Post: #1

Apologies if in the wrong section or if the title is insufficient.

Not happening to me or anyone I know but I am wondering what happens if:

You are the traveling and conceive a child. Let's say not in a country that has some agreement with the country you are from about child support. I am from the U.S. so I will use that.

If I conceive a child, and it can be proven to be mine, I will provide for it. This isn't some debate about she should this or that.

And because it does not have an agreement in place, ie ukraine or Russia (I think). I can provide what I think is necessary. Not be dictated to on how much to provide. But because I am a US citizen. My child has the right to claim his or her US citizenship. That would make it easier for the mother to obtain citizenship right?

Let's say that happens and then they move to the U.S. then the normal laws about child support etc go into effect right?

Wondering if my logic is off.

Thanks.

Post: #2

Good question. I've wondered about this as well, but can't seem to stop raw dogging.

With all the threads about dudes impregnating girls abroad you'd think every RVF'er would be a master at pulling out by now

Post: #3

For the US, a child born overseas is automatically a citizen only if the mother is a US citizen. If only the father is a US citizen, it's more complicated:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nguyen_v._INS

Post: #4

Thanks jasond!

Hope all is well.

Post: #5

And what about child support?

Doesn't the US have child support enforcement treaties with a number of countries out there? Granted, these are mostly Western/European countries, but I think that point should be brought up.

What does the picture look like if the child was born in a country that does NOT have an existing child support treaty with the US?

Post: #6

shitty for the child

Post: #7

(09-22-2015 10:52 AM)CleanSlate Wrote:  And what about child support?

Doesn't the US have child support enforcement treaties with a number of countries out there? Granted, these are mostly Western/European countries, but I think that point should be brought up.

What does the picture look like if the child was born in a country that does NOT have an existing child support treaty with the US?

I mentioned it briefly in my post that there are some countries that have agreements with the US. My example was outside of this countries. I'm not a person who would not take care of my own. But I am not interested in having demands made on my resources especially since I live very reasonably. But my kid would never starve or lack shelter or anything reasonable. Just wanted to know if there was some crazy process that leads to this kid and eventually his Mom becoming US citizens and making demands.

I'd make sure everything was in place for the kid to get his citizenship before 18.

Post: #8

Well, when I was reading Travesty's wife hunting thread, I was thinking of starting a new thread about having kids with women outside of the US and outside of marriage. I was hesitant to start that thread because the morality of it would probably be hotly debated. But you started a similar thread, so I might as well bring it up here.

As an American man, given the state of our society today, our options are basically:

1. Wife up in America, pop out a few kids, and risk getting fucked over in a divorce with years of child support payments and possibly alimony, or...

2. Don't every marry and don't ever have kids.

This and Travesty's thread brings up a third option:

3. Knock up a foreign woman, but don't marry her. Agree to visit and support the kid on your own terms.

This 3rd option may be possible in countries that do NOT have a child support treaty with the US.

In those countries that do have an agreement with the US, they can use the treaty to force you to pay child support... this is essentially the same as option 1 above, which is different from what I'm getting at...

Let's say you travel to some third world country and you knock up some chick over there... you could either bail on them both, which would be a dick move in my opinion. Or you could foster a location independent lifestyle with a portable business and visit them once every few months, give them the financial and familial support they need, while the mother and her family raise the kid on a day to day basis.

The risks or cons with this option are:

1. The kid won't grow up in your own culture. This may or may not be a deal breaker for you, but for one, I do NOT want my kid growing up in the Western world. The last thing I want is to add another spoiled and entitled kid who expects a silver spoon every minute of his or her life.

I prefer my kid to have all the basics covered - food, shelter, clothing - but not much else. This way, they will be hungry... not for food, but more in the sense that they will be more motivated to learn and educate themselves, be teachable and coachable, and develop the traits that will make them successful in whatever they want to do. There has to be a balance here... not too deep in poverty that they turn to crime or drugs, but not too rich that they get spoiled.

