Post: #1

Ok, I have a question.... We all talk about attraction, and what it takes to pull certain women. I'm wondering, is there point where a guy has to be realistic as to what he can pull, or is it truly just a 'game over matter' situation, and anyone with enough game and time can pull an 8-10 scale girl? For example, As I've mentioned before on this forum, I think Hayden Pantttiere is my ideal of 9 1/2, darn near a 10. However, being that I'm 35, black, 5'6, live in the Bay Area instead of LA, Miami, NY, etc. and only in the $80,000 a year catagory, is someone of that level of beauty (Obviously I'm not talking about the real Hayden) totally unrealistic? Can an average looking, or even less than average looking man, middle class, but with good game and confidence, actually obtain his version of 'dream girl' or 9-10?

Post: #2

Here is the thing.

To obtain and 9-10 you need to have one or more of these traits.

Good Looks
Money
Fame
Advanced Game

An ugly non rich guy with no game or personality can not get 9.

Without goodlooks and/or money a regular guy is gonna have a hard time getting a 9-10 for anything other than a ONS.

Guys need to be realistic. Just like girls need to be.

Post: #3

People didnt term the phrase "she is out of your league" for nothing.

The most important thing is to not be UGLY. If you are average than you will have a shot with style and personality.

This is ovcourse talking about non rich or famous guys.

Post: #4

(06-09-2011 03:56 PM)Urban Renaissance Man Wrote:  Ok, I have a question.... We all talk about attraction, and what it takes to pull certain women. I'm wondering, is there point where a guy has to be realistic as to what he can pull, or is it truly just a 'game over matter' situation, and anyone with enough game and time can pull an 8-10 scale girl? For example, As I've mentioned before on this forum, I think Hayden Pantttiere is my ideal of 9 1/2, darn near a 10. However, being that I'm 35, black, 5'6, live in the Bay Area instead of LA, Miami, NY, etc. and only in the $80,000 a year catagory, is someone of that level of beauty (Obviously I'm not talking about the real Hayden) totally unrealistic? Can an average looking, or even less than average looking man, middle class, but with good game and confidence, actually obtain his version of 'dream girl' or 9-10?

Yes. Yes, you can obtain a girl of 8-10 standard as an average looking guy with well above average game. Don't let anyone stop you for goin after your dream (girl). Go after what you want. I've seen many ugly dudes without money scoring hot girls to tell me you definitely can do it with average looks.

You must truly believe you are better than her to make it happen though. (Inner game) It also depends on your market as well. For example, an 8 in Winnipeg will be far more attainable than an 8 in LA.

Keeping her is another story. But, even if she goes, you can replace her with another 8-10.

Post: #5

An average looking guy with average game and average income ain't going to come up on a girl like that in America. Just not realistic.

Post: #6

To be honest.

If you are 3, I dont care how much game you have. You aint getting no dime.

Post: #7

A girl's 1-10 scale is a lot different than ours. We only judge on looks while girls are generally less shallow. Any girl who isn't a complete slut won't date a guy who looks like a model if he is a giant douche. Likewise, if you have a killer personality but look like the elephant man, you won't get play either.

Generally speaking, dressing well and having good style can bump you up a point or two based on the girl. Having tight game with great style and swagger is a deadly combo.

Luckystar is spot on about location. It makes a huge difference in their attitude. Also, being black you would obviously stand out in venues that are predominately white, especially with great style/swagger.

Post: #8

Absolutely, most good looking girls (in the greater DC area and everywhere in Ohio) that I've seen seem to be with guys that are at least two or three points below them, over all. I've seen really cute girls with some gutter trash in basketball shorts and a wife beater who, by what I know of male attractiveness, are "average" looking.

Its better in the DC are then it was in Ohio, but rarely do I see a girl with an equally attractive guy, though I would note that I never see 9+ girls with these kinds of guys, but 6-8 almost all the time.

Maybe its a biased sample and I'm simply not paying close enough attention or I'm judging a lot of these guys to hard, but this really held true.

One of the big themes in Bang was how Roosh never though of himself as being that good looking, yet with the proper mindset and knowledge that he's able to get almost any girl he wants.

One of the biggest revelations I've had since being introduced to all this is that women aren't nearly as shallow as I used to think, which was kind of a bitch to deal with because it meant I couldn't simply gym myself into a girls pants.

Chef In Jeans
A culinary website for men

Post: #9

This is an interesting topic, I think everyone has got some good input, esp. Dash, as a guy will need to bring some serious value to an 8-10 female in order to attract, but more importantly KEEP her. If you're shorter and avg. looking, than things such as money, fame, matrix-level game, etc. will be necessary.

