Post: #1

Here's a hard-hitting essay about a classic flick. It reads like it's from Return of Kings, but instead, the NY Post published it.

http://nypost.com/2015/06/10/sorry-ladie...oodfellas/

Quote:The first time I saw “GoodFellas,” on a rented Blockbuster videotape in 1991, I was in a daze as the final credits rolled. If I had been a cartoon character, I would have had stars dancing around my head like Wile E. Coyote. I turned to my girlfriend and said, “What’d you think?”

“Boy movie,” she declared — and I knew our relationship was doomed.

Just kidding. (We split up because I was a jerk.) But women don’t get “GoodFellas.” It’s not really a crime drama, like “The Godfather.” It’s more of a male fantasy picture — “Entourage” with guns instead of swimming pools, the Rat Pack minus tuxedos.

“GoodFellas,” which starting next week will have a 25th anniversary showing at the Film Forum on Houston Street, and whose 25th anniversary Blu-ray DVD just hit the streets, takes place in a world guys dream about. Way down deep in the reptile brain, Henry Hill (Ray Liotta), Jimmy the Gent (Robert De Niro) and Tommy (Joe Pesci) are exactly what guys want to be: lazy but powerful, deadly but funny, tough, unsentimental and devoted above all to their brothers — a small group of guys who will always have your back. Women sense that they are irrelevant to this fantasy, and it bothers them.

The wiseguys never have to work (the three friends never exert themselves except occasionally to do something fun, like steal a tractor-trailer truck), which frees them up to spend the days and nights doing what guys love above all else: sitting around with the gang, busting each other’s balls.

Ball-busting means cheerfully insulting one another, preferably in the presence of lots of drinks and cigars and card games. (The “GoodFellas” guys are always at the card table, just as the Rat Pack were, while the “Entourage” guys love video games.) Women (except silent floozies) cannot be present for ball-busting because women are the sensitivity police: They get offended, protest that someone’s not being fair, refuse to laugh at vicious put-downs. In the male fantasy, all of this is unforgivable — too serious, too boring. Deal another hand, pour another drink.

To a woman, the “GoodFellas” are lowlifes. To guys, they’re hilarious, they’re heroes. They rule the roost. From a young age, Henry finds his family’s parking space is always kept free, even though they don’t have a car. He has more money than his dad. As he puts it, “To us, those goody-goody people who worked s - - -ty jobs for bum paychecks, who took the subway to work every day and worried about their bills, were dead. They were suckers. They had no balls. If we wanted something, we just took it.” The fact that guns are involved — that, at any moment, anyone could get shot for any reason — just makes the stakes higher, the fantasy more exciting.

When the “Sex and the City” girls sit around at brunch, they’re a tightly knit clique — but their rule is to always be sympathetic and supportive as each describes her problems, usually revolving around the men in her life.

As “GoodFellas” shows us, guys hanging out together don’t really like to talk about the women in their lives because that’s too real. What we’d much rather do than discuss problems and “be supportive” is to keep the laughs coming — to endlessly bust each other’s balls.

At its core, “GoodFellas” is a story of ball-busting etiquette, which we first learn about in the improvised early scene based on a real experience of Pesci. Tommy turns his attention to a laughing Henry after telling a funny story and threateningly says, “Am I a comedian? Do I amuse you?” Tommy appears to be dangerously angry. Henry saves the day by returning the ball-busting: “Get the f - - k outta here.”

The rule is, be a man, be tough, and always keep the party going.

Billy Batts (the unfortunate fellow in the trunk, and surprisingly not dead, when the movie begins) breaks ball-busting etiquette in two ways. One, he’s not really one of the guys (he belongs to another crime family), and two, in the guise of breaking Tommy’s balls, he brings up something serious, something that truly bothers Tommy: that he once worked as a shoeshine boy. Billy must die. Later, Morrie, the wig merchant, must also die for improper ball-busting.

Even Karen’s (Lorraine Bracco) relationship with, and eventual marriage to, Henry is based on ball-busting. He’s bored with her on their double dates with Tommy and his girl, but after he stands her up, she comes down to the taxi stand where he’s hanging out with other wiseguys and yells at him. The guys love this and roar with laughter. Karen doesn’t realize it, but she has successfully broken Henry’s balls — hence she’s funny, lively and interesting. She promises to keep the party going.

What would “GoodFellas” be like if it were told by a woman?

Meet an at-risk youth called Henry Hill. Victimized by horrific physical abuse from an early age, and traumatized by the responsibilities of caring for a handicapped brother, he fell prey to criminal elements in his rough East New York neighborhood in a time when social-services agencies were sadly lacking. At an impressionable age, he became desensitized to violence when a gunshot victim bled to death in front of a restaurant where he was working. His turn to the mafia was a cry for help — a need to find a family structure to replace the one he had never really known.

