Post: #26

I personally believe that if your average looking but approach enough 9s and 10s, you could land one. The law of averages just says that you will eventually get one if you approach enough of them.

The problem for most guys that arent rich and/or famous is that 9s and 10s are RARELY seen enough to be able to approach enough of them for the law of averages to play out.

If you were in the league or an actor or whatever, 9s and 10s would damn near be at every party you go to, so your bound to get a couple of them. But look around, a lot of rich and famous guys dont even have what a lot of people would rate a 9 or 10.

A true 9 or 10 is rare for damn near any man whether you are rich, famous or average.

Post: #27

"The problem for most guys that arent rich and/or famous is that 9s and 10s are RARELY seen enough to be able to approach enough of them for the law of averages to play out."

Right.

Especially in America.

This is why you have to be born in Riga, Latvia or some place like that.

How to Get a Model Girlfriend http://www.thegmanifesto.com/2011/02/how...riend.html

There were guys with 9's or 10's in Riga that would get blanked in Southern California.

Post: #28

(06-10-2011 11:06 AM)theIVth Wrote:  The problem for most guys that arent rich and/or famous is that 9s and 10s are RARELY seen enough to be able to approach enough of them for the law of averages to play out.

Good point.

Post: #29

Considering that the average man is a 5 I'd say it is not realistic, but if we were always "realistic" we would all be living pretty dull lives. The thing is, an average man is dull, and isn't ambitious, so by considering the reality of the average man, I'd say he doesn't have the balls to pursue something outside of his comfort range (4-6) anyway.

Post: #30

Is it possible for an average guy to get a near 10(10s don't exist IMO-only 9.75s)?

Sure, but it depends on your location. In the USA(especially where you're at in California, Urban Rennaissance Man), it just isn't likely. Girls that attractive are relatively rare in this country(thanks to obesity), and the sheer entitlement mentality within this nation will further lower your chances. These hot women believe that they have a god given right to "Mr. Big", and unfortunately you are not tall, athletic, or rich enough to fit their perception of that ideal man.

This doesn't mean that you should give up, however. As you all know(you're on this forum, after all), expatriation is a real option. One need not limit themselves to American women.

Urban Rennaissance Man, you have quite a few good qualities. You make a pretty solid income, and your height is not a massive disadvantage in many other parts of the world. In fact, some of the oft-travelled destinations mentioned in the travel forum(ex. The Phillipines, Colombia, China, etc) feature average male heights right at around 5'6" or 5'7". Combine that with your status as a westerner and your income(you're rich in most places like these) and you'll see your chances of picking up elite women(9s and above) improve significantly.

If you're dead set on one of these women and you're unwilling to pay for it, then travel is your best bet at picking one up. Only then will you have enough relative status to more realistically pull your dream girl.

Post: #31

(06-09-2011 07:36 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  Interesting on the varying opinions I remember a topic like this coming up on approaching the best looking women in a venue and the overall opinion was that these tend to be the more down to earth girls because they're rarely approached as anything besides a nice pair of tits. If you went up to them casually and didn't make it obvious that you were only going up to them because of their beauty you'd do well.

Where does seem to be a general varying of opinions. I hear some people say very beautiful women are extremely down to earth many times, because they aren't approached very often. Some people say the 7's and 8's are the ones with the big heads because they are the ones that are approached the most often, buy below and above average guys, since they're hot enough to inspire desire, yet they're not quite pretty enough to be intimidating. I can tell you from experience that many 7's act very unappreciative of a good man, and sometimes even stuck up. I feel its because of this 'everybody wants me' phenomena. It doesn't help that we have guys who are 8's and 9's, going hard in the paint after girls who are 7's and below! The double whammy comes from having a girl who is a 7, behave and treat you like she's a 10! If I'm going to go through bullshit anyway, it might as well be with a 9, or as close as I can get to it. At least when the relationship finally ends I'm not left thinking, "Damn, I went thru all that drama and bullshit, And over a girl I wasn't terribly attracted to in the first place!"

