, but I do it anyway." This Mantra helped me a lot.

Also: Sometimes it's good to cut off your old friends, if you want to make a Major shift. Try to surround yourself with high energy, outgoing People.

Post: #42

Some approaches

1) I was sitting down waiting for some food I ordered in a cafe and another woman comes in and places an order for her food. She sits down by me and starts messing with her phone. I decide to ask her if she works in the building that this cafe is in (there's several businesses here).

She then tells me that she actually works across the street in a clinic. I then ask her if she's a receptionist there, but then she tells me that she manages the clinic. After she tells me this I immediately start to feel like an idiot for assuming she's a receptionist and then I start to panic a lot and begin to ask about prices in the clinic. She starts in on her pitch for the clinic and then when she finishes she tells me I ought to check her clinic out and then she quickly grabs her food and leaves.

The rest of these are night approaches at bars
2) I see a group of people with one dude and a few women standing around and then I ask where they're from. They all.tell me where and then I make a small comment about how interesting it is that guy is born in a large city but then ends up in a small city. Nobody really says much else so I continue on to...

3) two girls sitting down chatting. I see them and immediately sit down at their table. I ask them where they're from and then they tell me. After a few "what's going on here?" glances from one of the girls I then ask where they went to college. They tell me and then they exchange more troubled glances and then I decide to leave.

4) Two girls at a game with one of them playing. I ask the one not playing if she's ever played a game similar to the one they're playing at Dave and busters. She then says no and asks me if the game I mentioned is any good and I say no. We then talk a little about Dave and busters and how expensive it is and then she turns her head and goes back to watching her friend play the game.

5)I notice a woman with a tassel on and a group of friends so I walk up to her and ask her what the occasion is. She says it's her bacherlorette party. I then ask the girls closest to me if they're from here and they say no. After that, I asked if everyone at the table was a bridesmaid and one 8+ girl tells me she the maid of honor. I then focus my attention to her and chat with her a little bit and then she turns away and starts talking to another person.

I then go back to chatting with the bacholerete until all of a sudden another awesome 8 walks in from outside that's one of the bridesmaids. She immediately starts staring hard at me and smirking and I turn away for a sec and then when she gets to the table she continues to make flirty looks at me.

My brain goes blank and I start to act like I'm chatting with the guy that's with me until I think of what to do. I then decide to move over to her and comment on something her friends said to her when she came in. She then responds to me and then I think(my memory is terrible) she asks what my name is. I think I tell her and then she starts ignoring me.

I then figure I screwed it up and eject.

Post: #43

(03-13-2016 01:45 AM)rapaz12 Wrote:  My brain goes blank and I start to act like I'm chatting with the guy that's with me until I think of what to do. I then decide to move over to her and comment on something her friends said to her when she came in. She then responds to me and then I think(my memory is terrible) she asks what my name is. I think I tell her and then she starts ignoring me.

I then figure I screwed it up and eject.

You're giving yourself too hard of a time here. Right now you're only looking at this one way, but it's clear to me you're doing better than you realize and you don't even know it. Think about it: here you are, talking with a bunch of people you didn't really know, and a girl who hasn't even met you yet is interested in you. You thought she was ignoring you? She might've lost interest when you began talking to her. Or maybe she was feeling just as nervous as you are and wasn't sure to say. Either way, you fucking walked up to group of people you've never met before and handled it pretty solidly.

There's always room to improve, but I would say this is far from screwing up. You engaged a group which is only going to increase your social skills. You talked to a girl who showed interest you instead of staying inside your head and never engaging her. The best part of all this is it will help you that much more in the next interaction. Just like when you talked to the girl with the service dog and then ran into someone else with one. Now you have one more experience you can talk about.

You are always going to gain something good from every interaction, so don't beat yourself up about it.

Post: #44

Thanks for all the support guys. Having something to share is really beginning to become rewarding for me.


I was eating some food in this fast place today and I saw a girl walk in. She had a really nice athletic body on her and I could tell she liked to work out. She ordered her food and sat down to wait. I decided in my head I had to approach so my idea was to ask her if she went to the gym. Thus, I waited a few minutes and then I quickly gobbled my food up and then walked over to her.

I asked her if she knew any good gyms in the area and we chatted for a bit about gyms in town and pricing and trainers. At one point the clerk started to yell at her to let her know her food was ready and she quickly blew him off to continue speaking to me. After that, I knew at that point that she may be really interested in me.

