Post: #26

Mistresses in this day and age run the risk of just being a side piece. Only high powered career women will abort their lovers kid on a whim because she knows he will nuke her from orbit.

This guy didn't play dread game enough or she was hankering for a child and he fucked her enough times for it to be odds-on.

Post: #27

(06-17-2015 05:50 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(06-16-2015 11:51 PM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  I also don't see how you equate a woman enveigling a man to support a child that that he didn't agree to have, and being forced into indentured servitude by men with guns because some bitch's biological clock is ticking and she has no regard for the man's free will, as the just solution to prevent "ditching the child".

He's got no free will? He didn't choose to stick his dick in her? He obviously has some culpability here.

She made all the same decisions he did up until the conception of the child, but after it's conceived she's the only one who is allowed an exit? Bear in mind, the mother doesn't just have the option to abort - she can give the child away after it's born and have no responsibility to it thereafter. What choices does the man have? And what of the negative incentives this situation creates for women, where creating children, cutting the father out of the picture and then attaching themselves to another man provides a net financial gain over a traditional family?

Despite the dogma that's wont to fly around this corner of the internet, women are not stupid. They respond to incentives as much as men do, and if the state didn't cover them for all foreseeable mistakes, they would quickly learn to make more rational life choices. Unfortunately, we all know that there's as much chance of this happening as a return to the societal norms of our great grandparents, or a federal law against abortion (good luck on convincing a secular society that they're not allowed to do something because it's against your religious beliefs).

Men's situation is not going to get any better until (if ever) the wealth of nations is entirely spent, and their utility can no longer be willingly extracted by proxy. Given this, a little sympathy is surely due to the reprehensible situation which causes some men to resort to convoluted strategies like this?

Post: #28

I think the difference between myself and many guys here is the following:

- Woman has choice to abort but man does not

You guys say, "Men should have choice to abort too!"

While I say, "No one should be allowed to abort."

Post: #29

(06-17-2015 07:00 AM)Samseau Wrote:  I think the difference between myself and many guys here is the following:

- Woman has choice to abort but man does not

You guys say, "Men should have choice to abort too!"

While I say, "No one should be allowed to abort."

That's not true, women also have a secondary choice as I said above - to give the child away with no responsibility to it thereafter. Men are hamstrung from the moment of its conception. "Equality" in this regard would be a right to paternal surrender, or repealing "Safe-Haven" laws. Both are astronomically unlikely achievements.

With regards to abortion, whether your religious beliefs inform you that it's an immoral act or not, dogmatically asserting it's immoral is not going to persuade a secular society. Even if you could come up with the most persuasive irreligious argument for why abortion is evil, that wouldn't suffice either, because it's simply too convenient for women to give it up and women's convenience is the sole focus of modern legislation.

The current tug of war with abortion isn't whether it should be allowed or not, but how late the deadline should be - and as with most progressive trends, in a few years the debate will probably have shifted to "should women be able to kill their children once they reach the age of 2, or should 1 remain the deadline? New research suggests that self-awareness is not fully developed in children until they are three years old, and many mothers are struggling to stay above the breadline, with deadbeat dads becoming an increasing problem."

You're not going to overturn Roe v. Wade. MRAs aren't going to amend alimony and child support laws. Traditionalists aren't going to get rid of no fault divorce laws. These are all unrealistic goals - so, the question remains, what the fuck are men supposed to do?

Get married and start an old fashioned family? Good fucking luck with that one.

Don't have sex at all?

Emigrate? Yes, this is a viable option at an individual level, but it can hardly be a recommendation made to all men.

What's left, other than to pursue sex when you can get it, and look out for your own interests as a man? The man in the OP's post might not be the most sympathetic character, but when a society incentivises such egregious behaviour in women whilst giving men no options with which to respond, is it any wonder some men resort to tricks like this?

Post: #30

Vincent Vinturi for president.

Samsaeu take your puritarian blue pill horseshit back to your ivory tower.

I had to take a paternity test yesterday at the point of a gun.

If some girl claims you knocked her up, you will get served, doesn't matter if you actually did or not. If you happened to be out of the country then a default judgement can be rendered against you.