I am of the belief that if a man tries hard enough, and is willing to go where he has to go, he can get a 9 or 10. We have all seen the dumpy guy, who isn't rich, with the hot girl. However, it's probably not going to be easy, unless it just happens to be one of your lucky streaks. Most likely, it's going to take a fair amount of game, some good fashion sense, and putting yourself in places were beautiful women are. It will also depend on how much rejection from beautiful women you can stomach. I don't think the 'numbers game' can be underrated. Unfortunately, I can't speak from a ton of experience here because honestly I've only had 3 girls in my life that I would consider to be 9's. That's why I posed the question on this form, to get the opinions from some of the players on here who have greater knowledge with this. I know my height shuts me out a lot, especially in places like night clubs where a visual is pretty much all the girl is gonna get of you. However, I do really well In settings were I can actually have a few minutes speak to a girl, such as a house party type situation or at work, (which I don't recommend) or any place where I have time to let my game and personality shine through! The sad part is most people, including myself, do not regularly attend house parties field with 9' and 10's. Neither are most people's work sites chock full of beautiful women. Unfortunately, those girls will overwhelmingly be found on the street level and night spots, where your looks are gonna play a huge part in attracting them. I guess it comes down to looking as good as you can, being as confident as possible, frequenting places were large amounts of beautiful women can be found, and letting chance and numbers do the rest. Hmmm.... Maybe my dream of marrying a Hayden Panatierre look alike will mean having to go to Latvia or Romania to find her. I'm prepared to do it if necessary! :-)

Post: #32

First of all, I don't think that Hayden Panettiere (sp?) is a 10. She's pretty hot, but would be 7.5-8.5, mayybe a 9, if she wasn't a celebrity. That said, i think that a 7 or 8 is certainly attainable for an average (5-6) looking guy, but it will require a lot of trial and error, and effort. That said, if that is the case, i'd try and work another angle to get that 7.5 or 8 chick.

1) Try for a girl from abroad. Places like Colombia, Brazil, Eastern Europe, Asia, Ethiopia).
2) Change geographical locations in the US where hotter chicks are easier.
3) Try for a hotter chick of a different race. I would try for Latinas/Asians in SoCal.
4) Get a job where you are surrounded by hot chicks and work your magic.
5) Sheer effort. Game, game, game till you reach one who likes you. Like Style. That guy is average looking and was able to get a 7.5-8, although i believe he wasn't able to keep her.

Post: #33

(06-10-2011 11:06 AM)theIVth Wrote:  I personally believe that if your average looking but approach enough 9s and 10s, you could land one. The law of averages just says that you will eventually get one if you approach enough of them.

The problem for most guys that arent rich and/or famous is that 9s and 10s are RARELY seen enough to be able to approach enough of them for the law of averages to play out.

If you were in the league or an actor or whatever, 9s and 10s would damn near be at every party you go to, so your bound to get a couple of them. But look around, a lot of rich and famous guys dont even have what a lot of people would rate a 9 or 10.

A true 9 or 10 is rare for damn near any man whether you are rich, famous or average.

I could be wrong here, but my guess is that most elite women(9s and 10s) aren't very accessible by cold approach. Most guys that approach these women are going to get blown out. And even if you are the 1 in 10 that gets her number, chances are she will flake out somewhere in the process because she's already got a busy social life and is up to her eyeballs in guys showering her with attention as it is just within her own social network. To keep such a woman you'd have to have serious value and that's not something you can fake over the long term.

You probably have to run in social circles that have elite women to have any realistic chance with them. I know there's the occasional average Joe that hits the jackpot and lands a 9 every now and then, but I'm talking about the reality for the majority of men.

