Post: #26

Because it allows them to signal how much better they are than all those dumb nasty white rubes who believe in a "Sky God", "Sky Wizard" or whatever unoriginal name they come up with for the Christian God.

To them it's not a personal belief they're strident in so much as it is status signaling. Being an atheist or some sort of hippie pagan is a required part of joining their group, but in reality their atheism is just anti-Christian belief. They will attack anyone who criticizes any other religion that isn't primarily followed by white people. That's why they attack easy targets like Scientology and Christianity yet try to avoid Islam, Buddhism, etc.

Post: #27

The Buddhist obsession from them is an interesting phenomenon.

They really like to emphasize how Buddhism is an atheist religion as if that was a big central tenant of the religion - like for these people it's a huge selling point. The reality is that the non-theistic aspect just isn't that important. When Buddha himself was asked if he thought there was a supreme being he simply refused to answer the question cause he thought it wasn't relevant to his doctrine whether it was true or not.

And while there isn't a supreme absolute God in Buddhism (or more specifically, the existence of one simply isn't really discussed) there are many lower-case g gods as well as many other supernatural elements which for some reason all these hardened Western rationalists would never forgive if it came from a Judeo-Christian background but they seem willing to let it slide in the case of Buddhism even if they don't believe it in it themselves. I can tell you that the way Buddhism is practiced by a lot of the common folk in Asia is pretty much what you would expect from a typical religion with people praying Buddha or some other divine being for assistance in their personal life.

Post: #28

Quintus wrote an RoK article about a French Catholic priest that was secretly an atheist but didn't reveal it until after his death via a long book he wrote attacking not just Catholicism but all forms of religion and theism:

http://www.returnofkings.com/71823/is-atheism-good

The points the priest make is the sort of common atheism talking points you see today but I suppose back when he was writing they were still fresh and original. What really was interesting to me weren't negative thoughts, him talking about what he didn't believe in but his positive thoughts, what he DID believe in. It looks like he believed in a sort of socialistic/Communistic society where property is shared and society provides for the needs of all it's citizens. So not was he original with his atheist stance he was also original with his proto-Communist ideals so I shall crown him the King of Hipsters. Quoted from Quintus' article:

"He cast his vote in favor of a communistic utopia. Man could be happy if he abolished the ideas of privilege and property, for these were the root of all evil. All property should be nationalized by the state; every man should have his health and welfare guaranteed; and possessions should be held in common."

I wanted to know a bit more so I went looking for more information about the man and I found this long but very educational article about his testament: http://newpol.org/content/jean-meslier-a...ion-nature

"Jean Meslier invents the visibility of the class struggle. On one side, the peasants, the workers, the poor, the wretched, the people suffering at work, strangled with multiple taxes and fees, mentally, spiritually, physically, enslaved every day; on the other side, the priests and the kings, the bishops and the princes, the gendarmes and the people of justice -- he writes, "people of injustice" and names them: notaries, prosecutors, lawyers, clerks of the court, controllers, stewards of the police, sergeants, judges, the powerful accomplices of offenders -- the fee collectors, the tax collectors, and the other "vile rats of the cave," the nobles, the "rich idlers," who play with the goods of this world, eating, drinking, dancing, joking, diverting themselves and laughing in the salons. These powerful people avail themselves of the most beautiful lands, the most beautiful houses, the most beautiful inheritances; they live from their rents and from taxes violently levied on the workers -- which does not prevent them from always wanting more and more."

" To this he links as well the abolition of private property. Fifty years before the Rousseau's critique of Discourse On the Origin of Inequality Among People, Meslier makes private possession and enjoyment of wealth responsible for all evil. Because with it, the most cunning, the craftiest, the meanest and the strong join forces to triumph over the poor and develop means of exploiting them.

Once private property is abolished, common wealth will be realized -- "to enjoy in common." All that is obtained by work, the fruits of prosperity and of talent, will be treated as common goods of the commune. And the unit at a base? The family. But it is a cell, a link in the chain. By itself it does not constitute the goal of rural communism but its organizing kernel. The village ought to correspond to the family organization. And the villages, through legislation to maintain peace, create situations of social prosperity and happiness in common life. It is a prefiguration of the perpetual peace of the Abbot of St. Pierre -- itself the model of Kant's notion".

Do any of the things sound familiar? They sound like pretty much the playbook for the left since Karl Marx put similar thoughts down on paper.