A govt agency puts you in a room, takes your fingerprints and photo before taking your DNA.

Do they use clinics worth a shit? Who fucking knows!?

But based on their findings your life is theirs regardless.

This "you stuck your dick in her suffer the consequences " bs is infuriating.

I didn't want children, I made that crystal fucking clear, but now all I hear about is "take responsibility ".

When I asked "ok well do I get to see my children now"?

"Thats not our department ".

What has almost put me over the edge with all this is I have been voluntarily paying money every month and I'm told "we have to see if she will give you credit for that otherwise you owe a debt for those months".

Unfucking real.

Post: #31

Quote:What has almost put me over the edge with all this is I have been voluntarily paying money every month and I'm told "we have to see if she will give you credit for that otherwise you owe a debt for those months".

Are you saying the whole legal system of child benefit is based on the good word the mother has for your cheques? Not real actual evidence you can procure yourself?

That is quite strange and is open to abuse.

Post: #32

The fact that this guy was willing to use a mirror of himself in court let me know he already told his mistresses he absolutely don't want a kid. But alas, that chick got a piece of him and his earnings for now and evermore. Damn to his girlfriend, people' s tax, the kid's stake, her self-respect, and shame brought on her. She won the ultimate prize using her damns and birth controls as chips and betting it all.

Post: #33

No, but if she were to deny I had paid her, there would be a court order that I owed a debt first, and then the burden of proof would be on me.

And just so you know the type of person I'm dealing with over there, its a female who can't fucking spell and use proper gammer and seems to miss the fucking point if a question.

For example, I have been paying via paypal voluntarily up until this point, to her this just seems outlandish and unreal. The idea that I could be paying this way because it's convenient when you are overseas is just beyond her.

When I showed her the statements to the mother's email address that wasn't proof at all.

She told me I was "lucky she gave you credit".

In other words, I would have to prove that is actually the mother's email address and that she was the one accessing the funds etc.

When all of this was accessed at the very end of everything that I sent her regarding my finances, buy a flight back to make the appointment with this lady to make a formal decision on how much I have to pay every month, THEN she asks me if I want genetic testing which of course I say yes to.

Then she informs me that everything is cancled until the results come back and that I STILL have to pay only now I have to pay her office.

In other words, I didn't have to come back right away or buy a more expensive plane ticket.

Fuck anyone that says the man should have to pay whatever arbitrary number they come up with simply because he got the girl pregnant.

In my case the girl was scooping up cum off her belly or spitting it out of her mouth into her hand and shoving it inside her when she went to the bathroom.

I'm stuck with this shit for 18 years.

Whats worse is people running their fucking mouths about my choice to travel for months at a time instead of "being there".

Post: #34

Fisto, obviously the laws are broken. I am very sorry to hear of your predicament. And this woman getting preggo on you is scary as fuck. Makes me never want to give my full name to any foreign chick.

But to believe that just because the governments are broken and fucked up somehow makes it acceptable to kill your kids in self-defense is not right either. An evil is never the answer to another evil, even if you must suffer for it.

One thing I would have counseled you on, however: As soon as you got that girl preggo, you should have gone to some lawyers within that country and found out what the laws were, what you need to do in order to be in compliance, and how to minimize risks. I cannot believe no one on this forum told you paying via paypal was a terrible idea?

Ocelot:

Quote:That's not true, women also have a secondary choice as I said above - to give the child away with no responsibility to it thereafter. Men are hamstrung from the moment of its conception. "Equality" in this regard would be a right to paternal surrender, or repealing "Safe-Haven" laws. Both are astronomically unlikely achievements.

If the woman gives it away then how is the man going to suffer from it? At least with adoption there is a chance the child survives, as opposed to abortion. Aristotle was an orphan by the way.

Quote:With regards to abortion, whether your religious beliefs inform you that it's an immoral act or not, dogmatically asserting it's immoral is not going to persuade a secular society. Even if you could come up with the most persuasive irreligious argument for why abortion is evil, that wouldn't suffice either, because it's simply too convenient for women to give it up and women's convenience is the sole focus of modern legislation.

It doesn't matter what arguments I use for today's society because they are fundamentally evil and selfish. If killing their children gives them more pleasure then they will do it, all rationality be damned. I can give you arguments both secular and theological against abortion, it's not very hard to do.