2. There is always a chance that the woman could cut you off, and you never see the kid again. Now THAT would suck. Maybe to forestall that risk, tell the woman that you'll work on getting the kid an US citizenship when he turns 18. What woman would not want that for her child?

However, the benefit of option 3 is you get to pass on your genes, without subjecting yourself to the downsides of marriage, forced child support, and probable divorce.

Thoughts?

Post: #9

As you get older, you will realize knocking up a foreign girl overseas is not the way to go.

Yes, a kid needs money but it doesn't need occasional visits from you. It needs YOU there on a constant basis to be a positive role model in their life.

I have travelled a lot and seen far too many kids like this around the place. A lot of these kids suffer badly, I wouldn't want my kid to suffer.

You might feel differently.

Post: #10

(09-22-2015 02:39 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  You might feel differently.

I don't I would feel differently. That would be another major con to that 3rd option.

Trouble is, I can't think of any other options if I wanted to have kids. We're in an unfavorable environment for fatherhood.

Post: #11

4. Settle down abroad, create your own family abroad. Marry or don't, it's up to you. Learn your new country's language and integrate into the new society and never return to the states or subject your family to western culture.

Post: #12

(09-22-2015 04:48 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  Apologies if in the wrong section or if the title is insufficient.

Not happening to me or anyone I know but I am wondering what happens if:

You are the traveling and conceive a child. Let's say not in a country that has some agreement with the country you are from about child support. I am from the U.S. so I will use that.

If I conceive a child, and it can be proven to be mine, I will provide for it. This isn't some debate about she should this or that.

And because it does not have an agreement in place, ie ukraine or Russia (I think). I can provide what I think is necessary. Not be dictated to on how much to provide. But because I am a US citizen. My child has the right to claim his or her US citizenship. That would make it easier for the mother to obtain citizenship right?

Let's say that happens and then they move to the U.S. then the normal laws about child support etc go into effect right?

Wondering if my logic is off.

Thanks.

A U.S. state could and would have jurisdiction over child support if both the child and the mother moved here and lived in the state for a period of time (possibly six months or a year or something). As far as the "citizenship" thing, the mother would be able to be able to apply for residency if the child is a United States citizen and is over the age of 21. If the mother is granted residency status, she could then apply for citizenship five years after being granted residency (possibly after three years after becoming a resident if during that time she is married to a citizen). People often don't understand that in most cases, before becoming a U.S. citizen, you must be a lawful permanent resident alien for a period of time.

Post: #13

Best thing to do is to contact the embassy or consulate in said country and find out the exact details. Each country has different procedures in dealing with this matter.

As for bringing your significant other. You will be the "guarantor". In Canada that means you are on the hook for her for 2 years if you separate before a certain time of living together in Canada. ( I believe it's 3 years) but best is to check. So, if she goes on welfare, claims social housing. Your wages are garnished and you are paying these benefits to her via the government. Of course, each country is different. As for paying child support, I guess you are on the hook as well.

Post: #14

Quote:However, the benefit of option 3 is you get to pass on your genes, without subjecting yourself to the downsides of marriage, forced child support, and probable divorce.

If passing on your genes is your main concern, become a sperm donor.

The bad thing about that is that your kids might end up with two short haired lesbian moms.

Post: #15

(09-22-2015 03:31 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

(09-22-2015 02:39 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  You might feel differently.

I don't I would feel differently. That would be another major con to that 3rd option.

Trouble is, I can't think of any other options if I wanted to have kids. We're in an unfavorable environment for fatherhood.

Agreed, I think NomadofEU has the best option.

Find a country you like, find a girl and make a go of it. At my age I don't like to take chances, not the kind that could cost me dearly.

A lot of countries I have been too, the girls just want a nice guy that will be loyal to them. Compare that to girls where I live who want a princess cut diamond ring.

Post: #16

(09-22-2015 04:27 PM)tomtud Wrote:  Best thing to do is to contact the embassy or consulate in said country and find out the exact details. Each country has different procedures in dealing with this matter.