Post: #34

(06-10-2011 02:35 PM)whosyourdaddy Wrote:  First of all, I don't think that Hayden Panettiere (sp?) is a 10. She's pretty hot, but would be 7.5-8.5, mayybe a 9, if she wasn't a celebrity. That said, i think that a 7 or 8 is certainly attainable for an average (5-6) looking guy, but it will require a lot of trial and error, and effort. That said, if that is the case, i'd try and work another angle to get that 7.5 or 8 chick.

1) Try for a girl from abroad. Places like Colombia, Brazil, Eastern Europe, Asia, Ethiopia).
2) Change geographical locations in the US where hotter chicks are easier.
3) Try for a hotter chick of a different race. I would try for Latinas/Asians in SoCal.
4) Get a job where you are surrounded by hot chicks and work your magic.
5) Sheer effort. Game, game, game till you reach one who likes you. Like Style. That guy is average looking and was able to get a 7.5-8, although i believe he wasn't able to keep her.

Hayden P is certainly not a 10. To be a 10 you must be perfect. Flawless face, great tits, great ass, sculpted pussy, perfectly proportioned. Hayden is flat chested. Id give her a 7.5-8.

Post: #35

(06-10-2011 02:53 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(06-10-2011 11:06 AM)theIVth Wrote:  I personally believe that if your average looking but approach enough 9s and 10s, you could land one. The law of averages just says that you will eventually get one if you approach enough of them.

The problem for most guys that arent rich and/or famous is that 9s and 10s are RARELY seen enough to be able to approach enough of them for the law of averages to play out.

If you were in the league or an actor or whatever, 9s and 10s would damn near be at every party you go to, so your bound to get a couple of them. But look around, a lot of rich and famous guys dont even have what a lot of people would rate a 9 or 10.

A true 9 or 10 is rare for damn near any man whether you are rich, famous or average.

I could be wrong here, but my guess is that most elite women(9s and 10s) aren't very accessible by cold approach. Most guys that approach these women are going to get blown out. And even if you are the 1 in 10 that gets her number, chances are she will flake out somewhere in the process because she's already got a busy social life and is up to her eyeballs in guys showering her with attention as it is just within her own social network. To keep such a woman you'd have to have serious value and that's not something you can fake over the long term.

You probably have to run in social circles that have elite women to have any realistic chance with them. I know there's the occasional average Joe that hits the jackpot and lands a 9 every now and then, but I'm talking about the reality for the majority of men.

Actually this is wrong. If you are drunk at a bar w/every other idiot hitting on her then yes, but if you catch her at the right time in a place where she isnt all done up it can be done.

Post: #36

[/quote]

Hayden P is certainly not a 10. To be a 10 you must be perfect. Flawless face, great tits, great ass, sculpted pussy, perfectly proportioned. Hayden is flat chested. Id give her a 7.5-8.
[/quote]

Personally, I feel any 1 who isn't dating a girl that looks like Hayden P. they have room for improvement! Lol. Seriously, I know everyone has their own version of what .a 10 is. In fact, I don't consider her to be a glamour girl 10 either. I chose her as an example because I consider her to be on the top level of what a normal guy might be able to obtain. I'm aware most people would consider her about an 8. I give ur the extra 1.5 points because she happens to fall into my ideal vision of beauty. (I'm a lover of blondes, and green eyes)

Post: #37

(06-10-2011 02:24 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  Is it possible for an average guy to get a near 10(10s don't exist IMO-only 9.75s)?

Sure, but it depends on your location. In the USA(especially where you're at in California, Urban Rennaissance Man), it just isn't likely. Girls that attractive are relatively rare in this country(thanks to obesity), and the sheer entitlement mentality within this nation will further lower your chances. These hot women believe that they have a god given right to "Mr. Big", and unfortunately you are not tall, athletic, or rich enough to fit their perception of that ideal man.

This doesn't mean that you should give up, however. As you all know(you're on this forum, after all), expatriation is a real option. One need not limit themselves to American women.

