Post: #1

I just re-saw the movie American Beauty where Kevin Spacey's character regains his masculinity and self-esteem by lusting after a teenage girl and seeing how his neighbor's son just casually quits his job. The movie is also about how the characters who appear happy, confident and successive are actually quite ugly and miserable. In contrast, the outcast who films dead birds and plastic bags is actually the most secure and confident with himself, and he decides to move out of his psychotic father's home at the end

I had similarly felt sedated with my life in the US, feeling trapped in the rat race and conforming to America's standards for success. I'm just weeks away from finishing my Master's degree in STEM but I'm now considering teaching English abroad, possibly in Taiwan, Japan or Thailand. I know English teachers are considered as losers by the locals, but the point of American Beauty is that its better to be a "loser" but free, rather than live the American dream but be dead in the inside

I've seen some posts by guys here recommending not to teach English abroad. But how is working in the US any better? What do you guys think?

Post: #2

It can be a good move if you maximize your time.

Teaching allows you relatively short hours. You can take the extra time you have and invest it into learning, reading and self development.. Or simply start a business if you have something in mind.

If your location of work doesn't necessarily matter I'd do Japan/China/UAE and try and find the job making the most amount of money. More time + still decent enough money to do some side hustling and investing

Congrats on the degree by the way!

Post: #3

Considered losers by the locals? I have no experience teaching English in Asia, but from my experience teaching in S. America - Chile and Colombia - hardly anyone there would hold you in such low esteem. I guess it all depends on the area. You could move to a mid-sized Chilean town/city, make a decent living (relative to the standard there), and people for the most part would treat you as they treat any college-educated professional. The key is to hold yourself in high esteem; even if the teaching gig itself is laid back and easy, so long as you take it seriously and believe that you're bringing value to the community with your presence, dedication, and character - well then the people will buy into that frame, and you'll have their respect.

My two cents at least. Again, I have no idea what the climate and prejudices are in the East....

Post: #4

Working sucks, no matter where you are. But it's best to surround yourself with the women you like to fuck and it sounds like you like those Asians with the bush from the 70's porno, Ay?

Post: #5

Who advises against it? There's a ton of guys on here who teach abroad. One of Roosh's main messages to men is to get the hell out of the Anglosphere and teaching English is an effective step toward building a new life in a place of one's choosing (doesn't mean you'll be teaching English the rest of your life).

(06-04-2015 10:52 PM)TravellingSoldier Wrote:  If your location of work doesn't necessarily matter I'd do Japan/China/UAE and try and find the job making the most amount of money. More time + still decent enough money to do some side hustling and investing

Anyone who decides to teach English abroad isn't doing it for the money (he's got a master's STEM degree). Assuming you can make enough to keep a comfortable roof over your head, guys do it to be around the women of their choosing. It involves risk and a desire to push one's self outside of one's comfort zone in order to grow as a person. Making money is important but it's not the reason to go into teaching

Post: #6

Quote:If your location of work doesn't necessarily matter I'd do Japan/China/UAE and try and find the job making the most amount of money.

I forgot to mention that I actually have already traveled throughout Asia and studied Chinese in Taiwan for a couple months. While in Taiwan, I became very good friends with a Chinese guy, I stayed at his dorm for a couple weeks afterwards, and we still keep in touch. He said I can visit him anytime. However, he got a new job in Shanghai and will probably be much busier now. Also, I don't find Chinese girls to be anywhere nearly as attractive as Taiwanese girls, but that's less important than being in a place where I fit in

Post: #7

I wouldn't make major life decisions based on Hollywood movies.

Post: #8

If you have a stem degree you can get work at an International School teaching math or science to kids. You might need to get a Masters in education to get a teachers license to be eligible for some of the highest paying jobs but courses are available online and could be done in a year or two. A gig at an International School would pay minimum 2k or so even in low paying markets like Thailand and much more in other countries with higher wages.

My only caution is to make sure you like teaching before you make this decision. Teaching is not a job for everybody. You might want to try to get some type of volunteer or paid teaching gig in your home country before you jump the gun and move overseas just to be sure this is for you. I think the easiest way would to be to volunteer teaching English to immigrants through a church or community center.

