Post: #1

Between catching Serena WIlliams in Wimbeldon and watching the women's world cup I had this thought. I'm not sure why this is though. From a genetic standpoint, wouldn't it make sense? You know, for having super babies, shouldn't a man be more attracted to Serena than Lucy Pinder? Yet most men aren't. Just for visual sake, here's Serena:



and here's Ms. Pinder:



So why are men more often than not attracted to Ms. Pinder over Serena? (Not a scientific poll, but this was the conclusion drawn from a poll of myself and several buddies).

Post: #2

Athleticism doesn't signal fertility.

Post: #3

Firstly, women who are naturally good at sports tend to be taller, stronger, and more physically built than the average woman. Such traits are usually unattractive form a male perspective. They also tend to be more masculine in their mannerisms. Since professional athletes get into their respective fields from a young age, females probably missed out on the opportunity to learn to be feminine.

Secondly, the whole notion of a any sport is who is better than who. Since men are obviously bigger and stronger, they tend to be better at most sport by default. Therefore seeing women do those same sports seems like political correct indigence of mediocrity at best.

Thirdly, women are usually represented sexually in some way by the mainstream media. When represented differently, nobody really cares.

Post: #4

Serena is not feminine and looks like a tranny. On the other hand I wouldn't mind impregnating some volleyball athletes...

Post: #5

(07-05-2015 08:14 PM)nek Wrote:  

When/where did Rafael Nadal play an exhibition in blackface and drag?

(07-05-2015 08:25 PM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  Athleticism doesn't signal fertility.

Yeah.

Why isn't female [X] valued more by men?

Because [X] doesn't signal fertility, where [X] can be athleticism, personality, career achievement, educational credentials...

Post: #6

It's a simple question of masculine vs feminine. In those pics Serena looks too hard and masculine, and Lucy looks soft, curvaceous and feminine. And I, like most straight men, am personally attracted to the feminine and not the masculine.

That being said, I do have a soft spot for fitness chicks. And if I ever do have kids and a family some day, I will be trying to find a girl who has the genetics I think would compliment my own and give our children a big advantage, so I understand your point about "super offspring"...

Post: #7

Post: #8

(07-05-2015 08:14 PM)nek Wrote:  

and here's Ms. Pinder:



So why are men more often than not attracted to Ms. Pinder over Serena? (Not a scientific poll, but this was the conclusion drawn from a poll of myself and several buddies).

This isn't a fair comparison. Serena would still look like a man, athlete or not. Like another posted above, you can find hot feminine athletic women (Alex Morgan and Sydney Leroux of the USWNT come to mind), and the men would be attracted to them as long as they're feminine.

Post: #9

(07-05-2015 08:53 PM)Dusty Wrote:  

Looks like she's gotten slimmer and her muscles are more defined; which is not my thing.

WB though.

Post: #10

(07-05-2015 08:58 PM)Game_Started Wrote:  

(07-05-2015 08:53 PM)Dusty Wrote:  

Looks like she's gotten slimmer and her muscles are more defined; which is not my thing.

WB though.

Maybe this was before she got fat?

Post: #11

(07-05-2015 08:55 PM)Game_Started Wrote:  

(07-05-2015 08:14 PM)nek Wrote:  

and here's Ms. Pinder:



So why are men more often than not attracted to Ms. Pinder over Serena? (Not a scientific poll, but this was the conclusion drawn from a poll of myself and several buddies).

This isn't a fair comparison. Serena would still look like a man, athlete or not. Like another posted above, you can find hot feminine athletic women (Alex Morgan and Sydney Leroux of the USWNT come to mind), and the men would be attracted to them as long as they're feminine.

Completely agree about this. That being said, if Alex Morgan and Sydney Leroux weren't athletes, they'd still be just as attractive. The point I'm making is that we don't seem to value athleticism at all (beyond being thin really). Wouldn't good athleticism signal good genes?

Post: #12

I don't usually use this word... but the answer is hypergamy. More accurately, the influence of male sexual choice on human evolution. High-quality female sexual traits signal superior genetic fitness.

Here is a great video that describes the difference between "natural selection" and "sexual selection" as an evolutionary pressure: Natural Selection & Sexual Selection: An Illustrated Introduction. This video covers "Birds of Paradise" where it is the male who evolves beautiful traits that are not at all useful for survival. Also notable (I don't remember if this is covered in this video specifically) is the way the female bird's senses co-evolve with the males. Each generation that the males get more beautiful, the females get more discriminating and more sensitive to slightist defects in the males. I think at this point humans can only speculate what sort of defect the female bird percieved in the male.

