Post: #26

jcrew247:
"But I wonder if Mormons are okay with inter-racial marriages (as long as the man is also Mormon)?"

For the most part I guess it would depend on what cultures where marrying. I'm Hispanic and was married to a Filipina and my parents where fine with it. I do have an acquaintance who is white that told me her parents might not like it if she was to marry the black South African she was seeing. As far as I know they're engaged and no one has really said anything about it.

Mikan:
" For a Mormon of either gender to become an apostate is to essentially divorce their entire family, minus any other apostates. Even Mormon apostates outside Utah tend to form social groups of all Mormon apostates, they are really that insular."

This hasn't really been my experience, growing up in the in the Midwest if you went inactive you basically disappeared into the background with all of the other Protestants and Catholics who became either "in name only" or weren't religious at all. The whole being shunned by your family is mainly a Utah thing these days.

Post: #27

I'm happy with traditional Catholic girls. Same benefits, less weird baggage and cult behavior.

Post: #28

(08-15-2016 07:20 PM)weambulance Wrote:  Mormon girls seem like good prospects, but they're fundamentally damaged by the mind fucking their religion gives them. Ex mormon girls are as well, just in a different way, and they bring a lot of the same family baggage practicing mormon girls have as well.

Look into how incredibly involved mormons are in their church, consider the expectations placed on mormons by their community (it's a fucking shitload of time commitment and money), and think about the stress it's going to bring on your mormon wife if people are constantly wondering why her husband is not part of the community. I've seen it. It's not pretty. It is very stressful on all members of the family, including the kids.

As I've said before in various places on this forum, mormons, while generally nice, law abiding, productive people who make good allies, should absolutely be viewed as a separate insular tribe by the rest of us. I assure you they view the rest of us as outsiders, and we're never going to be anything but outsiders unless we convert.

You want to get seriously, formally involved with a mormon, you'd better plan on converting and abiding by the rules. Otherwise, you're inviting a lot of trouble and pain.

Just my opinion, based on my fairly extensive experience with mormons, dating ex mormons with still practicing family members, and seriously investigating a long term relationship with a nice mormon girl a couple years ago when I was wife hunting.

It was pretty annoying coming to these conclusions, though. The vast majority of women I've met in the last decade that I thought were clear wife material were mormons. The rest were rural small town girls, and I've never found a reliable way of meeting them before they get corrupted or married without actively going hunting on the road.

What do you expect? You want all of the trappings of chastisty, good wife material, and the framework of a Christian marriage without actually being in the community?

I hate to break it to you, but even in the 1950s if you wanted to marry a good Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist, Mormon, etc the girls and their parents expected you to be part of that denomination's community and believe what the community believes. They can smell lip servers a mile away so don't even try.

Women are water and take the shape of the community they're in. Christian communities are 100% the reason why these women are marriagable material and continue to stay in their marriages once they tie the knot.

If you want to get married and have the benefits of operating in a Christian marriage framework you have to drink the kool-aid and believe it. Otherwise your relationship and marriage will fail, not because the wife wanted to "experiment" or some nonesense but because you weren't able to live up to the expectations required of you by the Bible. There's more to it than just showing up.

On a side note, this is also the reason why women from traditional cultures lose their "traditionalness" and get westernized. The men importing them into the west don't put them into social groups that keep them on the straight and steady. They'll shower these women in luxury, take them on stupidly expensive vacations, and give them an Amex platinum card for the mall. No wonder these women go crazy!

If you marry a traditional women, taking her to a good traditional church (no gays, no female clergy) will keep her in the marriage. She'll make friends with other women who are family centric. Finally, keep the trappings of wealth modest, control the purse strings, and follow game 101.

My biggest red flag is a women who yearns for expensive things and tries to coyly get me to enable her to get them. A woman like this is not marriage material.

Does this all work 100%? No, nothing is certain but you can mitigate these chances by keeping expectations moderate and by putting yourself and her into boring middle of the road social groups.

Marriage is about building families, not about being fast and glitzy.
If you're getting married, the last place you should be looking at is nightlife.

Post: #29

Mormons also tend to be fucking loaded, so they can easily afford plastic surgery.

They're like Jews if Jews actually believed in God/Bible

Post: #30

(08-16-2016 04:34 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(08-15-2016 07:20 PM)weambulance Wrote:  Mormon girls seem like good prospects, but they're fundamentally damaged by the mind fucking their religion gives them. Ex mormon girls are as well, just in a different way, and they bring a lot of the same family baggage practicing mormon girls have as well.