Also English teachers are not considered losers by locals in Thailand. I can't speak for other Asian countries.

As far as jobs and lifestyle goes once you have a bit of experience you have a lot of freedom as an English teacher. You can jump jobs or move to different countries pretty easily and getting fired from your job isn't too big of a deal as long as your visa isn't attached to your work.

Post: #9

(06-04-2015 10:40 PM)boss13 Wrote:  I just re-saw the movie American Beauty where Kevin Spacey's character regains his masculinity and self-esteem by lusting after a teenage girl and seeing how his neighbor's son just casually quits his job. The movie is also about how the characters who appear happy, confident and successive are actually quite ugly and miserable. In contrast, the outcast who films dead birds and plastic bags is actually the most secure and confident with himself, and he decides to move out of his psychotic father's home at the end

I had similarly felt sedated with my life in the US, feeling trapped in the rat race and conforming to America's standards for success. I'm just weeks away from finishing my Master's degree in STEM but I'm now considering teaching English abroad, possibly in Taiwan, Japan or Thailand. I know English teachers are considered as losers by the locals, but the point of American Beauty is that its better to be a "loser" but free, rather than live the American dream but be dead in the inside

I've seen some posts by guys here recommending not to teach English abroad. But how is working in the US any better? What do you guys think?

I just met a girl here in Hanoi, Vietnam that got a gig teaching English about 2 months ago. She works part time and makes $20 US per hour. She said its more than enough to pay bills. You can get another gig on the side as well doing private tutoring and/or teaching via skype.

I'll be honest, I wouldn't look at it as a long term solution. The markets get saturated quickly by people with this romanticized view of teaching abroad. The "quit the rat race and live abroad where life is simpler" isn't what it's cracked up to be. I've met expats and they can be just as miserable here in Asia as they can back home, outside of the "rat race."

Also, forget Thailand unless you are teaching at an international school. For that you'll need teaching degrees.

Post: #10

English teaching can be a decent option, but don't think that American Beauty contains some sort of deep insight.

When I was 20 years old and a lazy cynical pot head, I saw that movie and thought it contained some sort of wisdom.

In reality, in my post red pill world view, the problem wasn't/isn't the system and American culture, the problem was that Lester Burnham was a whiny little beta bitch.

I mean seriously, oh woe is me, I have a stable job that affords me the ability to have a house and car and live in a safe neighborhood....but it doesn't make me HAPPPPPYYYYYYYYY, wah wah wah wah.

It would have been a very different movie if Lester had always worked out, had hobbies, took an occasional trip to Colombia, maybe owned a second home there, and either got promoted at his job or started his own business or just lived frugally and invested.

His wife also wouldn't be a neurotic bitch if he was more alpha, she would likely be about 10-15 years younger and Asian or Latina.

My point is, the USA is one of the best places in the world to stack cash and move up the economic ladder and set yourself up with future options.

It is what you make of it. The opportunity is there. If you end up like Lester, that's your problem, not the system.

As an English teacher in some 2nd/3rd world authoritarian or poorly governed country you won't advance much, unless you go to one of the high money countries in Asia or ME, save religiously, and do something smart with the money.

Post: #11

I feel like I've posted this in each of the 40 threads about teaching abroad, but here goes again.

Teaching abroad is very different than teaching English abroad. Choose the former.

Post: #12

I agree with MaleDefined. If you are not sure you will be into teaching you can start teaching English abroad, and you can make a liveable salary in places like Taiwan, Korea, Japan and China.

Teaching at an international school is way better though. If you get teaching credentials and get into lower tier schools who will hire you fresh out of school you will still be able to get a good salary, yearly tickets home, maybe a housing allowance and not to forget 11-14 weeks of vacation a year. Do this for a few years and move up the ladder regarding quality of schools and you are looking at very good salaries coupled with a lot of perks and long vacations every year. If you are somewhere in Asia you would have plenty of money to live very nicely and travel the region.

