Post: #1

http://www.wdrb.com/story/29650818/hillv...to-privacy

Quote:“Well, I came out and it was down by the neighbor’s house, about 10 feet off the ground, looking under their canopy that they’ve got under their back yard," Merideth said. "I went and got my shotgun and I said, ‘I’m not going to do anything unless it’s directly over my property.’"

That moment soon arrived, he said.

"Within a minute or so, here it came," he said. "It was hovering over top of my property, and I shot it out of the sky."

"I didn't shoot across the road, I didn't shoot across my neighbor's fences, I shot directly into the air," he added.

It wasn't long before the drone's owners appeared.

"Four guys came over to confront me about it, and I happened to be armed, so that changed their minds," Merideth said

"They asked me, 'Are you the S-O-B that shot my drone?' and I said, 'Yes I am,'" he said. "I had my 40 mm Glock on me and they started toward me and I told them, 'If you cross my sidewalk, there's gonna be another shooting.'"

A short time later, Merideth said the police arrived.

"There were some words exchanged there about my weapon, and I was open carry – it was completely legal," he said. "Long story short, after that, they took me to jail for wanton endangerment first degree and criminal mischief…because I fired the shotgun into the air."

Merideth said he was disappointed with the police response.

Post: #2

If it was birdshot, then there is no problem.
I don't think he will be charged with anything.

Post: #3

The man is looking to pursue the drone owners with trespassing which I feel is great. I hope the prosecutor drops the charges on Merideth and charges the drone owners.

They were hovering in private property and might has well jumped the fence. They may create a precedent where drone operators can fly drones into people's yards with no consequences for invading on people's privacy. I would have shot it down too.

It does open another question as well. How high does your property line go above your house?

Post: #4

Wow. I feel like stories similar to this are going to become more common.

Post: #5

Apparently there is a reward for drone operators that flee their drones during a recent fire near LA. The drones in the air resulted in water dropping planes to be grounded for safety reasons. Which allowed the fires to move faster and spread wider than they should have.

Great I get it drones are cool, but people are assholes if it gets in the way of safety or privacy.

Post: #6

(07-30-2015 09:34 PM)realologist Wrote:  The man is looking to pursue the drone owners with trespassing which I feel is great. I hope the prosecutor drops the charges on Merideth and charges the drone owners.

They were hovering in private property and might has well jumped the fence. They may create a precedent where drone operators can fly drones into people's yards with no consequences for invading on people's privacy. I would have shot it down too.

It does open another question as well. How high does your property line go above your house?

Theoretically it's all the way to space, but in the US you generally can do what you want up to 500 feet, but it's ruled on a case-by-case basis.

The real problem is that he discharged a firearm within city limits. That's only allowed if he was "...discharging a firearm when lawfully defending person or property."

He used #8 birdshot so there was no danger from fallout but it's tough to call this a defense of property. He'd be fine if he threw a basketball at it.

Post: #7

(07-30-2015 10:03 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  

(07-30-2015 09:34 PM)realologist Wrote:  The man is looking to pursue the drone owners with trespassing which I feel is great. I hope the prosecutor drops the charges on Merideth and charges the drone owners.

They were hovering in private property and might has well jumped the fence. They may create a precedent where drone operators can fly drones into people's yards with no consequences for invading on people's privacy. I would have shot it down too.

It does open another question as well. How high does your property line go above your house?

Theoretically it's all the way to space, but in the US you generally can do what you want up to 500 feet, but it's ruled on a case-by-case basis.

The real problem is that he discharged a firearm within city limits. That's only allowed if he was "...discharging a firearm when lawfully defending person or property."

He used #8 birdshot so there was no danger from fallout but it's tough to call this a defense of property. He'd be fine if he threw a basketball at it.

He should have used a slingshot.

Post: #8

If these assholes with drones don't quickly learn to police themselves, someone else is going to do it for them.

Post: #9

(07-30-2015 10:03 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  

(07-30-2015 09:34 PM)realologist Wrote:  The man is looking to pursue the drone owners with trespassing which I feel is great. I hope the prosecutor drops the charges on Merideth and charges the drone owners.

They were hovering in private property and might has well jumped the fence. They may create a precedent where drone operators can fly drones into people's yards with no consequences for invading on people's privacy. I would have shot it down too.