Look into how incredibly involved mormons are in their church, consider the expectations placed on mormons by their community (it's a fucking shitload of time commitment and money), and think about the stress it's going to bring on your mormon wife if people are constantly wondering why her husband is not part of the community. I've seen it. It's not pretty. It is very stressful on all members of the family, including the kids.

As I've said before in various places on this forum, mormons, while generally nice, law abiding, productive people who make good allies, should absolutely be viewed as a separate insular tribe by the rest of us. I assure you they view the rest of us as outsiders, and we're never going to be anything but outsiders unless we convert.

You want to get seriously, formally involved with a mormon, you'd better plan on converting and abiding by the rules. Otherwise, you're inviting a lot of trouble and pain.

Just my opinion, based on my fairly extensive experience with mormons, dating ex mormons with still practicing family members, and seriously investigating a long term relationship with a nice mormon girl a couple years ago when I was wife hunting.

It was pretty annoying coming to these conclusions, though. The vast majority of women I've met in the last decade that I thought were clear wife material were mormons. The rest were rural small town girls, and I've never found a reliable way of meeting them before they get corrupted or married without actively going hunting on the road.

What do you expect? You want all of the trappings of chastisty, good wife material, and the framework of a Christian marriage without actually being in the community?

I hate to break it to you, but even in the 1950s if you wanted to marry a good Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist, Mormon, etc the girls and their parents expected you to be part of that denomination's community and believe what the community believes. They can smell lip servers a mile away so don't even try.

Women are water and take the shape of the community they're in. Christian communities are 100% the reason why these women are marriagable material and continue to stay in their marriages once they tie the knot.

If you want to get married and have the benefits of operating in a Christian marriage framework you have to drink the kool-aid and believe it. Otherwise your relationship and marriage will fail, not because the wife wanted to "experiment" or some nonesense but because you weren't able to live up to the expectations required of you by the Bible. There's more to it than just showing up.

On a side note, this is also the reason why women from traditional cultures lose their "traditionalness" and get westernized. The men importing them into the west don't put them into social groups that keep them on the straight and steady. They'll shower these women in luxury, take them on stupidly expensive vacations, and give them an Amex platinum card for the mall. No wonder these women go crazy!

If you marry a traditional women, taking her to a good traditional church (no gays, no female clergy) will keep her in the marriage. She'll make friends with other women who are family centric. Finally, keep the trappings of wealth modest, control the purse strings, and follow game 101.

My biggest red flag is a women who yearns for expensive things and tries to coyly get me to enable her to get them. A woman like this is not marriage material.

Does this all work 100%? No, nothing is certain but you can mitigate these chances by keeping expectations moderate and by putting yourself and her into boring middle of the road social groups.

Marriage is about building families, not about being fast and glitzy.
If you're getting married, the last place you should be looking at is nightlife.

I guess you made a bunch of incorrect assumptions about what I meant, but okay.

Mormonism isn't just another branch of Christianity. It's a whole 'nother ball of wax. And that was what I was attempting to get across.

And no, if I marry a woman I do not intend to let her community take over my whole freaking life, which is exactly what happens when you become an active member of the mormon church. She can join my community, thank you very much.

Post: #31

^Wow, super interesting post by Mikan. Thanks.

Post: #32

(08-16-2016 10:52 AM)weambulance Wrote:  

(08-16-2016 04:34 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(08-15-2016 07:20 PM)weambulance Wrote:  Mormon girls seem like good prospects, but they're fundamentally damaged by the mind fucking their religion gives them. Ex mormon girls are as well, just in a different way, and they bring a lot of the same family baggage practicing mormon girls have as well.

Look into how incredibly involved mormons are in their church, consider the expectations placed on mormons by their community (it's a fucking shitload of time commitment and money), and think about the stress it's going to bring on your mormon wife if people are constantly wondering why her husband is not part of the community. I've seen it. It's not pretty. It is very stressful on all members of the family, including the kids.

As I've said before in various places on this forum, mormons, while generally nice, law abiding, productive people who make good allies, should absolutely be viewed as a separate insular tribe by the rest of us. I assure you they view the rest of us as outsiders, and we're never going to be anything but outsiders unless we convert.

You want to get seriously, formally involved with a mormon, you'd better plan on converting and abiding by the rules. Otherwise, you're inviting a lot of trouble and pain.

Just my opinion, based on my fairly extensive experience with mormons, dating ex mormons with still practicing family members, and seriously investigating a long term relationship with a nice mormon girl a couple years ago when I was wife hunting.

