Post: #76

(06-03-2015 12:27 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  The "frontline" designation doesn't matter. Obviously there's going to be some initial resistance from within those units but it's going to be quickly dealt with by threatening those officers with career-ending evaluations. The particularly stubborn ones will be reassigned and replaced with yes-men.


Also: some of you all who read the knowledge section will know where I'm headed with this next question. The elite rarely pushes any policy into action because they themselves believe in PC...they don't and they know better. Instead I'd suggest that attempting to put women into "elite" combat units "might" be a trial run for another agenda that's part of the long term planning. It also "might" have something in common with the worldwide push that's been putting women into high political offices.


And "might" may not mean "might", and I might be saying MUCH less than I know.

The "counter-terrorism" and "hostage situation" designations do matter. If its one thing I know about Americans, they wouldn't want their terrorist fighters devalued in any way.

Post: #77

I'm not currently in a combat arms MOS, but it's pretty simple to tell that the infantry/other combat arms MOSs just simply don't need women in their mix. That means building female barracks/latrines etc. for them on posts costing more of the company's funds, and adding a weird element to the platoon (i.e no more dick jokes, more "Sexual Harrasment" training etc.) Women are a pain in the ass enough to deal with as a pog, giving them the glorification to say "OMG IM AN INFANTRY-LADY" is just unsat.

The low standards at Airborne school alone over the past couple decades is a clear indicator alone of what's in store.

Post: #78

It matters to you and I, but it doesn't matter to the people who run the Army. They're more concerned with PC( or at least, that's how it's sold to the military leadership).


And what you know about "Americans" is also irrelevant. You should also know that the people who push PC policies on organizations are bat-shit crazy and aren't about to let facts get in the way of ideology.....consequences be damned.

Post: #79

Actually ya know what? ROK's already addressed how it worked out in the Navy:

http://www.returnofkings.com/39218/the-d...he-us-navy


Short version: female pilot was babied through training because nobody would DARE flunk the first female pilot, and lives were lost as a result. Rather than admit fault the Navy deliberately bungled the investigation to prevent anyone concluding that their sacred cow had screwed up.

Post: #80

Oh, found something else for everyone who thinks that the Army won't lower standards for "elite" units:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2015/matthew...in-combat/

Quote:Two years ago the current Joint Chiefs Chairman General Martin Dempsey called for a “critical mass” or “significant cohort” of women to be placed in combat. Standards in excess of what female soldiers can achieve should be questioned, he said. The so-called “Dempsey Rule” holds that if something is too difficult for women, the standards will eventually have to be ratcheted down to “equal but lower” levels.

Emphasis added.

Post: #81

You mention elite units yet the article fails to mention the SEALs, Delta Force, or even the Rangers which was the original topic.

If you are talking about anything besides the following units, understand that you are not talking about the same units I am, and do not understand the points that I have made throughout the thread:

SEALs
Green Berets
Delta Force
Rangers

You guys keep dropping "the marines" or "the navy" or "fighter pilots". First of all, the marines and navy are divisions of the military, and there have been women in them for a long while. Secondly, navy units seldom see frontline combat. Thirdly, when's the last time you heard of a dogfight; these fighter pilots are flying extremely fast flying planes, but there are plenty of female pilots and these planes are getting so good that they can pretty much fly themselves.

There is no intention of lowering standards for the elite that I am talking about, every single interview I have seen, ever article I have read have ex and current men in those units saying either "yeah, no, women shouldn't be allowed in" or "Hell yeah, bring the women in, let them meet the current standards and then they can be SEALs (for example)."

There are women that have served that believe that women shouldn't be in infantry: https://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/2014...s-infantry

Understand that I have been, this whole time, talking only about the best of the best, and if they lowered their standards, they would, by definition, be not the best of the best. There's already between an 80-90% drop out rate for these units. This is where natural selection on steroids occurs.

Post: #82

Yes, and those units, pilots and secret service, are elite, just not in the same way as the ones you mentioned. And they have experienced debacles from including substandard women in their ranks.