It does open another question as well. How high does your property line go above your house?

Theoretically it's all the way to space, but in the US you generally can do what you want up to 500 feet, but it's ruled on a case-by-case basis.

The real problem is that he discharged a firearm within city limits. That's only allowed if he was "...discharging a firearm when lawfully defending person or property."

He used #8 birdshot so there was no danger from fallout but it's tough to call this a defense of property. He'd be fine if he threw a basketball at it.

Would still be vandalism...he doesn't own it. If someone parks a car on your property, you can have it towed, but you're not allowed to set it on fire because you're irritated.

Post: #10

(07-30-2015 10:22 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

(07-30-2015 10:03 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  

(07-30-2015 09:34 PM)realologist Wrote:  The man is looking to pursue the drone owners with trespassing which I feel is great. I hope the prosecutor drops the charges on Merideth and charges the drone owners.

They were hovering in private property and might has well jumped the fence. They may create a precedent where drone operators can fly drones into people's yards with no consequences for invading on people's privacy. I would have shot it down too.

It does open another question as well. How high does your property line go above your house?

Theoretically it's all the way to space, but in the US you generally can do what you want up to 500 feet, but it's ruled on a case-by-case basis.

The real problem is that he discharged a firearm within city limits. That's only allowed if he was "...discharging a firearm when lawfully defending person or property."

He used #8 birdshot so there was no danger from fallout but it's tough to call this a defense of property. He'd be fine if he threw a basketball at it.

Would still be vandalism...he doesn't own it. If someone parks a car on your property, you can have it towed, but you're not allowed to set it on fire because you're irritated.

Can that car be used to spy on you and invade your privacy?

Post: #11

He's obviously in the right. What the state ends up doing to him is a separate issue.

Post: #12

This guy could be in some serious trouble.

First, the FAA regulates the safety of all airspace, including at less than 500 feet above a person's personal property.

http://www.faa.gov/news/updates/?newsId=76240

Second, issues related to "drone law" are not fully settled, but the FAA wants drones to be considered "aircraft"

http://thehill.com/policy/transportation...f-aircraft

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/1.1

So this guy shot down what might be considered an "aircraft" in space regulated by the FAA. That's a recipe for being fucked by the federal government.

I am not saying that I want drone operators to be free to fly their drones over anyone's private property, but I don't see things going well for this guy.

Post: #13

(07-30-2015 10:03 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  

(07-30-2015 09:34 PM)realologist Wrote:  The man is looking to pursue the drone owners with trespassing which I feel is great. I hope the prosecutor drops the charges on Merideth and charges the drone owners.

They were hovering in private property and might has well jumped the fence. They may create a precedent where drone operators can fly drones into people's yards with no consequences for invading on people's privacy. I would have shot it down too.

It does open another question as well. How high does your property line go above your house?

Theoretically it's all the way to space, but in the US you generally can do what you want up to 500 feet, but it's ruled on a case-by-case basis.

The real problem is that he discharged a firearm within city limits. That's only allowed if he was "...discharging a firearm when lawfully defending person or property."

He used #8 birdshot so there was no danger from fallout but it's tough to call this a defense of property. He'd be fine if he threw a basketball at it.

This is where a guy needs to be smart.

Sure, blast that thing out of the sky. When the strokes flying it show up just sit there with your Busch Light and say "What are you talking about?"

Admit nothing.

If the guy shut his mouth he'd still be sitting on his porch drinking cheap beer.

Post: #14

Agreed with his right to destroy the drone invading his property. I doubt the the trouble he may be is that issue, its local and/or state laws about discharging his weapon that might come into play, as well as stating "If you cross my sidewalk, there's gonna be another shooting"... thats where he became an idiot, and thats what will sink him.

Post: #15

(07-31-2015 04:33 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  Agreed with his right to destroy the drone invading his property. I doubt the the trouble he may be is that issue, its local and/or state laws about discharging his weapon that might come into play, as well ass stating "If you cross my sidewalk, there's gonna be another shooting"... thats where he became an idiot, and thats what will sink him.

There should be a cheap beer exemption in situations like this.

