Post: #1

There are many men who love to read here and have posted great reviews of classic books that have generated a lot of discussion.

I had the idea to get together an RVF book club. I am open to suggestions but my idea is basically this:

Have a RVF Book Club Thread. We focus on a different book each month. Via PMs we decide on very high-quality classic literature that deals with masculinity in some way that we think is enlightening. Those who have already read the book will begin the month posting their takes on the book, and those who have not can contribute by writing and discussing their impressions as they read through the book.

I would hope to focus on timeless classics that have already showed staying power, things like Greek and Roman texts, Sun Tzu, Nietzsche, Carlyle, real classics. Doing this would help us all build a stronger basis in our history and develop a stronger set of common references in our discussions here about masculinity.

After a year we will have read through 12 books and hopefully everyone will have benefitted from it.

Would anyone be interested in this? Get in touch via PM or comment here and we'll try to see who would like to help lead some discussions on some classic books and we can hopefully get started in a few days for September if there's interest.

Post: #2

I am definitely down.

Post: #3

Seconded.

Post: #4

Third-ed. Would we be going for a mix of fiction and non fiction?

Post: #5

(08-28-2015 05:10 PM)NilNisiOptimum Wrote:  Third-ed. Would we be going for a mix of fiction and non fiction?

I was picturing mostly non-fiction but if you have a good novel to suggest, that is fine. I'm immediately thinking of Goethe's Faust, which I have seen referenced here innumerable times but I have never read. Hemingway as well.

Some texts I have read that I would propose:

Thomas Carlyle - Heroes and Hero Worship
Thucydides - The Peloponnesian War
Sun Tzu - The Art of War
Seneca - Letters to Lucilius
Hemingway - A Moveable Feast

Some authors/works I would like to have included, that I have not read:

Goethe - Faust
Nietzsche - ?
Julius Ceasar - The Gallic War/De Bello Gallico

Just to give an idea of the general theme I'm imagining. Please share ideas and may the best rise to the top.

Post: #6

Classics with a masculine bent:

Have read, would recommend:
Dashiell Hammett's The Maltese Falcon (fiction)
Marcus Aurelius' Meditations

Interested in reading:
Hemingway's Death in the Afternoon
Nietzsche's Twilight of the Idols
Nietzsche's The Antichrist
Aristotle's The Nicomachean Ethics

Post: #7

I would second Meditations and Art of War.

As for fiction, I didn't have anything specific in mind, more just wanting to know what direction you were looking to go. Though I do imagine if be more motivated to read classics like The Three Musketeers or The Brothers Karazmarov with a group.

Post: #8

(08-28-2015 07:18 PM)NilNisiOptimum Wrote:  I would second Meditations and Art of War.

As for fiction, I didn't have anything specific in mind, more just wanting to know what direction you were looking to go. Though I do imagine if be more motivated to read classics like The Three Musketeers or The Brothers Karazmarov with a group.

I haven't read The Brothers Karazmarov, that is a book I'd love to get around to, consider it added to the list.

Post: #9

Look into the books Napoleon read in his youth and while an officer. Great selection of classics.

He is quoted as saying, "fiction is for women and children".

Post: #10

I wanted to post my opinion on Thucydides here, since I think Sonsowey is wanting this book to be the first in the series.

With regard to Thucydides, the most complete and scholarly translations are those done by the Loeb Library. They have the original Greek on one page, and the translation on the other. Also they have great introductions, indexes, and textual info.

But the big problem is price. They are simply out of range for most of the young guys. I think the Loeb edition on Thucydides is 3 or 4 volumes, and each one retails at about $26 each. But you can get them used for a lot less on Amazon. A true scholar will never skimp on books, but you do have to weigh different factors into consideration.

So, having said that, I think that the Penguin editions are great for the general reader. I use them myself. Inexpensive, great quality, and good editing and commentary essays. Penguin is a great series, and I think for most people this is the best option.

In recent years, the "Landmark Thucydides" has been very, very impressive. This series integrates maps and military analyses with the text to give the reader a real visual sense of what is going on. It's a whole different experience. If you like maps and additional historical info, this might be worth looking into. For me, I prefer Penguin, but to each his own.

Post: #11

I think this is a fantastic idea.

Also, if we ever get to reading the Art of War by Sun Tzu, we should read On War by Carl Von Clausewitz. It would be nice to do a compare and contrast.

Post: #12

What is he significance of reading multiple books on War and War Theory if barely one percent of people intend to serve in a military.

I find most most books in this style don't particularly have anything of substance that hasn't been implemented in modern times.
Knowledge is generally passed down and recited.

Art Of War has be remade and rephrased multiple time and many of its takes are / should be common knowledge in much of business worlds ect ect.

The only thing that made them so special is that, at the time they came out.. that knowledge was extremely hard to come by and most people were barely literate to begin with.

Post: #13

I am definitely interested. Here's some books that are coming up on my list.

Brave New World (never read it)
INFLUENCE by Cialdini
Re-read BANG (as a refresher. Could spark some new ideas.

I'll join but won't guarantee to read all the classics due to lack of time and interest.

Post: #14

For those non-traditional readers with moral flexibility.

There's a file ~2 gigs 'somewhere' out here on the interwebs that has classic literature from all over the world.
I've been exposed to many great works from scanning over this folder amd pointing out sonething that sounds interesting.
I've read Hemingway's For Whom The Bell Tolls this month and am a third of the way in to Dante Alleghieri's Inferno, or.... the one about him traversing the seven circles of hell.

