Post: #1

NBA legend-turned-social commentator says in a new column for TIME that America needs to rethink the idea of feminine beauty. The impetus for his position is the recent body shaming Serena Williams was subjected to while she was winning her sixth career Wimbledon title.

Abdul-Jabbar contends the body shaming has little to do with race and more to do with the “misogynist idea” that women athletes must conform to a certain female beauty standard, which is often deemed more important that the actual athletics for which the athletes are known.

Here is the article: http://time.com/3964758/body-shaming-bla...-athletes/

Post: #2

Yes, Congress needs to start drafting a bill to force us all to believe this is attractive.

In her defense though:



WB



WNB



WB?



WNB?

Post: #3

"Hahaha, your abs are way too visible! Dork."

"Look at her ass, she doesn't have cellulite! So ugly."

It doesn't work. You can't be shamed if you don't secretly agree with it yourself.

Post: #4

What's the visual equivalence of tone deafness? Good ol' Kareem seems to have it, probably after getting choked out by Bruce Lee.

Post: #5

He must have ran out of money from his basketball career so now he needs to engage in some parasitism to buy a new Lamborghini...

Post: #6

Haha. It's difficult to determine whether people making these sort of claims are just very stupid, or have some sort of agenda. It's fair enough for media sources, like the New York Times, to spew this sort of stupidity because they know what they are doing and have an agenda, mostly concerned with making money by coddling insecure readers.

But there is no excuse for unaligned private citizens to be the origin of such nonsense. Beauty is a biological, rather than social, construct and as such the standards are pretty much baked into our minds/bodies and completely unchangeable. Whatever they say about "Rubenesque" this and that from the renaissance, and similar arguments. Some standards, like waist-hip ratios are completely universal. No tribe has ever been discovered that favoured a vastly different ratio. Also, youth, clear skin, symmetrical features etc. etc. These are universal positive traits in women and there is nothing any person or group, no matter what their resources or place in society, can do tho even slightly change these preferences that will register in any honest statistical analysis.

Post: #7

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar; Poor old man, his sight is failing

Post: #8

From the article:

Quote:We have established a definition of beauty so narrow that almost no one can live up to it. Women struggle to fit within the constrictions of social expectations of thin, youthful, sexuality as constricting as a Victorian corset. We display these paragons of beauty from billboards and magazine covers and Victoria Secret ads with the full knowledge that because of the use of photo-enhancing, lighting, makeup, and other morphing techniques, the women shown are as real as the CGI-created Hulk in the Avengers movies.

Who is this "we?" I didn't establish any standard. Anyone here establish a standard?

Oh, you mean the commercial interests (like the owners of Time magazine) established this standard. Oh, ok. I dare any magazine that focuses on women to start featuring whatever standard of beauty these people are advocating for. See how long it lasts. I know print media is dead anyway, but no advertiser will pay for space in a magazine that features the average American woman. Money talks and bullshit walks.

Isn't this an absolute indictment of the gullibility and weakness of a majority of women? They know these things are photoshopped, they know these images aren't real, but still they aspire to this fiction. What, they have no agency? No reasoning capability? Why can't women simply stop consuming mass media or just mentally reject it?

Post: #9

This is a guy who stuck it to so many women in his active day that when he dies we have to bronze his dick and put it in a museum.

Post: #10

(07-22-2015 10:38 AM)Vicious Wrote:  This is a guy who stuck it to so many women in his active day that when he dies we have to bronze his dick and put it in a museum.

That's the hilariously ironic part, he probably only banged top tier women now he's telling us, guys stop thinking HB 8's and 9's are feminine and only look at the 5's and 6's.

Fat is beautiful, bad skin is great, crooked yellow teeth are sexy.

Speak for yourself Kareem, actually go fuck yourself on this one.

(But you're a cool basketball player though)

Post: #11

That whole article is a bunch of sour grapes over Maria Sharapova earning more from endorsements than Serena Williams. Maria is far hotter (duh) for one. Also, I'd put money on white women being the primary spenders on tennis clothing, so it makes sense to market to them with Sharapova. I like seeing them both play for different reasons. Sharapova is excellent and a knockout in person. Serena is utterly dominant when she's on her game and it's special to see her play (I've gone to the US Open a number of times)

But I digress. He also talks about Misty Copeland being body shamed, but that's pretty normal in the bonkers world of ballet. Somehow I don't think there'd be much of a debate on the forum about her:

Post: #12

(07-22-2015 08:08 AM)dads Wrote:  

Is this "body shaming" or performance enhancing drug shaming?

As a very widely accepted general rule women should not:

1. Have such large and striated muscle mass on their arms like that; and

2. Have such a small percentage of body fat.

She even has the 3D delts that natty or not loves to say is often a tell-tale sign of gear in men, much less women.

I am going out on a limb and suggesting her T count is a bit above the range for a healthy woman her age.

Post: #13

Why is it always the time to rethink feminine beauty? Why are we having this conversation at least once a week in the media?