Post: #16

(07-31-2015 04:35 AM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

(07-31-2015 04:33 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  Agreed with his right to destroy the drone invading his property. I doubt the the trouble he may be is that issue, its local and/or state laws about discharging his weapon that might come into play, as well ass stating "If you cross my sidewalk, there's gonna be another shooting"... thats where he became an idiot, and thats what will sink him.

There should be a cheap beer exemption in situations like this.

That reminded me- if I'm not mistaken, you are in WI from what I remember in the "Is my ride alpha or beta" thread. I was drinking a Leinie's when reading that thread. Amazing neurotransmitting properties beer can have with memory

Post: #17

Drones are the future. I wrote a tech report on drones in college 15 years ago pointing to their possible application in the military, governmental surveillance and for organized crime. Little did I know at the time how ahead of the pack my predictions were.

With this said, am I the only one though that's curious as to why 4 dudes are flying a drone over a residential neighborhood and are determined enough to start cracking knuckles over the loss? I'd be interested in the motives of these guys.

Post: #18

(07-31-2015 04:43 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

(07-31-2015 04:35 AM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

(07-31-2015 04:33 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  Agreed with his right to destroy the drone invading his property. I doubt the the trouble he may be is that issue, its local and/or state laws about discharging his weapon that might come into play, as well ass stating "If you cross my sidewalk, there's gonna be another shooting"... thats where he became an idiot, and thats what will sink him.

There should be a cheap beer exemption in situations like this.

That reminded me- if I'm not mistaken, you are in WI from what I remember in the "Is my ride alpha or beta" thread. I was drinking a Leinie's when reading that thread. Amazing neurotransmitting properties beer can have.

Leinie's is good stuff, even if it does give me a raging hangover.

Honey Weiss is the bomb. And still made in Chippewa Falls even though they are owned by Miller.

Leinie's Red is good as well.

Spotted Cow is vastly overrated. I can say that since everyone outside the state wants it, but can't get it.

Edit-I was disappointed to see that Wisconsin's beer biz dropped down to just 8 billion dollars last year. Not bad for 4.5 million people I guess....

Post: #19

(07-31-2015 04:44 AM)Vicious Wrote:  Drones are the future. I wrote a tech report on drones in college 15 years ago pointing to their possible application in the military, governmental surveillance and for organized crime. Little did I know at the time how ahead of the pack my predictions were.

With this said, am I the only one though that's curious as to why 4 dudes are flying a drone over a residential neighborhood and are determined enough to start cracking knuckles over the loss? I'd be interested in the motives of these guys.

" Well, I came out and it was down by the neighbor’s house, about 10 feet off the ground, looking under their canopy that they’ve got under their back yard, ." Being naive would have me say those 4 guys pool their money together for props and adventure of having one, but this sentence is alarming.

Post: #20

(07-31-2015 04:49 AM)Hotwheels Wrote:  Leinie's is good stuff, even if it does give me a raging hangover.

Honey Weiss is the bomb. And still made in Chippewa Falls even though they are owned by Miller.

Leinie's Red is good as well.

Spotted Cow is vastly overrated. I can say that since everyone outside the state wants it, but can't get it.

Edit-I was disappointed to see that Wisconsin's beer biz dropped down to just 8 billion dollars last year. Not bad for 4.5 million people I guess....

Honey Weiss accounts for probably 50% of my alcohol intake these days. Just so damn good with a variety of food as well. I'm surprised Miller hasn't tried to test it in other markets, I think it'd be widely popular. Maybe there isn't enough production capability

Post: #21

In the UK I believe the law gives the rights to aircraft authority to fly over peoples houses, anything else is trespassing.

I want to know why this drone was flying over peoples property. Were they checking out the place before planning to break in? Nothing better than recording with a GoPro/Iphone the places you want to steal from.

Post: #22

(07-31-2015 05:38 AM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  In the UK I believe the law gives the rights to aircraft authority to fly over peoples houses, anything else is trespassing.

That's true but there are limits, helicopters don't have the right to hover over someone's property, especially if there's a danger of recording something private - like your wife sunbathing nude.

(07-31-2015 05:38 AM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  I want to know why this drone was flying over peoples property. Were they checking out the place before planning to break in? Nothing better than recording with a GoPro/Iphone the places you want to steal from.