It was pretty annoying coming to these conclusions, though. The vast majority of women I've met in the last decade that I thought were clear wife material were mormons. The rest were rural small town girls, and I've never found a reliable way of meeting them before they get corrupted or married without actively going hunting on the road.

What do you expect? You want all of the trappings of chastisty, good wife material, and the framework of a Christian marriage without actually being in the community?

I hate to break it to you, but even in the 1950s if you wanted to marry a good Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist, Mormon, etc the girls and their parents expected you to be part of that denomination's community and believe what the community believes. They can smell lip servers a mile away so don't even try.

Women are water and take the shape of the community they're in. Christian communities are 100% the reason why these women are marriagable material and continue to stay in their marriages once they tie the knot.

If you want to get married and have the benefits of operating in a Christian marriage framework you have to drink the kool-aid and believe it. Otherwise your relationship and marriage will fail, not because the wife wanted to "experiment" or some nonesense but because you weren't able to live up to the expectations required of you by the Bible. There's more to it than just showing up.

On a side note, this is also the reason why women from traditional cultures lose their "traditionalness" and get westernized. The men importing them into the west don't put them into social groups that keep them on the straight and steady. They'll shower these women in luxury, take them on stupidly expensive vacations, and give them an Amex platinum card for the mall. No wonder these women go crazy!

If you marry a traditional women, taking her to a good traditional church (no gays, no female clergy) will keep her in the marriage. She'll make friends with other women who are family centric. Finally, keep the trappings of wealth modest, control the purse strings, and follow game 101.

My biggest red flag is a women who yearns for expensive things and tries to coyly get me to enable her to get them. A woman like this is not marriage material.

Does this all work 100%? No, nothing is certain but you can mitigate these chances by keeping expectations moderate and by putting yourself and her into boring middle of the road social groups.

Marriage is about building families, not about being fast and glitzy.
If you're getting married, the last place you should be looking at is nightlife.

I guess you made a bunch of incorrect assumptions about what I meant, but okay.

Mormonism isn't just another branch of Christianity. It's a whole 'nother ball of wax. And that was what I was attempting to get across.

And no, if I marry a woman I do not intend to let her community take over my whole freaking life, which is exactly what happens when you become an active member of the mormon church. She can join my community, thank you very much.

My bad bud, i was speaking to the whole group.

Regardless, if you want a chaste, christian, family oriented virgin, you need to be apart of a group that promotes those values and believe what their group speaks or invite her to a similar group with near identical values.

Just make sure your community matches up with what she's used to mores and values wise and you'll be fine.

Post: #33

(08-15-2016 07:33 PM)Mikan Wrote:  I had a Mormon acquaintance in college and he explained the male/female balance to me this way. The early still-polygamous culture of the LDS wouldn't work unless you found some way to skew the gender ratio, as births will, as we know, produce only slightly more females. When polygamy was abolished by the LDS church, they didn't really substantially cut back on the methods they developed to get the gender balance they needed for the elders to have teenage harems. Lets not fool ourselves on what this was all about; adding anther 15 year old to a powerful church elders harem every few years.

The main way they achieved this was simply getting rid of young men at the times in their lives when they would normally be pairing up and starting families. Missionary work is the most visible example of this. Most of us have probably personally encountered these fellows (and they are always men) in non-Mormon areas. Another way was to make them seek work outside the Provo valley. Its not that there wasn't a need for strong young men in a largely agricultural settlement, quite the opposite. Since all the land owners were also LDS elders, they just wouldn't hire them so they had to seek work, usually skilled trades, outside Utah. The requirement to tithe was of course not removed. After a decade or so of working on the railroad or construction in California or elsewhere they might try their luck with starting a family back in Utah, or try to find a women to convert where they are and start a family. Many of the Mormon communities outside Utah started this way. If these things didn't provide the desired ratio there was always excommunication.

In modern times the cultural habit of young men leaving Utah is still in place via missionary and occupational pursuits but also college. Higher education is not particularly encouraged for Moron women but isn't forbidden. So young Mormon men are still growing up in a culture where its considered normal to physically leave the Provo valley for a number of reasons, and the rest of the world is pretty tempting; many of them don't return. Whether they stay with LDS and build a life outside of Utah, just sort of drift away from the LDS church or become formally apostates, the end result is the imbalance witnessed back in the Mormon heartland.

The women, naturally risk averse and incurious about the world, tend to stick around. It usually takes an event of abuse or trauma to spur them into leaving the church or the area.

The comments of weambulance above also match my experiences. For a Mormon of either gender to become an apostate is to essentially divorce their entire family, minus any other apostates. Even Mormon apostates outside Utah tend to form social groups of all Mormon apostates, they are really that insular.