However, since I'm so ridiculous, it totally freaked me out to realize she might be into me. Once I realized this, I totally lost my steam and began to run Out of things to say. I then quickly ended the conversation and left.


I really felt like I could've gone somewhere with this interaction. I just don't know why I sabotage myself like this when I can tell I might have a shot.

Post: #45

I think you're off to a good start, and the more information and detail you provide, the more we can offer suggestions.

Here's a couple from me. I would ditch the "let me guess where you're from" opener for now. You seem to have more success by asking a question rather than putting yourself immediately in the hot seat.

Going with that concept, start thinking about your conversations differently with every person you meet. Ask follow-up questions to people who intrigue you. If you can tell they are boring or not interested, these are cold opportunities from the beginning. Just move on to the next one. As was mentioned, start having fun. People that don't like you or are boring are certainly not fun.

Regarding follow up questions: if you are going to be able to ask them you have to improve your in-person listening skills. You said you can do it on the phone, so my guess is you're spending too much time inside your own head instead of on the other person. For example, if you said that you'd like to do some traveling after graduation, and she says "I love to travel" you might ask if she could go anywhere in the world, where would you go? She responds with xxxx. A lot of people let it die right there by saying "ya that's cool, I'd go to yyyyy." But instead of thinking about what you'll say, you might ask a thought provoking question such as "Why is going to xxxx important to you?"

Obviously don't sound like a 3-year-old and keep asking "why?" after everything she says, but understanding who she is and if you even want to spend another second of your life on this girl is important.

So the idea is to ask open-ended questions after listening carefully. Say her name a couple times throughout the conversation so you don't forget it. The only time you should be asking questions that can be answered with one word (yes/no) are confirmation questions- and you should be asking them in a way that "yes" is the desired response. Think about these types of things ahead of time. You're not going to ask if she's got a boyfriend. You could ask, Do you live near here? I'm going to see this new band this weekend, wanna go?

When you want her number, just casually take out your phone and create a new contact and say give me your number and let her fill in the info. Then call that number to "make sure you got it right". 95% of girls have their phone sitting on the table because they can't hear it in their purse. Needless to say, it should ring. Then continue the conversation or say you'll continue some other time and then leave. Some people will say that numbers are a waste of time. But for you, I think it will give you some confidence moving forward. If you can get 1 number you can get 100. If you can get 100, you will probably be getting laid and you'll be completely ok with getting blown out by some cunt at the bar because she let you know in 60 seconds what it took some other ex- boyfriend of hers 6 months to figure out. These failures become dodged bullets.

If you get a one night stand out of your approach, that's great. You can get the number in the morning if you want. Or not. Whatever. But if you meet some new cool people to hang out with along the way, that's good too. Being able to add quality people to your life is a great skill to have, no matter if you're fucking them or not.

Stay with it, brother. It gets easier.

Post: #46

Thanks a lot for the tips Gustavus. I agree that asking questions seems more congruent with my personality and I like it better since it doesn't force me to come up with an interesting answer when girls ask me why I guess the places I do.

Since my last post, I got really burnt out from going out and trying to socialize so much. So, I just kinda chilled and did less. It amazes though because I realized that in the short span of a few days all my fears and anxieties started to creep back.

Since I noticed this, I decided to make a point to go out Friday. I made a point to focus more on just becoming comfortable just speaking again so I didn't dedicate much energy to trying to talk to women.

First I went to a comedy show that had really corny jokes. I chatted with the people next to me and then I made an attempt to chat to a couple of foreigners because I was curious about them, but they got spooked and walked away from me.I next went to a bar and ordered some food and chatted to another couple about traveling outside the US. After that, I went to another bar and made a few observational openers to some people and then I made a quick walk through in some other bars and then called it a night.

On Saturday I went to a dance night. In order to not get in my own head too much, I made a point to try to grab a girl and try to dance the second I walked in the door and I did exactly that. I had one dance and then I grabbed more girls to dance and I chatted with each of them a little while dancing too.

At one point I danced with this 7 girl I had seen at this dance event a previous time. I asked her about a friend of hers I met before and she said, "I bet you remembered her because you think she's cute." I knew I should've agreed and amplified but I got nervous and tried to say there was no special reason that I remembered her. I then danced with another girl who remembered me and we kind of caught up in what was new since the last time we saw each other and it was nice. I then danced with lots more women(and stepped on a few toes); some were fun to dance with and others less so since they were too perfectionist about their dancing.