Why not try ESL to see if it is something you like to do? You can always get real teaching credentials later, even using online programs like this one: http://www.montana.edu/nptt/

I am not a native speaker but I also want to go abroad to teach in about a year or so. Not looking at international schools but at sections that teach my native language at international schools. Some good packages to be found.

Post: #13

If there's a takeaway from that movie is that you should be living life on your own terms.

Don't think there is just one way to do it.

For the most part, don't talk about your goals or objectives, or what you have in mind.

Try a few different things. Take a quick trip somewhere where you will feel culture shock. Go alone.

And don't think living in the US is so doom and gloom. It might not be for you, but you're probably too naive to know for sure just yet.

Lastly, think about why you want to go abroad. If you have an issue back home, whether it be with money, women, weather, culture or whatever... Solve your issues first, or at the very least expend all your efforts trying.

I don't think moving abroad should be a solution to your problems. It should merely be a way to enhance certain areas of your life.

Post: #14

(06-04-2015 10:40 PM)boss13 Wrote:  I had similarly felt sedated with my life in the US, feeling trapped in the rat race and conforming to America's standards for success. I'm just weeks away from finishing my Master's degree in STEM but I'm now considering teaching English abroad, possibly in Taiwan, Japan or Thailand. I know English teachers are considered as losers by the locals, but the point of American Beauty is that its better to be a "loser" but free, rather than live the American dream but be dead in the inside

I've seen some posts by guys here recommending not to teach English abroad. But how is working in the US any better? What do you guys think?

For the teaching part, WSP has a good article on the topic of teaching abroad:

Quote:Become a “Location Independent Businessman”! If your goal is to actually start a business, the worst possible move you can make is this: “pack your bags, move to a third world country, teach English and start a company”. This is the fastest way to realize that you’re talking to someone who doesn’t make a lot of money. The person did not have the necessary skills to earn a high income. How are we so “sure”. Easy… Does this make sense?

http://wallstreetplayboys.com/applicatio...your-life/

I seem to recall Roosh briefly teaching abroad at one point, perhaps he can answer your questions. I think one of his latest posts captures his feelings on the subject:

Quote:I don’t have to look farther than myself to see how damaging freedom can be. Left to my own devices without expert guidance, I picked the incorrect major in college, leading to ten years of wasted time in the field of microbiology. I pursued sexual vice for over a decade that was fun and exciting only for the moment, and which has left me with no more than a handful of meaningful human connections and memories that produce just as much lamentation as happiness. And I strained existing relations with my family and friends to nearly lose myself in third-world countries when I thought that I would “find myself” instead.

http://www.rooshv.com/people-should-not-...al-freedom

My personal advice to you is not to do it. Teaching is well known to be a thankless soul draining job: you can tell because people always say you need to have a "calling" for it.

However, if you are feeling antsy, take a few months off. Travel. Stay at hostels, talk to people there who actually are teachers, scuba divers, etc. Ask deep questions. Check out real estate prices. If you find your poosy paradise - and this part is completely theoretical on my part - try to get a job there with your STEM degree. American diplomas are generally well regarded.

Post: #15

A final word of advice. The idea of reinventing yourself abroad is a convenient feel good myth. In fact the opposite happens when you move abroad. The more foreign the culture, the more hardened in your habits you will become.

If you drink, you will drink more.
If you exercise, you will exercise more.
If you read, you'll read more.
If you party, you'll party more.

Your body will naturally seek out the habits you already have because it takes the mind a long time to rewire itself to a new culture and new settings. Culture shock is real. It comes in phases. It's easy to say that it won't happen to you, but guess what? It happens to everyone. I've been through honeymoon phases abroad, I've also sat in my apartment at night drinking beer wondering why I'm 9000 miles from home. I've come to realize the world is small, but I'm also afraid of how distant my life back home is. I wonder what the definition of home is, what the definition of my life is. I wonder if it's possible to have two lives in two completely different parts of the world, and how much those lives should intersect.

