Post: #1

The other day, I was watching a pick-up basketball game of kids around the age of 18. I noticed a difference with the level of aggression they were playing with and my experiences playing ball at that age. There was no trash talking or aggressive fouls. They were quite cordial, emotionless and didn’t push the envelope any way.

My childhood and teenager years playing sports seemed much different. With my friends, you didn’t make it to the rim without a hard foul, which was seldom called unless you completely were mauled. You paid the price for driving the lane. You earned respect through toughness and physical aggression. Things often got heated, but we were still buddies at the end of the day and your honor intact for standing your ground.

There was constant trash talking, even amongst your best friends and defense was played with an even greater tenacity than offense. There was a pride in not letting someone else get the best of you.

Admittedly, I grew up with skilled athletes who hailed from blue-collar, middle class fathers, serving as our coaches and mentors. These men were from a different generation and they were great masculine role models. They instilled a tough, aggressive approach to competition. I think I learned my greatest life lessons and sense of masculinity through competitive sports.

I started to reflect on my experiences growing up with sports. It was essentially my life, playing baseball, football, and basketball. Male relationships were developed through being in battle with and against each other. Lessons on perseverance, dealing with adversity, and the art of bullshitting were cultivated. For me, my sense of masculinity and self-confidence were developed predominantly through athletics.

Can men develop their Alpha self and masculinity as youngsters without playing competitive sports? Sure you can excel in academics, music, and art, but does it really give you the same masculine confidence? I venture to say no but I am curious on what others have to say.

Post: #2

I've never met one.

Post: #3

I would say that it's very difficult to get to a 'high level' of masculinity and toughness without any experience of a competitive sport, be that a ball sport, combat sport or whatever.

I think it's important to have at least some kind of avenue for competition and outlet for aggression. You learn a lot about yourself.

Then again I'm probably biased, I absolutely love sports. Anything that pits me or my team against an opponent and involves strategy, discipline, teamwork, skill and toughness is gold for personal development in my book.

I definitely think there is something here for sure though, Dantes. Interesting post.

Post: #4

It is hard to imagine it occurring. It might be possible, but it seems that healthy competition that involves you pushing both your mind and body to its extremes are very important for the growth as a man.

I once read somewhere a quote that I will have to paraphrase and it went something like this...

"For men, competition is more important than sex"

It is what men have done for thousands of years. We compete. All in all, we compete so that we can reproduce. And sports seem to be the most civil and healthy way for men to compete and find out what they really have deep down in them and drive a confidence that gives great success in life.

Post: #5

The Victorians invented sports purely for this purpose.

Post: #6

I think one of the benefits of sports/military is it develops our ability to relate, bond and develop friendships/alliances with other men. It also develops discipline and sacrifice and the emotional muscles needed to contended with the others in the world.

I played a lot of sports as a kid, but mostly football until my early 30s. Physical contact was such a part of life for me, that when I get bumped hard on the street, in the train, etc it doesn't bother.

I think large families with a lot of brothers also can have the same benefits as playing sports. I've knows guys with 2 or 3 brothers and never played high school sports, yet they have the same temperament as if they had.

Post: #7

It is definitely possible to be a true alpha without the competitive contact sports but it is unlikely to happen. Through the thousands of hours playing you have a much more increased understanding of your own limitations. So you can be very confident in your ability, also you would have built up a muscular frame which will help a great deal in your physical dominance. Without the sports that is a lot harder to achieve.

I'm not particularly athletic. Only sports I ever did was skateboarding and Kart racing. Although competitive it has almost no demand to be physically dominating in order to succeed. In fact being strong but light is an advantage in the karts. Could out turn, out break and out accelerate most of my opponents.

Get me on a pitch playing rugby and I'll be going home in pain. I did naturally veer off towards the sports I was good at as opposed to the sports I wasn't.

Having said that I can't think of anyone in the sports I did that are truly an Alpha male. It is far less likely to happen. The physical dominance contact sports require are such a great foundation to become an alpha male that makes it unlikely to be truly alpha without.

Post: #8

Competitive (read: team) sports should be mandatory for all high school students.

I started playing football at 7 years old and it carried me physically, mentally, and socially all the way through college. From my first bathroom blowjob from a senior cheerleader at 15 years old to fitness in the weight room and even having college tuition covered, I wouldn't be the man I am today without it. Some of the benefits:

- Role models for young men (coaches, senior players)
- Respecting authority figures and sacrificing for a cause greater than oneself
- Physical fitness and weightlifting become as routine as eating breakfast
- Valuable lessons in leadership, teamwork, and sportsmanship
- Getting young men away from negative influences during formative years (e.g. drugs, alcohol, sedentary lifestyles)
- Learning the ways of the woman; hitting 30-50 notches before graduation is easy
- Scholarship opportunities and more affordable post-secondary education
- Adopting a "winning" mentality - at a young age, this sets the tone for your entire life
- Most importantly: knowing what it means to fight to the death, and lose. Life's hardest lesson.