Quote:The current tug of war with abortion isn't whether it should be allowed or not, but how late the deadline should be - and as with most progressive trends, in a few years the debate will probably have shifted to "should women be able to kill their children once they reach the age of 2, or should 1 remain the deadline? New research suggests that self-awareness is not fully developed in children until they are three years old, and many mothers are struggling to stay above the breadline, with deadbeat dads becoming an increasing problem."

Like I said, rationality has nothing to do with today's society, for it is fundamentally selfish and evil.

Quote:You're not going to overturn Roe v. Wade. MRAs aren't going to amend alimony and child support laws. Traditionalists aren't going to get rid of no fault divorce laws. These are all unrealistic goals - so, the question remains, what the fuck are men supposed to do?

I'm working on it. I think I have some solutions in mind and I'll be making them more public once I've contacted a lawyer and consulted some more literature and real world examples.

Quote:The man in the OP's post might not be the most sympathetic character, but when a society incentivises such egregious behaviour in women whilst giving men no options with which to respond, is it any wonder some men resort to tricks like this?

It's not a wonder, but the fraud committed by the guy in the OP was so egregious that it's going to haunt ALL men for a long time. I guarantee you feminist lawmakers will use this example to try and either ban or limit paternity testing now.

Post: #35

This is the good ole USA.

Where men are shit on.

Post: #36

(06-17-2015 04:50 PM)Fisto Wrote:  This is the good ole USA.

Where men are shit on.

Well fuck man, I could have told you that no legal rep = you're fucked here. You had to go see a family lawyer in your state ASAP and ask how to setup a system where the woman gets primary custody and you pay child support (since it seems like you want nothing to do with her).

In your current predicament, this woman seems nice enough not to nail you to the cross so the next best step is to make sure your reported income (to the IRS) is as low as possible. Show them you're broke (even if you're not) so the payments are low. Then find ways to make income from here on out that cannot be traced to your name (make it abroad, under the table, put things in your brother's name, etc.).

Students do similar things to avoid their debt.

Post: #37

One spell of irrationality on the mistress's part and it blows up in his face. Child support payments? How will he feel about four child support payments, plus alimony after losing half his net worth if his wife decides to divorce him? Things can cascade out of control fast.

You don't put any aspect of your professional or financial life in a woman's control.The retard probably has facebook and instagram in his own name that the mistress saw and probably fucked her in his own house.

Post: #38

(06-17-2015 04:50 PM)Fisto Wrote:  This is the good ole USA.

Where men are shit on.

The worst part of it all is that our own biology is being used against us.
It's our innate desire to find the highest value female we're able and to procreate with her.

But the system is setup so that a trade must be made: You want kids? Fine, but say goodbye to your ability to improve yourself, your station, your ability to be a better provider. From here on out you're beholden to the creature that had an equal part in creating this new life.

The system is so blatantly in favor of the female because the psychology of the system is FEMALE. Who is the one in the relationship that fears being left behind by the other when they better themselves... the female. So in a pro-female system it figures that it would be rigged to bring the male down so that if the female becomes pregnant he won't be able to better himself.

Males stand to lose in love, in marriage, in parenthood, lose lose lose. Nothing is to our benefit, NOTHING. That is why the social fabric is decaying, that is why the native population will die out, and that is why any sane man with the ability to leave will do so.

Those who stay will do so to make money, but they'll have to remain single to do it. All the while having to hide their sexuality and play the game with HR departments. But I say make money to what end? What good is money without family? For endless notches? Fuck that and fuck this place, I'm not gonna die here.

The Anglosphere is the Titanic. We've hit an iceberg and we're taking on water, fast. We may not sink today or next week but it's coming. When the ship finally capsizes the result is going to be spectacular. Right now there's still plenty of life boats open to get off safely. Yea it's gonna suck to be stuck out on the freezing cold ocean for a bit while you get back on your feet elsewhere, but it's either that or go down with the ship.

Post: #39

I did see a legal rep, and there's nothing you can do except try to hide your money, like you suggested which is also the same sort of way you were lambasting this guy in the article.