I hate to say it, but in this day in age, I am beginning to think that very attractive women, are even more superficial than men, because they not only factor in a man's looks, but also more material stuff like (what kinda car he has, house, money, profession, etc.), in addition to this status also plays as well. Like on Dr. Dre's Chronic 2001 album, on one track, dude is ranting about women today and says, "whatever happened to loving a nigga with a bus pass?". It seems that in this day in age, every chick wants to date a pro-athlete, musician, etc., while obv. this isn't realistic for the vast majority of women, this dynamic still applies on a smaller scale level.

Another thing I am realizing is that most really hot women, are complete bitches. They have been pampered, spoiled, put on the pedestal all their lives, so they think they are fucking princesses, have the egos to match, and society reinforces this. I recently broke up with this psycho bitch who I now through therapy have come to realize has what's known as "borderline personality disorder"... Here is a link to an article about it: http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-s...r-and-sex/ ... Anyways, this girl was the hottest girl I'd ever dated, she's an 8.5 on my scale, but might as well be a 10 for the town I live in.

She was a psycho bitch and often times would cut me down, be verbally abusive, play serious head games, was extremely manipulative, and deceptive...., but I completely over-valued her due to her looks and the wild sex I was having with her. In the end, I got seriously fucked over by her, and I now know how shitty of a person she is, and how fucking ugly her personality is. I should have never endured such bullshit, just to continue to date and fuck a hot slut. I guess my point, is a lot of hot women are complete bitches and have horrible personalities.

If you are just an average joe, and you land a truly fine women, be prepared for a lot of b.s. and high maintanance, not to mention contending with her belief that she's too good for you, and she'll always hold shit over your head. In the end a lot of this bitches are always looking to trade up, and when a taller, better looking, more successful guy comes along, pooff she's gone.

Post: #10

Yea, I pretty much cant stand 99% of most 9-10's. They are superficial bitches.

I prefer cool down to earth 8's

Post: #11

Thats Why I say it:Never LTR a girl because of looks.fuck that.

Like Dash said,stick with the cool 8's.A 9/10 will be probably DTF for a couple times,but princess-ego girls are not worth it to keep longterm,doesn't matter how good you look.

Forget chasing does bitches for relationships.If one good-hearted 9/10 ever loves you truly,maybe you can think about settling.But don't put them as your goal.

Post: #12

(06-09-2011 07:11 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  Yea, I pretty much cant stand 99% of most 9-10's. They are superficial bitches.

I prefer cool down to earth 8's

I agree. Not sure why any average guy would even want a 10 given the maintenance such a woman would take the keep. Plus the lack of any personality. I saw Kim Kardashian being interviewed on a late night talk show. She's so dumb and vapid she'd probably be a cashier at Walmart if it wasn't for her looks. A 7+ or an 8 with a sweet, down to earth personality that looks good in a dress is fine enough for me.

Post: #13

Interesting on the varying opinions I remember a topic like this coming up on approaching the best looking women in a venue and the overall opinion was that these tend to be the more down to earth girls because they're rarely approached as anything besides a nice pair of tits. If you went up to them casually and didn't make it obvious that you were only going up to them because of their beauty you'd do well.

Chef In Jeans
A culinary website for men

Post: #14

Kim has one of the finest looking pussies i have ever seen. sculpted thing of beauty. not to mention the perfect ass and tits.

Post: #15

(06-09-2011 07:36 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  Interesting on the varying opinions I remember a topic like this coming up on approaching the best looking women in a venue and the overall opinion was that these tend to be the more down to earth girls because they're rarely approached as anything besides a nice pair of tits. If you went up to them casually and didn't make it obvious that you were only going up to them because of their beauty you'd do well.

This! Hot girls often complain that only assholes and players will talk to them because average guys are too intimidated by them. Game is very effective here because they're so used to guys pulling beta moves and trying hard not to fuck up. I'd rather spend my time going after dimes than average girls who get hit on all the time and think they're hot shit.

Post: #16

there is always dumb fucks hitting on extremely hot women.

i see it every time i go out. ill be like look, see that dude approaching that dime, 20 bucks says he will get shot down in 3.....2....1

Post: #17

(06-09-2011 07:36 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  Interesting on the varying opinions I remember a topic like this coming up on approaching the best looking women in a venue and the overall opinion was that these tend to be the more down to earth girls because they're rarely approached as anything besides a nice pair of tits. If you went up to them casually and didn't make it obvious that you were only going up to them because of their beauty you'd do well.