Your argument is "the military won't do it because it hasn't done it." You draw this big distinction between the groups it has done it with and those that it hasn't, but this distinction won't stand up to the feminist gale of change. The Dempsey rule is the perfect example. It's a matter of when, not if. Radical ideologies do not permit permanent exemption from their dictates.

The military has already shown it doesn't care that including substandard women compromises effectiveness. Unlike you, the military mandarins will hold nothing sacred.

Post: #83

(06-04-2015 10:07 AM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:  You mention elite units yet the article fails to mention the SEALs, Delta Force, or even the Rangers which was the original topic.

First off: keep in mind that the military has a rigid heirarchy. You either do what your chain of command wants or you're told to get the fuck out.

Second:I don't need to mention individual units. Look at the name and position of the person I quoted.

Notice something? Notice the title?


Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

In plain english that means EVERY branch of the military, and subsequently every single one of those units that you've mentioned including Rangers, SEAL, SF, and Pilots, all fall under his jurisdiction. That's why it's important. His belief that standards "in excess of what females can achieve" shouldn't exist impacts every branch, every service and every unit.



It's also cute how you think they give a shit that people in those branches don't want women in them without lowered standards. Funny enough I seem to recall filling out those exact same surveys while I was in.

Wanna know what the results were? the men didn't want any women who couldn't meet existing standards in.

Wanna know what actually happened? They told us to go fuck ourselves and lowered the standards for women.

Post: #84

That there's no major threat along the lines of the Third Reich, Imperial Japan and the USSR or that we don't face conflicts with Korean or Vietnam war level casualties makes it all the more easier for them to dumb down standards and integrate women.

That women are allowed in the "non-elite" Navy is pretty disgraceful too. I pity the poor sap sailor that ends up injured after his vessel is hit by an anti-ship missile and has to be carried up a ladder by one of his "empowered" and "equal" female counterparts.

Post: #85

I am a bit astounded how ISIS is kicking some major and serious ass...

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/06/11/russ...asia-isis/

I share this link to illustrate that ISIS is just getting started - they are expanding across Pan Arab North Africa, Sub Saharan Africa, the Middle East and all the way to the former FSU RU-Stans...

You send women in combat units against these guys who believe they are enforcing the will of Allah and they will all be beheaded after having their vaginas turned into rag head cum dumpsters.

Very similar to the drugs "cartels" south of the USA borders - the Obamunists are taking lame duck AF1 victory laps to tee up future OUI (Obama Universal Initiative) donations and trying to give China TPP in secret while the Cartels and ISIS grow stronger and stronger.

If will be the special forces and asymmetrical warfare that will be used to try and contain ISIS - that horse left the barn long ago... so putting women in these units just weakens the SF units as they are no where near qualified to be special operators...

We just had 3 ISIS radicalized recruits in metro Boston think it was a good idea to try and find police and cut their heads off. One ISIS scumbag is now dead and the other two will be cooling their jets in the big house for a long time.

Can you spell r-e-n-d-i-t-i-o-n?

Post: #86

Here's what Dempsey actually said:

"Gen. Dempsey laid down the law this way: “If we do decide that a particular standard is so high that a woman couldn’t make it, the burden is now on the service to come back and explain to the secretary, why is it that high? Does it really have to be that high?”

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015...z3cy9l32Wb
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter"

That doesn't sound as bad - hey, just apply for a waiver when women aren't passing muster.

But anyone with experience of an institution as authoritarian and hierarchical as the military knows that reality will be as I and Easy C described it: there will be extreme pressure to punish anyone who tries to maintain standards that effectively bar women entry. In an organization like the military, even asking for permission for an exception is viewed with extreme prejudice, and a cause for hamstringing your career. Especially if you're going to the *HEAD* of your organization, the secretary of defense. The military brass just does what the administration wants, mindlessly so. That's where their political future is, and they've been sucking up for decades already to get there. They aren't going to have a change of heart over loosening standards to allow women in.

In an environment like the military, when you require someone to justify why they are deviating from guidelines, that's just another way of saying "you better fucking do what I say, or I will can your ass, but I'm going to pretend to be fair and just when anyone else asks."