It was a great find i thought when i stumbled upon this collection. I was looking to expand my knowledge of classic literature and to learn to be a little more cultured i suppose. Ive yet to meet a woman that i can dicsuss any of these books with but i would definitely be interested in joining a book club.

The only book clubs in my area are 'bible studies.' Its a great book but as they say, everyone has their own interpretation of it.

If anyone chooses to look for this, search "classic literature" in your favourite peer to peer network. In sure you guys can figure out how to convert whichever book your reading into phone, tanlet, or kindle format. Unless youve got one comfortable computer chair and a nice large monitor.

Edit: I do love having an old smelly book in my hand, with real pages to turn amd dog ears to correct but for those who are strapped for money and dont want to buy sonething theyll only read once, this is the option for you.

Post: #15

(08-29-2015 07:32 AM)jayyrod1 Wrote:  For those non-traditional readers with moral flexibility.

There's a file ~2 gigs 'somewhere' out here on the interwebs that has classic literature from all over the world.

Could this be what you're talking about?

Either way, tons of classic literature here, in English and various romance languages.

https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=b59f5db08...D9-lsiKlKk

Post: #16

I'd be more interested in books that are a little bit more update.
Yes, there are some classic books.
But I feel like there is a hype to read this old idea. From those old idea, people get a good base line for information...It also brings a slightly elitist attitude, where I feel like many people are reading the books just to say they read the books and are thereafter, "cultured"

How about some books that are more up to date.
New takes and improvisations on old ideas. The world is much more complicated now.
Instead of reading long draw out entry level books...we could find some books at are more complex in the current issues.
I feel like they are much more beneficial.

A couple examples.
Some of these are books I have bought a long time ago and read, and some of them are books I've bough and haven't gotten around too.


The Accidental Guerrilla: Fighting Small Wars in the Midst of a Big On


The Knowledge: How to Rebuild Civilization in the Aftermath of a Cataclysm


Why We Lost: A General's Inside Account of the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars


Bending History: Barack Obama's Foreign Policy


Long Gray Lines: The Southern Military School Tradition

Post: #17

^^ I'd like to see a nice mix. I haven't read too many of the really old classics, and a book club format would be more conductive to getting those kind of books hammered out. That said, the prose in those books tend to be quite dated, and do not make for pleasurable reading. I would love to alternate every month between old and modern (last 100 years) works.

Post: #18

Posted because I'm in, just in case this turns into PMs too.

Post: #19

I'm interested. Need to get back into reading more good books as it is.

Post: #20

Sonsowey, not the exact but yes tha collection has some of the texts in the one i am referring.

Im on mobile and cant locate the exact onr i have at the moment. This is one i found that is most similar to the one i speak. When i get back to my desktop i will compile a complete list of the file i have and will share for those interested.

http://www.demonoid.pw/files/details/207...#file_list

Post: #21

(08-29-2015 07:03 AM)Sourcecode Wrote:  What is he significance of reading multiple books on War and War Theory if barely one percent of people intend to serve in a military.

I find most most books in this style don't particularly have anything of substance that hasn't been implemented in modern times.
Knowledge is generally passed down and recited.

Art Of War has be remade and rephrased multiple time and many of its takes are / should be common knowledge in much of business worlds ect ect.

The only thing that made them so special is that, at the time they came out.. that knowledge was extremely hard to come by and most people were barely literate to begin with.

There are differences in their theories and the means to the end. With differences such as those, there are differences in influences.

As for whether one needs to serve in the military for the purpose of a book club, keep in mind they would make for useful mental exercises for understanding. Obviously a civilian wouldn't understand to the full depth to a soldier would, but it doesn't mean a novice in chess should bother reading the works of chess players or attempt to study their strategies to expand how they think. A lot of knowledge can come from places least expected.

Post: #22

(08-28-2015 07:45 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  But the big problem is price. They are simply out of range for most of the young guys. I think the Loeb edition on Thucydides is 3 or 4 volumes, and each one retails at about $26 each. But you can get them used for a lot less on Amazon. A true scholar will never skimp on books, but you do have to weigh different factors into consideration.

Don't overlook your good old fashioned local library as a source. Especially for the classics.

Post: #23

(08-29-2015 08:01 AM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

(08-29-2015 07:32 AM)jayyrod1 Wrote:  For those non-traditional readers with moral flexibility.

There's a file ~2 gigs 'somewhere' out here on the interwebs that has classic literature from all over the world.

Could this be what you're talking about?

Either way, tons of classic literature here, in English and various romance languages.

https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=b59f5db08...D9-lsiKlKk

I've taken the liberty of compiling what I have and putting it in to a zip file. It's hosted on my media fire account and if anyone is interested on getting a copy, PM me and I will send you the link/password.

Do note, I misspoke on the file size. It's not ~2 gigs but actually 260MB's. Haha - I had it confused with my occult book collection. Still though, a lot of good classic fiction books here.

Post: #24

I really want to do Thomas Carlyle's On Heroes and Hero Worship. Thucydides got a great reception so far but Carlyle is less famous, less popular, and I am not sure if as many people would be interested in reading him. I think he's an absolute necessary piece of reading for anyone interested in masculinity and interested in understanding and standing against the modern decline. I do wonder how many would be willing to give him a look in October.

Post: #25

For future choices, I think it might be best to do a general pitch and then a vote the week leading into the new month, and then start the new book on the first. I've done things like this in other places. More transparent than PMs.