It's similar with humans, but reversed and more complex. Male choice is dominant, but not nearly as dominant as female choice is with the birds. Both beautiful females and discriminating males are a result of this sexual selection pressure, but other factors play a role as well. The truth is, athletic women copulate with a great deal of success. In the real world where most men are competing over 6s and 7s, female athleticism tends to be a desirable trait. Generally, men will prefer more feminine physical fitness, like dancing and yoga, but a certain amount of strength and coordination are desirable even if she's a soccer player or a kickboxer or something. Meanwhile, in the world of high 9s competing over top alphas, male choice is everything.

Post: #13

(07-05-2015 09:01 PM)Dusty Wrote:  

(07-05-2015 08:58 PM)Game_Started Wrote:  

(07-05-2015 08:53 PM)Dusty Wrote:  

Looks like she's gotten slimmer and her muscles are more defined; which is not my thing.

WB though.

Maybe this was before she got fat?

Damn

Post: #14

No reason to have done so in the past.

Athleticism =/= being fit and healthy.
It's something more.

In fact, female athletes go infertile sooner I believe.

Post: #15

My guess is male-like athleticism in women, meaning they are ugly as fuck and built more like a man than a woman, have higher levels of testosterone. Higher T levels in women also make them less fertile and less likely to carry a pregnancy full-term.* So biologically, men are predisposed to find specimens like the Williams Sisters, Martina Navratilova, and Billie Jean King repulsive. But not really, I'm told by ESPN that Serena is the embodiment of beauty.

* http://www.livestrong.com/article/482012...pregnancy/

Post: #16

(07-05-2015 09:01 PM)nek Wrote:  Completely agree about this. That being said, if Alex Morgan and Sydney Leroux weren't athletes, they'd still be just as attractive. The point I'm making is that we don't seem to value athleticism at all (beyond being thin really). Wouldn't good athleticism signal good genes?

For women, yes. They need to be selective in their men (athletic, tall, high status, ability to provide for her). We don't need to be as selective.

Post: #17

(07-05-2015 09:01 PM)Dusty Wrote:  Maybe this was before she got fat?

No. That GoPro vid is from this year. I've seen this pic around for at least a year. So she's gotten back in shape ... thankfully.

Post: #18

On a higher brain level, athletic women and other women with all-consuming purposes in life are unattractive because they are acting distinctly un-motherly. A good mother for your children is not going to be one with a life-dominating mission unless that mission is raising kids. She has to be able to set aside such things for the good of your children, and knowing what a top female athlete must do to compete disqualifies her from being thought of as a good mother. A female athlete does not project an image that she is capable of thinking of anyone as more important than herself.

Post: #19

Why isn't male sensitivity more valued by women? Why is it when I cry watching the Notebook, I'm not seen as attractive when compared to Brad Pitt.

Post: #20

(07-05-2015 08:25 PM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  Athleticism doesn't signal fertility.

Despite common belief, fertility is not the primary thing men desire. Beauty doesn't just signal fertility. Plenty of butt-ugly women are very fertile and plenty of beauties aren't. Female beauty itself is what signals good genes. A beautiful female signals that she's carrying good genes, which may very likely include genes for very athletic and masculine males as well as good babymaking genes.

The strongest correlation between beauty and fertility is in each individual woman. That's where people seem to get confused. It's true that a woman is most beautiful when she is most fertile. But that's because when you're looking at an individual woman, everything else but her age and health cancels out. In that situation, fertility trumps all. But when you are comparing different women to each other, fertility is just the beginning.

Post: #21

(07-05-2015 09:19 PM)Game_Started Wrote:  

(07-05-2015 09:01 PM)Dusty Wrote:  Maybe this was before she got fat?

No. That GoPro vid is from this year. I've seen this pic around for at least a year. So she's gotten back in shape ... thankfully.

Thank god for bulimia.

Post: #22

I think it's terrible. As someone from South America I find it downright appalling and nasty how women play soccer(football) here. Girls in my high school would have been considered butch lesbians if they ever kicked a ball. I made friends by playing soccer and getting into fights with my classmates there. It's insulting how american women can make the game I love be considered girly or effeminate.

Wait! There were some girls on the field with us! They were cheering on the bench.

Post: #23

(07-05-2015 09:02 PM)nek Wrote:  

(07-05-2015 09:01 PM)Dusty Wrote:  

(07-05-2015 08:58 PM)Game_Started Wrote:  

(07-05-2015 08:53 PM)Dusty Wrote:  

Looks like she's gotten slimmer and her muscles are more defined; which is not my thing.

WB though.

Maybe this was before she got fat?

Damn

Classic overcorrection.

Post: #24

During college and eventual University years I can speak from experience.

Athletic girls have the so-called alpha widow complex, but on steroids. If you manage to hook one of these girls its more than likely she was a pass-around for the team captains so realistically do you want to have a girl who laments her fallen status?

They have nice bodies but never date them.

Post: #25

I dunno. I find athletic chicks to be hot especially those that do volleyball. There was one in college I was really into, but she had this mole on her forehead that just ruined it for me. I think she got rid of it now though.