To respond to the question directly, no, I don't believe it's possible. Men can certainly feign "alpha" traits and achieve much of the same success, but in the end, it's a facade. There's no substitute for the rigorous physical and mental conditioning competitive sports provides young men during formative years. With that being said, if you don't have such a background, create one for yourself. It's never too late. There are thousands of competitive sports teams throughout Europe and the U.S. catered specifically to adults.

I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all he holds dear, is the moment he's worked his heart out in a good cause, and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.
- Vince Lombardi

Post: #9

I'd agree with everyone above on the value of competitive sport.

Whether competitiveness as a trait is absolutely essential in itself, in theory, to be an 'alpha male', I don't know. I'm not convinced being motivated by external validation is necessarily a prerequisite for being what I would term an 'alpha'. I think competitiveness when young probably plays a significant role in shaping our characters, but to be honest, I find highly competitive adults to be anything but 'alpha'. Don't get me wrong, I think winning is an essential part of being a desirable adult (money, girls, skills, achievements, adventures etc). However, I feel that outward competitiveness is a fundamentally childlike phase, that men should grow out of. That's not to say you shouldn't want to compete, and want to win (I boxed - I am painfully aware of the desirability of winning). I just think that once you reach adulthood, the external motivational aspects of competitiveness should have been absorbed, and should have given way to an inner drive that only competes with itself to excel in any endeavor you turn your hand to. It's probably me splitting hairs with semantics though.

Post: #10

^^^ No I think that's a good point.

Being "Alpha" is purely contextual the older you get.

Post: #11

Alpha as in Sexual Alpha (in Roissy's definition), Poon Slayer? Yes. Artists and various types of entertainers are obvious examples.

Alpha as in Leader of Men? No.

Post: #12

I have no doubt some of the guys from this list were never into sports:
LeoLeonardo DiCaprio
Ben Affleck
Justin Bieber
George Clooney

Post: #13

(08-17-2015 08:04 AM)heavy Wrote:  I have no doubt some of the guys from this list were never into sports:
LeoLeonardo DiCaprio
Ben Affleck
Justin Bieber
George Clooney

I wouldn't call any of those true alphas. Maybe DiCaprio. They are "alphas" in our poisoned society. They can get with women due to their fame and money. But are any of them strong men who can truly go on their own, be happy and content with themselves, and gain respect of other men on their own merits alone?

I can say this much, as a man I never strive to be like any of these four men. I want to be successful, but I want to be able to stand on my own and my own principles and not repeat some anti-male propaganda to pay my bills.

Post: #14

(08-17-2015 08:04 AM)heavy Wrote:  I have no doubt some of the guys from this list were never into sports:
LeoLeonardo DiCaprio
Ben Affleck
Justin Bieber
George Clooney

Bieber is a total insecure nerd, reflected in his career damaging decisions to get silly tattoos and attempts to act like he's "hood." He's a total pouser.

I'd even go a step further and say his beta-ness is what's going to destroy his career. The kid had some talent, but he's so insecure that he decided to throw it all away in lame attempts to seek approval from dudes who are actually alphas.

He's the kid in high school who no one actually likes, but his parents have a big house with a pool and they let us throw parties there. So he's tolerated and made one of the group sometimes.

Post: #15

Athletics are absolutely integral to a man's confidence and overall personal development.

I think competitive, team sports are especially important.

At worst, there is weight training, which is technically a sport, but it still misses a sense of competition between yourself and someone else.

I've played a variety of sports for many years. For those who don't play anything at the moment, I strongly recommend you take up basketball as a starting point. You can practice on your own and get better quickly. Challenge others to 1 on 1's. Lose over and over until you win. Before you know it you'll be pulling your weight in a full game of pickup. It's exhilarating.

Post: #16

You know, it's funny. I'm trying to help a friend of mine out. I asked my girlfriend for a candid assessment of what she thinks of him, physically, and she described him as "soft." That's a good way to put it - the guy has never been inside a weight room before.

I'm not in the best shape of my life right this moment (sadly, I find that when I'm getting enough pussy and making enough money, the gym becomes less of a priority, which is a big fault of mine), but I still have an athletic build. A wide chest, developed traps, big biceps, etc. I look like I used to wrestle and play football.

That said, I think you can still develop an athletic body later in life. I know a lot of guys who were total wussies growing up, and then started getting really into Crossfit, MMA, or boxing in their 30s. Granted, I think it's a lot easier if you played competitive sports in your childhood - those tend to be the guys who are just naturally athletic.

But if I had to give my friend one piece of advice it would be this - join Crossfit or MMA gym and treat it like a sport. Don't just try and struggle to get through a workout. Try and get to the point where you are dominating the workouts and pushing yourself.