Urban Rennaissance Man, you have quite a few good qualities. You make a pretty solid income, and your height is not a massive disadvantage in many other parts of the world. In fact, some of the oft-travelled destinations mentioned in the travel forum(ex. The Phillipines, Colombia, China, etc) feature average male heights right at around 5'6" or 5'7". Combine that with your status as a westerner and your
income(you're rich in most places like these) and you'll see your chances of picking up elite women(9s and above) improve significantly.

If you're dead set on one of these women and you're unwilling to pay for it, then travel is your best bet at picking one up. Only then will you have enough relative status to more realistically pull your dream girl.

When you say, " not willing to pay for it", what do you mean by that?
I think you're right though, as far as having to go out of the country to find what I'm looking for in enough abundance to actually date a few of them. I mean let's be real, it isn't enough to date just one 10. Chances are that 1 girl isn't going to end up being your wife or live in girlfriend, unless you're just going to force the issue and mary the first 10 that comes along, which will probably end in disaster. You actually have to have a selection of 10's to have a suitable pool to choose from! I guess it's Latvia here I come! Lol. It's a shame really, that in a country with 320,000,000 people, from all over the world, we would have to travel abroad to find what we want! :-(

Post: #38

(06-10-2011 08:00 PM)Urban Renaissance Man Wrote:  When you say, " not willing to pay for it", what do you mean by that?

Escorts. $200-300 an hour can get you a solid, enthusiastic 9.5 and complete sexual access to her. A couple hundred more can get you a longer term girlfriend experience.

That is one path to these "elite"(physically elite, anyway) women. Many men aren't willing to go that route though(for obvious reasons). They prefer dating.

Quote:I think you're right though, as far as having to go out of the country to find what I'm looking for in enough abundance to actually date a few of them. I mean let's be real, it isn't enough to date just one 10. Chances are that 1 girl isn't going to end up being your wife or live in girlfriend, unless you're just going to force the issue and mary the first 10 that comes along, which will probably end in disaster.

If you want to get married, I'd actually suggest you not do it in the USA. Go to a country where a) There are more traditional values still around to support the institution and b) you can attract a prettier wife.

You living in California (community property state) makes it even worse, though none of the other states are significantly better. CA law makes it very easy for her to pick up one day and rob you blind.

Quote:You actually have to have a selection of 10's to have a suitable pool to choose from! I guess it's Latvia here I come! Lol. It's a shame really, that in a country with 320,000,000 people, from all over the world, we would have to travel abroad to find what we want! :-(

America is a great place to try and find opportunity and financial success as a capitalist.

It isn't the happiest place to live. That's just the tradeoff.

Post: #39

(06-10-2011 03:25 AM)houston Wrote:  Anything is possible. I've fucked a couple of 9's before I even got into this game. No idea how I did it but it happened.

Do y'all think its a good idea to game 9's and 10's any different than other hoes? I'm curious to hear the older playas opinions on all this. Is it worth it to go through all the bullshit? I guess everyone has their own opinion on that.

First, I'm a way older player.

But I have a very different view of who 9-10's are.

First, they'd have to look great without makeup. They're into their bodies and activity, which conflicts with the high-heeled club lizards many like.

I also don't understand the fascination with clubs, as they seem the most hostile environments set up to make your socializing attempts fail

So a natural beauty 9+ could be worth it if she loves you. As soon as I see a woman who's a professional beauty I am quite wary.

A couple wise sayings I've heard:
Only marry a woman if you're sure she loves you more than you love her.

Men fall in love through the eyes, women through the ears.

(Russian, I think
You can't hide love or a cough.

Post: #40

average looking guy can get 9....its just have to be right time and right place...be LUCKY.

infact..i have seen many bullish look guys with hotties.

Post: #41

[quote='Athlone McGinnis[/quote]

Escorts. $200-300 an hour can get you a solid, enthusiastic 9.5 and complete sexual access to her. A couple hundred more can get you a longer term girlfriend experience.

