Post: #26

(09-25-2015 06:42 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(09-25-2015 05:39 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

(09-25-2015 05:23 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(09-24-2015 05:38 PM)kaotic Wrote:  I know you probably can't stand Islam and is seen at the bottom of the barrel but hey it's still shares history with the other 2 major ones, that make the trinity of religions.

Not really. Islam just piggy backs on on the main faith and keeps killing people until they are forced to acknowledge them as "legitimate."

Sounds an awful like some other religions out there.....

Guess we'll have to disagree on that one and leave it be.

Islam's wars of conquest have a death toll that easily dwarf any other religion on the planet. You're in denial.

Sam I'm not in denial of anything man, I agree they have a high death toll, I'm also saying their hands aren't the only ones covered in blood. The tri-religion ALL have blood on their hands.

I don't want to turn this into some flame war thread. It's all good.

Post: #27

My athiest ethics remind me that some of these religious groups have never really had free choices in their personal belief, their destiny was therefore predetermined, what a waste of time and life
Being crushed and suffocating to death would be hideous...poor buggers

Post: #28

People are throwing stones at glass homes. Modern western civilization is rife with religious and pagen bullshit woven into everyday lives.

Why do we celebrate Christmas?

Why do we by and were wedding bands?

Standing and sitting for higher (authority) figures?

Wearing black at funerals?

We do a lot of odd stuff in the west that makes lotltee sense either. Islam isn't to be single out here.

The Saudis will continue to waste money paying Euro consultants to help then with a unique problem only they can fix. Typical Gulf trap or trying to put money to a problem. Tell me who om earth would have the expertise of event and crowd control to handle millions of people in such a short period and small area? Nothing can match that scale on earth it is 100% unique and on the Haj. Saudis need to develop thier own system and plan and not have situations where some Mullah VIP shows upnans you attempt to roll out the red carpet in a sea of humanity. What a tragedy, all caused by mammoth levels of foolishness.

Look at that ugly hotel they built then sold off to Fairmont resorts to run. That thing is ugly as hell and wi be forever in photos of the Haj for history now. That complex probably cost a billion dollars + and looks like it belongs in Atlantic City.

Post: #29

(09-24-2015 02:35 PM)Soma Wrote:  Back when Vice sucked less they did a Hajj mini-documentary with footage founder Suroosh Alvi snuck out. Thought it was interesting and gives an idea what it's really like on the ground there.

Frankly when looking through the footage I see lack of organizational skills in the Saudi administration. Throwing billions at it alone won't solve it - they should hire infidels from the West to show them how it's best done and how to hire the right people - probably infidels too.

When you have a stable flow of people, then it is not overly difficult to control large crowds. Usually only unforeseen unusual crowds like street concerts/rallies stress the Western governments' organizational skills. When you have a daily inflow of them, then you can properly contain even unruly rioters and keep them in check (football stadiums in Germany as an example).

But what can you expect from them - even at the so-called height of the Muslim empire they relied heavily on the external scientists and scholars that were often kidnapped from Western countries. Even most of their military success was based on the fact that they were motivated by conquest and unified large numbers of people while the Christians were highly divided and fighting against each other. It wasn't exactly a technologically superior culture.

Post: #30

(09-25-2015 06:58 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

(09-25-2015 06:42 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(09-25-2015 05:39 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

(09-25-2015 05:23 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(09-24-2015 05:38 PM)kaotic Wrote:  I know you probably can't stand Islam and is seen at the bottom of the barrel but hey it's still shares history with the other 2 major ones, that make the trinity of religions.

Not really. Islam just piggy backs on on the main faith and keeps killing people until they are forced to acknowledge them as "legitimate."

Sounds an awful like some other religions out there.....

Guess we'll have to disagree on that one and leave it be.

Islam's wars of conquest have a death toll that easily dwarf any other religion on the planet. You're in denial.

Sam I'm not in denial of anything man, I agree they have a high death toll, I'm also saying their hands aren't the only ones covered in blood. The tri-religion ALL have blood on their hands.

I don't want to turn this into some flame war thread. It's all good.

I'm not flaming you, I'm trying to make you aware. The idea that since ALL of the religions have blood on their hands makes them equivalent has got to be one of the worst arguments you could use. It's the logical fallacy of false equivocation.

It's like saying the invention of the engine have lead to cars and tanks. Both tanks and cars have killed people, therefore cars are as dangerous as tanks.