Trump would score major points with the Bern outs if he promised to de-schedule marijuana and leave it to the states for legalization.

There's no clever way for Hillary to spin it since most democrats relate to the free love pot smoking hippies. It would be a non-issue.

Leave the harder stuff up for enforcement so the police unions have something to justify their bloated budgets for.

Ghost Tiger,

That's the best anti-legalization article I've ever read. I got blocked on Twitter by telling a drug-legalization guy, "If you voluntarily make yourself less able to fulfill the needs of your community, why should your community voluntarily meet your needs?"

Decriminalization for the simple fact that treating marijuana recreational possession/use as a crime ties up so much law enforcement, prosecutorial, and correctional resources that could be spent more usefully or redirected in a manner more meaningful to society, i.e. creating a tiered penal system of prisons for punishment and segregation of hardened offenders and local 'correctional facilities' to rehabilitate and steer wayward citizens convicted of minor offenses towards of a path of useful contribution along with local 'jails' to throw in drunks, angry spouses, and otherwise disruptive folks in for a night to 'sleep it off' without career-ruining adjudications.

Also, it impedes the criminal justice corporation from continuing to profit off low-level, mostly victimless crimes (DWSLR, marijuana posession, public intoxication, most assault/batteries where two parties are fighting voluntarily).

But I digress...

Dicknixon,

Ask me how I know you didn't read the article Ghost Tiger posted.

(09-03-2016 08:38 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  Dicknixon,

Ask me how I know you didn't read the article Ghost Tiger posted.

Did you?

That article is about legalizing all drugs and spends more time talking about heroine, crack, opiates, and methadone than marijuana (which it doesn't even mention).

Weed is less inhibiting, less physically harmful, and less addictive than alcohol. The only reasons it is illegal are political and financial. Most of the issues in that article don't apply to marijuana, nor do most pro-marijuana voters think heroin and crack should be legal.

That article is filled to the brim with faulty analogies, but let's try not to get distracted too much.

Talking about criminal justice reform, like passing the REDEEM Act, reforming how mandatory minimum sentences are carried out (often many decades for non-violent offenses, for example the disparity in the sentence between crack use and ordinary cocaine use), and ending the federal war on drugs, or at least moving drug policy away from the Controlled Substances Act, would basically take away completely the Clinton camp's "racist" card, because nothing would be more beneficial to minority communities than such an approach. It would automatically make Trump friendlier to minority communities policy wise than Hillary Clinton. I can just imagine the talking heads exploding if something like that were done. The cognitive dissonance would be shit the likes of which you've never seen. I can easily imagine them saying something like "Trump's just doing this to go easier on white suburban kids who do drugs while using minority outreach as fodder."

You head would spin. Believe me.

I hope Trump's people read this forum, as I suspect some might, and that this message gets to them.

With this whole thing, think systems, not goals.

Speaking of Scott Adams, does anyone have his CNN interview from yesterday? Can't find it at the moment.

oh god... why Mike, why!

http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-tr...nce-2016-9

Quote:MIKE PENCE: 'Donald Trump and I are both going to release our tax returns'

Mike Pence said he and Donald Trump will publish their tax returns.

In an interview on NBC's "Meet the Press" focusing on the excerpts of Hillary Clinton's FBI interview that were published this week, the Republican vice-presidential candidate said "Donald Trump and I are both going to release our tax returns."

He added that he would publish his own next week.

Would love to see the context for that, guess we will tomorrow. Why even bring up e-mails, let alone say they're getting released? Unless Pence and Trump worked that out ahead of time, seems like a dumb thing to say.

I do like the idea of 4th dimensional chess-playing Trump, who's been preparing for a presidential run since 2012 and was paying taxes/giving charitable contributions/doing everything above board since then on purpose.

So, in a brilliant turn from 2012 where Romney's tax release hurt him, people frothing at the mouth about Trump's taxes finally get to see them and see there's... nothing there. Oh, they'd start asking for pre-2012 tax releases at that point, or find some other non-story to drive into the ground again (Trump University again, maybe) but would be a great win and take the wind out of their sails, especially since it's been the #1 talking point against him for most of the campaign. And of course, he'd release his returns at a press conference, nothing the number of days since Hillary's last one. Maybe voluntarily release his health records at the same time as his tax records just to further fuck with her/drive the narrative in his direction. That'd be nice...


In any case, there's no way Trump releases his taxes with the "IRS audit" still in effect, and with his talking shit about Romney doing the same thing 4 years ago, unless everything was beyond reproach. I'm assuming Pence has a "after his audit's over" addendum which was purposefully cut off from this clickbait-generating headline.