In fact, as I was being led down the hallway I was thinking, "I wonder if I could find someone to do this for me with a fake ID".

Post: #40

(06-16-2015 02:31 PM)Samseau Wrote:  Actually, I do have some sympathy for this dude: the child support payments are too damn high, and women can spend the money on things besides their children. In this case it makes sense not to want to have to pay child support.

However, the way he went about it, by defrauding the system, HURTS men. Think about it: you've got states in America that will not even honor paternity tests, yet this guy lives in a country that will and he tries to abuse it to game the system? He's just giving ammo to feminists who will lobby to ban paternity testing because of douchebags like this guy.

You're right.

But I'll still cheer for the guy who does anything in his power to fight a system where a man is required to hand over money to a woman who is not required to spend it on his child.

Until that changes, I'll support any effort to undermine an evil system, no matter how happy the feminists are to use it as ammunition.

Post: #41

(06-16-2015 07:05 AM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  Maybe the guy's a no goodnik, but a child is a huge responsibility and it's absolutely unjust to go forward with it unless both parties are in agreement.

Amen bro. Equality will happen when a woman is required to serve papers notifying a man of a pregnancy and he is required to sign them stating he wants her to have the kid or an abortion - "abortion" absolves him of all financial responsibility and but also any requirement for the mother to ever let him see the kid - "kid" means he's financially liable for 18 years but is entitled to 50/50 custody.

(06-16-2015 01:39 PM)Samseau Wrote:  Abortions are wrong, ditching children is wrong, this guy is loaded: he is a piece of shit, I have no sympathy for him. Time to pay up, bitch.

If flushing an embryo with less sense of self-awareness than the average mosquito is wrong, what do we call forcing a man to pay child support for 18 years because a swimmer escaped before he pulled out, or that time was one of the 2% when condoms used as directed fail to work, or the bitch wiped it off her belly into her pussy?

Post: #42

(06-17-2015 10:42 PM)Fisto Wrote:  I did see a legal rep, and there's nothing you can do except try to hide your money, like you suggested which is also the same sort of way you were lambasting this guy in the article.

In fact, as I was being led down the hallway I was thinking, "I wonder if I could find someone to do this for me with a fake ID".

One option, which I'm sure you've already seriously considered, is to abscond to a country where the US government can't enforce child support laws.

Or, taken to the extreme, you could even start over with a new identity.

Let's be real, the courts don't give a fuck about how much you need to live, how much your ex *really* requires, and how much is enough to raise children comfortably (you don't really need that much until the schooling begins, except maybe for medical bills, but the courts err on the side of taking way too much).

They just look at your paychecks and decide "Oh, 2/3 of what you make sounds about right...now give it up motherfucka (or else)" and boom, you're a fucking pauper for 2 decades to come.

The more you make, the more they take.

So what's the point?

And of course, you still have to pay taxes to fund this very tyranny in the first place.

This is robbery plain and simple and any man with so much as one iota of love for freedom in his heart would rebel against this with all his being.

I don't know the fine points of your situation, but in your shoes I'd probably try and find a way to stay abroad, ramp up business efforts and somehow try to take care of my kids directly, or not at all, which is completely justified in my view as this is a case of calculated, malicious entrapment.

Everybody wants to point their fucking fingers and tell you about your duty and obligation and "man up".

But you've already given a big chunk of your life to the US serving in the Army, and for what, so you can be made a slave at the whim of some cunt and at the behest of a holier than thou judge? Fuck that.

Check out the comments on this post...some of these guys' stories tug at your heartstrings:

https://lawdiva.wordpress.com/2012/12/17...y-nothing/

Post: #43

Actually Vincent, doing business abroad is exactly my plan. Luckily though there is a cap in Nevada at something like 1000 dollars per kid. :/

At any rate yeah, I wish I had never met them because I love them now.

I'll have to figure out how I can live the life I want and still be part of their lives.

Post: #44

(06-18-2015 02:00 AM)Fisto Wrote:  Actually Vincent, doing business abroad is exactly my plan. Luckily though there is a cap in Nevada at something like 1000 dollars per kid. :/

At any rate yeah, I wish I had never met them because I love them now.

I'll have to figure out how I can live the life I want and still be part of their lives.