And who would want to watch that movie?

Post: #2

Look at all the butthurt comments beneath the article.

Post: #3

Scorsese should've gotten his awards for this movie, not The Departed.

I love Goodfellas and watch it anytime I see it on TV.

Post: #4

A very masculine movie and as if that weren´t enough, it glorifies the mob Can you imagine something like Goodfellas being made today? It would probably have some gay subtext or some shit like that.

Post: #5

Post: #6

(06-11-2015 02:31 PM)freeuser Wrote:  A very masculine movie and as if that weren´t enough, it glorifies the mob Can you imagine something like Goodfellas being made today? It would probably have some gay subtext or some shit like that.

I doubt it since it’s based on a true story. Wolf of Wall Street was made very recently, and it’s a very masculine film too. It was also made by the genius Martin Scorcese.

Goodfellas is one of my favourite films of all time.

Post: #7

Post: #8

(06-11-2015 02:35 PM)mrbiggs Wrote:  

Post: #9

There's a fundamental difference in understanding between the genders when it comes to society.

Women are naturally comformist. Always have been, always will be with a few very very rare exceptions in history as circumstances dictate.

Sex and the City is popular because it's a female power fantasy where women with money and status can get any man they want and all the material goods they desire.

Lena Christmashams' show is also a power fantasy. It's an ugly awkward fat Jewish girl who can fuck men several notches higher than her in her lavish NY digs and have them inexplicably all fall for her in some cheesedick fashion. It's the typical upper class New York fantasy life for hipster jewess porkers.

Goodfellas is about shirking the system and the built in social restraints. It's male camaraderie, the rise and fall of ambition, and the quirks of putting yourself out there. It's counter culture in many ways and that's why women don't understand it. It's not conformist.

They don't understand that underlying message of choosing another path because everything is fucked up anyways and the standard life is for suckers.


So if you don't get what i'm saying. Girls, Sex and the City, and all other diarrhea shows focused on consumerist women are all about hyper reality. Ultra conformist fantasies. It's all about buying shit, being on a completely unrealistic higher social/economic class, and fucking lots of men without consequences with white liberal fantasy kinks thrown in but still based on reality..ie. hyper reality.

Post: #10

Its an interesting dichotomy between the fantasy of the sexes. What did women watch in 1990 when Goodfellas came out? 90's sitcoms were generally shows that glorified home and family life. Sitcoms got more dysfunctional throughout the late 90's/early 2000's. Now we have shows like Sex and the City, Girls, How I Met Your Mother, and a slew of other sitcoms that don't glorify family life at all. They are all about living in the city, girls being hot, cool, empowered, and with tons of options and means. While men are silly chumps.

I mean its all relative. This is the typical American female's fantasy so it's what is on TV (or vice versa, however you want to look at it).

Post: #11

Maybe I didn't understand Goodfellas either because I never saw those guys as a "fantasy" or "heroes". They're all loose cannons who ruined their lives for ego and drugs.

It's still a good movie, don't get me wrong, but give me The Godfather, Casino, or even Scarface any day. Even when Tony Montana fell from grace, he did it on his own terms, not completely broke and hiding in the Witness Protection Program.

Post: #12

I need to watch this movie again.

Though it's the inferior of the 3, it's up there with The Godfather and Casino as the best mob movies of all time.

Post: #13

A documentary on the real Goodfellas on which the movie is based. Reality is not what you see in the movie. Real life's Paulie was not a fatherly figure as much as Sorvino in the flick : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sjfe5hrsPDs

Post: #14

Wow, this chick really didn't get the movie.

Post: #15

Interestingly, my mother loves Goodfellas. But then she is 68, so that may have something to do with it.

Post: #16

(06-11-2015 02:31 PM)freeuser Wrote:  Can you imagine something like Goodfellas being made today? It would probably have some gay subtext or some shit like that.

Well, quite a few actors from Goodfellas went on to star on the Sopranos, which is probably the MJ of mob movies/shows.

Post: #17

Post: #18

Goodfellas is one of my favorite movies.

Here's an interesting documentary on the story of the real life Henry Hill.

Post: #19

(06-11-2015 01:54 PM)Bacchus Wrote:  Way down deep in the reptile brain, Henry Hill (Ray Liotta), Jimmy the Gent (Robert De Niro) and Tommy (Joe Pesci) are exactly what guys want to be: lazy but powerful, deadly but funny, tough, unsentimental and devoted above all to their brothers — a small group of guys who will always have your back.

If he saw that in Goodfellas, I'm afraid Kyle's the one who didn't understand the movie.

I loved it, but these were men who were liable to betray, abandon, and even turn on each other in an instant when shit got tough. With men like these, loyalty often only goes as deep as it serves their own purposes, and that's unfortunately often the case with men who follow the pack in the real world as well.