That is one path to these "elite"(physically elite, anyway) women. Many men aren't willing to go that route though(for obvious reasons). They prefer dating.
[quote]
I've never been one for prostitutes. For 1, it's usually illegal, usually expensive, and never fully enjoyable because you have to be extra careful, with condoms, no oral, etc. Plus, just knowing in the back of your mind that this girl doesn't really like you, or even find you attractive, isn't very sexy to me. Lastly, it's very rare that I actually see a 9 on redbook or other stripper/escort sites. At least here in the Bay. Every bachelor party I've ever helped plan never had strippers that looked like their pictures on the website! Lol.
It isn't just about that. I know that whether it's now or 10 years from now, I'm going to want a girl to settle down with, and when I do I'm going to want her to be hot, with a good personality.

Post: #42

(06-11-2011 10:59 AM)Urban Renaissance Man Wrote:  [quote='Athlone McGinnis

Escorts. $200-300 an hour can get you a solid, enthusiastic 9.5 and complete sexual access to her. A couple hundred more can get you a longer term girlfriend experience.

That is one path to these "elite"(physically elite, anyway) women. Many men aren't willing to go that route though(for obvious reasons). They prefer dating.

Quote: I've never been one for prostitutes. For 1, it's usually illegal, usually expensive, and never fully enjoyable because you have to be extra careful, with condoms, no oral, etc. Plus, just knowing in the back of your mind that this girl doesn't really like you, or even find you attractive, isn't very sexy to me. Lastly, it's very rare that I actually see a 9 on redbook or other stripper/escort sites. At least here in the Bay. Every bachelor party I've ever helped plan never had strippers that looked like their pictures on the website! Lol.
It isn't just about that. I know that whether it's now or 10 years from now, I'm going to want a girl to settle down with, and when I do I'm going to want her to be hot, with a good personality.

Quote:Yes. Yes, you can obtain a girl of 8-10 standard as an average looking guy with well above average game. Don't let anyone stop you for goin after your dream (girl). Go after what you want. I've seen many ugly dudes without money scoring hot girls to tell me you definitely can do it with average looks.

You must truly believe you are better than her to make it happen though. (Inner game) It also depends on your market as well. For example, an 8 in Winnipeg will be far more attainable than an 8 in LA.

Keeping her is another story. But, even if she goes, you can replace her with another 8-10.

Thats another gold plated piece of textual truth right there. Location also counts. Its in our nature to want 9-10s. Everyone says its the game that counts,even more than with 7-8s. I've had less than 5 I could call solid 9s and can only say one thing:don't do what the other thirsty dudes do,ie don't pedestalize.In fact put her in her place as fast as possible,preferably in front of her friends.
Immediately,she will come back down to earth,hopefully landing on your dick.

Post: #43

(06-15-2011 07:27 AM)afronoob Wrote:  

(06-11-2011 10:59 AM)Urban Renaissance Man Wrote:  [quote='Athlone McGinnis

Escorts. $200-300 an hour can get you a solid, enthusiastic 9.5 and complete sexual access to her. A couple hundred more can get you a longer term girlfriend experience.

That is one path to these "elite"(physically elite, anyway) women. Many men aren't willing to go that route though(for obvious reasons). They prefer dating.

Quote: I've never been one for prostitutes. For 1, it's usually illegal, usually expensive, and never fully enjoyable because you have to be extra careful, with condoms, no oral, etc. Plus, just knowing in the back of your mind that this girl doesn't really like you, or even find you attractive, isn't very sexy to me. Lastly, it's very rare that I actually see a 9 on redbook or other stripper/escort sites. At least here in the Bay. Every bachelor party I've ever helped plan never had strippers that looked like their pictures on the website! Lol.
It isn't just about that. I know that whether it's now or 10 years from now, I'm going to want a girl to settle down with, and when I do I'm going to want her to be hot, with a good personality.