When I moved abroad, it wasn't to run away from anything. I was very happy where I was and had no reason to leave. I didn't hate. I wasn't disgusted, or disappointed with my life. It was not because I was sublimating an experience from earlier in my life. I left willingly, curiously and happily, with a sound foundation of who I was and why I made my decision.

Understand and consider your decision. Understand who you are and what you truly want from your life. Pull off the kid gloves and have an open conversation with yourself, about yourself, unencumbered by the whimsical ideal of a Hollywood movie.

Post: #16

(06-05-2015 10:18 AM)MaleDefined Wrote:  When I moved abroad, it wasn't to run away from anything. I was very happy where I was and had no reason to leave. I didn't hate. I wasn't disgusted, or disappointed with my life. It was not because I was sublimating an experience from earlier in my life. I left willingly, curiously and happily, with a sound foundation of who I was and why I made my decision.

This part is a must read for everyone thinking about living abroad.

Post: #17

I can't think of "American Beauty" without remembering that its breakout heartthrob star Wes Bentley wasted a decade of his life as a heroin junkie after that great success.

Post: #18

(06-05-2015 06:07 AM)bacon Wrote:  If you have a stem degree you can get work at an International School teaching math or science to kids. You might need to get a Masters in education to get a teachers license to be eligible for some of the highest paying jobs but courses are available online and could be done in a year or two. A gig at an International School would pay minimum 2k or so even in low paying markets like Thailand and much more in other countries with higher wages.

My only caution is to make sure you like teaching before you make this decision. Teaching is not a job for everybody. You might want to try to get some type of volunteer or paid teaching gig in your home country before you jump the gun and move overseas just to be sure this is for you.

I don't really want to spend another year in school to get the teaching license. It only pays 2000 per month?

I have 2 years experience teaching as a TA and I have also volunteered as an English teacher to those learning English. I actually liked teaching quite a bit because I was in charge and the students had to follow and listen to me if they wanted a good grade. Then again, those were adults I taught, not teenagers or kids

Any idea what it's like teaching as a math/science teacher at an international school? Do you feel free or have to follow your boss alot?

(06-05-2015 08:28 AM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  English teaching can be a decent option, but don't think that American Beauty contains some sort of deep insight.

When I was 20 years old and a lazy cynical pot head, I saw that movie and thought it contained some sort of wisdom.

In reality, in my post red pill world view, the problem wasn't/isn't the system and American culture, the problem was that Lester Burnham was a whiny little beta bitch.

I mean seriously, oh woe is me, I have a stable job that affords me the ability to have a house and car and live in a safe neighborhood....but it doesn't make me HAPPPPPYYYYYYYYY, wah wah wah wah.

It would have been a very different movie if Lester had always worked out, had hobbies, took an occasional trip to Colombia, maybe owned a second home there, and either got promoted at his job or started his own business or just lived frugally and invested.

I thought the point of the movie is that others who appear successful and beautiful on the outside are actually miserable inside. Not just Lester, but his wife, the real estate King (who said something like "the key to success is to project an image of success at all times"), and the Colonel. And Lester gains more confidence and self-respect once he realizes he doesn't need to maintain the image of success (having a respectable job) in order to be happy.

Similarly, the most confident character, Ricky Fitts, is considered a loser and constantly mocked by the hot cheerleader, because he doesn't care at all about success and appearance

Quote:His wife also wouldn't be a neurotic bitch if he was more alpha, she would likely be about 10-15 years younger and Asian or Latina.

My point is, the USA is one of the best places in the world to stack cash and move up the economic ladder and set yourself up with future options.

It is what you make of it. The opportunity is there. If you end up like Lester, that's your problem, not the system.

As an English teacher in some 2nd/3rd world authoritarian or poorly governed country you won't advance much, unless you go to one of the high money countries in Asia or ME, save religiously, and do something smart with the money.