Lack of faith in drug legalization comes from a violence-minded tunnel vision view of how we maintain social order: that it's always up to some policeman threatening death if you do something disagreeable.

There are plenty of other ways. Social ostracism, barring from employment, coupled with no welfare and full gun rights for all, they'd slowly die out from starvation or being shot during attempted crimes. Coupled with full drug legalization, there would be no such thing as wealthy drug dealers, druggos would be uncool pennyless social scum which every family and community vigorously socially policed out of existence.

Before drugs became illegal (very recent), they were just considered tacky. Now it's cool and exclusive.

Society has plenty of other mechanisms for maintaining social order than just relying on a policeman and his gun.

(09-03-2016 08:19 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  Ghost Tiger,

That's the best anti-legalization article I've ever read. I got blocked on Twitter by telling a drug-legalization guy, "If you voluntarily make yourself less able to fulfill the needs of your community, why should your community voluntarily meet your needs?"

Glad you liked it. Dalrymple is a great writer, and that's a pseudonym by the way. His real name is Anthony Daniels and he's a retired British psychiatrist. I've read a lot of his books which are basically collections of essays on the decline of our culture. Note that the article I posted was written in 1997. When I read that, it was the first time I had ever heard of George Soros. It was long before Glenn Beck or Alex Jones started talking about him. Drug legalization is a cornerstone of Soros' destructive plans.

Cheers

(09-03-2016 07:22 PM)Ghost Tiger Wrote:  

(09-03-2016 06:50 PM)LeoneVolpe Wrote:  Yeah, I'm still not sold on the whole legalizing drugs argument. I understand the idea behind it, but I don't think that's a position Trump should take now. He's already courting enough controversy, let's just let the Trump Train continue along the track it's on (building the border wall, repealing and replacing Obamacare, negotiating new trade deals, etc.) Trump's been absolutely knocking it out of the park lately...I think he's got this.

Agreed. The topic is a landmine and there are solid philosophical and pragmatic arguments against legalizing drugs, all of which I personally agree with.

Theodore Dalrymple Wrote:Don’t Legalize Drugs

Advocates have almost convinced Americans that legalization will remove most of the evil that drugs inflict on society. Don’t believe them.

Theodore Dalrymple
Spring 1997

There is a progression in the minds of men: first the unthinkable becomes thinkable, and then it becomes an orthodoxy whose truth seems so obvious that no one remembers that anyone ever thought differently...
etc etc etc
...Surely we have already slid down enough slippery slopes in the last 30 years without looking for more such slopes to slide down.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/don%E2%...11758.html

All pointless fluff when you take into consideration that the vast body of federal thugs regulating drug use in America are the same ones importing the illicit drugs as fast as they can fly them over the border in official "shall not be searched" military aircraft.

But it's profitable for the federal scumbags involved, so regardless of whether drugs are bad, mmmkay, they're never going to disappear, mmmkay, because the feds flood the ghetto with drugs on one end, mmmkay, and they tax the citizen through the nose to build the police state they claim is in response to the problem they created in the first place, mmmkay?

It's a big joke wherein supporters of federal drug law enforcement are the punch line and the elite are laughing themselves all the way to the bank.

From the T to the P

(09-02-2016 11:38 PM)Rush87 Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 11:31 PM)Latinopan Wrote:  Trump is having a strong weekend right after a perfect week.

Live now

I want the campaign to release Trump diet and sleep schedule, HOLLY SHIT, this a 70 years old man giving speeches for hours standing day after day, press conferences, attacked from every side without stopping.

Even young men would not handle the amount of stress, and pressure, even something as simple as the voice would be showing sings of tiresome.

Yet, Trump is as strong or stronger than the day he launched his campaign.

How many calories is he taking every day?
How many calories is he burning every day?
How many hour is he sleeping?


We need datasheet on his routine.

Aspirin, KFC, steak and bacon. The man eats whatever he wants. He just has incredible drive and determination.

He also has a hot supermodel wife and a loving family for support. I doubt Trump would have that insane amount of drive and determination if it weren't for them.

(09-04-2016 06:23 AM)Khan Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 11:38 PM)Rush87 Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 11:31 PM)Latinopan Wrote:  Trump is having a strong weekend right after a perfect week.

Live now

I want the campaign to release Trump diet and sleep schedule, HOLLY SHIT, this a 70 years old man giving speeches for hours standing day after day, press conferences, attacked from every side without stopping.

Even young men would not handle the amount of stress, and pressure, even something as simple as the voice would be showing sings of tiresome.

Yet, Trump is as strong or stronger than the day he launched his campaign.

How many calories is he taking every day?
How many calories is he burning every day?
How many hour is he sleeping?