Overall, I disagree. Sure there will always be those "diamond in the rough" girls out there who are really hot (8.5+) and are down to earth and have a good personality, but those girls are few and far between (and also normally not your typical bar/club rats). I don't doubt that a lot of guys are too shy or intimidated to approach really hot girls, but that's not every guy in the venue, like Dash pointed out, you better believe these girls get stepped to all the time. Go to LA, NYC, Miami, etc., and see how receptive and cool 9-10 caliber women will be. My guess, is that the average guy will get blown out 9 out of 10 times.

Post: #18

(06-09-2011 08:28 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  Go to LA, NYC, Miami, etc., and see how receptive and cool 9-10 caliber women will be. My guess, is that the average guy will get blown out 9 out of 10 times.

But don't you think 9-10s will be more receptive in an place where there's lots of 9-10s? As opposed to meeting them at a place where they are rare.

Post: #19

Today I had a bad day in general but also didn't do that well when I was approaching with my buddy. I was walking with him and asking myself why he's better than me at game even though he's so much shorter and extremely skinny. I am taller, have better teeth, and have a little bit of meat on my bones. His game is somewhat stronger than mine.

Looks don't matter much. They can be overcome by style and charisma.
Game is far more important. Develop it and you can truly go far beyond your looks. I feel that the average guy who gets into game doesn't push himself far enough or develop strong enough inner game. I'm sure 3-4 years in the game going out 3-4 days a week will turn an average looking dude into a guy who gets girls far beyond his looks. You can also work on your fitness if you feel you insecure about your looks. As you spend more time in the game you will probably start taking care of your fitness and improve your style to improve your superficial looks while also sharpening your game.

Post: #20

I think the answer to the question is yes, when was the last time you actually saw a hot girl dating a hot guy. Does not seem to be that regular, at least where I live. I try not to get into the habit of judging a book by it's cover, but I always hear other guys making comments about girls dating men beneath them.
As I get older I just feel women lwant a man, a real "man" not someone who gets highlights in his hair and is too into himself.
I also agree with what Luckystar sd about Location and supply/demand. I must say hats off to all the members who game in major markets like Miami/LA/NYC, I have heard some horror stories about dating in Miami.

Post: #21

(06-09-2011 10:49 PM)torontokid Wrote:  Today I had a bad day in general but also didn't do that well when I was approaching with my buddy. I was walking with him and asking myself why he's better than me at game even though he's so much shorter and extremely skinny. I am taller, have better teeth, and have a little bit of meat on my bones. His game is somewhat stronger than mine.

Looks don't matter much. They can be overcome by style and charisma.
Game is far more important. Develop it and you can truly go far beyond your looks. I feel that the average guy who gets into game doesn't push himself far enough or develop strong enough inner game. I'm sure 3-4 years in the game going out 3-4 days a week will turn an average looking dude into a guy who gets girls far beyond his looks. You can also work on your fitness if you feel you insecure about your looks. As you spend more time in the game you will probably start taking care of your fitness and improve your style to improve your superficial looks while also sharpening your game.

Looks matter alot in this regard.

If you UGLY (1-4) and not rich or famous, you ARE not gonna get a dime piece 99& of the time.

You have to be altleast be average looking.

I dont care how much game you have, if you are straight busted you can forget it.

If you are rich or famous than looks dont matter AT ALL.

Post: #22

(06-09-2011 03:56 PM)Urban Renaissance Man Wrote:  Ok, I have a question.... We all talk about attraction, and what it takes to pull certain women. I'm wondering, is there point where a guy has to be realistic as to what he can pull, or is it truly just a 'game over matter' situation, and anyone with enough game and time can pull an 8-10 scale girl? For example, As I've mentioned before on this forum, I think Hayden Pantttiere is my ideal of 9 1/2, darn near a 10. However, being that I'm 35, black, 5'6, live in the Bay Area instead of LA, Miami, NY, etc. and only in the $80,000 a year catagory, is someone of that level of beauty (Obviously I'm not talking about the real Hayden) totally unrealistic? Can an average looking, or even less than average looking man, middle class, but with good game and confidence, actually obtain his version of 'dream girl' or 9-10?

Very unrealistic in the states, as the girls here are very stuck-up, let alone one that is 10.

Post: #23

Anything is possible. I've fucked a couple of 9's before I even got into this game. No idea how I did it but it happened.

Do y'all think its a good idea to game 9's and 10's any different than other hoes? I'm curious to hear the older playas opinions on all this. Is it worth it to go through all the bullshit? I guess everyone has their own opinion on that.

Post: #24

Personally, I think social proof can get you anything.

Post: #25

(06-10-2011 04:14 AM)CupCake Wrote:  Personally, I think social proof can get you anything.

Yes, and celebrity is just the most advanced form of social proof.