That or you have to long con the mother, marry her, get the order cancelled and then proceed with divorce and custody of the kids 2-5 years down the road. While most men (like myself) are completely freaked out by having to run a household by myself I wish I knew back in the day that even just $500 in child support would go very far into hiring a nanny or au pair as a child raising assistant.

Post: #45

(06-16-2015 05:20 AM)Candlejack Wrote:  The Judge said "this case shows you were prepared to disown a child of your own for financial gain. Morally you can not sink lower than that."

For me, that sums it up. Dude should man up and take responsibility. Alpha is being responsible.

That's the gobbledygook these scumbags are trying to forcefeed you. This ONLY removes her ability to hammer and control him with the system. He can be as much a father as he wants...more of a father than the legal system allows when he has the "power of the purse". Having your money used to be what enforced Visitation.


The whole Family Court system is so dirty, crooked and corrupt that you cant fault almost any hustle to beat it. Again, keep in mind that this is a completely separate issue from actually taking care of your kid (which any decent guy does without the court anyway). That was an intelllectual Bait and Switch by angry activists that have convinced you that bending over for this dirty thing is your as sacred a duty as taking care of your kids in real life and being the leader of your family.

Post: #46

What Fisto posted should shock every guy here into going 100% incognito in the USA...the whole damn cloak and dagger enchilada! Fake name. Fake IDs. Fake Facebook/Twitter/Youtube pages. Fake job. Fake credentials. Fake hobbies. All of this to the point where you begin to feel like a CIA agent. But then that's really what it comes down to, does it not? Protecting your intel. Protecting your assets. Protecting your future livelihood. Just like any CIA agent would (rightly) do.

Not knowing the consequences of refusing a court ordered paternity test, I did some research and found the consequences are actually WORSE than if you are a child porn suspect who refuses to fork over the encryption password. In the UK it's a two year minimum jail sentence but you're not on the offender registry. In the USA, depends on the state but you cannot be a witness against yourself. Contrast a felony like that with an 18 year sentence in the USA since merely refusing the test on privacy grounds automatically gives you a guilty verdict. Insanity.

Actually now that I think about it, they'll find you guilty no matter what your reason for refusing the test is. How's that for living in the land of the free?

Being completely anonymous to lizards is hard fucking work in the U.S. HARD WORK. It goes way beyond simply using Tor online. You need offline security and I'm shocked that there aren't datasheets on how to do this effectively. It's not rocket science.

But you only have to slip up once for her to catch on that you're not who you say you are. Something slurred in a bar. A letter she sees with your real name on it. That said, I believe social media is the primary risk. The other is having mutual friends who might know where you went to college or where you work or even which affiliate companies you work for online and by extension, what your last name really is.

The other thing that surprised me is that no one here questions why the guy didn't get fixed? Seriously? The guy has two kids already. He decides to go stick his dick in crazy and didn't get snipped before pile-driving the mistress? That is a whole other level of stupid. If you don't want to be in his shoes someday, either get snipped or prepare to live two lives.

Post: #47

(06-27-2015 02:10 PM)Soothesayer Wrote:  Being completely anonymous to lizards is hard fucking work in the U.S. HARD WORK. It goes way beyond simply using Tor online. You need offline security and I'm shocked that there aren't datasheets on how to do this effectively. It's not rocket science.

Your whole post is about being "shocked" and "surprised" at the ignorance of RVF members.

If you're such an expert, why aren't you dropping detailed data sheets to help your fellow men?

Otherwise you just look condescending.

Post: #48

(06-16-2015 05:20 AM)Candlejack Wrote:  For me, that sums it up. Dude should man up and take responsibility. Alpha is being responsible.

Post: #49

I always wonder how men still get women pregnant when 66% of a woman's orifices cannot yield a pregnancy and the other orifice is only fertile for 5 days a month. Need to learn better control and or time management and frame. I know what the Cos would do: He would fix her a drink that will "help with her morning sickness" it would be a cup of tea with a roofie and a Plan B pill ground up in it. Then he would hit it one last time for old times sake. Women should only get pregnant on purpose. "Accidental" pregnancies are always questionable in my opinion, after all we do know how this stuff works.