I know the US is the best place to make money. I've been interviewing for positions paying around 80k, but I have a feeling I'd be much more free and confident if I took a risk instead of taking the safe, high-paying job

(06-05-2015 09:55 AM)Thaitanium Wrote:  Teaching at an international school is way better though. If you get teaching credentials and get into lower tier schools who will hire you fresh out of school you will still be able to get a good salary, yearly tickets home, maybe a housing allowance and not to forget 11-14 weeks of vacation a year. Do this for a few years and move up the ladder regarding quality of schools and you are looking at very good salaries coupled with a lot of perks and long vacations every year. If you are somewhere in Asia you would have plenty of money to live very nicely and travel the region.

I don't really want to spend another year in school to get the teaching license. It only pays 2000 per month?

As I said above, I have experience teaching as a TA and volunteer for English-learning students

Any idea what it's like teaching as a math/science teacher at an international school? Do you feel free or have to follow your boss alot?

(06-05-2015 10:09 AM)storm Wrote:  and this part is completely theoretical on my part - try to get a job there with your STEM degree. American diplomas are generally well regarded.

From what I've heard, its nearly impossible for a fresh grad to get a job abroad since the companies can just hire locals for lesser salaries and don't have to deal with visa issues. Also, some Korean, Chinese, and Japanese friends have told me that their home countries aren't really impressed with grads from American universities, unless they are ivy-league schools

Post: #19

(06-05-2015 09:55 AM)Thaitanium Wrote:  Teaching at an international school is way better though. If you get teaching credentials and get into lower tier schools who will hire you fresh out of school you will still be able to get a good salary, yearly tickets home, maybe a housing allowance and not to forget 11-14 weeks of vacation a year. Do this for a few years and move up the ladder regarding quality of schools and you are looking at very good salaries coupled with a lot of perks and long vacations every year. If you are somewhere in Asia you would have plenty of money to live very nicely and travel the region.

I don't really want to spend another year in school to get the teaching license. It only pays 2000 per month?

As I said above, I have experience teaching as a TA and volunteer for English-learning students

Any idea what it's like teaching as a math/science teacher at an international school? Do you feel free or have to follow your boss alot?




Well, you dont have to do it at a specific location. You can do it online. At least you know you might like teaching, but experience as a TA or volunteering does not count for much when you apply for international schools.

I have some friends who work in countries like Korea, are able to save 10.000 Us a year and still travel a lot. And that is only teaching ESL.

Working in international schools it all depends on the school itself. I know some people just taking it easy, but some of the top tier schools make you work very hard. But those packages make it worth it too.

I applied for a job at a school in Jakarta last April. Ended up 2nd. The package was a western tax free salary, pensions paid for, yearly ticket back to my country, housing allowance, education allowance and if I would have kids also a tution allowance.

It really is a lot better then 2000 a month. Many schools will pay 2000-4000 dollars on salary and then you get all the extra perks as well. Basicly means you can save 75% of your salary, and when you have 11-14 weeks free a year, that's a lot of time to have fun or do something else.

Post: #20

As people already said, teach science or math abroad. That can be a great option.

Post: #21

If you found this movie inspirational like that go with with it.
It's YOUR life.
One man's dream can be another man's nightmare.
English teaching can be a good option to get started somewhere if you cannot do your plan 'a' (like teaching math or science) and then delve into other areas when you're on the ground.
As a career, the ESL route has many downsides.

Post: #22

I'm sensing a thinly veiled hostility towards guys that take up teaching as a means of moving abroad. What's with the down talk?

Becoming an ESL instructor is not easy, and the lifestyle that goes along with it certainly doesn't set you up with a nice crib to bring girls back to. The only thing it guarantees is an escape from your country.

I believe there's two types of RVF'ers:
Flag Collector's/Notch Hunters and dudes looking to meet an ideal girl for an LTR.
A lot of the time it's guys who were former notch hunters and have transitioned toward being more desiring of an LTR.

Living in the USA means that if you want female presence in you life it's probably only going to come in the form of notches. I believe that notches are the only form of female involvement any man here can expect to get. LTR's are neither satisfying nor realistic with American women. The conflict I am sensing is the mentalities of Notch Hunters as opposed to LTR dudes.