He says they were buzzing everyone's property, even suggesting they were spying on a neighbor's teenage daughter sunbathing. I think they just thought it was funny to fly a drone around the area...doubt there was anything nefarious going one.

We know it isn't about attacking the drone per se, there are many accounts of drones being intentionally knocked down with no legal trouble. The issue is discharging a firearm. There are examples of people using water hoses, balls, nets, towels, etc., to take them down and, while charges are sometimes filed, nothing ever comes of it.

Drones aren't like cars or animals or people who may wander onto your property. This should be no different than finding a spycam attached to a tree in your yard, if you shot at that, police would still be pissed you shot a gun (if that's restricted in your city), but they'd conduct an investigation to see who placed it there and arrest them.

There's a good paper about this called Self Defense Against Robots:

Quote:The types of problems that drones are likely to cause—noise, dust, low overflights—would ordinarily require multiple instances of inappropriate conduct by a single party before creating a right to sue and thus a right to self‐help.

But also:

Quote:The argument for permitting self‐help in response to the tort of intrusion on seclusion starts with the two fundamental reasons for permitting self‐help at all. The intrusion creates an exigency in which resort to legally administered remedies would be impractical, as any robot equipped with a radio or a cell‐phone chip can transmit the data it records in seconds. Worse, the damage from intrusive recordings may be impossible to remedy after the fact. One cannot purchase new dignity. Second, even violent self‐help against an overflying drone poses a reduced risk of breaching the peace compared to the ordinary self‐help case. Attacking a drone is not the same as attacking its owner directly.

And:

Quote:If one is entitled to assume the worst then, in the absence of persuasive notice that the robot is harmless, the victim of robotic trespass frequently will be privileged to employ violent selfhelp.

http://robots.law.miami.edu/2014/wp-cont...h-2014.pdf

Post: #23

There is something else in this story:

Quote:"It was just hovering above our house and it stayed for a few moments and then she finally waved and it took off," said neighbor Kim VanMeter.

VanMeter has a 16-year-old daughter who lays out at their pool. She says a drone hovering with a camera is creepy and weird.

"I just think you should have privacy in your own backyard," she said.

When the drone was returned it's SIM card was not removed, so if the guy was taking pictures of girls he gets to keep them. This sets a dangerous precedent IMO, and to be honest the parents of that 16 year old kid should have every right to even shoot a pervert doing something like this, not just his drone.

Post: #24

(07-30-2015 10:03 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  

(07-30-2015 09:34 PM)realologist Wrote:  It does open another question as well. How high does your property line go above your house?

Theoretically it's all the way to space, but in the US you generally can do what you want up to 500 feet, but it's ruled on a case-by-case basis.

While theoretically true, it's only the starting point of the law. Your ownership rights above your property are limited.

It's not entirely settled law, but in the US, any navigable airspace over 500 feet to 1000 feet above your property is considered "public airspace." Its about the same in the UK, I believe. So you can't prohibit commercial airplanes from flying over your house and stuff like that.

Also, zoning laws can have an impact, such as prohibiting you from building your house or other structures over a certain height, or even from blocking a view, blocking light, etc. There are more restrictions than you might think, especially in places where horizontal space is limited like New York or places where views are valuable like San Francisco.

You can also sell your rights to the air over your property, which can be important in you buy property in a place like New York City, for example -- if the previous owner sold the air above the property, then you probably aren't getting that ownership back when you buy the property.

I don't expect the government to stand up for anyone's personal property rights on this, so I suspect we'll see "air rights" restricted to allow drone operation, too. I think the FAA has already started moving down this road, actually. Now, that would kill the "trespass" aspect of your rights, but it wouldn't necessarily kill the "harassment" or "interference" protections.

In other words, a helicopter is allowed to use the "public air space" over your house to fly from point A to point B, but it doesn't necessarily have the right to hover 500 feet over your backyard, film your daughters in the pool or blast "Flight of the Valkyries" over its loudspeakers at 6 AM.

Post: #25

Check John Robb´s blog, Global Guerrillas. He talks about drones and its aplications. Is specially frightening the combination of drones+gps+caltrops+a highway. Drones are becoming a weapon.