Yes, the movie sells the fantasy in the beginning, and yes, some of that still tingles in the lizard brain when it's over and done with, but that wasn't the point of the whole thing. That was just the setup for the moral of the story.

Post: #20

Or maybe women just don't 'get' Goodfellas because it contains themes of brotherhood, loyalty, doing whatever is necessary to succeed and - of course - placing 'the family' above any and all women in the story?

No crass consumerism, no carousel-riding, no 'support me in my stupidity!' best frienemies, no self-serving narratives (Henry turning, granted...but self-serving to ensure you get to live another day is different from female self-serving). A movie like Goodfellas could never be made today, and that's just sad.

Love Goodfellas - in my opinion the best mafia movie ever (the only movies in the last 30 years I think are better are The Shawshank Redemption, The Silence of the Lambs and Gladiator). Everything is on point, the acting, the cinematography, the dialogue, the casting, the soundtrack, and yes - tons of game-awareness, including...

- Henry standing up Karen after avoiding her on the first date. He had more pressing business to handle. How many guys today would pass up a date with a so-so girl for a shot at making, say, two grand in a night?

- Karen's initial apprehension about Henry's work, which later she realizes turns her on. Dark-triad game recognized.

- Paulie's general distrust of technology. Every day men lose their livelihoods at the hands of the SJW horde for comments made on Facebook, Twitter etc,.

- Jimmy 'The Gent' is basically Game: The Person.



- Never trust broads to listen to what you say (as we see how Henry got busted).


10/10, will watch any chance I can.

Post: #21

The article is really good, and there is nothing wrong with suggesting that some movies are 'guy movies'.

But never mind, just like the scientist, the author needs to go away, because in today's culture:

Women's feelings > Everything else.

Post: #22

Besides "Goodfellas," another great mob-related guy film is "A Bronx Tale" from 1993.

It's directed by Robert DeNiro and stars Chazz Palminteri. It tells the story of a kid coming of age during the '60s who takes mob boss Palminteri as a surrogate dad and gets taught lots of Red Pill lessons about keeping his cool and how to handle women:

"Let me tell you something' right now. You're only allowed three great women in your lifetime. They come along like the great fighters, every ten years. Rocky Marciano, Sugar Ray Robinson, Joe Louis. Sometimes you get 'em all at once. Me? I had my three when I was 16. That happens. What are you gonna do?"

This movie might have been better than "Goodfellas," but it contains a final half hour or so that's drawn-out and drags it down a bit. But the first 3/4 is great.

Post: #23

(06-12-2015 03:45 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  Besides "Goodfellas," another great mob-related guy film is "A Bronx Tale" from 1993.

It's directed by Robert DeNiro and stars Chazz Palminteri. It tells the story of a kid coming of age during the '60s who takes mob boss Palminteri as a surrogate dad and gets taught lots of Red Pill lessons about keeping his cool and how to handle women:

"Let me tell you something' right now. You're only allowed three great women in your lifetime. They come along like the great fighters, every ten years. Rocky Marciano, Sugar Ray Robinson, Joe Louis. Sometimes you get 'em all at once. Me? I had my three when I was 16. That happens. What are you gonna do?"

This movie might have been better than "Goodfellas," but it contains a final half hour or so that's drawn-out and drags it down a bit. But the first 3/4 is great.

Sonny gives the kid a good test for determining if a girl is worth keeping around.

Watch this.

Post: #24

I like goodfellas like all the other mafia movies too, I even like those gangster movies. But still its not an desirable lifestyle for me. True it seems like those guys hold the cards but at the end they all go down. Mostly because they get to greedy and ego driven. Don't have their shit together in the big picture.
Drive me nuts to see a bunch of teenagers that play gangster and are a waste for society with their behaviour. I've seen to many of those little idiot gangster kids.

Those Mafia mobsters and gangster rule with fear, violence and money. This give them their power. But they stab each others back most of the time when shit gets real.

Post: #25

(06-11-2015 02:38 PM)WalterBlack Wrote:  

(06-11-2015 02:31 PM)freeuser Wrote:  A very masculine movie and as if that weren´t enough, it glorifies the mob Can you imagine something like Goodfellas being made today? It would probably have some gay subtext or some shit like that.

I doubt it since it’s based on a true story. Wolf of Wall Street was made very recently, and it’s a very masculine film too. It was also made by the genius Martin Scorcese.

Goodfellas is one of my favourite films of all time.

Foxcatcher, which is a recent film, is also based on a true story and they crammed some obvious homo subtext in it. Apparently Mark Schultz was not very happy with this. Even if he later (was forced?) to retract. So it does happen. Hollywood usually finds a way of pushing their agenda, even with real stories. But you´re right about Wolf of Wall Street, I was amazed that Marty got that film green lighted with all the debauchery that´s on display.