I think it comes down to what kind of sex is preferred. Some guys live to fuck frivolously while others get off on having emotions involved. If you're an LTR guy then your best option for finding that girl to have the emotional sex with is to move abroad. If you're a notch guy then stay in the Anglosphere where there's an unending stream of pussy to be pumped and dumped. Neither should judge the other for his preference

Post: #23

So much good advice in this thread, it should be pinned. You have a Stem masters degree, the sky is the limit bro. Good luck.

Truer words have never been spoken.

Where were these guys in the previous TEFL threads?
Is the fact that this question was able to rally all the connoisseurs together?

Post: #24

(06-05-2015 04:59 PM)NomadofEU Wrote:  Living in the USA means that if you want female presence in you life it's probably only going to come in the form of notches. I believe that notches are the only form of female involvement any man here can expect to get. LTR's are neither satisfying nor realistic with American women. The conflict I am sensing is the mentalities of Notch Hunters as opposed to LTR dudes.

I think it comes down to what kind of sex is preferred. Some guys live to fuck frivolously while others get off on having emotions involved. If you're an LTR guy then your best option for finding that girl to have the emotional sex with is to move abroad. If you're a notch guy then stay in the Anglosphere where there's an unending stream of pussy to be pumped and dumped.

Sorry, but that's just not accurate. There are 320 Million people in the United States, many from other countries, probably a 100 Million speak a language besides English, and there are more than 300 cities with a population of 100,000 or greater.

You can get what you want, where you want.

So many options and cultures and ethnicities in the United States.

If you want notches, you can get notches. If you want an LTR, you can get an LTR.

If you can't get what you want in the United States, you should probably look in the mirror to find the source of your difficulties instead of pointing the finger at some intangible failing of the "anglosphere."

When you are red pill and have made a good effort at self improvement, your results will be good whatever your goal and location is. Sure, peaks and troughs happen, but you will not be given to hyperbole, or seek salvation in some imaginary shangri la just over the horizon. Where you are is where life happens.

Post: #25

(06-05-2015 10:18 AM)MaleDefined Wrote:  A final word of advice. The idea of reinventing yourself abroad is a convenient feel good myth. In fact the opposite happens when you move abroad. The more foreign the culture, the more hardened in your habits you will become.

If you drink, you will drink more.
If you exercise, you will exercise more.
If you read, you'll read more.
If you party, you'll party more.

Your body will naturally seek out the habits you already have because it takes the mind a long time to rewire itself to a new culture and new settings. Culture shock is real. It comes in phases. It's easy to say that it won't happen to you, but guess what? It happens to everyone. I've been through honeymoon phases abroad, I've also sat in my apartment at night drinking beer wondering why I'm 9000 miles from home. I've come to realize the world is small, but I'm also afraid of how distant my life back home is. I wonder what the definition of home is, what the definition of my life is. I wonder if it's possible to have two lives in two completely different parts of the world, and how much those lives should intersect.

When I moved abroad, it wasn't to run away from anything. I was very happy where I was and had no reason to leave. I didn't hate. I wasn't disgusted, or disappointed with my life. It was not because I was sublimating an experience from earlier in my life. I left willingly, curiously and happily, with a sound foundation of who I was and why I made my decision.

Understand and consider your decision. Understand who you are and what you truly want from your life. Pull off the kid gloves and have an open conversation with yourself, about yourself, unencumbered by the whimsical ideal of a Hollywood movie.

Good post. But you're generalizing a bit on the expat experience.

Not all of us are as entrenched into one way of life, or thinking.

I don't have a "home" as you put it. My family is scattered across 4 continents, I hold 3 different passports, and speak 3 different languages natively.

I've had to reinvent myself several times...out of sheer necessity. For me, the grass IS definitely greener abroad. I feel most "at home" when hanging out with an expat crowd.

The locals in every country I've lived in (the U.S especially) are too parochial for me to relate too. Anybody who's had an international upbringing can likely understand what I'm saying.

But sure, if you lived your whole life in one town...and suddenly uproot yourself...I could see why living abroad would be a mixed bag for you.