One small correction: natural sex imbalances at birth produce more boys than girls--usually a 105/100 ratio.

But otherwise a great post. And if anyone wants more info about the forced sex imbalances in the Mormon church, particularly in the FLDS, read up on the so-called "Lost Boys". Really interesting stuff...and often heartbreaking.

Post: #34

(08-16-2016 11:03 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  My bad bud, i was speaking to the whole group.

Regardless, if you want a chaste, christian, family oriented virgin, you need to be apart of a group that promotes those values and believe what their group speaks or invite her to a similar group with near identical values.

Just make sure your community matches up with what she's used to mores and values wise and you'll be fine.

Another reason I probably can't have another LTR or even the thought of marriage or children.

I just can't follow or really care for religion, it's just not my thing I guess. I don't knock it one bit, it isn't perfect and neither are humans.

Usually family oriented virgins and good girls come from a good religious family.

I'd say I'm a decent guy, I could work on my morals (If I find the right woman).

Post: #35

(08-16-2016 11:32 AM)kaotic Wrote:  

(08-16-2016 11:03 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  My bad bud, i was speaking to the whole group.

Regardless, if you want a chaste, christian, family oriented virgin, you need to be apart of a group that promotes those values and believe what their group speaks or invite her to a similar group with near identical values.

Just make sure your community matches up with what she's used to mores and values wise and you'll be fine.

Another reason I probably can't have another LTR or even the thought of marriage or children.

I just can't follow or really care for religion, it's just not my thing I guess. I don't knock it one bit, it isn't perfect and neither are humans.

Usually family oriented virgins and good girls come from a good religious family.

I'd say I'm a decent guy, I could work on my morals (If I find the right woman).

I'm in the same boat. My best solution so far is to focus on mostly good girls (raised religious but not nearly as into as before, from stable traditional homes, raised by foreign parents, etc) AND make sure you live in a state or place where you have as much legal, financial, and cultural leverage as possible when doing the family thing.

In the US and really anywhere for that matter, one of the most important things is to live in a state with favorable to the provider as possible child support and divorce laws. I went into detail about this subject in another post for those interested. For me, there are only a handful of states I would ever consider having a family in base on child support/divorce laws alone.

Post: #36

(08-15-2016 10:28 PM)TheUsual Wrote:  Mikan:
" For a Mormon of either gender to become an apostate is to essentially divorce their entire family, minus any other apostates. Even Mormon apostates outside Utah tend to form social groups of all Mormon apostates, they are really that insular."

This hasn't really been my experience, growing up in the in the Midwest if you went inactive you basically disappeared into the background with all of the other Protestants and Catholics who became either "in name only" or weren't religious at all. The whole being shunned by your family is mainly a Utah thing these days.

I'm probably a bit older than a lot of the posters here, most of my information is first hand stories from Utah based true believers from the 70s and 80s. I've likely met midwestern Mormons and had no idea. Unlike most people (I imagine) I actually talked to the missionaries when I lived in a city. I'm fascinated by their drive and I enjoy seeing how their pitch has evolved over the years.

The individual I received most of my information about Mormon life from was born and raised in the SLC area and only left because he couldn't find a professorship in one of the area colleges. He considered there to be nothing morally wrong with polygamy, but believed following federal law was in the best interests of the future of the LDS chruch. He actually volunteered to serve his missionary assignment in New York City, specifically seeking out Hasidim for conversion due to the challenge. He was unsuccessful.

Post: #37

(08-16-2016 10:52 AM)weambulance Wrote:  I guess you made a bunch of incorrect assumptions about what I meant, but okay.

Mormonism isn't just another branch of Christianity. It's a whole 'nother ball of wax. And that was what I was attempting to get across.

And no, if I marry a woman I do not intend to let her community take over my whole freaking life, which is exactly what happens when you become an active member of the mormon church. She can join my community, thank you very much.

I don't think it is as realistic or possible that a woman would want to abandon her community or religious group, just to join her husband's community after marriage. Sure, some asian wives who marry white men may try to adopt more western culture.

But after having children, a lot of women have more power in the household. In the Jewish culture, children are automatically Jewish if their mother is Jewish, so it would be likely for the children to attend Jewish school even if the husband is not Jewish.

I suppose it depends on the Husband's personality if he wants his wife and children to convert to his religion and lifestyle. It can be a tricky power struggle, and usually based on if the husband is more wealthier than the wife, which would motivate the wife to convert to his religion in order to keep him happy and the money flowing.