As for bringing your significant other. You will be the "guarantor". In Canada that means you are on the hook for her for 2 years if you separate before a certain time of living together in Canada. ( I believe it's 3 years) but best is to check. So, if she goes on welfare, claims social housing. Your wages are garnished and you are paying these benefits to her via the government. Of course, each country is different. As for paying child support, I guess you are on the hook as well.

There's no way to have her kicked out of the country if she would dump the guarantor and decide to live on welfare?

Post: #17

Sounds like if you are not a guarantor then they can't come over unless they find chump to bring them over.

Seems like the biggest issue is if she finds a way to get to the U.S. without your help. But still would have to prove (i hope that her word is not good enough) that you are the father to start getting anything.

Post: #18

(09-22-2015 03:54 PM)NomadofEU Wrote:  4. Settle down abroad, create your own family abroad. Marry or don't, it's up to you. Learn your new country's language and integrate into the new society and never return to the states or subject your family to western culture.

This is basically my plan, if I ever decide I want kids/family.

I'll go somewhere poor in southeast Asia (since I'm already permanently Asia based) and buy a village and knock up the hottest woman/women there.

Since I will be the employer of everyone in the village (and will give them all jobs), I'll be sure to put a couple of the cool kids in charge of bullying my youngsters so that they don't turn out soft.

I'll build a local primary school for my children and fly in all the best instructors from around the world for lectures and various short courses, while providing a balanced daily education in reading, writing and 'rithmetic.

Various options will be considered for high school and post-secondary education.

Post: #19

(09-22-2015 03:54 PM)NomadofEU Wrote:  4. Settle down abroad, create your own family abroad. Marry or don't, it's up to you. Learn your new country's language and integrate into the new society and never return to the states or subject your family to western culture.

This is IMO the best option. Don't cut ties with your family in the Western world, but live and raise a family abroad, in a country not spoiled by feminism and spoon-feeding.

Post: #20

(09-22-2015 03:54 PM)NomadofEU Wrote:  4. Settle down abroad, create your own family abroad. Marry or don't, it's up to you. Learn your new country's language and integrate into the new society and never return to the states or subject your family to western culture.

For location independent guys the bicultural existence is pretty much the reality. You can't live in the west and expect to have your cake and eat it too. You can certainly take your wife to the U.S. and settle down somewhere. However, the problem still falls on two main issues..trust of your spouse and the impact western culture will have on your kids. The first one might not be such a problem with guys who vet their foreign wives carefully but..the second is a total crapshoot.

I see nothing remotely positive about raising kids in the west. I'd prefer to shell out money and have them in the international school system and keep an eye on their upbringing than raise them in the anti-male/whorecentric west. This goes doubly for female children..I don't want them anywhere near western feminist rhetoric or its toxic effect.

Post: #21

Post: #22

(09-28-2015 09:59 AM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

(09-22-2015 03:54 PM)NomadofEU Wrote:  4. Settle down abroad, create your own family abroad. Marry or don't, it's up to you. Learn your new country's language and integrate into the new society and never return to the states or subject your family to western culture.

For location independent guys the bicultural existence is pretty much the reality. You can't live in the west and expect to have your cake and eat it too. You can certainly take your wife to the U.S. and settle down somewhere. However, the problem still falls on two main issues..trust of your spouse and the impact western culture will have on your kids. The first one might not be such a problem with guys who vet their foreign wives carefully but..the second is a total crapshoot.

I see nothing remotely positive about raising kids in the west. I'd prefer to shell out money and have them in the international school system and keep an eye on their upbringing than raise them in the anti-male/whorecentric west. This goes doubly for female children..I don't want them anywhere near western feminist rhetoric or its toxic effect.

I totally agree but re the "international school system" private route it's tricky (and expensive). From what I hear a lot of these schools are just as much if not even more SJWish than back home, and see themselves as "bastions of civility" in most foreign 2nd and 3rd world countries (as opposed to the anti-family, PC / Feminist-centric destructive things they really are). As an example, my buddy told me the other day that a lot of the male teachers in his kid's international school are gay.