Quote:Yes. Yes, you can obtain a girl of 8-10 standard as an average looking guy with well above average game. Don't let anyone stop you for goin after your dream (girl). Go after what you want. I've seen many ugly dudes without money scoring hot girls to tell me you definitely can do it with average looks.

You must truly believe you are better than her to make it happen though. (Inner game) It also depends on your market as well. For example, an 8 in Winnipeg will be far more attainable than an 8 in LA.

Keeping her is another story. But, even if she goes, you can replace her with another 8-10.

Thats another gold plated piece of textual truth right there. Location also counts. Its in our nature to want 9-10s. Everyone says its the game that counts,even more than with 7-8s. I've had less than 5 I could call solid 9s and can only say one thing:don't do what the other thirsty dudes do,ie don't pedestalize.In fact put her in her place as fast as possible,preferably in front of her friends.
Immediately,she will come back down to earth,hopefully landing on your dick.

Location,Location,Location.

Here in Brazil is not rare to see a mediocre looking poor/middle class guy with game/swag hanging with a stunning Hottie on his arms, specially in smaller cities.And they keep those girls for a long time,not just a bang. Riga,Latvia (G datasheet) and Poland are probably similar on this.

Roosh said it all on the busted dudes text.

In the US where spoiled girls grew up watching crappy romantic comedies ; probably they expect a Tall, rich and handsome Doctor to appear in their lives.

So you'll need strong game/style cultural background etc to keep'em around for more then one bang.

But whats the point on chasing those bitches for LTR,anyway?

Mr.GM

Post: #44

My wife is perhaps 7 (after one kid) - and that's how I want her. I wouldn't want to deal with the attitude and high maintenance that comes with a 9 or 10. Or worry about every horndog that tries to hit on her whenever she goes out of the house alone.
I've banged a few 9's back in the day... After a few fucks not much difference really. I mean, you are looking at fucking your wife several thousand times over the course of your life - how long do you think before it gets boring anyway?

Post: #45

(06-15-2011 10:04 AM)K-man Wrote:  I've banged a few 9's back in the day... After a few fucks not much difference really. I mean, you are looking at fucking your wife several thousand times over the course of your life - how long do you think before it gets boring anyway?

And that's not even considering the fact that she probably won't stay a 9 for too long.

Post: #46

(06-15-2011 08:12 AM)Mr.GM Wrote:  In the US where spoiled girls grew up watching crappy romantic comedies ; probably they expect a Tall, rich and handsome Doctor to appear in their lives.

So you'll need strong game/style cultural background etc to keep'em around for more then one bang.

But whats the point on chasing those bitches for LTR,anyway?

Mr. GM hit the nail on the head here, I don't think I could have put it any better myself.

Post: #47

(06-15-2011 10:04 AM)K-man Wrote:  My wife is perhaps 7 (after one kid) - and that's how I want her. I wouldn't want to deal with the attitude and high maintenance that comes with a 9 or 10. Or worry about every horndog that tries to hit on her whenever she goes out of the house alone.
I've banged a few 9's back in the day... After a few fucks not much difference really. I mean, you are looking at fucking your wife several thousand times over the course of your life - how long do you think before it gets boring anyway?

If your wife is a 7, "horndogs" are trying to hit on her every time she goes out the house anyway! S

Like I said, I just wanted to get the general consensus of the guys on this forum concering their belief of an average guy getting a really hot girl. The consensus is "yes", which is nice to hear, but with a lot of effort or leaving the States entirely. These were all things I felt, but wanted to get other players' opinions.

For me, being with a hot girl is rather essential because I find I have lower tolerance for a girl that's a 7 or less. Not that it's right, but I find I'm more demanding from a 7 or less. When a girl 7 or less gets out of line, I can't help but to feel, " Wench, you're lucky to have me to begin with and now you want to pull that shit?" I might not say it, but I'm feeling it and I'm sure it comes out in the way I'm treating them when I'm mad. Also, while we're speaking a lot about looks, we can't forget the absolute need for the to be making a decent living. (Unless you're brining a girl back from another country, but even then she should have the potential for greatness, ie. college degree) Some of the guys are already doing this, but I'm learning to see the importance of class (When I say class, I'm talking how one was raised) and money. It does matter in the rating process and even in how appreciative a woman will be towards you.