Post: #38

(08-15-2016 07:20 PM)weambulance Wrote:  Look into how incredibly involved mormons are in their church, consider the expectations placed on mormons by their community (it's a fucking shitload of time commitment and money), and think about the stress it's going to bring on your mormon wife if people are constantly wondering why her husband is not part of the community. I've seen it. It's not pretty. It is very stressful on all members of the family, including the kids.

I remember reading somewhere that Mormons use more than the average share of psychiatric medications, as well.

Post: #39

(08-16-2016 04:46 PM)Mikan Wrote:  

(08-15-2016 10:28 PM)TheUsual Wrote:  Mikan:
" For a Mormon of either gender to become an apostate is to essentially divorce their entire family, minus any other apostates. Even Mormon apostates outside Utah tend to form social groups of all Mormon apostates, they are really that insular."

This hasn't really been my experience, growing up in the in the Midwest if you went inactive you basically disappeared into the background with all of the other Protestants and Catholics who became either "in name only" or weren't religious at all. The whole being shunned by your family is mainly a Utah thing these days.

I'm probably a bit older than a lot of the posters here, most of my information is first hand stories from Utah based true believers from the 70s and 80s. I've likely met midwestern Mormons and had no idea. Unlike most people (I imagine) I actually talked to the missionaries when I lived in a city. I'm fascinated by their drive and I enjoy seeing how their pitch has evolved over the years.

The individual I received most of my information about Mormon life from was born and raised in the SLC area and only left because he couldn't find a professorship in one of the area colleges. He considered there to be nothing morally wrong with polygamy, but believed following federal law was in the best interests of the future of the LDS chruch. He actually volunteered to serve his missionary assignment in New York City, specifically seeking out Hasidim for conversion due to the challenge. He was unsuccessful.

That explains a lot, the 70's and 80's were a bit different time in Utah from what I understand. The church was way more intrusive into the personal lives of the members than it is today. That probably explains the shunning people would receive if they left the church.

Post: #40

Speaking of updating Mormon information, the missionaries aren't just male anymore, there are girls out there too.

I know, I made one cry.

Post: #41

(08-17-2016 11:45 AM)debeguiled Wrote:  Speaking of updating Mormon information, the missionaries aren't just male anymore, there are girls out there too.

I know, I made one cry.

Story time? Dude, you can't just leave us hanging. Cry crying or moan crying out your name?

Post: #42

Speaking of Mormon wives, I was thinking of some stories my wife's aunt told me. Apparently the aunt lived in Utah for a while. The aunt said it was very illuminating, and that the woman denoted time by their last breakdown. That's right. As mentioned before, the "real" Mormon lifestyle is incredibly demanding, plus an expectation of 5 kids. The women can't actually do it all, and every so often have some kind of breakdown, whether fatigue, psychotic or psychosis. They happen every two to five years or so, and so she recalled women recalling time by *which* breakdown that happened near.

It's hardcore.

Post: #43

Yeah there are definitely young, thin, attractive, and personable sister missionaries out there doing the rounds. Made me do a double-take at these two cuties who rolled up at my house the other day. It got me to thinking. I don't see how anyone in their right mind, or in good faith, could join such an organization with genuine intentions for spiritual growth. It's like either you're born into it, or you experience some serious trauma and are so damaged that you'll join anything for some relief. And I'm not against ritual, tradition, communal activities, and conservative values. To the contrary I think those things have value, but it's so lame and perverse that the only places to find these things comes at a cost of a vow of living your life based on literal interpretations of fairy tales. (expanding beyond Mormonism for that last statement)

Anyways, I cannot confirm that these two young ladies had breast implants, but they were sweet and pretty cute. Made me consider drinking the Mormon kool-aid.

Post: #44

(08-16-2016 07:53 AM)Sonoma Wrote:  Mormons also tend to be fucking loaded, so they can easily afford plastic surgery.

They're like Jews if Jews actually believed in God/Bible

Utah's actually #1 in bankruptcies:

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/5950...tcies.html

But I know what you mean, whenever I encounter Mormons outside of Utah, they tend to be solidly middle class. I think that's just because the ones that leave Utah do so because of careers, as in, careers worth leaving the homeland for. So then it gives us non-Utah folks the impression that Mormons are well off, as most of us don't actually go to the source, Utah.

Post: #45

GREAT, fantastic. Their life revolves around the holy duty of keeping a family and having children, and they want to ruin the breasts, which is what nourishes the babies. WAY TO GO MURICANS. Seriously, united statians NEVER fail to surprise me, it is always the next craziness, always a step deeper into the abyss