How come they don't ask women to:

1. Rethink the concept of "male wealth?"

2. Rethink the idea of "male success?"

3. Rethink the entire concept of worshiping male athletes?

4. Rethink why every woman on Match.com has a minimum height requirement of 5'10"?

Why is it always the men who have to change? This is a deep flaw within our culture -- and it is cultural more than biological, since other cultures aren't all this way. Heck, our culture wasn't always this way. Bet no one was telling Ben Franklin or Frank Sinatra who they should find attractive.

Post: #14

Quote:Sharapova, at 6 feet 2 and 130 pounds (Williams is 5 feet 9 and weighs 150 pounds), admits that that she wishes she could be even thinner: “I always want to be skinnier with less cellulite; I think that’s every girl’s wish.” (Is it? Should it be?) She says she does no weight training. “I can’t handle lifting more than five pounds. It’s just annoying, and it’s just too much hard work. And for my sport, I just feel like it’s unnecessary.” Yet she’s been beaten 17 times in a row by someone who has added that muscle necessary to excel. Does she want to be the highest-paid female athlete or the best one?

Muscles are pretty much useless in tennis; hip/waist rotation, limb length, and technique explain the bulkload of variation in ball-striking capability. Tennis technique erodes very rapidly. One literally needs to spend time hitting everyday just to maintain the status quo, so to the extent that weight-training cuts into that, it's a net-loss. You look across the side of the fence to men's tennis, where players like Federer and Djokovic look like they barely have enough arm strength to jerk off, but are certainly not lacking in the serve and groundstroke departments.

Another data point in the idea that a large motivation behind feminism is sour grapes, as BagelConsultant noted--and elevating the status of all women (particularly ugly ones), disguised behind the notion of equality of opportunity.

Maria Sharapova commands an income and degree of fame above which her tennis skills imply due to her looks; that is, she enjoys a female* and a female beauty premium. Not only do the PC-feminists avoid the conclusion that this is female privilege, they demand that all women should be able to enjoy this beauty premium.

We as "society" can't acknowledge that these are extra opportunities for Sharapova; we have to shriek that these are opportunities unjustly deprived from Williams.

*Since even the best women's players would get thrashed by no-name men.

WNB Serena. Would use a cast of her skull in Physical Anthropology class to demonstrate male facial morphology, though.

Post: #15

Kareem would be just another stick-figure scrub in today's NBA.

Post: #16

LOL she is a WNB in all four of those pictures. Just ghastly.

Post: #17

(07-22-2015 01:59 PM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  Kareem would be just another stick-figure scrub in today's NBA.

Way to body-shame Kareem.

Not every NBA big-man can conform to society's expectations that they all look like Serge Ibaka or Dwight Howard.

I am triggered.

Post: #18

Wonderful stance, Alcindor. It's very brave and progressive for you to lick your finger, lift it up to the wind, and pontificate on the position it is blowing.

I'll start rethinking feminine beauty when ESPN insists women redefine male beauty as it starts celebrating the physiques of Jake Long and Albert Hanesworth instead of Vernon Davis and Colin Kapernick. Until then, I'll let my personal tastes and a touch of biology direct me.

Post: #19

(07-22-2015 01:59 PM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  Kareem would be just another stick-figure scrub in today's NBA.

Maybe now that he is 68 years old, he would not be able to play in today's nba. If he was in his prime, I think he could help any team to a championship. My problem with Kareem is that he only ran hard during the playoffs during the latter part of his career.

Post: #20

(07-22-2015 02:55 PM)eradicator Wrote:  My problem with Kareem is that he only ran hard during the playoffs during the latter part of his career.

He'd have a word or two to say about that.

Post: #21

(07-22-2015 01:15 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  Why is it always the time to rethink feminine beauty? Why are we having this conversation at least once a week in the media?

How come they don't ask women to:

1. Rethink the concept of "male wealth?"

2. Rethink the idea of "male success?"

3. Rethink the entire concept of worshiping male athletes?

4. Rethink why every woman on Match.com has a minimum height requirement of 5'10"?

Why is it always the men who have to change? This is a deep flaw within our culture -- and it is cultural more than biological, since other cultures aren't all this way. Heck, our culture wasn't always this way. Bet no one was telling Ben Franklin or Frank Sinatra who they should find attractive.

True, but Franklin and Sinatra were nevertheless being told what to do, as men have been since the dawn of time. It's your duty as a male to be productive and to serve as an instrument of action or change for society. Put simply, if something needs doing, the culture isn't going to expect women to do it. Women can step up to the plate, and some do, but nobody really expects them to. On some level we seem to expect incompetence from women.

On one hand, I often sympathize with feminists who complain about these types of attitudes being patriarchal. And then I remember that when demands are being made of men, those demands are most often coming from women. Imagine as a man complaining that women condescend to you, while demanding that women do all the heavy lifting to make society a better place for you.

The funny thing about feminists is that most of them actually take great pride in carrying their own weight in their personal relationships with men, and yet their attitude toward men in the broader society is often very much different.

Personally, I think if feminists want equality, it would help to stop demanding men be the agents of social change for so many of their projects.

Post: #22

Pretty much sums up how the opinion of Kareem has gone.