The reason I'm bringing this all up isn't to debate whether these things are good or not but instead to further explore what the connection between atheism and these sort of values are. A lot of people in this thread have written various reasons which seem sound to me but they only seem to apply mostly to SJWs of the modern sort. Here's a guy writing at the very beginning of the Modern Era who has pretty much the same values they do and it was long before there was Twitter/Facebook for you to impress your leftist college activist friends. This was also pre-French Revolution so leftism as an active movement wasn't even around yet so it's not this guy was jumping on a bandwagon. What my readings about this priest suggests to me is that there is indeed some sort of connection between atheism and SJW ideology beyond the social ones that were brought up in this thread such as virtual signalling and wanting to be a martyr for a cause (this guy if anything went really out of his way not to be one).

Post: #29

Devout Atheist and rabid anti SJW dude here.

They are not related, nothing to see here.

Post: #30

Post: #31

Being an SJW is how people prove to other people they're good.
Being an atheist is how (dumb) people prove to other people they're edgy and smart.

It's just virtue signaling, which is low investment be design.

Post: #32

Atheism is an objective worldview based on evidence (or lack thereof).

The left, especially Feminists and sjw's see it as a weapon. It enables them to dismiss any religious beliefs they don't like and easily mock them with close to zero investment. They will attack privileged religions like Christianity before ever dreaming of criticising Islam or Judaism.

There's virtue signalling as mentioned and a belief system that enables them to fully worship the state or themselves, whatever suits them really. With no God they can worship feminism or the embodiment of it - Caitlin Jenner, a matriarchal state, a golden calf whatever



A lot of notable atheist on the net like dawkins and thunderfoot hate sjw's. The latter actually makes a series of video making fun of them. I'm on the far right as an atheist and so was Ayn rand when she was alive and I can tell you we both hate socialism know what the role of women is. I doubt any of us became atheists with a motive. It was the consequence of seeking truth in the universe.

I have to imagine the end game of this is to infiltrate these religious institutions but through the strong arm of the state. In Australia at least there has been talk for a while about taxing churches. Once they get the government in there the last safe space will be done with.

This thread has potential to be an ROK article. Keep it going.

Post: #33

Many atheists simply reject anything they consider conservative and accept anything that isn't.

Objectivism is the one big elephant in the room because Rand wasn't a SJW at all. And after 9-11, many Randists made conservatives look like peaceniks. They were saying stuff like "Nuke Mecca."

One of the most interesting things is when I hear atheists reject home schooling. This is even though home schooling is a purely anti-authoritarian method of learning and something they should support. But religious people do it, so many of them reject it without thinking about it.

Post: #34

(04-16-2016 12:05 PM)puckerman Wrote:  One of the most interesting things is when I hear atheists reject home schooling. This is even though home schooling is a purely anti-authoritarian method of learning and something they should support. But religious people do it, so many of them reject it without thinking about it.

And some (a few of my friends among them) go past that blind, guilt-by-association dismissal to rejecting homeschooling precisely because it allows kids to be taught with a religious viewpoint. Their go-to assumption regarding parents who are Christian and choose to homeschool is that they are in fact authoritarians, intellectually stunting their children by limiting their education to memorizing the Bible - identifying the home school with the madrassa.

One atheist friend has repeatedly gone even further than this, telling me that kids must be taught in common public schools so as to break the grip of religious superstition over their minds and ensure that all members of society share a uniform ideological frame-of-reference in addition to common intellectual foundations.

Post: #35

The purpose of religion is to stabilize society in order to keep it marching forward. (That's what all the rules are for, no sex before marriage, don't be a homo for instance promotes child producing family units) The rise of atheism closely mirrors the first of feminism; western societies were primed for both decades ago for reasons I believe are intended to destroy. Note: I am an atheist. I thought I was an atheist because I am smarter than Christians, but the truth is I was manipulated into it.

Post: #36

(09-27-2015 04:03 PM)Wutang Wrote:  The thread on the migrant crisis was starting to into a religious debate on the relationship between atheism and all SJW causes that go along with it so I figured I'd start this thread so the discussion could continue here.

So anyone has any thoughts on why this is? I'm particularly interested in hearing from those who would consider themselves active atheists which I define it as someone who is makes their atheism a part of their identity since it would be to hear why you think your fellow co-nonreligionists (heh) behave in the way they do since I already know a lot of more traditionalist pro-religion people (who may actually not be religious themselves) are gonna chime in.