We need datasheet on his routine.

Aspirin, KFC, steak and bacon. The man eats whatever he wants. He just has incredible drive and determination.

He also has a hot supermodel wife and a loving family for support. I doubt Trump would have that insane amount of drive and determination if it weren't for them.

Compare Trump's personal life to the emptiness of Clinton's. She has a husband who can't stand her and a daughter who is her husband's daughter in name only. The only thing that drives Clinton is her insane ambition.

(09-04-2016 06:23 AM)Khan Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 11:38 PM)Rush87 Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 11:31 PM)Latinopan Wrote:  Trump is having a strong weekend right after a perfect week.

Live now

I want the campaign to release Trump diet and sleep schedule, HOLLY SHIT, this a 70 years old man giving speeches for hours standing day after day, press conferences, attacked from every side without stopping.

Even young men would not handle the amount of stress, and pressure, even something as simple as the voice would be showing sings of tiresome.

Yet, Trump is as strong or stronger than the day he launched his campaign.

How many calories is he taking every day?
How many calories is he burning every day?
How many hour is he sleeping?


We need datasheet on his routine.

Aspirin, KFC, steak and bacon. The man eats whatever he wants. He just has incredible drive and determination.

He also has a hot supermodel wife and a loving family for support. I doubt Trump would have that insane amount of drive and determination if it weren't for them.

A shit personal life really sucks the business performance out of you. I remember once being on a skype call with this client and my hot wife walked in the office in short shorts and gave me and ice cream cone, and then left. The client was like "Did that really just happen?" I replied "yes, this is why I work from home" I don't mind working 12 hours a day with a supportive family.

People who are genuinely supportive of you and let you relax. Hillary has to get done with work, change her depends and then scheme against every one of the personal enemies she has in her midst. Bill hates her, Huma won't give up the pussy, her servants hate her and I can guarantee Chelsea is a cunt.

Phoenix,

It's more than a little ironic that you're calling for social shaming in a highly diverse (politically, culturally, racially) society. Social shaming only works in socially homogenous societies. Without such homogeneity, the only thing that might unify people is objective truth, but the objective truth is that drugs reduce one's cognitive ability and weakens one's physical body.

(09-04-2016 11:38 AM)MMX2010 Wrote:  Phoenix,

It's more than a little ironic that you're calling for social shaming in a highly diverse (politically, culturally, racially) society. Social shaming only works in socially homogenous societies (except for fat/slut shaming). Without such homogeneity, the only thing that might unify people is objective truth, but the objective truth is that drugs reduce one's cognitive ability and weakens one's physical body.

Fixed that for you.

Do congressmen/politicians- both locally and federally- get drug tested? If not, then they should. Any drug that is illegal to use, they should be tested for, and even if legal on prescription, that information should be made public and certainly cross referenced. There can be no privacy concern because the employer of the government agent is the public, and the employer has a right to know if their employee is unable to do his/her job [the official obviously has to sign a waiver prior to running for office]. It is only fair. I can't work a simple corporate job without a drug test.

Liberal admits they are running out of ammunition.

Is Trump winning because liberals are too MEAN? 'Crying wolf' over previous candidates has made the billionaire difficult to attack, it is claimed

-Romney was derided as a 'racist' and a 'bigot' during the 2012 election

-Similar attacks have been leveled against almost all of his predecessors

-It means when a candidate like Trump comes along there are no words left to attack him with, it is claimed


Frank Bruni, of the New York Times, argues that because pundits have been too eager to use labels such as 'racist' about moderate Republican candidates, when an outspoken one such as Trump appears, they have no words left to attack him with.

In an August column Krugman wondered why 'not-crazy Republicans' are rallying around Trump 'as if he is a normal candidate.'

Markowicz writes: 'What makes Donald Trump normal to so many is that they’ve heard all the hysteria from people like Krugman before.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...aimed.html

Fisto,

Fat shaming plays upon the universally held (by reasonable people) desire to have a long, healthy life.

Both fat shaming and slut shaming play upon the universally held (by reasonable people) desire to have healthy, happy children.

Drug shaming plays upon neither of those, except maybe the first. Except that many more drug users insist that they're reasonably healthy enough. So social shaming won't work against drug users.

Trump shouldn't even touch something as complex as drug reform while running for president. Only should with a carefully thought out plan that would be effective once in office.

There is a lot of misinformation out there about "non-violent" drug offenders. A pistol, sack and burner phone isn't called the drug dealer starter kit for no reason. The crack cocaine law changed recently as well. People ended up released early from prison due to the unfair length of sentence between crack and powder.