So I think we need to be careful here and some form of home schooling is increasingly looking like an option (combined with some basic schooling (math, science, biology etc) + lots and lots of tutors and parental hands-on teaching).

To the OP's question (which is a very good one) I don't think if you marry someone outside the US or Anglosphere country yet that they can get back at you due to US laws, but who knows. US extraterritorial judicial overreach is getting crazy and it seems we are well and truly trying to police the world sometimes.

At a minimum I'm planning one either not getting married or if I'm forced to do it having it done outside the West, and just living abroad but going back home from time to time. Have to figure out re the visa thing for the gf/bride I guess (which is getting harder and harder from what I've heard).

Post: #23

(09-22-2015 02:39 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  As you get older, you will realize knocking up a foreign girl overseas is not the way to go.

Yes, a kid needs money but it doesn't need occasional visits from you. It needs YOU there on a constant basis to be a positive role model in their life.

I have travelled a lot and seen far too many kids like this around the place. A lot of these kids suffer badly, I wouldn't want my kid to suffer.

You might feel differently.

First, I want to say I'm not attacking you for what you're saying here. It's completely understandable any western person would say it because it's a common "western" belief that a missing Father is the reason kids turn out badly.

However, that statement is really feminist propaganda used to both fault men and absolve feminist women in one fell swoop. It's been so ingrained into our culture for the past 40+ years that it just seems right and natural to say.

That's how powerful cultural programming is.

If we look at how the family unit was 100 years ago and more we will see how the Father's role was really as provider and disciplinarian for the family and not much else. Not playing with the kids, educating them, reading them bedtime stories and all the Motherly activities that are thrust on modern day men today.

But let me use my own life as an example.

I was raised by a hard-core, early feminist Mother who put more importance on her career, drinking, and man-eating then she did on being a nurturing Mother.

While my Father bailed early-on, he did occasionally visit. These visits were wonderful for us kids, and when we were old enough we were able to pursue a relationship with him without our hateful, envious Mother's interference.

Growing up I was taught our Father's absence was the reason for all the negativity in our home-life. It couldn't possibly be because our Mother was so self-absorbed with her own unconscious, feminist agenda.

This teaching wasn't just coming from our Mother, but was also coming from then-current TV shows and movies.

It wasn't until I was older and able to reflect that I realized the parent who is there actually has the most influence on the happiness of the home, than the parent who isn't even around to have any kind of affect on it.

Seems logical doesn't it? However, it seems people in western society believe the opposite!

Logically, the parent and family member's who are there have 100% all the influence on how the kid turns out. After all, how can someone that's not there have any impact on events?

Of course having a good Father who's around and is given power over his child more than that of an every-other weekend babysitter is a great asset, but having a good woman who will be a good, nurturing Mother is the most important factor on how a child turns out.

A child will always seek out masculine role models to fill any void, whether it's an Uncle, Grandfather, Teacher, or Sports Coach.

Post: #24

^I hear what you are saying.

I will say my statement is based out of arrogance more than any western belief. I just feel I would do a better job in raising a child than most, I don't have faith in western women when it comes to raising children. It has been discussed here at length, I just feel many are too selfish and don't want the "burden" until it is too late.

I have spent a lot of time around Eastern European women, I once dated a single mother from that region. She was a great mother, very nurturing and disciplined her child when needed. She like many women in that region, simply love children. That's all she talked about, in fact she wanted more and use to chastise me about not wanting any (at the time).

Contrast that to girls I have dated in Canada. My longest relationship was with a girl who did not want kids, once she had stronger feelings for me. She asked me once if she had a kid, "who would take care of IT?". The girl I dated afterwards was also a nut job, only when she reached close to 40 and long after we had broken up. She called me telling me she wanted a child, I laughed and asked her what about her age.

One could argue, that a child will always seek out feminine role models as well.

I just feel children are more well adjusted when they have both parents in their lives.

Post: #25

Rudebwoy, I concur with a child needing both parents in their life hence the term parents as it takes two to conceive. Western civilisation has made great bounds in technology development but they have been stagnated for at least 30 years now when it comes to raising well rounded individuals.