Part of the problem is people who didn't grow up playing competitive sports think that physical fitness is sitting on an exercise bike for 20 minutes at Planet Fitness and then maybe doing a few bicep curls. Deadlifts, squats, bench press, and that sort of stuff is for "jocks", and "I wouldn't want to be huge like Arnold anyway." (like you'll just magically get huge overnight from doing compound exercises). Having some size and knowing how to tangle in a street fight definitely makes you more naturally alpha.

Post: #17

It is only recently that societies have begun to deny that young boys need physical exertion and competition to develop into real men.

Notable examples are Athenians and Spartans, British Victorian games and JFK's thing last century. Every civilisation has their own version.

Post: #18

According to Jack Donovan's The Way of Men the four pillars of masculinity are strength, courage, honour and self-mastery. A competitive sport generally addresses the first and last of these items but there are other ways to achieve it too. So the answer is no.

Post: #19

Cool thread: I think sports can definitely instill certain alpha qualities in a man, but those qualities might also be instilled by hardship, mastery of a skill set or something else that instills a (young) man with a sense of control.

That said, I will admit that I think sports is the best way to learn teamwork. I am NOT a team player at all, and I think a lot of that is because I refused to play teamsports as a kid. Naturally, I understand how to be a teamplayer as an adult, but It is not my first response to a situation, unless it involves friends, I don't want to join anyone's team.

I always wondered, "why should I help these losers to succeed when I can just play a sport where I'm 100% responsible for my own success or failure."

Post: #20

Physical sports, more so than sports in general, are a fabulous way to learn to endure pain; to relish it even.

I've lifted weights with lots of guys over the years and there is a difference between guys that have played physical sports and those that haven't in the weights room.

Post: #21

Quote:Can males be Alpha if they have not played competitive sports?

Yes, without a doubt, and by most reasonable definitions of alpha that I can think of. Alpha is a social-sexual designation and humans are a complex social, cooperative, tool-using species. There are many different ways for a man to achieve a high social and sexual rank and many of them do not involve physical prowess. Actors are easy to cite but it goes far beyond actors. Any man with social dominance can be alpha, either a "leader-of-men" alpha or a "pussy-magnet" alpha.

That said, competitive sports are probably one of the best ways to develop healthy masculine traits.

Post: #22

(08-17-2015 08:50 AM)Nascimento Wrote:  At worst, there is weight training, which is technically a sport, but it still misses a sense of competition between yourself and someone else.

What, you think weightlifters, powerlifters and strongmen don't compete against other people?

Post: #23

(08-17-2015 09:30 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

(08-17-2015 08:50 AM)Nascimento Wrote:  At worst, there is weight training, which is technically a sport, but it still misses a sense of competition between yourself and someone else.

What, you think weightlifters, powerlifters and strongmen don't compete against other people?

Quite.

Even taking out those obvious competitors, I reckon most guys are competitive with other guys in their own gym!

I certainly am. I love it when the big boys are in!

Post: #24

(08-17-2015 08:46 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  

(08-17-2015 08:04 AM)heavy Wrote:  I have no doubt some of the guys from this list were never into sports:
Leonardo DiCaprio
Ben Affleck
Justin Bieber
George Clooney

Bieber is a total insecure nerd, reflected in his career damaging decisions to get silly tattoos and attempts to act like he's "hood." He's a total pouser.

I'd even go a step further and say his beta-ness is what's going to destroy his career. The kid had some talent, but he's so insecure that he decided to throw it all away in lame attempts to seek approval from dudes who are actually alphas.

He's the kid in high school who no one actually likes, but his parents have a big house with a pool and they let us throw parties there. So he's tolerated and made one of the group sometimes.

(08-17-2015 08:07 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  I wouldn't call any of those true alphas. Maybe DiCaprio. They are "alphas" in our poisoned society. They can get with women due to their fame and money. But are any of them strong men who can truly go on their own, be happy and content with themselves, and gain respect of other men on their own merits alone?

I can say this much, as a man I never strive to be like any of these four men. I want to be successful, but I want to be able to stand on my own and my own principles and not repeat some anti-male propaganda to pay my bills.

It appears OP would require a definition of Alpha. I can imagine very few cases where I could out-game any of those guys.

I do understand each of these points, I just tend to use the heartiste definition which tends to be the most objective standard I can think of and can be used rather universally.

Owning the frame on the other hand...I can imagine many instances where I would own the frame with these guys. If we went pheasant hunting for instance, I have no doubt they'd look fools compared to my shotgun skills.

Post: #25

Great topic. This thread makes me want to get playing a sport regularly again.

One of my most cherished memories of school was playing football almost every day with mates. Sometimes twice a day. We were so fit back then. I consider myself lucky to have been a teenager before the smartphone era.

Question: Which competitive sport is the very best for developing masculine traits?