What would work is eliminating the ability to make a huge profit from selling drugs. Once that's gone the allure is gone.

What in the name of Fuck is this question:




I wish Dr Carson was more of a combative motherfucker, he could have lit up (((Wallace))) real bad for that loaded BS question.

Trump had a nice stroll in Dr Carson's old neighborhood, met the new residents and saw his childhood home.

This was probably a really cool moment for Trump: a good, loyal buddy showing him the home he grew up in. A true American success story - some kid from a poor street in Detroit becoming a world renowned paediatric neurosurgeon. Trump and Carson grew up under wildly different circumstances but are bonded by the fact that they both made it to the top in their respective fields, and are trying to give back by entering politics after success in the private sector. But Wallace sees it as Trump using Carson as a prop. Don't these scummy media types have even a basic understanding of humanity? I guess I don't even need to ask that anymore.

I like how there was a bit of an uproar that a "super biased right winger" FOX personality will be a debate moderator, but these people don't even realize that Wallace is a true piece of shit liberal cocksucker who would fit in finely at any other degenerate leftist media company.

(09-04-2016 01:15 PM)Latinopan Wrote:  Liberal admits they are running out of ammunition.

Is Trump winning because liberals are too MEAN? 'Crying wolf' over previous candidates has made the billionaire difficult to attack, it is claimed

-Romney was derided as a 'racist' and a 'bigot' during the 2012 election

-Similar attacks have been leveled against almost all of his predecessors

-It means when a candidate like Trump comes along there are no words left to attack him with, it is claimed


Frank Bruni, of the New York Times, argues that because pundits have been too eager to use labels such as 'racist' about moderate Republican candidates, when an outspoken one such as Trump appears, they have no words left to attack him with.

In an August column Krugman wondered why 'not-crazy Republicans' are rallying around Trump 'as if he is a normal candidate.'

Markowicz writes: 'What makes Donald Trump normal to so many is that they’ve heard all the hysteria from people like Krugman before.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...aimed.html

(09-04-2016 01:48 PM)realologist Wrote:  Trump shouldn't even touch something as complex as drug reform while running for president. Only should with a carefully thought out plan that would be effective once in office.

There is a lot of misinformation out there about "non-violent" drug offenders. A pistol, sack and burner phone isn't called the drug dealer starter kit for no reason. The crack cocaine law changed recently as well. People ended up released early from prison due to the unfair length of sentence between crack and powder.

What would work is eliminating the ability to make a huge profit from selling drugs. Once that's gone the allure is gone.

What exactly do you think would happen then?

Gangbangers turning in their weapons, going in for a college education?

What would happen is kidnappings, robberies, petty theft, burglaries, prostitution. Look at South America where drugs are plenty, that's the kind of crime they do.

Do they sell hard drugs legally in stores in South America?

You are never going to be rid of crime. You will lower crime if you improve the economy, and as unemployment goes down.

Everything is about utility, and risk to reward ratios.

(09-04-2016 02:23 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

(09-04-2016 01:48 PM)realologist Wrote:  Trump shouldn't even touch something as complex as drug reform while running for president. Only should with a carefully thought out plan that would be effective once in office.

There is a lot of misinformation out there about "non-violent" drug offenders. A pistol, sack and burner phone isn't called the drug dealer starter kit for no reason. The crack cocaine law changed recently as well. People ended up released early from prison due to the unfair length of sentence between crack and powder.

What would work is eliminating the ability to make a huge profit from selling drugs. Once that's gone the allure is gone.

What exactly do you think would happen then?

Gangbangers turning in their weapons, going in for a college education?

What would happen is kidnappings, robberies, petty theft, burglaries, prostitution. Look at South America where drugs are plenty, that's the kind of crime they do.

Crime also continued in Chicago after prohibition ended, yet I doubt anyone on this forum think it's a good idea to ban alcohol again.

No one is arguing that all crime and violence will be eliminated with the legalization of drugs, as world peace is ushered in and we all live in harmony on a never-ending heroin high.

What people are referring to when they talk about a reduction in crime are drug mules, college students who sell a little weed to make some extra spending money, the black kid who gets caught with an ounce of marijuana for personal use and ends up with a felony conviction that will prevent him from finding gainful employment for the rest of his life, etc.

Most drug users and dealers aren't violent MS-13 gang members who are going to start kidnapping or robbing people because they lost the $100 to $500 a week they were making selling coke on the side.

If that were the case, countries like Portugal, the Czech Republic, the Netherlands, etc. would be having extreme problems with crime -- but they aren't.

In fact, growing up, I knew a lot of people who sold things like weed simply so that they didn't have to spend so much time or money buying it in small quantities for personal use.