Post: #48

(06-09-2011 03:56 PM)Urban Renaissance Man Wrote:  Ok, I have a question.... We all talk about attraction, and what it takes to pull certain women. I'm wondering, is there point where a guy has to be realistic as to what he can pull, or is it truly just a 'game over matter' situation, and anyone with enough game and time can pull an 8-10 scale girl? For example, As I've mentioned before on this forum, I think Hayden Pantttiere is my ideal of 9 1/2, darn near a 10. However, being that I'm 35, black, 5'6, live in the Bay Area instead of LA, Miami, NY, etc. and only in the $80,000 a year catagory, is someone of that level of beauty (Obviously I'm not talking about the real Hayden) totally unrealistic? Can an average looking, or even less than average looking man, middle class, but with good game and confidence, actually obtain his version of 'dream girl' or 9-10?

Hayden Panettiere a 9 1/2?
Mmm...I met her a couple of years ago when she came in with her mum for an audition...and frankly I wasnt impressed at all.
A 7- on my scale. But frankly the majority of the Hollywood actresses I met drop down the scale when met in person.

Anyway as the latins used to say "de gustibus non disputandum est" aka "one must not dispute about tastes".

That said, I think you can definitely get that 8-10 girl, of course you can! why? Because taking the case of Hayden Panettiere as an example, for other men she wont be a 8 at all while for you she is the dream girl :

Post: #49

(06-15-2011 06:56 PM)Oblivion77 Wrote:  

(06-09-2011 03:56 PM)Urban Renaissance Man Wrote:  Ok, I have a question.... We all talk about attraction, and what it takes to pull certain women. I'm wondering, is there point where a guy has to be realistic as to what he can pull, or is it truly just a 'game over matter' situation, and anyone with enough game and time can pull an 8-10 scale girl? For example, As I've mentioned before on this forum, I think Hayden Pantttiere is my ideal of 9 1/2, darn near a 10. However, being that I'm 35, black, 5'6, live in the Bay Area instead of LA, Miami, NY, etc. and only in the $80,000 a year catagory, is someone of that level of beauty (Obviously I'm not talking about the real Hayden) totally unrealistic? Can an average looking, or even less than average looking man, middle class, but with good game and confidence, actually obtain his version of 'dream girl' or 9-10?

Hayden Panettiere a 9 1/2?
Mmm...I met her a couple of years ago when she came in with her mum for an audition...and frankly I wasnt impressed at all.
A 7- on my scale. But frankly the majority of the Hollywood actresses I met drop down the scale when met in person.

Anyway as the latins used to say "de gustibus non disputandum est" aka "one must not dispute about tastes".

That said, I think you can definitely get that 8-10 girl, of course you can! why? Because taking the case of Hayden Panettiere as an example, for other men she wont be a 8 at all while for you she is the dream girl ::razz

Well, she was like 17 then, wasn't she? Plus, I don't how dolled up she was. But I get your point. Not every person is going to view my 10 as a 10. In fact, what makes the situation even a bit more possible is that not every you view as a 10 is going to see herself as a 10. So, As long as you aren't blowing her ego up, you might have a chance.

Post: #50

Luck is about 80% of it.

For the other 20% you can do things to help you accidentally get one. hanging out where they do, getting in those circles, being at your absolute best, etc. You're not just dealing with her attraction for average guys, but all the other guys at are vying for her. Most of of the time you see an average guy with a stunner, it's by accident. They grew up together, high school sweethearts, stuff like that. You can catch girls on the rebound and during other vulnerable times.

Having game just lets you get out on the playing field. It doesn't put you ahead of the pack, it's just your ticket to ride.