I believe it is because, the whole "active atheism/New Atheism" trend today (with Icons like Richard Dawkins and co) ties in with secular humanism.

Secular humanism originated from a "secular religion" called the Church of Humanity invented after the French Revolution by Auguste Comte as a replacement for Christianity.

Comte was more or less a socialist and a utilitarian, and his "positivist" philosophy also inspired Marxism as well. He also invented the term "altruism".

In short secular humanist atheism is to me more like a secular version of progressive Christianity, it honestly has more in common with progressive religious sects like Unitarians than it does with 'old school' existentialist atheists like Nietzsche or Anton LaVey. It more or less just replaces "god" with "science" and the creation myth in the Bible with "evolution".

(And while I'm not a political expert, I can see reasons why radical materialist views would fit in with socialism - for example if an atheist like Marx believes nothing exists other than matter and energy, then this also would mean that things such as property rights do not exist).

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/cul...1.2051387,

Post: #37

(04-16-2016 08:52 AM)[email protected] Wrote:  A lot of notable atheist on the net like dawkins and thunderfoot hate sjw's.

Dawkins? No way. The guy is one of the leading voices of SJWism in science (although like Neil DeGrasse Tyson, he hasn't done real science in decades). He even self-identifies as a feminist.

I do remember him having a quarrel with mainstream feminists after criticizing them for not taking a stand against Islamism, but that's not proof of Dawkins hating SJWs or anything like that - it's just an altercation between various factions within the Cathedral.

Revolution eats its young, as they say.

Post: #38

(04-17-2016 03:20 AM)Khan Wrote:  

(04-16-2016 08:52 AM)[email protected] Wrote:  A lot of notable atheist on the net like dawkins and thunderfoot hate sjw's.

Dawkins? No way. The guy is one of the leading voices of SJWism in science (although like Neil DeGrasse Tyson, he hasn't done real science in decades). He even self-identifies as a feminist.

I do remember him having a quarrel with mainstream feminists after criticizing them for not taking a stand against Islamism, but that's not proof of Dawkins hating SJWs or anything like that - it's just an altercation between various factions within the Cathedral.

Revolution eats its young, as they say.

Right, Dawkins is a progressive (with the possible exception of attacking Islam) - he just got chewed out by some on the fringe of the left for not being politically correct enough.

Even TF as far as I know is (or at least was) a progressive based on his earlier videos, he basically just saw the light when he got turned on by his own kind for violating their politically correct narrative.

Post: #39

I advise all your guys read this. It seems the association of the majority of Active Atheist groups with Leftism goes back a long way in history:
https://radishmag.wordpress.com/2014/09/...of-reason/

Post: #40

(04-16-2016 08:02 AM)Hades Wrote:  Being an SJW is how people prove to other people they're good.
Being an atheist is how (dumb) people prove to other people they're edgy and smart.

Hmm. My parents weren't religious so I grew up without any concept of God in my life. Therefore, belief in God is as foreign to me as a lack of belief in God is to you.

"High school" atheists and the Hitchens-reading in-your-face types of people are just assholes, but they irritate me just as much as they do you.

Post: #41

(04-17-2016 05:45 AM)Space Cowboy Wrote:  

(04-16-2016 08:02 AM)Hades Wrote:  Being an SJW is how people prove to other people they're good.
Being an atheist is how (dumb) people prove to other people they're edgy and smart.

Hmm. My parents weren't religious so I grew up without any concept of God in my life. Therefore, belief in God is as foreign to me as a lack of belief in God is to you.

"High school" atheists and the Hitchens-reading in-your-face types of people are just assholes, but they irritate me just as much as they do you.

I don't believe in God or anything either but it's not a cornerstone of my identity.

Post: #42

Few random thoughts.

(1) SJWism is, at its most fundamental, narcissism. It says that the world must give way to Me And My Special Qualities. It says that I deserve to go to the front of the queue not for what I do, but as a consequence of who I am. Buttfucker, carpetlicker, crossdresser, dograper, kiddiefiddler, it doesn't matter: I Am Special And The Main Character Of The Movie. The protagonist of a movie is invariably (thanks very much George Lucas and the consequent perversion of Campbellian monomyth) the one who changes everything, who breaks the rules, or who is not subject to the ordinary rules of society at least.