Finally today, I started reading a mall approach thread here and decided I wanted to try to ease into some daytime interactions. I first went into an trendy sunglass store and chatted for a little with the worker about some stuff and I managed to get a coupon from him which was nice because I got a literal reward for being social.

I then left the store and opened two girls asking if the mall was about to close. We chatted a little about different malls in the area and how they have different hours on the weekends and I walked off.

I saw I still had some time to burn so I then decided to head to another store outside the mall. I went in and immediately opened some people to ask their opinions on keyboards. After that, I grabbed some stuff I actually needed to buy and I headed to the checkout. Once there, I eyed this nerdy 7 behind the counter and chatted to her about some of the clothes she was wearing while she scanned my purchases. It ended up leading to us talking about various shows we liked to watch and then her recommending shows to me. At one point she handed me her phone to show me some trailers of some tv shows she was recommending. She even made a point to attend to the customers and then come right back to speaking to me.

In the end though, I wasn't sure how to progress past the conversation about tv shows with her manager watching us, so I decided to thank her for her recommendations and leave.

I liked this girl though. Would you guys try to go back later on and try to get the number or should I have tried to number close then and there? To be honest I don't know how I would ask for her number

Post: #47

Phoenix gave some great advice and you should be continuing to one up that advice and generally know what to do.

A few things. As others suggested the gym is a must. The next thing though. Start working on your style.

Find a look you like that you think pulls. Most guys where whom started off the way that you did have no sense in style whatsoever. Initial appearances go a long way mate. I would suggest looking around you at the people whom pull the most or are with the hottest girls on a night out as a good reference as to what works in your area.

If they are muscular, then that would mean the gym and weights are much more important than just the clothes. I would also fix up your hair.

Just google men's haircuts until you find one you like and have your barber fix it up for you like that. Or if you don't mind paying a bit extra, going to a more professional stylist to just work on a look for you.

Once you've found the look you like I would head out to outlet malls ASAP during sales and buy nice clothes in bulk to completely change up your look.

Cheers and all the best mate.

Post: #48

I actually scoped out a couple gyms today and I hope to decide on one before the end of the week. As far as style, I bought a new wardrobe a month ago and I've been trying to maintain haircuts at a predictable frequency.

A quick little update.

I approached one woman during lunch by asking her where she got her coat from.She appeared receptive because she immediately started to ramble after I asked her. However, my mind went blank and the only thing I could muster to reply to her was "ahhhh ok ok."Then I walked off.

Later on in the day, I approached two women speaking Spanish in a bookstore. I said excuse me and then asked where they were from. They then told me Spain and then I asked if they were students and they said they actually came to teach. Unfortunately, like before my mind immediately went blank and I just said "ahhh ok ok cool" and then they walked off, but not before I heard one of the women mutter, "I thought he wanted to attack me or something."

Lastly, I went back to the store I went to the other day because I legitimately needed to buy something. I grabbed what I needed and coincidentally the same nerdy girl from before popped up to ring me up. This time her mood was a total 180. She literally acted as if we never spoke and with a straight face told me the price. I paid her the cash and then she quickly went away. It completely floored me how ice cold she went, but I guess there's a lesson to be learned there about not pulling the trigger.

Post: #49

I met a 20 year old 7 today in the pool and I think I would've had it in the bag.

We played some games with a ball and chatted. While we were doing this we would constantly splash each other in the face and make jokes with each other.

I really really wanted to enjoy the interaction but I couldn't help but feel extremely uncomfortable. The whole time part of my brain was screaming at me to exploit every opportunity I had to get closer and touch her, but the other part of my brain kept screaming at me that touching her was wrong, dirty, and that it felt "safer" for me to not to escalate.

I kept thinking about asking for her number too, but that was stressing me out. Eventually, she left and then she came back later and I thought that I was ready to ask, but then I noticed her friends were there and it started to freak me out and I decided not too.

Later tonight I went out to a bar too. I opened a few women, but the same issue persisted. I had decent conversations, but I couldn't find the courage to inject any flirting or kino and I couldn't push myself to ask for a number.

I now see I have a major issue with physical contact and I don't really know how to work on it. Also, I STILL haven't asked a girl for her number yet and I hope to do it soon.

Post: #50

Either record yourself and show it to a few people who can breakdown what you need to improve on in regards to looks, voice, demeanour etc or get someone who is good with women to watch you talk and interact with women and tell you what you are doing wrong. Then start to improve on those things, I think you will progress faster at that rate.

I think you are too into your mind, you need to really get out of your comfort zone.