Atheism is a natural fit for the narcissist because it allows the narcissist to become their own deity as well as their own main character. Moral relativism then silences that part of the conscience that remains. I have said before that churches are only for those who worship a god other than themselves. While Christianity at large has been twisted to exaggerate the "You Are Special" message over the past forty years or more, most SJWs eventually cannot accept the pill that authentic Christianity offers. They cannot deal with the proposition that there's Someone Else who is the main character of the movie and who sets rules that you cannot break while remaining in said Someone Else's good graces.

(2) A solid proportion of active atheists are, as the title suggests, acting out. Many take one or several incidents across the vast sweep of human history and conclude that those isolated incidents justify dispensing with the entire body of religious thought. Others take a personal incident close to them -- get fucked by a priest, pastor, or nun -- and project that person onto every other religious person they see. The initial dislike starts with a single incident they find distasteful and around which an apparatus of confirmational bias is then built up to justify that continuation of the dislike.

I only make this hypothesis because I saw it happen in a somewhat different context: on ROK, in response to a proposition that single fathers are statistically better at parenting than single mothers (they are. Custodial fathers are usually a shitload more motivated to look after and bring up their kids because of their comparative rarity.) The first response was from a woman who proclaimed the generalisation "Men don't want to know about the kids after they get the divorce." The author asked for a statistical basis for this assertion; got nothing back but a rambling discussion of the woman's personal circumstances, which included that her (single) mother had been married three times and "all the single mothers I know say the fathers are all bastards."

Her rationalisation and her myopia astounded me. Despite a shitty childhood and a carousel-riding mother, she firmly held the view that all men behave that way. And she'd surrounded herself with other single mothers who confirmed her view.

I suspect any number of active atheists (by which I mean those going out and ripping up Christianity, sponsoring stupid-arse messages on the side of buses and the like) are also acting out. Any number of them are projecting childhood traumas or juvenile and unexamined observations of injustice.

I can respect the atheist who truthfully asserts he understands more about theology than the average Christian; at least he's gone to the trouble of seeking out the other side's point of view. But many atheists I've run into over the years think that reading one book by Dawkins makes you a philosopher, and many more atheists pick and choose those parts of theology they don't like without considering the whole in context.

(3) I suspect a number of SJWs are also seeking to fill the spiritual void of their lives with something else to make their existence worth it. They might proclaim themselves atheists by way of virtue-signalling or to stay in the clique that gives them their identity, but especially late-teen SJWs are still unconsciously looking for something to paper over the panic that rises when they consider meaningless oblivion as a concept. Atheism is a cover for their own insecurities.

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #43

(04-17-2016 06:26 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  (3) I suspect a number of SJWs are also seeking to fill the spiritual void of their lives with something else to make their existence worth it. They might proclaim themselves atheists by way of virtue-signalling or to stay in the clique that gives them their identity, but especially late-teen SJWs are still unconsciously looking for something to paper over the panic that rises when they consider meaningless oblivion as a concept. Atheism is a cover for their own insecurities.

I'd go even further and claim that SJWism is a religion per se.

Modern liberals treat organized religion as scientifically unfounded nonsense. They don't believe in God, but they do believe in one or more of the following:

- feminism: men and women were created equal and should have equal rights (but not responsibilities);
- socialism: economy is a zero-sum game in which the only way to get ahead of others is to steal from them, therefore the state should be all-encompassing and intervene wherever possible;
- democracy: every problem in society can be solved by a system of government in which the average Joe gets the right to vote. This system of government is also the best ever invented by mankind;
- Christianity is an evil, oppressing religion that has held mankind in the dark for centuries (every other religion is of course wonderful by definition);
- vegetarianism: killing animals for food is evil and immoral;
- global warming: if a conglomerate of world governments, supranational organizations and scientists who've never set foot in the real world doesn't solve a problem which apparently isn't such a big deal afterall, we'll all drown;
- multiculturalism: settling millions of third world refugees in developed Western countries will enrich and improve these societies;
- genderism & sodomy: sexes don't exist and homosexualism is a perfectly acceptable form of sexual behavior;

etc etc. When you look at that list - and I believe an average Western liberal nowadays believes in the validity of almost all points listed above, if not more - you'll see that SJWs are actually quite religious. They've just replaced their belief in God (which they view as scientifically unfounded nonsense) with a series of beliefs in assorted liberal crap. And liberalism (and everything associated) is scientifically unfounded nonsense, but no SJW has the mental capacity to realize this.

In my view, debating with an SJW wouldn't be much different from debating with one of those lunatics who believe Earth is flat.